2019 Mavs Free Agency

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

They're stupid AND they go off on the fans!

Thank god we have Luka and KP to watch otherwise I'd be out.

Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!

I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

We were supposed to sign a big name FA (according to Cuban), or even just a couple of mid-tier guys (according to Donnie), but all we got were career bench players... We had $30m in cap space and only used half of it -- I've never heard of a team that planned on going over the cap leaving that much space on the table.

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.

[purplefrog]

@SIChrisMannix about 15 minutes ago
Celtics have waived Guerschon Yabusele, per team. Yabusele -- the 16th pick in the 2016 draft -- could never crack the rotation. Played in just 74 games over two seasons. Celtics open up a roster spot.

The "Dancing Bear" is available!! He would be a perfect complement to Bobi.

[ChileanMavsFan]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

@SIChrisMannix about 15 minutes ago
Celtics have waived Guerschon Yabusele, per team. Yabusele -- the 16th pick in the 2016 draft -- could never crack the rotation. Played in just 74 games over two seasons. Celtics open up a roster spot.

The "Dancing Bear" is available!! He would be a perfect complement to Bobi.

Funnily enough, the 16th pick of the 2016 draft used by Boston to draft Yabusele was ours (Rondo + Powell trade). So with Yabusele out, the only player out of that trade that is still with the team is Dwight Powell. Suck it Boston!

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

We were supposed to sign a big name FA (according to Cuban), or even just a couple of mid-tier guys (according to Donnie), but all we got were career bench players... We had $30m in cap space and only used half of it -- I've never heard of a team that planned on going over the cap leaving that much space on the table.

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.

Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by JJP

Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.

You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.

And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.

[particleman]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.

And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.

You guys all sound stupid right now. The front office has made some mistakes and hit some homeruns. This offseason was bad, but honestly none of us can know for certain whether it could have been better.

I think everyone agrees Mark Cuban lashing out at fans is bad. Give yourself +10 points for winning an argument. Are you happy now?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by particleman

You guys all sound stupid right now. The front office has made some mistakes and hit some homeruns. This offseason was bad, but honestly none of us can know for certain whether it could have been better.

I think everyone agrees Mark Cuban lashing out at fans is bad. Give yourself +10 points for winning an argument. Are you happy now?

LMAO if any of us were happy, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. And I'm not trying to win an argument. I seriously wondered if there was a reading comprehension issue on the discussion because people seem to keep going back to "just a bad offseason" schtick like that is my main issue.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You just totally and perhaps (tactically?) ignored the last line in UD's response. I'm not sure how many times it has to be repeated for people to understand.

The owner lashing out on fans in a position of severe weakness changes everything with your response. Everything. Mike Fisher made a whole damn personal video of it if in case you've been living under a rock...and that guy is under Cuban's dollar! And I don't even like Mike Fisher, but damn, after that, I had somewhat of a new found respect for doing it.

Well no, I haven't been living under a rock. I posted to this very subject already several posts above this one. I agree with you completely. Or almost anyway.

And even if you wanted to somehow side with Cuban saying fans on twitter are dumb, well, the actions speak louder than words.

Seth Curry/Delon Wright/Bad guy from John Wick is the offseason so far and now the cap space is vamush! I'm rooting for them all to be successful, honestly, but there is also a good chance none of those acquisitions really have an effect on the win column.

I don't have much of a problem with this either.

But here's my point. it's not exactly what's being said, it's the fact that some people here seem way over the top with the criticism. When we go to "stupid" and "idiots," then it's just silly nonsense.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by JJP

Well DaviddaMonkey can speak for himself, but he has a point as far as I'm concerned.

I am hugely critical of how the FO portrayed free agency, and then actually performed in free agency. But at no time was I so upset that I threatened to quit watching the Mavs, or refer to them all as idiots. I realize it's all mostly exaggerated hyperbole born out of our frustration, but we haven't even seen a game yet.

I criticize them for overpaying and then I criticize them for not paying enough to get them. But let's face it. Kemba and Danny Green wanted to play elsewhere. That's just the way it is. We're not any good in FA, but neither is almost half of the NBA... and Adam Silver has pretty much admitted it was a problem.

So I get the eye-rolling disappointment. It's this kind of disgusted fury that's so over the top and juvenile. It's a fan board, so there's always some of that. I get it. But, and I know this is shocking, we actually don't know more than they do.

If they truly only had one target this offseason then they are true idiots. Instead of upgrading personnel they spent it on players they already had.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't understand why you see everything so black and white... You can be happy that the front office pulled off the Luka and KP trades while at the same time recognizing that this offseason was an abject failure.

....

So we're one of the best teams in the league at trades, but we completely suck at free agency. The FO shouldn't get complimented for its strengths while ignoring its weaknesses... Especially not when the owner is going after disappointed fans on Twitter.

Something must be getting lost before I click "send" because people only seeing this as black and white is exactly the thing I'm complaining about. I'm not seeing people say "I disagree with moves A, B, and C". I'm seeing people say "The FO did A, B, and C so they are stupid and I'm going to quit watching!!!"

My point is to take a more holistic approach and realize that there are shades of grey. They can make (or not make) a move you disagree with, but not be overall "stupid" or "idiots". I have no problem with being disappointed with specific decisions, but they thing that upsets me is writing them off entirely because you don't agree with how they spent part of one offseason.

Even within one offseason I don't understand how you can see it as an "abject failure". They locked up KP. They built continuity within the team. They added some decent role players. I would love if they had spent their cap space differently and I don't fully understand the reasons why they didn't, but I don't think that makes it an "abject failure". That, to me, seems like the "black and white" view.

Edit: I 100% agree that we shouldn't only compliment the strengths OR rail against the missteps. But all I'm seeing from some posters is complaints, with no acknowledgment of the achievements, so I guess I'm specifically trying to balance that out. Even better, instead of being upset about things we don't agree with, in an ideal world I'd love to see "Hmmm, this decision doesn't make sense to me, I wonder why they are moving in that direction" rather than "ZOMG! What IDIOTS!! They didn't do what I want or expect them to do so they are all sooooo dumb!"

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

My point is to take a more holistic approach and realize that there are shades of grey. They can make (or not make) a move you disagree with, but not be overall "stupid" or "idiots". I have no problem with being disappointed with specific decisions, but they thing that upsets me is writing them off entirely because you don't agree with how they spent part of one offseason.

Are you sure you want to go with that? One off season? This FO has rolled out plan powder for 6 or 7 years. This isn't about one off season. This is about the previous 7 years and the bleak outlook at improving the roster for the next 2 or so years. The 2 good moves they made killed our draft assets for trades so yeah good job but the job's not done. They really needed more out of this class of free agents. Next year's class sucks. Truly it's a shit poor free agent class. The potential downside is we cannot improve this roster in a significant way for 2 more years and then it's going to rely on us doing well in free agency when we haven't done well for the better part of a decade. And in the meantime we will get to read articles from Fish and his group of how financially it will be possible to get Giannis and somehow trade Powell and his super high PER with some magic beans and get Myles Turner to join Giannis on the Mavs in 2021. And then when free agency ends we will have signed 2yr older Danny Green and Biyombo.

So if fans are being overly critical and you are making the assumption it's based on "one off season" of things they didn't agree with. I think you need to rethink that.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Are you sure you want to go with that? One off season? This FO has rolled out plan powder for 6 or 7 years. This isn't about one off season. This is about the previous 7 years and the bleak outlook at improving the roster for the next 2 or so years. The 2 good moves they made killed our draft assets for trades so yeah good job but the job's not done. They really needed more out of this class of free agents. Next year's class sucks. Truly it's a shit poor free agent class. The potential downside is we cannot improve this roster in a significant way for 2 more years and then it's going to rely on us doing well in free agency when we haven't done well for the better part of a decade. And in the meantime we will get to read articles from Fish and his group of how financially it will be possible to get Giannis and somehow trade Powell and his super high PER with some magic beans and get Myles Turner to join Giannis on the Mavs in 2021. And then when free agency ends we will have signed 2yr older Danny Green and Biyombo.

So if fans are being overly critical and you are making the assumption it's based on "one off season" of things they didn't agree with. I think you need to rethink that.

Nah, I don't need to rethink anything. We may have differing opinions but I don't need you to tell me how to think. And as far as Fish goes, he's the only part of all of this that I'm willing to say is 100% an idiotic tool, so I don't put much thought into anything he says.

"Winning" in free agency every year is not easy. I'd go so far as to say it's incredibly hard. I think the Mavs have lost out on some opportunities, but I don't think it's because they are always idiots. I think think they've rolled some dice, made some good decisions, made some bad decisions, but overall I've had a blast watching and rooting for them. Even when they strike out on plan A, (or B or C or D) I've usually been excited about what they are able to pull out of their collective hats in the end.

Over a year ago some fans were talking about how stupid the Mavs are, and then they got Luka. Then they were talking about how stupid they are and then they got KP. I have no idea what they will do next, and yeah I agree that their options are limited, but that's what makes it fun to follow and speculate about.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Nah, I don't need to rethink anything. We may have differing opinions but I don't need you to tell me how to think. And as far as Fish goes, he's the only part of all of this that I'm willing to say is 100% an idiotic tool, so I don't put much thought into anything he says.

"Winning" in free agency every year is not easy. I'd go so far as to say it's incredibly hard. I think the Mavs have lost out on some opportunities, but I don't think it's because they are always idiots. I think think they've rolled some dice, made some good decisions, made some bad decisions, but overall I've had a blast watching and rooting for them. Even when they strike out on plan A, (or B or C or D) I've usually been excited about what they are able to pull out of their collective hats in the end.

Over a year ago some fans were talking about how stupid the Mavs are, and then they got Luka. Then they were talking about how stupid they are and then they got KP. I have no idea what they will do next, and yeah I agree that their options are limited, but that's what makes it fun to follow and speculate about.

Oh good grief. I am not trying to tell you how to think.

Well whatever. I highlighted the word "one" for a reason. If a post about how people are upset over more than one year is telling you how to think then I really don't know how to respond to you.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I think you need to rethink that.

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I am not trying to tell you how to think.

Hey! My first time ever using the Multi-quote feature! Did I do it right?

[turin]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Right?!? The FO is so stupid and useless! Thank God for the secret shadow FO that stepped in over the last year to engineer the draft night trade for Luka and the blockbuster trade for KP! I sure wish they'd come back and replace the idiots working in the FO currently!

You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by turin

You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL

Two years straight they flirted with tanking and won too many games. They had a top 5 protected pick and traded their starters and decided to win down the stretch. Moronic.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by turin

You mean the same crack FO that couldn't seem to reign in the Mavs going down the stretch in order to avoid picking up a few meaningless wins that might end up costing them come draft time? You know, like having to spend an extra 1st round pick to move up to a position they should've had outright? SMH

You're pretty thin-skinned and react like a guy who works for the Mavs. LOL

Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.

[turin]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.

The Mavs' FO is never in the middle. THAT's the problem. The Mavs crowning achievement, that wasn't even this offseason, was them stealing KP from the Knicks (Yes, totally awesome move. I love the risk/reward). There are 30 NBA franchises. Remove the Mavs and Knicks, and you are left with 28 teams. Out of the remaining 28, how many are run as pitifully or worse than the Knicks and subject to blowing it on their franchise player? I'm not sure if there is one left out there right now. Even the Suns are not that idiotic, so far. Take away the winning lottery ticket that is the KP fleecing of the Knicks and what do they have to brag about over the last 5 years? Luka? Yeah, I'll give you partial credit on that one considering they had to likely cough up an extra 1st to get him due to moronically winning meaningless games down the stretch.

How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a top 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Enough with the examples. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans recently after previously CYA'ing it with lies that weren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they had been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan powder? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.

[DavidDaMonkey]

Originally Posted by turin

The Mavs FO is never in the middle. THAT's the problem. The Mavs crowning achievement, that wasn't even this offseason, was them stealing KP from the Knicks (Yes, totally awesome move. I love the risk/reward). There are 30 NBA franchises. Remove the Mavs and Knicks, and you are left with 28 teams. Out of the remaining 28, how many are run as pitifully or worse than the Knicks and subject to blowing it on their franchise player? I'm not sure if there is one left out there right now. Even the Suns are not that idiotic, so far. Take away the winning lottery ticket that is the KP fleecing of the Knicks and what do they have to brag about over the last 5 years? Luka? Yeah, I'll give you partial credit on that one considering they had to likely cough up an extra 1st to get him due to moronically winning meaningless games down the stretch.

How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a to 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans while previously CYA'ing it with lies that aren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they have been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan power? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.

They've kept you interested and entertained while operating at apparently 20% of their potential, so I'd say they've been pretty darn effective. And if they haven't, well then I have no idea why you are wasting your time discussing something that has been so horrid to you for so many years. That's a weird thing to do.

I once dated a girl for 7 years. We both knew not too long into it that there were too many problems and that it wasn't enjoyable, but we kept hanging on for some reason. Eventually we realized that moving on was for the best. Maybe it's time you for you and the Mavs to break up and for you to move on and find an organization that you actually enjoy rooting for and maybe eventually you can find some joy in basketball again. If we look past the Knicks, there are 28 other teams....

[turin]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

They've kept you interested and entertained while operating at apparently 20% of their potential, so I'd say they've been pretty darn effective. And if they haven't, well then I have no idea why you are wasting your time discussing something that has been so horrid to you for so many years. That's a weird thing to do.

I once dated a girl for 7 years. We both knew not to long into it that there were too many problems and that it wasn't enjoyable, but we kept hanging on for some reason. Eventually we realized that moving on was for the best. Maybe it's time you for you and the Mavs to break up and for you to move on and find an organization that you actually enjoy rooting for and maybe eventually you can find some joy in basketball again. If we look past the Knicks, there are 28 other teams....

One word.... DIRK.

That's the only reason I watched post 2012 up until drafting Luka, and I've said that before a few times, possibly even in this same thread.

Now we have Luka, and he is going to be a blast to watch, so I'll be tuning in. Will he be another Dirk? Probably not, but it's going to be fun finding out. I want him to be the best Luka he can be and hopefully all of his playing time will be spent in Dallas.

I just hate to see wasted opportunities. For the last 20 or so years, the Mavs have been leading the NBA in identifying top European talent - Dirk, Luka, KP, and yes, Giannis, but the days of Dallas having an overwhelming European scouting advantage over the other franchises is just about gone, so the MBT needs to really step up and make better use of ALL aspects of talent acquisition available - that includes the draft and free agency. They've got to be better at something more than just trades. I don't think I ask for too much. I look at middle of the road as a big improvement for them at this point. Oh yeah, quit lying to the fans (customers) and treating them like dumbarses who haven't a clue. Mr. Shark Tank should know that. It's business 101.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by turin

How many of Dirk's years were wasted post 2011? He's a top 20 all-time player. How often does a talent like him come along? I will give Donnie a huge attaboy for zeroing in on Giannis, but we didn't get him. Enough with the examples. Now the icing on the cake is Cuban going off on the fans recently after previously CYA'ing it with lies that weren't even that believable.

Yes, I agree with you that the Mavs have not been 100% flawless, but middle of the road? say 50%? I wish they had been that effective. What % effectiveness would you rate the FO over say the last 8 years, since dismantling an NBA champion for plan powder? I'll throw 20% out there for you as a starting point. IMO, THAT's most certainly NOT middle of the road.

I cant think of a more unlucky FO:

2012:
Deron signs with Brooklyn and tells it was a 51:49 decision against us

2013:
Fegan tries to push Dwight towards Dallas because it was by far the best fit but he signs with Houston (and it fires completly back for him). After Dwight is gone we have an agreement with Iggy. Iggy prefers GS but they are over the cap. Like two hours before Iggys deadline to GS they are able to shred almost 30m in contracts because the Jazz are blowing it up. Two years later Iggy is Finals MVP

2014:
The FO actually realize that Dirk is no recruiter and they get Parsons. Healthy a nice fit but i think his recruiting game was as important. But he cant stay healthy at all

2015:
DeAndre pulls off the biggest ass move and ruins the entire free agency period because he backs out when every freaking other FA signed somewhere else.

2016:
Gigantic cap spike, Dirk allready dirt old, the Mavs try their best and get Barnes and hopes he improves. Was under this circumstances not a bad move. Overpaid yes, but not bad.

So...if you recap it you see how much freaking bad luck the Mavs had.

[particleman]

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Yep. The same FO. We only have one. They've made some good moves and some bad moves in their history. They don't have to be 100% flawless or complete idiots. There's room in the middle.

And I'm the one willing to see both sides of the situation, so I don't see how I'm the thin-skinned one. I will say though that I totally wish I worked for the Mavs, that would be awesome.

I think lost in all of this is that whether our front office is:

1) full of idiots who've gotten super lucky to acquire generational talent that carried us to almost two straight decades of winning basketball and a championship

or

2) relatively smart guys who have done their job, on average, better than most other NBA front offices,

we still got to spend the last two decades watching Dirk Nowitzki and now get to spend at least a few seasons watching Luka Doncic and Kristaps Porzingis play together under one of the top 5 head coaches in the league, either way. There was no gap there. Dirk retired and now we have Luka and Kristaps. That's going to be fun! We're incredibly lucky as basketball fans. Almost every other franchise in the league wishes they could have it so good.

Anyway, I think that's where some of us feel like some of you guys are just being exhausting in your negativity right now. Trust me, we ALL get it: this offseason was not a success. How many more weeks will you guys need to spend bitching about it before you're satisfied?