Kwame Brown

[DubOverdose]

He will not play for the Wizards next season. He will either be involved in a S&T or just be signed by a different team. Who would you be willing to give up to get him, and how much money do you think he will get. I would like to see Kwame under a better managed team, where he doesn't have to be the first, second, third, or fourth best player on the team. Avery seems like he could be a positive influence on Kwame. If you don't want the Mavs to take a chance with him, where do you think he goes?

[dalmations202]

I think he probably would fit best with either LA team. He wouldn't have to be the "man" there in either case, but could get some PT and development.

IMO, I don't think he is a fit in Dallas.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Not that this will happen, but I think it would be very interesting: Kwame to Detroit for Darko. Kwame would be very nice off the bench for Detroit, and would probably fit into their style. Darko could start in Washingon, or they could continue starting Heywood. Either way, Darko would actually get to play, and develop alongside Arenas, Hughes, and Jamison. He could develop into a franchise player, or he could just be a good player. Either way, I'd love to see that move.

[EricaLubarsky]

Dallas is good at taking passionate, misunderstood players and fitting them into their system. They are not good at making lazy, immature players into consummate professionals.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Dallas is good at taking passionate, misunderstood players and fitting them into their system. They are not good at making lazy, immature players into consummate professionals.

I wouldn't say Dallas is good at that; I think Nellie is good at that. Without Nellie, I don't know how good we would be at that. However, I still wouldn't mind trying.

[fin4life]

The talent is definetly there. So is the potential. But after 3 years in the league it is time for that potential and talent to turn into substance. If we can get him cheap, I would consider it. I am just not willing to make a longterm commitment to an extreme underachiever like him.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

I wouldn't say Dallas is good at that; I think Nellie is good at that. Without Nellie, I don't know how good we would be at that. However, I still wouldn't mind trying.

what makes you think that it was only Nelson?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

what makes you think that it was only Nelson?

Because Nellie had been doing that for years before he came to Dallas. However, I will say that I don't believe there's any owner in all of pro sports that an athlete would rather play for than Mark Cuban.

[poohrichardson]

Eh, Kwame would be buried on our bench.. he's too small to play center and Dirk has proven over and over that he's capable of playing 38+ a game.. Kwame probably wouldn't be worth the money he's going to get..

[bo319]

If the kid actually "GETS" it then yes he would be a valuable addition. KVH gives you a kind of Dirk lite but Kwame would be a shock to the system when he came in for Dirk and there would be alot of teams he and Dirk would play together against for some decent stretches. He is only 23 and would be a rookie "next" season had he gone to college and stayed 4 years. He is worth a gamble but I wouldn't committ the full mid-level for multiple years to him. I think this is probably moot since someone will offer more than we can...I'm thinking Atlanta may be a fit for him.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: poohrichardson
Eh, Kwame would be buried on our bench.. he's too small to play center and Dirk has proven over and over that he's capable of playing 38+ a game.. Kwame probably wouldn't be worth the money he's going to get..

Kwame is 7 foot. That's big enough to play center. The more I think about it, the more I want to get him. Watching game 1 against Phoenix, it's painfully obvious that we need a big, fast, atheletic 4-5 that can keep up with Amare. Kwame, while not known for defensive prowess, is the right combination of size and speed to do so. I think the thing that we need to most as a team is an athletic post-player who can play 4 or 5, and Kwame fits the role almost perfectly. It's just a matter of what his price will be. I'd trade KVH straight up for him. We'd get our big man, and they'd get KVH and his gigantic, expiring contract. We'd miss KVH's shooting, but Kwame would be an acceptable backup for Dirk/Damp. And we'd still have Bradley. We might also have to throw Henderson, or Daniels in the deal, but I wouldn't have a problem with that. I just don't know which teams will be willing to give up what for him. He's very young, and very talented; he's just a punk kid that needs to grow up a little. If the price is right, I say take him. Best case senario; he'll eventually develop into the star that Michael Jordan thought he would. Worst case sencario; he'd still be a servicable backup that would be useful to us.

[bo319]

I'm starting to see this as a possibility as well. While we keep saying that Damp against Amare is a bad matchup a guy with the size/speed ratio of Kwame would be a good alternative for small ball since he isn't exactly small at 6'11 240.
We also seem to have a good raport with the Wiz since we have done 2 big trades in the last few years with them which have helped both teams. I don't think we could trade KVH and Daniels for Kwame since that would be over $19 mill in salary and we would have to take back too much of their team. Daniels straight up would work or maybe Quis and Bradley for Kwame and Michael Ruffin. Kwame is a restricted FA so he would have to be a sign and trade.
It has become pretty obvious that we are missing that 1 athletic 4/5 who you have to guard in the post...and since Amare will only get better(yikes..is that posible?) and it seems like Phoenix will continue to play him at the 5 then we need to find a matchup for him. DJ M'Benga may...I say may...one day be able to guard him as well as anyone but I doubt he will ever make Amare guard him on offense.
Trade Daniels and either Bradley(if they would take him) or a resigned Hendu. This could work...I think it may be the only thing left that could hold us back from a title.

[aexchange]

would washington do a haywood/brown for dampier/marquis daniels deal?

[endtroducing]

we need an athlete on the frontline...I'd prefer not to spend the money Brown would want and get Gadzuric instead

[bo319]

Brown may want money but I doubt many teams will offer better than the mid-level. He has been injured alot and shown a somewhat bad attitude that makes him a risk...he has a world of talent but its not a certainty that he will ever realize it. If you could get him for 7-8 mill then Daniels and a resigned Hendu for a mill or two would work out cap wise.

[rakesh.s]

Originally posted by: aexchange
would washington do a haywood/brown for dampier/marquis daniels deal?

There's no way that works under the cap..Haywood is still on his rookie deal isn't he? Dampier and Daniels salary combine to close to 15 million, so unless you want to sign Kwame to a max deal, it won't work out.

I don't think there's any chance in hell that they'd part with Haywood either...He's their starting center and actually plays hard every game.

[ddh33]

Deespite the lack of maturity he has shown in these first few years, Kwame is a talent. I think the one chance he has at realizing it is away from DC. Personally, I would much rather have him here than Damp (and I've been a Damp supporter). I just like the idea of having someone that athletic playing center for the Mavs. I think it's needed.

Kwame isn't the only possibility though. A guy like Chris Wilcox in LA is someone who could possibly fit. Someone mentioned Gadzuric. I like Stromile Swift too.

[endtroducing]

I would love to work out a Dampier/Daniels deal that included Swift and Wells...Swift wants to be in a sign and trade, and they want to get rid of Wells. I really think Wells could be revived here, and we could potentially have an extremely athletic lineup, unlike the one we have now. Van Horn's role would be totally solidified as the backup PF. Gadzuric could maybe be brought in with our exception cash.

Terry, Harris
Wells, Finley
Howard, Stackhouse
Nowitzki, Van Horn
Swift, Gadzuric

every player in that five can run up and down the court. when we need to slow it up or play the half court, Finley could be valuable...and of course Stack off the bench. the trade would all depend on what Swift is resigned for and if they wanted Dampier...they are going into mega rebuild mode and Daniels would get a lot more time in Memphis than here...I just like the trade

[ddh33]

I don't want to give off the wrong impression here. I think Damp can stay and play a role in Dallas. Besides, even if it was a mistake to bring him in, I don't expect the Mavs to fess up to it for a while...

I would just like an athletic center to help against the guys who will give Damp fits. Maybe if Van Horn was here, Dirk and he share the center responsibilities, and this isn't as big a story. But I think there is a lack of athleticism on the frontcourt.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep hoping for the longterm development of the Mavs young kids. If DJ can be that athletic center to help for a few minutes a game, and if Pavel can be somewhat of a post presence, then the Mavs are way ahead of the curve...

[mavsman221]

about kwame this may sound crazy but what if this suspension was to discourage free agent offers. the wizards organization know to themselves that they have absolutely little to no chance to beat miama and kwame would not give them that much a greater chance. maybe they are trying to give teams the impression that he is a quitter and has a bad attitude so they can re-sign him for a lower price. kwame still has a chance to be good and a break out performance in the playoffs would lower washington's hopes of re-signing kwame. larry hughes is a free agent this summer and they are obviously going to need all the cap room they can get to re-sign hughes. perhaps a plot to re-sign both without breaking slary cap rules? probably far from the truth but just a little bit of what maybe why he was suspended.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: ddh33
I don't want to give off the wrong impression here. I think Damp can stay and play a role in Dallas. Besides, even if it was a mistake to bring him in, I don't expect the Mavs to fess up to it for a while...

I would just like an athletic center to help against the guys who will give Damp fits. Maybe if Van Horn was here, Dirk and he share the center responsibilities, and this isn't as big a story. But I think there is a lack of athleticism on the frontcourt.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep hoping for the longterm development of the Mavs young kids. If DJ can be that athletic center to help for a few minutes a game, and if Pavel can be somewhat of a post presence, then the Mavs are way ahead of the curve...

I agree totally. I've supported Damp more than anyone here, and despite the bickering of all the posters here, he's definately gonna be in Dallas for a while. Damp will be our starter for a while, and I just hope we can get an athletic 4-5 to spell Damp and Dirk. Of all the players out there, and that are available, Kwame certainly seems to fit the role the best.

[dalmations202]

The only move that I think they might make would be a Stack for Kwame. I wouldn't do it, but I think Washington might.

I would like to start with that core, as a GM as well.

That would be a starting lineup of Arenas, Hughes, Stackhouse, Jamison, and Haywood.
It could defend, slash, shoot, and play D (at least cover for Jamison somewhat).

That could be a very good idea for both teams in one sense.

That said, if I am Dallas, I probably don't do it because Stack brings too much to the court -- and Kwame has shown me nothing so far.

[kingrex]

Washington wouldn't retain a contract they just unloaded. So, I don't see Stackhouse going back to the Wizards.

Moreover, this would be a trade of a big for a small, again Washington won't do it. Nice try. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[dalmations202]

Washington might not do it. Dallas probably wouldn't do it.

But I would love to be the coach/GM that had that lineup to start with. Add some role players, and you have ECF finals.

As it is, they are short on that "take it to the rack" and score mentality. But they have a big, who had given them maybe 5 descent games in 3 years.

[Speedy]

Link
Jordan looked around. Off to the side, in sweat clothes, Kwame Brown stood alone, under a basket, trying to palm not one but two basketballs. The kid grinned and waved one ball in Jordan's direction, as if to say, Hi, hi, look over here.

Jordan never saw him, moving gingerly in the other direction with Grover, out the door.

Brown put the basketballs down and just stood there, watching.

To be the first high school player ever selected with the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft meant that 19-year-old Kwame Brown arrived in Wilmington as the Wizards' baby deity, the player with the second most value on the team, right behind Jordan. In any other NBA training camp but for the Los Angeles Lakers', the media would have mobbed Brown daily, reported on his every doing. But the relentless focus on Jordan enabled the 19-year-old Brown to undergo most of training camp away from intense scrutiny, a lucky thing, as Brown was struggling in Wilmington -- both on the court and in his relationships with the two most important Wizards, Jordan and Collins.

No one among the Wizards had expected him to perform like a star at the outset, or be skilled and savvy enough to start. The team's officials understood that, without exception to that point in the league's history, players drafted out of high school had struggled in their first couple of NBA seasons, including those who since had become marquee stars in the league -- Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal.

Typically, it took a year or longer for a teenager to develop a body strong enough to compete in the NBA, and even more time to acquire the finesse and signature power moves that tended to separate the survivors from mere street-ballers. While understanding that Brown likely would need an extended development period, Jordan and Wizards officials hoped that he would be a productive reserve in his first season, immediately rewarding their faith by displaying intense effort, concentration, discipline and glimpses of the kind of play that marked a 6-foot-11 future star. In short, they wanted to see an inkling of a future O'Neal or Garnett.

None of that seemed to be happening in Wilmington. It was scary for some Wizards officials to see just how befuddled and often listless Brown appeared to be. The second-guessing over Jordan's choice of Brown began almost immediately. Swiftly, Brown became a case study in the risks of angering Jordan, a man famously intolerant of slackers and mediocrities.

When Brown arrived at training camp in October out of shape after spending part of the summer recovering from back spasms and an illness, Jordan had been patient for about a week, draping his arm around Brown and praising his ability to Wizards officials. For Brown, it seemed nothing had changed. In October, he appeared to be the only Wizards player who enjoyed a real friendship with Jordan, which had begun during the Wizards' courtship of him prior to the 2001 NBA draft.


After a rought start, Kwame stayed out of Jordan's team focus.
For a while in Wilmington, Jordan simultaneously played the roles of buddy, mentor and Professor Henry Higgins to Brown's Eliza Doolittle. He lectured Kwame on clothes and nutrition, took him to dinner and asked him if he felt like hanging out with him in the trainer's room. He wanted Brown to see the brilliance of the life that awaited him if he worked hard and succeeded. One day after practice, having noticed Kwame palming yet another basketball in solitary amusement, Jordan palmed two balls, extending his arms and shouting to Brown: "Hey, Kwame, you know what the difference is between you doing this and me doing this?" Brown looked stumped. Jordan laughed and yelled, "They pay me $35 million when I do it."

It was as if, in Brown, Jordan saw the possibility of a kinship with a future star so luminous as to be deserving of a bond with him. "When he got to camp, it was like Kwame already had the credentials in Michael's eyes to be a part of Michael's group," said a Wizards official who observed them daily. "So Michael let him in. For a while at least."

Jordan's infatuation with his protégé waned. He thought Brown was cocky and disrespectful sometimes, particularly when the teenager nagged him about playing a one-on-one game, hinting that doom awaited him. Finally, Jordan agreed to the game, Brown grinning on the court, convinced his youth and height would be indefensible weapons against this shorter man twice his age. Early in the game, believing he had a lunging, jabbing Jordan off balance, the kid dared to say, "You reach, I'll teach."

Jordan snapped, "You teach, and I'll knock you on your damn ass."

He proceeded to humiliate Brown, mocking him while scoring at will, declining to help him up when the teenager fell hard to the floor, winning lopsidedly and, at the end, yelling at Brown to acknowledge his superiority in front of the team: "You better call me 'Daddy,' (expletive)."

"Michael was breaking him down," one observer recounted, "probably to build him up. But there was a lot of breaking down."

Things deteriorated quickly thereafter. Brown didn't work hard enough for Jordan's taste, and it did not help that many in the Wizards organization, from officials to teammates, thought the kid showed no capacity for either accepting criticism or honoring an old basketball tenet that said rookies should play hard, accept bruises and complain about nothing.

With the criticism mounting and his play getting worse, Brown became maddeningly frustrated, a kid convinced he was being repeatedly fouled in intrasquad scrimmages by two veterans, Christian Laettner and Jahidi White, who weren't quick enough, Brown believed, to stay with him. He would drive toward the basket and feel himself being bumped by a hard hip, sometimes losing the ball, infuriated the referees wouldn't blow a whistle. "That was a foul," he finally groaned.

Play stopped. There was an electric silence. A wide-eyed Jordan was walking toward him. "You (expletive) flaming (expletive)," Jordan exploded. "You don't get a foul call on a (expletive) little touch foul, you (expletive). You don't bring that (expletive) here. Get your (expletive) ass back on the floor and play. I don't want to hear that (expletive) out of you again. Get your ass back and play, you (expletive)."

A stupefied Brown could say nothing. He looked close to tears, thought a witness.

"It was not a mortal wound," the same Wizards official said. But the man believed that Jordan's words left Brown numb for several days thereafter, observing that Brown appeared to be increasingly tentative on the court.

For as long as Jordan would remain in his life, Brown would be diplomatic. Even so, some memories he had difficulty holding back.

"It was pretty rough," Brown recalled later of the scrimmage. "But that's Michael Jordan. You deal with it. You learn you're a rookie and you're not going to get calls. ... But sometimes I felt all alone out there, like I was surrounded by sharks."

Famously hard in the past on many of his Bulls teammates, Jordan saw his approach in the Wizards camp as part of the toughening process for rookies and others who had not yet learned how to win in the NBA. He liked testing people, even when it ran the risk of temporarily breaking their spirit, certain that the strong would become better for it, and that the intimidated were unworthy anyway. He rode Tyronn Lue hard for not passing him the ball in his favorite place down low near the basket and for not being positioned at the right spots to take Jordan's passes and shoot long jumpers: "What are you doin' runnin' around? Get me the ball, get set, catch my pass and shoot. I don't give a (expletive) how far out you are. Shoot out there. If you're open, don't be drivin' down in the lane and gettin' that (expletive) swatted away. Shoot."

He would be flabbergasted watching Brendan Haywood drop balls, and scornful when Courtney Alexander and Richard Hamilton got burned on defense or didn't fill the proper lane on a fast break. But he saved his most withering looks and words for Brown, with whom he didn't seem to know what he wanted to do, lavishing attention on the kid in one moment, skewering him the next. Freely admitting to having had his ass kicked on many days, Brown had taken refuge in his video games. He loved these solitary contests, his head bent with a concentration so complete that teammates calling to him sometimes couldn't get his attention.

Jordan sporadically continued trying to play the role of mentor. It was not something that came to him naturally. He regularly approached Brown in locker rooms, whispering to him, earnestly patting his back for a couple of seconds. But they were separated by a full generation, and nothing linked them other than basketball and their passion for games. One afternoon after a practice, Brown rushed up to him, having heard that Jordan played poker and tonk with other players.

"Can I play with you guys?" Brown asked.

"You want to play cards?" Jordan sounded at once dubious and intrigued.

"Yeah."

Jordan chuckled. "You'll bring your money?" he asked, making clear the rules: "People have to bring their money. No owing. Gotta bring your money."

"OK."

"We can do that, rook. Just make sure to bring your money."

Assistant coach John Bach interrupted, warning Brown: "Kwame, there're some things you don't do in life. You don't eat at a place called 'Mom's,' you don't play poker with a guy named 'Doc,' and you don't play cards with Michael Jordan."

Jordan groaned at Bach. "Why did you have to say that?"

Others observed Brown happily playing with Jordan a couple of times, but no card game could be a substitute for a real relationship. Theirs was suffering new strains all the time. As Brown's on-court performance and practice habits continued to lag behind other players', Jordan and Collins began losing what was left of their patience. There would be no good cop-bad cop arrangement between them, no one from whom Brown could count on receiving a little sympathy after the other had eviscerated him.

Collins began sharing his misgivings about Brown with the media. Not many businesses permit their supervisors to publicly bad-mouth and sometimes humiliate their workers. But in professional sports, and the NBA especially, coaches and the media have a mutual interest in seeing a few players embarrassed. Media receives something to gab and write about; coaches get to vent. Good and bad coaches alike tell reporters who on their teams shoots too much, or who is out of shape, or too emotional, or not emotional enough, or not seeming to grasp the offense, or slacking on defense, or who -- in the most damning criticism -- looks totally lost out there.

Coaches use the media as a conduit for turning up the heat on underproducing players, and Collins was using the training camp to put the flame under a 19-year-old.

"I begged him this summer to understand what kind of condition you have to be in to play at this level," he said, sounding alarmed, and no coach was more talented at sounding alarmed than Collins. He invested and begged with the force of a parent who said he'd begged his child not to drink and drive. He made begged sound like a mournful plea, the last fruitless attempt of a caring and beleaguered elder, adding, "And he came in woefully out of shape. And he's trying to catch up at the wrong time."

Collins's approach toward Brown was confusing and contradictory. He would say something stinging about Brown early in a week, and later, as if trying to put a salve on his criticism, comment that he "loved" Brown and that the teenager was doing everything asked of him. He'd call Kwame over, in front of the media, and say he had a video for him to watch. "Kwame's been great. He's been great," Collins said during week two. "He's working hard. I couldn't ask anything more from him. He's got a great spirit and attitude ..."

Soon, Collins was publicly perturbed again: Brown, he said, was seven pounds overweight; the young man was stubborn; he didn't listen well; his conditioning was still subpar. "He's in great shape," Collins said sarcastically, "to play a high school game."

It was an early look at the erratic style that had plagued Collins elsewhere. Less than a month into his NBA career, Brown found himself in the surreal position of having to deny that he had a problem with his 50-year-old coach. Jordan was ill-suited for mending things. "These young kids should take it upon themselves to prove that they deserve to be in a winning program," he said, pursing his lips as if pained, "because they haven't thus far."

Kwame was his potential nightmare. Kwame might be his Ishtar. Kwame, he knew, might be the only thing people remembered of his executive days, if they weren't all careful. Why couldn't the kid handle the ball? he asked people in his entourage. Was it just his imagination, he asked, or did Kwame's hands look small? What the hell was happening?


Brown showed flashes of brilliance, but never enough to escape Jordan's wrath.
Jordan tried to stay upbeat, but he wafted doubt. Where was Kwame's head right now? somebody asked him.

"Kansas, somewhere," he answered.

Hearing laughter, he tried to soften that. "A kid, 19 years old, getting a dose of what NBA basketball is all about: I imagine his head is spinning. But he has to be willing to make the commitment. ... He's walking around with a headache, I'm pretty sure ..." He posed a rhetorical question. "Could (Kwame be showing) resistance? Could be. Could be."

Meanwhile, the young man with the headache had spent the training camp and preseason perfecting his look of serenity. No matter how bad it got, Brown told others, it would get better. He had been a poor Georgia kid just six months earlier and now he was a multimillionaire and this was much better, he thought. I bumped into him by accident late one afternoon. He stood smiling just outside the gymnasium in Wilmington, saying things were going OK and that he tried not to read much in the papers about himself or anything else. Didn't want to know what people were saying about anything. Just wanted to relax at night when he was done. Relax, play his video games, be left alone. Alone. Not needing to know anything more than what they'd stuffed in his head that day. Alone. A nice peaceful feeling.

And you could do that, Kwame Brown said. "That's the good thing. You can really be alone in your room if you want and people can't get to you. Just rest. Get ready for the next practice. Not having to think about anything else. You can like tune out. That's a good feeling. Nobody can get to you. Nothin'."

Even with all his on-court hassles, he liked it, the life, he said. He was an affable young guy, engaging to be around and at that moment delighted to see a big collared German shepherd crossing the path in front of us, being led by a policeman. "Damn, that's a big dog," he said happily. "Why do people bring a dog to a gym?"

They're here to do a search, I said. It's just precautionary.

He looked at me.

Search the place for bombs, I said. Before your intrasquad game. Just routine. Precautionary.

His mouth opened into an oval, a big O. His face went slack with surprise. Not shock or worry, but surprise just the same, that big puzzlement that comes when you've thought all along that something can't touch you and then you get an inkling that somebody else thinks it can. He'd heard a lot about the thing, as he called it. The thing in New York, the thing in Washington. Terrible thing. He was puzzled that anybody thought that the thing might ever get this close. Nothing but basketball ever got this close. "Big dog," he mumbled.

The dog was already sniffing at stuff.

"They really gonna look for bombs?"

He stared, his mouth wet and open, a kid's mouth.

They looked for bombs.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Jeez, it really sounds like that his entire experience in Washington has been sour, and that he lives in his own world. I guess it isn't surprising considering the circumstances. It happens all the time in sports. Young, immature kids are thrown into this situation, given millions of dollars overnight, along with fame, and freedom of consequence, and are expected to handle it. With Kwame though, it seems even worse because he had Michael Jordan looking over his shoulder all the time. I really think that the kid's got some major issues with his confidence. He's obviously not staying in Washington, hopefully he'll have a much better experience wherever he ends up. He's definitely got potential, he just needs to grow up. I think it'd be really interesting to see if AJ could bring out the best in him.

[endtroducing]

I've never felt bad for a millionaire before...but man, I feel awful for Kwame Brown. I really hope he makes it.

[kingrex]

The Wizards organization should be embarassed at how this kid was handled. I understand that he has shown little to no work ethic, but to invest the kind of money they did and NOT have a better mentoring system for this kid is a shame.

[rakesh.s]

Kwame will be a solid player when he gets his change of scenery..This is similar to the situation 2 years ago with Amare and Stephon. Amare was complaining that Stephon never passed the ball. It's the same thing in Washington..Arenas and Hughes are never going to pass him the ball.

I wasn't quite sure what kind of year they were expecting him to have after bringing in Jamison...That took away any chance he had of being a 3rd scorer or getting touches.