Kerry Takes Iowa; Dean a Distant Third

[MavKikiNYC]

Dean Lags Far Behind Edwards; Gephardt Finishes Fourth
By ADAM NAGOURNEY

Published: January 20, 2004


ES MOINES, Jan 19 — Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts won the Iowa caucuses here Monday, brushing aside the insurgent candidacy of Howard Dean with an appeal that he would be the strongest candidate the Democrats had to beat President Bush.

Senator John Edwards of North Carolina came in second, captapulting him into the first tier of contenders in a showing that ended up pushing Dr. Dean into third place.

Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri appeared headed for fourth place in his second bid for the presidency, a devastating showing that Democrats said would almost certainly force him out of the race.

Dr. Dean conceded even as Iowans were voting, and when less than half the vote had been reported.

"I'm delighted to finish in the top three," Dr. Dean said in an interview with Larry King on CNN. "On to New Hampshire."

With more than 90 percent of the precincts reporting, Mr. Kerry had almost 37.5 percent of the delegate support awarded in the caucuses. Mr. Edwards had 32 percent, Dr. Dean 18 percent, Mr. Gephardt 11 percent and Dennis Kucinich 1 percent. More than 113,000 people had participated.

The victory by Mr. Kerry would seem to validate the thoroughly unconventional campaign tack he took: to come to Iowa to replenish a candidacy that had been languishing in New Hampshire, and use an unexpected victory to power him back to life in his neighboring state. By every measure, his showing here gave him a huge lift as he headed back to New Hampshire to confront the candidacy of Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who skipped the Iowa contest.

The day also delivered a huge and unexpected victory for Mr. Edwards, who seemed delighted if a bit surprised by the outcome tonight.

"My message is finally coming through," he said. "In the end, the caucusgoers heard it. That's the reason for this momentum and this surprise."

The result was a serious setback for Dr. Dean, who had campaigned intensely across this state for more than a year. It was a clear disappointment to a candidate who just a week ago was confident of victory here and in New Hampshire. Surveys of voters entering the caucus sites suggested that what was Dr. Dean's central appeal — his opposition to the war — had done him little good on Monday night. Instead, the issue that Democratic voters here and in New Hampshire repeatedly said was a top priority — finding a candidate who could beat President Bush — weighed heavily upon them, to Dr. Dean's disadvantage. Among the more than a quarter of voters who called electability their top priority, Mr. Kerry won by a ratio of almost two to one.

Dr. Dean was on a plane Monday for Manchester, leaving little doubt about where this battle is about to turn: to the state with the first direct voter primary.

"I'm looking forward to the primary," Dr. Dean said. "It's a new day, a new state."

Iowans who voted in the caucuses were far more likely to cite health care and the economy than the war in Iraq as their most pressing concerns in this election, even after a year in which the war in Iraq significantly shaped the Democratic presidential contest, according to a survey of voters entering caucus sites.

The survey found that the caucuses, the most competitive Democratic contest this state has had in at least 16 years, produced a spike of new interest, with about half of caucusgoers saying they were attending their first caucus. At the same time, the survey confirmed what voters here and in New Hampshire have repeatedly said from the start of the year: That defeating President Bush was a top priority for Democratic voters this year.

More than a quarter described it as the key consideration in casting their votes.

Three in 10 said the decisions were based on the candidates' taking strong stands on issues.

In a sign of how the climate here has changed over the last six months, barely 15 percent said the war in Iraq had shaped their final decision, even though 75 percent said they opposed the war. Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, emerged as a major contender here in large part by opposing the war in Iraq, drawing a sharp contrast with three opponents who voted for the war while in Congress: Mr. Gephardt, Mr. Kerry Mr. Edwards.

Dr. Dean won barely half the support of voters who called the war in Iraq their top priority. And opponents of the war split almost evenly between Dr. Dean and Mr. Kerry, who voted for the Iraqi resolution in Congress, a position for which he was repeatedly lambasted here during this campaign.

The survey also suggested that the central theme of Mr. Gephardt's appeal -- pledging to fight against overly liberal trade agreements -- did not fare well. Barely five percent of voters named that as their top issue; and he won the support of just one-third of union households.

Among elderly voters, a key contingent in Iowa, and another target of Mr. Gephardt, Mr. Kerry won the support of about one-third, compared to about one-quarter for Mr. Gephardt. The elderly made up one-third of the electorate.

The poll also reflected the extent to which the election shifted in the final week: almost half of Mr. Kerry's supporters and half of Mr. Edwards' supporters said they decided to support them in the last week. By contrast, just a third of Dr. Dean's supporters made their decision in the final days of the campaign, suggesting the extent to which Mr. Edwards and Mr. Kerry won the undecided vote.

The poll was conducted by by Edison/Mitofsky for the National Election Pool of the networks and The Associated Press with 1,064 participants as they arrived Monday night for the caucuses in 50 precincts throughout the state. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 4 percentage points.

As the caucuses opened, some of the sites were packed, with some voters saying they had not quite made up their minds about what to do, reflecting what many Democrats have said was the extraordinary volatility of this contest.

In Waukee, a Des Moines suburb, Terry Meyer, a retired computer systems analyst, said as he walked into his caucus site that he was leaning toward Mr. Kerry, that he thought Mr. Kerry had the best chance of defeating President Bush.

"Really, the man whose ideas I really like and who I was torn between is Kucinich," he said. "But now that he's not really so much of a factor, I think I might go over to Kerry."

"I just think that Kerry has more experience and the better chance," he said.

In Indianola, Larry Buttrey, 62, a retired machinist, said he was leaning toward Mr. Edwards, citing the very thing that Mr. Edwards had emphasized to differentiate himself: that he was trying to avoid attacking his opponents.

"He's the only one I heard so far who hasn't blasted the other candidates," Mr. Buttrey said. "I don't want to hear what the other guy's doing. I want to hear what you're going to do."

With the Iowa voting completed, the candidates move into an exhausting sprint of primaries and caucuses that party officials say should determine a nominee by the beginning of March. It starts with the vote in New Hampshire next Tuesday and continues the following Tuesday, when there are contests in seven states.

And the nomination battle is about to effectively gain two more contestants; General Clark and Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut. Both men skipped the Iowa caucuses, instead spending time in New Hampshire.

With the caucuses starting at 6:30 p.m., the campaigning went on until the last minute. The candidates traveled across the state, restating the appeals that got them here, urging voters to turn out and stopping off to attend celebrations marking Martin Luther King's Birthday.

Campaign headquarters here were bustling with energy and tension, as the campaigns began executing the plans they had put into place long ago to turn out their voters.

"Go out and get more votes — we need to win this place," Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said to a volunteer as he bounded out the door of campaign headquarters. Dr. Dean's headquarters was elbow-room-only: a blur of orange, yellow and red caps. The color of the cap signified the rank of the worker.

As the 6:30 hour approached, volunteers at Dr. Dean's headquarters, many of whom had flown in from out of the state to help out, were assigned to work the telephones, knock once more on doors and drive voters to caucus sites.

Up Locust Street, at Mr. Kerry's campaign headquarters, staff members and workers toiled in the midst of pizza boxes and campaign signs, watched over by an inflatable George Bush doll adorned with a flight suit and a Pinocchio nose.

Mr. Gephardt said he was counting on support from union leaders to drive him to victory this time, as it did when he last ran for president, in 1988.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

Kerry and Edwards 1 and 2, kind of surprising.

[MavKikiNYC]

Dean has always struck me as a bit of a fake. But tonight, after the results of the Iowa caucuses were announced, for the first time he came off as genuine--a genuine loon.

I know it's an emotional time for him, with a lot of disappointment to suppress, but he sounded like a man on the verge of coming unhinged, screaming at the top of his lungs some babbleish about retaking the country and never quitting and yada yada yada. Dean is on a bit of a joy ride, with a gaggle of pie-in-the-sky, head-in-the-clouds, naive Gen Xers holding their feet to his metal.

In the unlikely event that Dean ascends to the Democratic nomination, Republican strategists need do no more than snag a copy of the live feed off of C-Span, and no sane American would ever consider putting this man in charge of anything.

On the other hand, maybe the Dems will decide to de facto concede to Bush before the actual elections, and they'll offer up Dean as a paper mache candidate, choosing not to sully the careers of any of their real guns.

There are legitimate issues that the Democrats need to engage the Republicans on. Let's hope they can find a legitimate candidate to make the case.

[Nash13]

I'd rather have Kerry as president.

Edwards can barely keep it together here as a Senator, so i wouldn't trust that many with the country.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

I'm really not a dem...really not a republican, but then really not a centrist in that certain views I have might seem to lean a fair distance in either direction...but it seems to me, that the Democrats, and especially Dean, need to build a platform other than We're not Bush.

[Nash13]

My family are democrats. I think i'd consider myself a demo, but I would vote for Bush if he was the better candidate over whomever the demo candidate is.

[mercury_rev]

Yup, I had believed Dean would maintain first place, but he's kept shooting himself in the foot the last few weeks. Capturing Saddam was one of the worst things that could happen to his anti-war position.

One of Kerry's campaign organizers, Michael Whouley, is considered a brilliant strategist. His helicopter idea must have worked!

New Hampshire should be interesting....

[Max Power]

I also heard that Gephardt dropped out of the race.

[OutletPass]

That's a VERY interesting result...for Edwards...

I don't have an invested interest in any of these guys...I'm an independent.

Kerry is a one note player ..."I served in Vietnam" and not much else.
Dean is just odd. Tremendously odd.
Gephart is just old...and too midwest...and too "old guard"

If any Dem can win...and that's a VERY open question...they have to be able to take the south..Look at history...LBJ...Carter..and Clinton...all from the South..JFK in 60 was the last Dem president from outside of the South. Edwards placing is significant...very interesting...

Gephardt is gone.

Lieberman will drop out soon...Sharpton and Kucinich, too. That's just 3 with no message and no money.

Kerry will get his butt kicked in the South in 2 weeks...and who really knows about Dean... I wish the Dems could get a coherent message, as Kiki said, but I don't know that it will happen...The right wing web sites are just eating Dean alive tonight...

Wes Clark has had Madonna...but who hasn't. Dem's won't ever elect a general...Does Edwards have game ? In this race, among the Dems only, he may not need it. After all, he's the only southerner....

[veruca salt]

What's classified as a Southerner?
I always thought that Arkansas was Southern..but my US geographic isn't always the best.

Oh now, i look at it, you made reference to Clinton being a Southerner...
Clark is also from Little Rock.

[OutletPass]

Yes, J, Clark is from Arkansas...but the Dems won't elect a military general....

I just watched Kerry's "victory speech" on CNN...and it was a joke...

It was "I saved two guys in Vietnam".....and "I don't really know what to say beyond that" ...but I can BEAT GEORGE BUSH...

The ONLY way that KERRY is ever described is as the "Vietnam Vet" .....

Iowa is very different from the other primaries...they use a very antiquated "Caucus" system, J . I promise you, Kerry won't survice in the south.

One thing was pretty clear, though....most participants were more concerned with the economy and jobs...than with the war.

And that's where the Dems have to go....Clinton ran against Bush on the "It's the economy, stupid" platform. They're going to have to do it again. Even my best Republican friends admit that our economy and job situation just suck.

[OutletPass]

CNN. in their breakdown, said that Kerry got over 44% of the vote from "Senior Citizens"

--- Gee... I bet that will spark a revolution. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[mercury_rev]

Originally posted by: OutletPass
CNN. in their breakdown, said that Kerry got over 44% of the vote from "Senior Citizens"

--- Gee... I bet that will spark a revolution. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

Kerry can't beat Bush on that demographic, since Dub has already co-opted the usual Dem Medicare platform vis-a-vis expanded prescription drug benefits.

[OutletPass]

Mercury...get a sarcasm detector...ok ?

[madape]

From Drudge... humorous


DEAN GOES NUTS

Stinging from his third place finish in Iowa that robbed him of his frontrunner status, Governor Howard Dean tonight gave a red faced concession speech in which he vowed to go all over the country fighting to defeat George Bush. He named the states in which he said his campaign would fight, and as he rolled out the names of the states his face became red, his gestures sharp and angry. For a few moments, it appeared Dean had slipped into an unnatural state...

[Dooby]

Thoughts:

At the end of the day, less than 1,200 people stood up and said they were going to vote for Kerry. Almost all of them were white. Many of them were old. Most of them were blue collar or farmers. None of them spoke spanish. In eight days, the attention will be on the white, old, non-spanish speaking residents of New Hampshire. And there aren't many of them, either. Honestly, I think I prefer the old way of picking candidates to this.

Dean looks like a crazy nut. Positively rabid. But this is what a lot of the hard left wanted-somebody willing to walk up to Bush and call him a liar and a murderer and a traitor. Well, guess what? The only kind of person willing to do that is a crazy nut. If they want to support a crazy nut, what does that say about them?

Lieberman's got 8 days. Then he gets pounded in New Hampshire and goes home without endorsing anyone.

Dean goes back to negative campaigning beginning today against both Kerry and Edwards in NH and in SC. But only 50-50, as he tries to increase his positive numbers. Expect Dean to flood NH with Vermont supporters. If Dean can't win NH, he's on the ropes. But he still has so much money, he can drag this out a long time. I get teh impression that he is not spending his money wisely.

If Edwards posts another second place finish in NH, the democratic primary could very well last right up to the convention. Edwards then rolls into SC and can pull in a victory there getting only a single victory but more delegates than Iowa and NH could get Kerry.

Unfortunately for Kerry, he's put himself in a position where he has to win NH. He has no hope in SC. He can't let Dean regain momentum. He can't even risk coming in second.

Clark. As soon as I figure out why he's running, I'll let you know. There are still those saying he's running as a placecard holder for Hillary. Keeping an organization intact through the convention. With each day passing, it is more and more unlikely, but I don't see why Clark is running. His campaign could be over in two weeks.

I literally ran into Gephart leaving my building this summer as I was coming in. I guess he was trolling for money. Shorter than he looks on TV.

The next best thing to a Dean candidacy for Bush is a long, drawn out primary.

[madape]

'YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!'

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: OutletPass
One thing was pretty clear, though....most participants were more concerned with the economy and jobs...than with the war.

And that's where the Dems have to go....Clinton ran against Bush on the "It's the economy, stupid" platform. They're going to have to do it again. Even my best Republican friends admit that our economy and job situation just suck.

Oh really? At least some of the "experts" seem to disagree...

from Deloitte research:

Election Year Economics

"You can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time but you can not fool all of the people all of the time" Abe Lincoln

Old Abe was an optimist. Just ask Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign manager, James Carville who made something of a name for himself back then by insisting that the election was all about the economy. His now famous epitaph, "It’s the economy stupid", pretty much summed up his view of the election. Looking back over the past 14 election cycles, the economy plays an important but not always decisive role. While the economy may not help the incumbent, the incumbents have become increasingly effective in helping the economy, making sure it is not a liability for re-election. Since 1960, real economic growth has been above the thirty year average in 8 out of 10 election years. The 2004 election will be no different. It doesn’t happen often, maybe once or twice in a generation. But occasionally the economy booms. This is one of those times.

You can register and download the full report here.

[madape]

I'd also like to add that more people have jobs right now than at any other time in U.S. history.

From the Department of Labor's household employment survey....



As of December, over 138 Million people have jobs.

OP - When did you talk to your "conservative" friends? six months ago?

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: madape
'YAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!'

Anybody who hasn't heard this tirade needs to give it a listen. He sounds like Macho Man Randy Savage or Steve Austin. It might of been OK if he hadn't added the scream at the end.

[MavKikiNYC]

He sounded like a 5th-grader in geography class, hepped up on ritalin and Skittles, reciting the names of the states in no particular order.

The Dean people have been VERY quiet the last couple of days.

Republican operatives are no doubt procuring Dean's mental health records as I type this.

[MikeB]

Originally posted by: madape
I'd also like to add that more people have jobs right now than at any other time in U.S. history.

From the Department of Labor's household employment survey....



As of December, over 138 Million people have jobs.

This is a misleading statistic. There are also more people total in the US than at any time in history. Look into how many are unemployed...not just filing unemployment but those that have all but given up trying to find a job. Then look at the underemployed and see that a good portion of people that are employed cannot pay their bills. The American dream is not working the drive thru at Mickey Ds and just scraping by. It is about the economy...stats will not make people who can't find decent work think all is well.

[Dooby]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
He sounded like a 5th-grader in geography class, hepped up on ritalin and Skittles, reciting the names of the states in no particular order.

The Dean people have been VERY quiet the last couple of days.

Republican operatives are no doubt procuring Dean's mental health records as I type this.

Actually, they are desperately trying to prop Dean up at this point.

BTW, Dean has admitted to having anziety attacks and occasionally taking "sleeping pills" to combat his anxiety attacks. Since he and his wife are both doctors, there probably is no record of what he took, but it is possible he took some serious stuff.

[madape]

This is a misleading statistic. There are also more people total in the US than at any time in history. Look into how many are unemployed...not just filing unemployment but those that have all but given up trying to find a job. Then look at the underemployed and see that a good portion of people that are employed cannot pay their bills. The American dream is not working the drive thru at Mickey Ds and just scraping by. It is about the economy...stats will not make people who can't find decent work think all is well.

Just an example about how much statistics can manipulated to make political points. Remember that the next time you hear about the "3 million jobs" that have been lost under the watchful eye of Bush.

[Nicky31]

I thought it was funny that the only candidate that was in agreement with the war in Iraq was Richard Gephardt, and looked how he ended up in the polls.

The shocker I hear is that Howard Dean was suppose to be shoein to win Iowa..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

[MikeB]

Mad

I only believe what I see. I know that there is propaganda for both sides/all sides going 24/7. 99% of it is BS meant to scare people into doing whatever the propaganda is supporting. I don't listen to the garbage. I do however know the very real problems of finding worthwhile employment in the Dallas area. That is MY hot topic...not Iraq, not athletes and steroids(what was that sh*t about anyway? I mean in the State of the Union...kinda creepy)....I need to know that they have a plan and what it is so I can see if I believe it to be worthy...then I will support that candidate.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: Nicky31
I thought it was funny that the only candidate that was in agreement with the war in Iraq was Richard Gephardt, and looked who he ended up in the polls.

The shocker I hear is that Howard Dean was suppose to be shoein to win Iowa..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Oh really? That's funny, because Stepanopolus stated that he found it interesting that the two candidates that did support the war were the big winners.

Kerry speech to Congress before voting on the war measure.

Senator Edwards statement on Iraq resolution

as for Daschle...

Daschle: Iraq plan unacceptable

just look at his determination:

as he tries to turn the war into a political landscape for his own benefit:

Daschle condemns Bush on Iraq debate

There are others if you would like them, but I think I get my point that the ones that did do well in Iowa supported the war resolution.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: MikeB
Mad

I only believe what I see. I know that there is propaganda for both sides/all sides going 24/7. 99% of it is BS meant to scare people into doing whatever the propaganda is supporting. I don't listen to the garbage. I do however know the very real problems of finding worthwhile employment in the Dallas area. That is MY hot topic...not Iraq, not athletes and steroids(what was that sh*t about anyway? I mean in the State of the Union...kinda creepy)....I need to know that they have a plan and what it is so I can see if I believe it to be worthy...then I will support that candidate.

The State of the Union address is not just another candidate address to the public vying for votes for an election. The State of the Union address is a speech given every January to the House regarding the issues (key word here, issues... not issue, but issues) that will be focused on that year by the President of the United States of America. I found the statement on athletes and steroids rather nice. It's about damn time it is addressed. Was that the only part you listened to? Because if so, that is sad. He gave a damn fine speech about his agenda for the coming year. The President made me proud last night. You obviously missed that, and that's sad.

[Nicky31]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Oh really? That's funny, because Stepanopolus stated that he found it interesting that the two candidates that did support the war were the big winners.

Kerry speech to Congress before voting on the war measure.

Senator Edwards statement on Iraq resolution

as for Daschle...

Daschle: Iraq plan unacceptable

just look at his determination:

as he tries to turn the war into a political landscape for his own benefit:

Daschle condemns Bush on Iraq debate

There are others if you would like them, but I think I get my point that the ones that did do well in Iowa supported the war resolution.

Thanks U2, for the info.. I didn't catch the whole Iowa Caucuses campaign. I did watch some political anaylsist's getting interviewed, and their comments were leaning towards my previous comments. It doesn't surprise me they would incorporate the war in Iraq as part of their own agenda for their presidental race. One topic I will be looking for is how they view abortion. That is one of the reasons why I voted for Bush last election..

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: Nicky31
Thanks U2, for the info.. I didn't catch the whole Iowa Caucuses campaign. I did watch some political anaylsist's getting interviewed, and their comments were leaning towards my previous comments. It doesn't surprise me they would incorporate the war in Iraq as part of their own agenda for their presidental race. One topic I will be looking for is how they view abortion. That is one of the reasons why I voted for Bush last election..

You are welcome. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

And I CANT believe you used the 'A' word!!!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[madape]

Originally posted by: MikeB
Mad

I only believe what I see. I know that there is propaganda for both sides/all sides going 24/7. 99% of it is BS meant to scare people into doing whatever the propaganda is supporting. I don't listen to the garbage. I do however know the very real problems of finding worthwhile employment in the Dallas area. That is MY hot topic...not Iraq, not athletes and steroids(what was that sh*t about anyway? I mean in the State of the Union...kinda creepy)....I need to know that they have a plan and what it is so I can see if I believe it to be worthy...then I will support that candidate.

Good point. I thought the president did a very POOR job of communcating an optimistic message on jobs. Clearly it is an area of concern for a lot of Americans. There are plenty of exciting economic numbers released over the past few months that show the job market is improving. I would have liked to have heard Bush convey a positive outlook on jobs. At least he should have shown some empathy towards those frustrated American still looking for work. Instead, I fear his glossing over the issue will continue to frustrate out of work Americans. To them, it is not good enough just to hear Bush say that the job market is improving. So many people have been fed left wing lies about the job market, and have been told repeatedly that it is George Bush's fault they don't have jobs. These people feel like the victims of corporate greed, and they see Bush as catering too much to big business. They just don't trust him. If Bush wants to regain the support of these people, he's going to have to convince them that his tax package is creating jobs. He also needs to instill in them a sense that he is working hard to get them their jobs back. I don't think he did anything to help himself in his SOU.

However, November is just under a year away. There will be plenty of time in the coming year for Bush to convey his message on jobs. More importantly, there will be plenty of time for the job recovery grow into a full fledged job BOOM!

[madape]

I watched the Democratic response to Bush's State of the Union. I must say that it reminded me of one of those boring rides at Disney World. You know, the ones in which animatronic dummies sing happy songs about fairies or pirate ships or some shit. I don't know, something about Pelosi and Daschel's corpse-like makeup, their wide eyed emotionless stares, and how the rest of their faces didn't seem to move when they talked.

I could just imagine those two robots singing "It's a world of corruption. It's a world of fear. Haliburton, Enron make it clear. 500 soldiers dead. Something's wrong with his head. It's a failed administration after all"

(just made that rhyme up, maybe I should register at democraticunderground.com!)

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: madape
I watched the Democratic response to Bush's State of the Union. I must say that it reminded me of one of those boring rides at Disney World. You know, the ones in which animatronic dummies sing happy songs about fairies or pirate ships or some shit. I don't know, something about Pelosi and Daschel's corpse-like makeup, their wide eyed emotionless stares, and how the rest of their faces didn't seem to move when they talked.

I could just imagine those two robots singing "It's a world of corruption. It's a world of fear. Haliburton, Enron make it clear. 500 soldiers dead. Something's wrong with his head. It's a failed administration after all"

(just made that rhyme up, maybe I should register at democraticunderground.com!)

You know what ape? That Pelosi chick... she actually stated in her part that WE were bearing the brunt of the casualties now in Iraq. I didn't think that was true... Do you know if it is? Not that it matters, because the less dead the better, but for her to bring that up as a talking point blew my mind. She is scary.

[kingrex]

Dean may have just sealed his fate with one overly-emotional speech. Instead of sounding commited to his campaign, he came across as someone that should be commited. What a meltdown. Very funny though. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

You know what ape? That Pelosi chick... she actually stated in her part that WE were bearing the brunt of the casualties now in Iraq. I didn't think that was true... Do you know if it is? Not that it matters, because the less dead the better, but for her to bring that up as a talking point blew my mind. She is scary.

Pelosi was hilarious. Really unfortunate for her that the lights were too bright, and she was caught looking like a deer in the headlights. I hardly remember a thing that she said, only that she looked almost as manic as Dean. The comments on C-Span afterward were pretty tacky, though funny--everything from speculation about a bad batch of botox, to a botched facelift.

RE: her casualites comment, although I think she was saying that the U.S. was bearing the brunt of the casualties among COALITION forces, which is almost certainly true, what's her point? Would the deaths be more tolerable to her if the casualties included more French and Germans, and fewer Americans? What a cynical, fraudulent, hypocritical hussie.

The United States is involved in a war, which entails casualties. All of those casualties are regrettable, and deserve the respect for those who sacrifice their lives in the service of their country, and the greater security of the world. I am equally sorry for the casualties suffered by the British, the Spanish the Japanese and all of the other nations participating in the coaltion effort, as well as the deaths suffered by innocent Iraquis, killed in their own country by terrorist from Iraq and other Islamic nations. For that wide-eyed, wild-eyed bitch Pelosi to try to poltiicize ANY deaths to capitalize poltically is the depth of craven demagougery.

[OutletPass]

Actually, U2, you missed my point completely...I'll try again.

1) The "War" issue clearly isn't that important to Americans in terms of this election...so I don't think the Dems are gaining anything by belaboring that.

2) As in most elections, the domestic economy is the big issue.

The point is: If the Dems are going to make this a race...they need to talk about THE important issue...and leave the peripheral issue aside.

In any election, if you don't address what's really MOST important to the American people, you have no chance whatsoever....and that was my point.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: OutletPass
Actually, U2, you missed my point completely...I'll try again.

1) The "War" issue clearly isn't that important to Americans in terms of this election...so I don't think the Dems are gaining anything by belaboring that.

2) As in most elections, the domestic economy is the big issue.

The point is: If the Dems are going to make this a race...they need to talk about THE important issue...and leave the peripheral issue aside.

In any election, if you don't address what's really MOST important to the American people, you have no chance whatsoever....and that was my point.

I got that OP. I was just wondering outloud here on the board whether or not that would be the smartest issue for the Dems to focus on.

[sike]

Originally posted by: Max Power
I also heard that Gephardt dropped out of the race.

and cried like a baby....pretty funny
john stewart had some funny crap on the daily show last night on this....anyone catch it?

[OutletPass]

It may not be, U2, but I don't know that they have much choice.

I still think that it will be the issue that most Americans are concerned with...but I don't know if the Dems can get into this race at all. I'm pretty skeptical about that.

Dean may have just killed himself with his Madape imitation...Kerry can't win in the South...nobody knows who the hell was Clark is...Edwards may sneak up...but the others are all just dwarfs...Totally unexciting candidates...to me.

I don't see this as a race at all yet...and I kind of doubt that it will ever become one...unless some unforeseen VERY dramatic events occur.

[Dooby]

Dean may have just killed himself with his Madape imitation

Genius.

I think my earlier statements said it best. The left wingers thought they wanted someone who expressed their anger. And Dean was catering to it. Now, as it gets closer, they are rethinking that.

According to Drudge, internal polling is showing Kerry opening up a 10 point lead in a day and a half over Dean.

I love the Drudge Report. At this point, he is basically running the democrats' opposition research unfiltered. The Edwards stuff will be fun to read all week. The obly question is who is putting it out there? Is it Kerry or Dean or Clark? Or is it Bush?