Why I'm voting democrat :)

[92bDad]

UD,

Glad to know that you know so much about what I know...please enlighten me oh all knowing one.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Um, doesn't looking at "polls" make you kinda gay too?

(had to force a middle school joke into this thread...)

Rep needs to be fixed NOW!

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

UD,

Glad to know that you know so much about what I know...please enlighten me oh all knowing one.

umm you just spelled out your opinion to him. of course he knows what you think, you just said it lol

you got noodles for brains or what

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

umm you just spelled out your opinion to him. of course he knows what you think, you just said it lol

you got noodles for brains or what

Seriously - I'd pay DJ real money (not vCash) to get the rep working again...

[fluid.forty.one]

you can just PM me and 92bDingDong an IOU or something broceraptor

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

you can just PM me and 92bDingDong an IOU or something broceraptor

IOU a WTF???



Your search - broceraptor - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

* Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
* Try different keywords.
* Try more general keywords.
* Put down the crack pipe.

[fluid.forty.one]

IOU us rep was the joke

broceraptor means my home diggity dog

[fluid.forty.one]

lol I just laughed out loud realizing you actually googled broceraptor

[92bDad]

Now you two got me laughing...nice one.

Heck, I might have given you a rep...had it been working :-)

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Backpedaling? Shove that up your ass. Being uneducated is definitely a key to voting Republican. I won't ever pedal back from that.

where do you get your data?

(bumping just because I haven't seen chumdawg around, but would like an answer when he gets back)

[chumdawg]

The data comes from elections, and how lesser educated vote compared to how more educated people vote. The more educated you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Democrat. The less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Republican.

I am talking about historical patterns. It is, of course, possible that this could change at any time. Though I certainly don't expect it to in this particular election.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The data comes from elections, and how lesser educated vote compared to how more educated people vote. The more educated you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Democrat. The less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Republican.

I am talking about historical patterns. It is, of course, possible that this could change at any time. Though I certainly don't expect it to in this particular election.

On what data are you basing these conclusions?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

On what data are you basing these conclusions?

Polling data.

[Flacolaco]

Aren't wealthy people more likely to vote Republican?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Aren't wealthy people more likely to vote Republican?

There's a lot more uneducated people in America than wealthy people (by our standards, anyway...)



EDIT: not that I'm jumping into the debate here - I personally don't know who votes for who in this country (but I guess that's because I've never been concerned with how people other than myself vote...)

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by Underdog

There's a lot more uneducated people in America than wealthy people (by our standards, anyway...)

Did I say wealthy? I meant to say educated. Boy I don't know how I could get those two confused.

Anyway, Obama is going to win, because as chum pointed out, and underdog reiterated here, there are many more educated/wealthy people in this country than there are....oh wait....

Chums point about wealthy..sorry, educated people voting for democrats is really confusing me now.

[chumdawg]

You can find a lot of stuff like this:

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~sobek/election_education.html

Of course, it is only one factor.

[chumdawg]

Here's the graphical version:

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~sobek/elect...ion_graph.html

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Did I say wealthy? I meant to say educated. Boy I don't know how I could get those two confused.

Anyway, Obama is going to win, because as chum pointed out, and underdog reiterated here, there are many more educated/wealthy people in this country than there are....oh wait....

Chums point about wealthy..sorry, educated people voting for democrats is really confusing me now.

Don't pretend that wealth and education are mutually exclusive - I know more than a few people barely smart enough to breath who make six figures a year...

Plus, genius Albert Einstein didn't get paid jack-squat when he came to America until his work catapulted him to celebrity status (and even then, he had little love for money - he thought it only complicated life...)

[Flacolaco]

Well, I don't know that we were talking about smarts, just college degrees. I was thinking that most (51% if you like) "wealthy" people probably have college degrees.

But we could take a slant on chums theory that educated people vote democrat, and the aforementioned theory by UD that some rich people are dumb (agreed) and say that people with college degrees, who are also poor (I think these are called graduate students, or philosophy majors) are voting democrat. And that I could definitely agree with.

[Mavdog]

the polls that have looked at voter's preferences based on education have been interesting to look at. last spring the surprising stats were that those with a college and post graduate degree were overwhelmingly choosing obama, and those with no college were supporting clinton.

now ion the matchup between obama and mccain it is pretty much difficult to break out any pattern except that obama is ahead in all categories, but his lead is greater the more educated the voter is.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108043/Ca...Education.aspx

I'm not sure there is a clear difference of voters party affiliation based on education as much as there is one based on income. from what I recall seeing in the past the greater one's income the more likely that voter is a republican.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

I'm not sure there is a clear difference of voters party affiliation based on education as much as there is one based on income. from what I recall seeing in the past the greater one's income the more likely that voter is a republican.

Good point - obviously it doesn't take a college degree to figure out that you should vote for the guy who puts the most money in your pocket...

[Usually Lurkin]

"by state" is a pretty gross measure, chumdawg. If you have a state with 30% college degrees, and all those people vote Republican, and all the rest vote Democrat, then the state is a blue dot on your graph.

The gallup poll gets more at the question of educational level and voting.
In that 2008 poll linked by Mavdog, all categories (from less than HS to post-graduate) are more for Obama than for McCain, but within those numbers is something that shows up more in the extreme in all the polling through 2004 - which is that from less than high school through college degree, higher education is related to more people voting republican. It's not till post-graduate that things switch.

Here's the polling data from 2004
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html
...............................BUSH .................KERRY.... NADER
TOTAL ........................2004 ......2000 .....2004 ...2004
No High School (4%) ......49% .....+10...... 50% .....0%
H.S. Graduate (22%) .....52% ......+3 ........47% ......0%
Some College (32%) .....54%......+3..........46%........0%
College Graduate (26%) 52%......+1..........46%........1%
Postgrad Study (16%).....44%.....+0........55%........1%


Here's a couple that show the historical trend is similar
from 1972 - 2000
http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=539

from 1997 - 2004 (it got more extreme post 9/11)
http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=750


and another from 2008 that reflects the gallup poll, but carves up big groups (conflating college degree with postgraduate degree) and shows
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/Polls.a...09894450977173
highschool is Obama +9
some college is Mcain +1
and colleg+ is Obama +3


As I've been looking around, it becomes more and more obvious that the polling data - the historical polling data -are pretty much opposite what you are claiming. Historically - a larger percentage of people without highschool diplomas vote Democrat, and those with college degrees vote Republican.

Are you going to stick to your guns and not vote for the party associated with the uneducated? Or are you going to abandon your bigotry?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Are you going to stick to your guns and not vote for the party associated with the uneducated? Or are you going to abandon your bigotry?

No, I'm not going to abandon my bigotry in this case, nor am I embarrassed by it. I'm comfortable being bigoted in this case.

I believe, somewhere down deep, that the more educated you get the more liberal you get. I believe that you get more understanding of other points of view. I believe that you learn how to understand opposing viewpoints. I believe that you get further and further away from seeing things through your narrow lens.

I do have a disdain for those who have a narrow point of view. I do have a disdain for those who stake a sanctimonious claim on "right." I have a disdain for them, and I view them as uneducated. I'm bigoted in that way. No sense denying it.

I cling to an optimistic point of view, one that would advance our society, not pit it against each other. You would revile me for that. I accept your criticism, and hope that you don't win out in the end.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

No, I'm not going to abandon my bigotry in this case, nor am I embarrassed by it.

you should be. Your reasoning right in this post is distorted because of it. You are viewing the world through a lens too narrow to include the evidence that you claimed supported your position. You are trying to change your definition of "uneducated" from non-degreed and measurable by polling to "narrow" and measurable by your own intuition - just to keep the position that you decided upon a priori.

I do have a disdain for those who have a narrow point of view. I do have a disdain for those who stake a sanctimonious claim on "right."

you are doing all of this.

[chumdawg]

Well, UL, somebody has to end up being right. I'm pretty sure I'm on the good side of things.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Well, UL, somebody has to end up being right. I'm pretty sure I'm on the good side of things.

-- he said, sanctimoniously, waving off thoughts beyond the conclusion he had previously chosen. His liberal educators rejoiced.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

-- he said, sanctimoniously, waving off thoughts beyond the conclusion he had previously chosen. His liberal educators rejoiced.

I have not seen data to support that the rich or educated mainly support Republicans, but I have seen data to support education by states which generally support just the opposite.
I think it is a Converse error to assume if you are rich and educated you vote Republican.

According to the United States Census Bureau's most recent data (2003)

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/depart...educatedstates

Most educated:

Massachusetts
Colorado
Connecticut
Maryland
Virginia
New Jersey
Vermont
Minnesota
New Hampshire
Washington

Less educated:

Oklahoma
Tennessee
Louisiana
Alabama
Indiana
Nevada
Arkansas
Mississippi
Kentucky
West Virginia

Electoral maps:

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/pr...tates/map.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ama_vs_mccain/

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I have not seen data to support that the rich or educated mainly support Republicans, but I have seen data to support education by states which generally support just the opposite.
I think it is a Converse error to assume if you are rich and educated you vote Republican.

Here's some that speak to education (so far, chummy cares only about not being in the group with uneducated), along with why looking at it state by state is a bad idea
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=103

[92bDad]

These are some pretty funny debates taking place.

How does one measure 'Educated'?

After all, just because someone has a piece of paper stating that they completed the requirements of a specific school to obtain a degree only means that they went through that schools idea of learning.

It's funny how both sides argue this thought.

Voters from both sides will site all types of sources to support their point of view.

At the end of the day you have those who are huge Democrat supporters who have an education and have been influenced into this liberal ideology.

Meanwhile you have those who are huge Republican supporters who have an aducation and have been influenced into a more conservative ideology.

The difference can have some symptoms of the amount or perhaps the type of school development that one has obtained, but I would signify that the key development to one political view is the training at home. Is there a victim mentality or is their one of personal responsibility being taught by those raising the individuals in their youth?

In some cases this attitudes at home are very well the attitudes within a community.

We tend to conform to what is around us.

Take a Conservative and put them in a liberal community for 10-20 years and I would be willing to acknowledge that this individual would have some altered views after that time, falling into a more victim mentality.

Take a Liberal and put them in a conservative community for 10-20 years and I would be willing to acknowledge that this individual would have some altered actions as they would actually take persoan responsibility for themselves and thus begin to live a conservative lifestyle.

The experiement would not work if you allowed for more than 1 to live in this other community...people tend to get defensive and cling to any other like minded individual.

Again, I was liberal when I was 17...I dropped out of school and joined the military.

I returned to school, started seeking and ultimately found salvation, attending church in different communities thanks to my military moves.

Once I settled into the Dallas area, I strengthened my personal commitment to God and as I did, I also developed my education one class at a time and completed my degree.

As a result over time I have changed to believe in a conservative political view.

As I stopped playing the victim mentality and taking ownership of my life, I have found the means to better myself in all areas including financially.

I'm not stating that my way is the only way...but I am basing my views on life experience and the knowledge of knowing that when I was young and naive, I voted Democrat and had very liberal views. Yet now, with more life experience and a higher level of education, I find that I have been enlightened and changed my views to a more conservative view. Thus voting Republican.

Perhaps some of you debating can relate your own personal story???

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Here's some that speak to education (so far, chummy cares only about not being in the group with uneducated), along with why looking at it state by state is a bad idea
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpo...&postcount=103

I think that polling by state is the best idea. Reason being is that Top level executive positions are going to be decided by state votes. This president will be decided by state votes as well. Winner takes all in presidential elections, so I consider the state data very important to this arguement about the Presidential race voting.

Most data shows that the higher post education degree you have the more money you will make over a lifetime. Right? Yes!!!! So, even your polls show that Post-college degree people overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I believe, somewhere down deep, that the more educated you get the more liberal you get.

That's an illogical conclusion. It's undoubtedly true, however, that the more education you receive, the more you are exposed to liberal ideology.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

-- he said, sanctimoniously, waving off thoughts beyond the conclusion he had previously chosen. His liberal educators rejoiced.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Usually Lurkin again.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I think that polling by state is the best idea. Reason being is that Top level executive positions are going to be decided by state votes. This president will be decided by state votes as well. Winner takes all in presidential elections, so I consider the state data very important to this arguement about the Presidential race voting.

but the state doesn't vote, and the state isn't educated. Individuals within the state vote, and individuals within the state get educated. If you lump all the individuals together, then you have no idea how voting and education vary together at the level where either is actually implemented. As I said before, if you have a state with 30% college graduation (relatively high), and everyone with a college graduation votes republican, and everyone else votes democrat, then a state level analysis leads to a conclusion that is exactly opposite the truth.

Most data shows that the higher post education degree you have the more money you will make over a lifetime. Right? Yes!!!! So, even your polls show that Post-college degree people overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

This makes no sense to me.

[mcsluggo]

studies that I have seen (and i am sorry, I have no citations or links) have shown that when you control for other factors [income, race, age] higher education implies more democrat voting. The problem is that all of those variables comingle and directions of causation is complicated, leading to very difficult statistical estimation. (meaning that the results are sometime statistically debatable)

* education is obviously correlated with age>>> but the young (and not yet well educated) are strongly democratic

* income correlates with education >>> with complicated undertones

* non-whites are less educated and less wealthy than whites (this is obviously average values... please no attacks on generalizations or the like) but non-wites are more likely to vote democrat


In general richer areas (cities and inner suburbs) tend to be better educated (and more wealthy) and tend to vote democrat. within those areas the education (and income) distribution versus political affiliation is probably not that clear.

On the other hand, rural areas and smaller towns/cities are less well educated (and less wealthy) and tend to trend republican. furthermore, in those areas I think the wealthier/better-educated trend republican as well.

ANOTHER factor is that the very poor tend to vote democrat (and tend to not be well educated)



soooo, all in all you have a mixed soup.... and HAVE to control for many other variables to examine the issue. And as I said, I have seen studies where authors attempted to do so and found some level of positive coefficient on an education variable regressed against party affiliation (higher ed correlates with dem). But in the end the only reliable study is the simple fact that people that agree with ME are both well educated and intelligent, and those that disagree with ME are ignorant bafoons.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

soooo, all in all you have a mixed soup.... and HAVE to control for many other variables to examine the issue. And as I said, I have seen studies where authors attempted to do so and found some level of positive coefficient on an education variable regressed against party affiliation (higher ed correlates with dem). But in the end the only reliable study is the simple fact that people that agree with ME are both well educated and intelligent, and those that disagree with ME are ignorant bafoons.

no, you don't have to control for everything else. At least not as the problem has been laid out in this thread. As a matter of fact, you shouldn't. Here, there was a hypothesis that Republicans target the uneducated, and that that targeting is evidenced by education and voting polling. If the hypothesis was that Republicans target the uneducated after they control for income and age and gender and ethnicity and race and hair length and whatever else you want to control in order to get your answer (but that would be unreasonable even as a post-hoc, descriptive hypothesis. How could they possibly control for all that, then practically target the remainder?) - then you'd have a point. But when the original includes terms like "redneck" and "white voting blocks" all those variables are being considered causally conflated already, in the hypothesis. The primary variable, education, is the variable to test, and without controlling for all the others. To partial out all those other variables - which are assumed to be causally related - would give you a problem similar to the examination of data at the state level. Only, its that when you drill down to far, you are examining variation at a level to small to address your initial question, rather than to large for your initial question.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

These are some pretty funny debates taking place.

How does one measure 'Educated'?

After all, just because someone has a piece of paper stating that they completed the requirements of a specific school to obtain a degree only means that they went through that schools idea of learning.

It's funny how both sides argue this thought.

Voters from both sides will site all types of sources to support their point of view.

At the end of the day you have those who are huge Democrat supporters who have an education and have been influenced into this liberal ideology.

Meanwhile you have those who are huge Republican supporters who have an aducation and have been influenced into a more conservative ideology.

The difference can have some symptoms of the amount or perhaps the type of school development that one has obtained, but I would signify that the key development to one political view is the training at home. Is there a victim mentality or is their one of personal responsibility being taught by those raising the individuals in their youth?

In some cases this attitudes at home are very well the attitudes within a community.

We tend to conform to what is around us.

Take a Conservative and put them in a liberal community for 10-20 years and I would be willing to acknowledge that this individual would have some altered views after that time, falling into a more victim mentality.

Take a Liberal and put them in a conservative community for 10-20 years and I would be willing to acknowledge that this individual would have some altered actions as they would actually take persoan responsibility for themselves and thus begin to live a conservative lifestyle.

The experiement would not work if you allowed for more than 1 to live in this other community...people tend to get defensive and cling to any other like minded individual.

Again, I was liberal when I was 17...I dropped out of school and joined the military.

I returned to school, started seeking and ultimately found salvation, attending church in different communities thanks to my military moves.

Once I settled into the Dallas area, I strengthened my personal commitment to God and as I did, I also developed my education one class at a time and completed my degree.

As a result over time I have changed to believe in a conservative political view.

As I stopped playing the victim mentality and taking ownership of my life, I have found the means to better myself in all areas including financially.

I'm not stating that my way is the only way...but I am basing my views on life experience and the knowledge of knowing that when I was young and naive, I voted Democrat and had very liberal views. Yet now, with more life experience and a higher level of education, I find that I have been enlightened and changed my views to a more conservative view. Thus voting Republican.

Perhaps some of you debating can relate your own personal story???

you spent a lot of time making a post that probably no one will read after they realize you wrote it

[DirkFTW]

We are right. All who disagree need more education.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

you spent a lot of time making a post that probably no one will read after they realize you wrote it

Thanks for reading and responding ... who are you by the way

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm voting Democrat because Republicans just flat out come across as evil to me. I have seen it from pundits, my neighbors, etc. etc. etc. They talk of liberals and Obama with complete bs and as if they are vampires that are going to go suck peoples' blood. It's really pathetic to be frank.

Obama may bs some things, but he doesn't vomit venemous attacks that are sickening.