Top 25 Greatest Players Ever

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

My apoligies on getting your statement incorrect. The cursing is not necessary though.

It's inconsistent because if you are using DRB% to conclude that Barkley is slightly better since he has a slightly better DRB%, then wouldn't you also have to conclude that 35 individuals were better defensive rebounders than Moses Malone, since his DRB% has his 36th on the list? You are basically saying this is your conclusion based on the metric (they have near the same %). So wouldn't that theory hold for other comparisons, such as Moses Malone being 36th on the list?



Moses Malone played until he was 39. I have already mentioned this to you once, but when you are using numbers to compare players you have to take into account that one is currently playing and has yet to really hit their decline and one (ala Moses Malone or Karl Malone) is finished playing and their final average includes post prime years, which causes theur numbers to drop. Dirk has played 13 seasons and is 32 or 33. Go look at Malone's numbers from his first 13 years and I guarentee you his drb avg was not the same as Dirk's.



I am arguing that if I use the metric in the same manner that you are using it, then the conclusions tell me that 35 people were better defensive rebounders than Moses Malone. That's not an accurate conclusion. These are the types of inconsistencies that I'm referring to. The same goes for PER, which tells me that David Robinson was more productive than Kareem, Wilt and Hakeem.

What ARE you arguing?

You say that Moses' DRB% is lower because he played until he was 39...this is in part true. So why are you surprised that X amount of guys have better DRB% than him, when you already conclude that his DRB% (AND raw DRPG) is lower bc he played so late in his career?

Malone, in his PRIME had a higher DRB% than Dirk in his prime...so I'm not seeing the point of contention.

If we look at MM's PRIME, I'm guessing he is no longer 35th. He's 35th, in part, because as we've already established, his rebounding declined with age.

[kingmalaki]

Originally Posted by CadBane

What ARE you arguing?

You say that Moses' DRB% is lower because he played until he was 39...this is in part true. So why are you surprised that X amount of guys have better DRB% than him, when you already conclude that his DRB% (AND raw DRPG) is lower bc he played so late in his career?

Malone, in his PRIME had a higher DRB% than Dirk in his prime...so I'm not seeing the point of contention.

If we look at MM's PRIME, I'm guessing he is no longer 35th. He's 35th, in part, because as we've already established, his rebounding declined with age.

I am not trying to argue Dirk vs Moses Malone. I am simply using Malone as an example of how the metrics conclusions have some inconsistencies, which is why I don't rely on them. In the case of Malone, he is 36th on the list. Tons of the players above him played full careers as well. There werent 35 better rebounders than Moses. Marcus Camby and Carlos Boozer are 5th and 6th on the list. They aren't the 5th and 6th best defensive rebounders that we have seen. The PER metric also has tons of these conclusions that don't make sense, such as David Robinson being above Wilt and Kareem.*

That's all I'm arguing and questioning you about. The metric is producing some results that don't make sense, as far as comparing players. And PER completely discounts defense (look at Bruce Bowens PER for example).*