Mavs register interest in Kings' Martin

[Zki41]

I think getting any guard who is clearly superior to Jason Terry will improve Jason Terry's game when both guards are on the court. Lowering Terry on the pecking order will make him less of a priority for opposing defenses, allowing Terry to find (and hopefully have time time to shoot more accurately) better shots.

A line up with Kidd/Terry/Martin (not to mention Dirk) would spread the floor quite a bit. All four are a threat from 3-point range. Kidd is enough of a threat that teams will get punished if they leave him completely opened. This will help cutters immensely.

[Dirkenstien]

Yeah, Brand would immediately become our best low post option on offense and would probably be as good as or better than Damp on D. Brand is physically very strong and with that crazy wingspan he could his own down low.

With Iggy/Brand we improve our defense and offense across the board. We also get some depth in the front line if we hold on to Damp, and we still have the DUST chip for the off-season

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

Yeah, Brand would immediately become our best low post option on offense and would probably be as good as or better than Damp on D. Brand is physically very strong and with that crazy wingspan he could his own down low.

With Iggy/Brand we improve our defense and offense across the board. We also get some depth in the front line if we hold on to Damp, and we still have the DUST chip for the off-season

Elton Brand is not a center. He absolutely not even remotely capable of giving this team what Damp does defensively.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Elton Brand is not a center. He absolutely not even remotely capable of giving this team what Damp does defensively.

Brand may not be a true center, but he can certainly be a viable option at that position as a back up and I believe he could be just as effective as Damp on the defensive end. He has the tools and he has the instincts, the only thing he lacks at that position is height but with his rediculous standing reach he makes up for it.

[Kidd Karma]

Interesting headline on this site:

http://rototimes.com/nba/news.php?tq...news&nid=49676

Mavs looking to unload Howard
The Mavericks are dangling Josh Howard as trade bait, according to ESPN.
Our View: Injury prone and often in trouble off-the-court, it's not surprising that the Mavs would want to unload Howard. Of course, those are the same reasons many teams might not want to acquire him. Regardless, Dallas' three top targets appear to be Kevin Martin, Andre Iguodala and Caron Butler. Stay tuned.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Interesting headline on this site:

http://rototimes.com/nba/news.php?tq...news&nid=49676

SWEET.

[bobatundi]

I don't think Brand can defend as well as Damp...but he would be an upgrade over Gooden. He could provide quality minutes at the backup 4 & 5 spots, maybe 20-30 minutes a game backing Damp & Dirk. Versatile enough to play alongside either of them, giving more substitution flexibility.

[chumdawg]

Sounds like this team is getting ready to get serious!!

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Sounds like this team is getting ready to get serious!!

Yep.

I've been in favor of a Martin for Howard swap for a while now. I don't think the Mavs can afford to include Gooden unless they are certain he's coming back or have another plan for backup center, because the Mavs are already questionable behind Damp at center with Gooden here. If you could make it Howard/Barea for Martin, I'm MUCH more optimistic about the playoffs. Martin is EXACTLY the sort of second option on offense this team has needed for a while. He can get his own shot, create for others, and shoot the lights out.

[ReDirkulous Tyme]

Just read this article on espndallas.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...ory?id=4848601

I would personally LOVE to get Kevin Martin here for either Jason Terry or Josh Howard. He is the perfect player for the mavs, at 6-7 playing shooting guard he provides size, quickness, shooting, and has the driving/slashing ability. If we kept either Josh or Jason then this could be a piece, in my opinion, at finally putting the Mavs at the Contender status, along with the Lakers, Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland. The thought of JKidd, Kmart, Marion, Dirk, and Damp all on the floor gives me wet dreams....it has been ever since I first saw Martin.

[left texas]

This is already in another thread.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by left texas

This is already in another thread.

[jthig32]

People wanting Iguodala over Martin confuses me. His best assets are duplicated by Marion. If you're trying to acquire a shooting guard, why are you getting one with the offensive skill set of a small forward?

If we hadn't gotten Marion I'd be all over trying to get Iguodala. But with Marion? Give me the guy that shoots the lights out from long range AND gets to the free throw line.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by jthig32

People wanting Iguodala over Martin confuses me. His best assets are duplicated by Marion. If you're trying to acquire a shooting guard, why are you getting one with the offensive skill set of a small forward?

If we hadn't gotten Marion I'd be all over trying to get Iguodala. But with Marion? Give me the guy that shoots the lights out from long range AND gets to the free throw line.

Iguodala is a better scorer, passer and is more athletic than Marion. Martin would be great, but his lack of defense and strength kinda worry me.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iguodala is a better scorer, passer and is more athletic than Marion. Martin would be great, but his lack of defense and strength kinda worry me.

Ok, but why does it matter that he's a better scorer than Marion? So is Josh. The point is that the team already has two people playing a lot of minutes whose primary contribution is defense. Kidd is another player who brings quality defense.

This team's biggest need is offense, not defense. So I don't see the focus on Iguodala. He would represent a very marginal improvement offensively.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ok, but why does it matter that he's a better scorer than Marion? So is Josh. The point is that the team already has two people playing a lot of minutes whose primary contribution is defense. Kidd is another player who brings quality defense.

This team's biggest need is offense, not defense. So I don't see the focus on Iguodala. He would represent a very marginal improvement offensively.

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

I probably agree that Iguodala might be the slightly better player overall. But Kevin Martin is one of the best pure scorers in the NBA. And he's not just a scorer, he's a very pure shooter. I can't imagine why he would have difficulty fitting into any offense. Comparing him to Richard Jefferson doesn't make any sense.

Defense and finishing on the break is not what we need. We need a real, true second scoring option.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Iggy is just the better player. Martin is injury prone and is more of a risk to not fit in well here. You see what is happening with RJ over in SA, that could happen with Kmart. I could just see him not gelling well with this team.
Iggy is always going to be able to play defense and finish on the break no matter what system he is in. I would like both, because both are better than Josh, but if I had to choose one give me Iggy

I see your point, but Iggy excels mostly when you're running. But Kmart takes his man and gets to the line in the half court as well. How do you generate offense with Iggy come playoffs when most good teams lock down and play Lock down, grind it out half court D.

On the flip side, you could also argue how do you lock down teams in the half court with a SG that doesn't play applaudible D as in Kmarts case.

It's a give and take. If you look at Kmarts numbers, this guy has multiple games where he lights several contending teams up for absurd numbers

[Maverick4124]

Offensively, I would be open to bringing in Martin. He would take some heat off of Dirk. I remember Dirk complained a while ago how he's tired of having to do all the scoring. That would also make Dirk a little more fresh for the Playoffs, which counts. Defensively, idk about Martin.

If Martin is unattainable and it had to come between Iggy and Butler, it's tough, but I would go with Iggy.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...iguodan01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...butleca01.html

[pepe]

Interesting....I took sometime to pounder the pros and cons of Martin, Butler and Iggy before I posted. I took a look at the adjusted plus and minus for each one for the last 3 years and Iggy and Butler clearly have the better numbers.

Iggy 10.52
Butler 9.23
Martin -3.44

My heart thinks that Martin will be the best offensive option but the fact that he is often injured and his FG% have dropped in the last 2 years made me reluctant to consider him the best option.

Butler is perhaps the easy to adquire taking into consideration that the Wizards are looking to shed payroll and will not be asking the Mavs to take any more additional long term contracts, I just don't know if Caron is truly a SG capable of defending the other teams SG.

Iggy is not the offensive player that Martin is but overall IMO the guy is the best player of the 3 a true SG with great handles, good passer and rebounder and a top perimeter defender a combo of Marion and Iggy will give the Mavs without any doubt the best wing defense in the league, also the guy is only 25, seen to be improving every year and is a respectable 45-46 FG% scorer. Iggy is also the kind of player that teams will be interested to couple with the Dust Chip in case the Mavs decide to go for a blockbuster in the offseason. The issue is what the Mavs will be willing to accept as far as additional contracts, the only way I see Iggy leaving the 76ers is either with Daly or Brand and that is when things get murky.

All things considered Caron looks to be the easiest to adquire and I will not be dissapointed if JHO is all it takes.

But my wish list number one option is Iggy

[quietsavant]

Double post.

[quietsavant]

KMart- has the ability to take over games with his array of scoring. Can shoot the lights out from the perimeter and beyond the arc. Much better shooter than josh will ever be, much better slasher and willing to put his body on the line. Working with JKidd can only further enhance his talents.
weakness: listed at 185lbs, thus his knack for doing just what we want him to do, makes him injury prone as teams try and send a message.

conclusion: with kmart, we will get out of the gates running and do so fast. Dirk becomes better with someone as capable of scoring as kmart around. Everyone is opened up because of him, and the other teams, SGs are not going to be sitting around on D, they will be in foul trouble trying to take Kmart.

Iggy- This guy is that physical SG. Not much finesse here, this guy is a tweener lebron as far as his physical game taking it to the rim. He knows one speed: KICKASS and then take names. He's cuts in the perimeter and wants to send a message.

Downsides: he's not a pure shooter, so we are looking at a Josh howard type of shooter here, slighty better. He's not as injury prone, but his best contribution may come from him going to the line but not so much from his shooting. A lot of people forget he was and still does play SF for Philly the majority of the time.

Butler: FTs FTs FTs.. the guy is not a SG by any means. he's a SF and gets you buckets by posting up his man and getting those And1s. He's a pretty good shooter and can guard the bigger 2 guards out there. Very Very tough.

downside: how do you rationalize a marion butler pair at the wings?

[badfish22]

Im hoping all these rumors between the Mavs and Kings maybe make the Sixers make up their minds a little faster. Theres a rumor that they have been considering trading Iggy by himself for cap relief.

[quietsavant]

When all is said and done, there must be a reason why the FO chose to go after Kmart, so convincingly. I put faith in Nellie

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by quietsavant

When all is said and done, there must be a reason why the FO chose to go after Kmart, so convincingly. I put faith in Nellie

Nellie? You mean Donnie? There can only be one Nellie.

[quietsavant]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Nellie? You mean Donnie? There can only be one Nellie.

freudian slip

[Nowitzki4President]

I'm not saying it's likely to happen, nor that it should happen. But it is completely possible for us to get two of the three players on our radar. Of our tradeable expiring bait, we have JHo, Gooden, Singleton, Barea, and Ross. That's a combined 18.9 million worth of expirings. Martin is 9.6, Iggy is 12.2, and Butler is 9.7.

We'd be able to do a Josh for one of the player, and a package of Gooden, Barea, Ross/Singleton for another. Or just figure out the other combinations to get 2 of the 3. Take this for example: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=yjlpuak

That would make:

Damp/Gooden (after the 30 days)
Dirk/TT/Marion
Iggy/Marion
Martin/Terry
Kidd/RoddyB

I love Barea, but this would let Roddy get some minutes. Sadly, I don't think RC is too high on that idea though. We'd also be moving Marion to the bench, which I don't see as bad, because usually vets love to come off the bench, especially since that would match him up against a lot of the reserve guys on other teams, who I think he would dominate. Not to mention a combo of Iggy and Marion defending the dangerous swingmen on other teams excites me.

Just some food for thought.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by jthig32

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:



If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

Then I don't see us making any moves including Dalembert or Brand. That means those 3 players are the only ones in our sights, no cancerous tumors of contracts coming with a talented player.

[jthig32]

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

At some point Marc updated his article with the following:



If the Mavs aren't willing to take on a bad contract then I think the only chance to get Martin is to include Roddy. And I would do that...I think.

I suppose the Kings could be really desperate to unload salary, but I'd have to think someone else would step up and offer salary relief AND some talent for a player of Martin's caliber.

I agree, but I don't think the Kings will really want Beaubois.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I agree, but I don't think the Kings will really want Beaubois.

I dunno. If they trade Martin they're conceding that Evans is not a PG. And Udrih is certainly not a PG you're going to build around. Seems like a nice fit to me.

Why don't you think they'd want him?

[RoddyB#3]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver.../_/id/4665036/

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by RoddyB#3

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver.../_/id/4665036/

UPDATE: One source close to the situation said Friday that the Mavs would have no interest in a Martin deal if the Kings insisted they take on an additional player with a long-term contract such as Nocioni or Udrih.

But if Carroll was part of the deal... then maybe??

[Dirkenstien]

Bottom line is we have to be willing to take back some contracts if we want to improve and not unload young talent like Roddy.

[mac222b]

i bet we're willing to take back bad contracts for the right player. they're just trying to strengthen their bargaining position. there is obviously no way we get Martin or Iggy without getting back bad contracts or giving up Roddy

[mavsfan4lyfe201]

yeah we def dont wana take on udrih's contract. hes beat.

nocioni could be a good bench player, i wouldnt want him if were taking back martin

i love his game but hes injury prone, so i wouldnt want nocioni coming back to us IMO.

hence why iggy is our best bet before the deadline...

[Nowitzki4President]

The nba rumor central section on espn.com has an article on kevin martin. Anyone got insider?

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

The nba rumor central section on espn.com has an article on kevin martin. Anyone got insider?

It's old news.

The Dallas Mavericks are watching the Kevin Martin-Tyreke Evans backcourt situation with the Sacramento Kings and are willing to trade Josh Howard for Martin.

Marc Stein, writing for ESPNDallas.com writes: "Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com that Dallas -- reluctant until recently to make Josh Howard available in trade discussions -- is prepared to part with the struggling former All-Star swingman in a deal for Martin. The Kings, though, have been telling teams that they are not ready to field offers for Martin, determined to give his fledging backcourt partnership with hot-shot rookie Tyreke Evans an extended period of evaluation."

Stein also reports the Mavs could join the bidding for Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala and Washington's Caron Butler.

Previously, there's been rumblings of a Jose Calderon for Martin swap, but that has been widely panned.

[grndmstr_c]

Iguodala remains my preference as well, but if a deal comes up for either him or Martin that doesn't destabilize the frontcourt the Mavs should probably take it.

Udrih is overpaid, but taking on a contract like his might well prove to be the price the Mavs have to pay to meet what is looking increasingly like a dire need to upgrade.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Iguodala remains my preference as well, but if a deal comes up for either him or Martin that doesn't destabilize the frontcourt the Mavs should probably take it.

Udrih is overpaid, but taking on a contract like his might well prove to be the price the Mavs have to pay to meet what is looking increasingly like a dire need to upgrade.

Interesting. Is it just because Iguodala is the better overall player?

I remain unconvinced that he provides enough of an offensive upgrade to make any kind of real difference to this team the way it's currently constructed.

Last night was a perfect example of how desperately this team needs a real second scorer that is not dependent on Dirk to draw attention or Kidd to set him up for easy buckets. And I just don't think Iguodala is that guy.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Interesting. Is it just because Iguodala is the better overall player?

I remain unconvinced that he provides enough of an offensive upgrade to make any kind of real difference to this team the way it's currently constructed.

Last night was a perfect example of how desperately this team needs a real second scorer that is not dependent on Dirk to draw attention or Kidd to set him up for easy buckets. And I just don't think Iguodala is that guy.

The thing with Iggy is that while he's clearly not in Martin's class as a scorer, and I don't believe that he's a guy you can look to to carry the scoring load on a consistent basis, history suggests he'd be capable of giving the team at least something in the range of 18 ppg on 55% true shooting, even if he didn't see an uptick in his scoring efficiency playing with Kidd and Dirk.

That, by itself, would help given how poorly (and little) Josh has been playing. But Iguodala (unlike JHo and Martin) is an outstanding passer at the SG/SF spots, and because of that I think he'd help the Mavs get more out of the weapons that they do have.

And as much as I do favor balance, Iguodala is also in a class by himself (among those floated in rumors, at least) on the defensive end. The Mavs' defense has been less suspect than their offense in general, but they still have room to improve in that area and he would help there.

All that said, I think I could still be talked into Martin being the guy the Mavs should focus on, because he is an incredibly gifted scorer, if it weren't for the injury history. It's just so important to be able to count on your top guys being available. Josh's inability to stay healthy (or perhaps his unwillingness to tough it out) has just killed his usefulness to this team, and I'd hate to see that happen with the guy the Mavs get to replace him.