4 on 5 ball = wasted season. We need a MAN in the middle. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

erdubya · 02-13-2009, 10:36 AM

Suddenly the Shaq possibility aint looking so bad.

Damp being the biggest player on the floor last night showed he had the smallest heart (and brain). Under the goal with noone around him, he gets the ball and immediately passes it out the perimeter... If he's not doing that, he gets the ball in the front of the rim and instead of dunking, he goes up with a weak ass layup and doesnt even draw iron. Not to mention that lion's roar after dunking and hanging on the rim like he really did something spectacular... (by the way, does anybody even hang on the rim like that anymore? I mean since 2005??)

Yeah he's a big body, a capable rebounder (when he wants to rebound), an average shot blocker (when he wants to), and a good space filler...

But we need and should demand so much more from our 5 position.

TNT · 02-13-2009, 10:39 AM

word!

tcat075 · 02-13-2009, 10:42 AM

I'll quote myself from the other thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Reason we couldn't score?

Damp and Kidd played a combined 80 minutes. In those 80 minutes, they scored a combined 7 points on 2/11 shooting.

Completely agree. Damp can't score...if only we could combine Bass's shooting, dunking and energy with Damp's rebounding and defense...

DavidDaMonkey · 02-13-2009, 10:43 AM

I would love Shaq as much as the next guy, but Dampier is not the problem with this team. Not enough so to start a new thread on a beaten horse.

Also how can you complain about not having any heart, but then also complain about the roar and the rim hanging (which I thought was a tacky call).

Just FYI, the starting center for the Celtics last night got 0 points. They are the current NBA champions. You can win without a dominant 5. It's not as easy, but it doesn't break a team to not have one. I will be singing for joy when Damp is the biggest problem this team has.

tcat075 · 02-13-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Just FYI, the starting 5 for the Celtics last night got 0 points.

The 5 starters scored 0 points?

DavidDaMonkey · 02-13-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I'll quote myself from the other thread:

Completely agree. Damp can't score...if only we could combine Bass's shooting, dunking and energy with Damp's rebounding and defense...

I don't think a player like that exists currently in this league. I think actually the closest player to fitting that description is KG.

DavidDaMonkey · 02-13-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

The 5 starters scored 0 points?

Ha, good call. I'll fix that.

DirkFTW · 02-13-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I will be singing for joy when Damp is the biggest problem this team has.

Well... he sort of is since he weighs 265 lbs.

I too would welcome the Shaq trade. Maybe Shaq can show Damp some moves like the dunk.

dude1394 · 02-13-2009, 11:58 AM

Damp's weaknesses are not nearly as big a problem as Josh's are. Damp still does the things that you expect from him when he's in there in the fourth. Setting picks, rebounding, defending...

Josh however once the fourth quarter rolls around is...gone. He all of a sudden becomes bruce bowen but doesn't play defense nearly as well. He's just not a part of the team at the end because he can't be trusted to be..

Why isn't josh/dirk running a two-man game? Wouldn't that make some sense? But josh's inability to make the correct play and inability to draw fouls makes him irrelevant in the fourth.

erdubya · 02-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Also how can you complain about not having any heart, but then also complain about the roar and the rim hanging (which I thought was a tacky call).

Doesn't take heart to do dumb shyt. Roaring like the king of the jungle after an open dunk as if he made a spectacular/game-changing play = dumb shyt. Hanging on the rim for no apparent reason = dumb shyt. It's simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Just FYI, the starting center for the Celtics last night got 0 points. They are the current NBA champions. You can win without a dominant 5. It's not as easy, but it doesn't break a team to not have one. I will be singing for joy when Damp is the biggest problem this team has.

1. They are the Celtics. 2. They didn't NEED Perkins to score anything.
2a. They already had someone doing damage in the paint.
Yes you can win without a dominant 5, but we aint the 97 Bulls or the 08 Celtics either. Besides, I never expected Damp to be dominant... Just have a fearless attitude, that's it. He's got all the physical tools to be a good center...except for the lack of heart, which nullifies everything else.

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdubya

Doesn't take heart to do dumb shyt. Roaring like the king of the jungle after an open dunk as if he made a spectacular/game-changing play = dumb shyt. Hanging on the rim for no apparent reason = dumb shyt. It's simple.

Personally, I was on my feet roaring like the king of the jungle after Damp threw that down...

Hyping the fans = dumb shyt?

Really???

That was highlight reel material - the foul call was "dumb shyt" (and you damn well know KG wouldn't have been called for it...)

SMC0007 · 02-13-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Well... he sort of is since he weighs 265 lbs.

I too would welcome the Shaq trade. Maybe Shaq can show Damp some moves like the dunk.

AHHH the dunk! It IS a nice move for the advanced player.

Tokey41 · 02-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Damp and Kidd on the same court gives us exactly 3 offensive options. It's not a great feeling, especially when Josh plays the way he did last night or Dirk/Jet have an off night.

Damp is a great defensive center and a fine role player, but putting him on the court with Kidd never really made sense to me in the first place. If we landed Kaman or even Camby then at least we'd have some offensive skills ready to be utilized from Kidd's talents at the 5.

SMC0007 · 02-13-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Personally, I was on my feet roaring like the king of the jungle after Damp threw that down...

Hyping the fans = dumb shyt?

Really???

That was highlight reel material - the foul call was "dumb shyt" (and you damn well know KG wouldn't have been called for it...)

Yeah, I was on my feet too (mentally, as I sat on my couch) when he got that dunk, but I sat the F back down in extreme frustration that he did that. I felt at the time it was a borderline call, but I didn't hate the call as much as I hated that he swung around like that. He was trying to reclaim the momentum but it backfired totally. Perfect example of Damp too, he is almost good but then disappoints. Like a decent song that just lacks a hook/chorus.

Zki41 · 02-13-2009, 12:46 PM

I like the idea of Dampier coming off the bench - but don't want to give up anything to upgrade at the 5. If it's the whole, Kidd for Shaq, Phoenix waives Kidd, we sign Kidd type-deal, then that would be really excellent. Otherwise, keeping Kidd is more important.

Underdog · 02-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

I like the idea of Dampier coming off the bench - but don't want to give up anything to upgrade at the 5. If it's the whole, Kidd for Shaq, Phoenix waives Kidd, we sign Kidd type-deal, then that would be really excellent. Otherwise, keeping Kidd is more important.

Howard/Stack for Shaq/Barnes (or Hill) doesn't strike your fancy?

Personally, I'd make that trade before I'd risk Kidd not coming back (hell, I'd trade Kidd for Baron Davis before I'd take that kind of a chance - unless there was a strongly "collusive" understanding that he'd be back...)

DavidDaMonkey · 02-13-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdubya

Doesn't take heart to do dumb shyt. Roaring like the king of the jungle after an open dunk as if he made a spectacular/game-changing play = dumb shyt. Hanging on the rim for no apparent reason = dumb shyt. It's simple.

Typing dumb shyt = dumb shyt. It's simple.

peppersquad · 02-13-2009, 02:15 PM

Damp is so maddening. The first quarter he's terrible, misses 2 point blank uncontested put backs, couple that with Dirks 2 missed FT and they're only up 4 or 5 instead of 10.

The 2nd quarter he comes in a completely controls the paint, blocking shots, rebounds, dunks.

Then completely disappears in the 2nd half. Awful.

antoinewalker · 02-13-2009, 02:22 PM

we should have accepted baron/kaman for kidd.

peppersquad · 02-13-2009, 02:26 PM

thats retarded.

Bayliss · 02-13-2009, 05:14 PM

Dampier is extremely frustrating but I agree with Dude in that Josh is more of a problem than Dampier. Dampier isn't going to score, but the Mavs EXPECT Josh to score. And when you don't have a guy who you expect to score doesn't... the team struggles mightily.

ty · 02-13-2009, 05:58 PM

People don't realize that there are only SO many good centers out there.

Be grateful.

tcat075 · 02-13-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

People don't realize that there are only SO many good centers out there.

Be grateful.

Not to mention most of those centers are on teams that do not want to trade them.

sike · 02-13-2009, 06:25 PM

We need a large philosopher in the middle...

NYMAVGUY · 02-13-2009, 10:00 PM

The celtic have 3 players in the Dirk caliber. Perkins doesn't need to do anything. Buy the way I would take Perkins over Damp. Just as good and younger. Much more of a upside

Just FYI, the starting center for the Celtics last night got 0 points. They are the current NBA champions. You can win without a dominant 5. It's not as easy, but it doesn't break a team to not have one. I will be singing for joy when Damp is the biggest problem this team has.[/QUOTE]

NYMAVGUY · 02-13-2009, 10:03 PM

The celtics have 3 players in the Dirk caliber. Perkins doesn't need to do anything. Buy the way I would take Perkins over Damp. Just as good and younger. Much more of a upside

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-13-2009, 10:27 PM

We need DIOP back!

eyedentifyme · 02-14-2009, 03:13 AM

The equal value for Josh would be Caron Butler. Maybe a three team deal.

NBA TRADE MACHINE HAD THIS WORKING:

MAVERICKS GET: CARON BUTLER, ANDRE BLATCHE AND CHRIS KAMAN

LA CLIPPERS GET: ERICK DAMPIER, DARIUS SONGAILA AND JERRY STACKHOUSE

WASHINGTON WIZARDS GET: BARON DAVIS, MIKE TAYLOR, AND BRANDON BASS

KIDD/BUTLER/HOWARD/DIRK/KAMAN ; BAREA/TERRY/WRIGHT/BLATCHE/GREEN/WILLIAMS/HOLLINS/SINGLETON/GEORGE

This will strike fear in the West but I know these teams won't do it.

mavsjunkie · 02-14-2009, 05:25 PM

Any big man that can score and defend, and OR a slasher is what this team needs.

Dtownsfinest · 02-14-2009, 08:42 PM

Any big man that can score and defend won't be traded lol. Marcus Camby may be the only exception. Not sure what the Clippers are going to do with him but being they are the Clippers he may be a possibility.

cinemablend · 02-15-2009, 03:52 AM

This is what I was trying to say in the "I Can't Take Any More of Kidd" thread.

I really think you can win a Championsip with Kidd, but to do it you have to surround him with players who can score, since he himself cannot be counted on to score.

The Mavs center position is an offensive dead end, which means at best you're always playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end, and since Josh is useless in the fourth quarter it's 2 on 5 in the fourth.

Get Shaq in here and you get a guy who can do everything Damp can do defensively (and do it better) oh and who can actually score. Then it's not a big deal that Kidd can't score because he'll simply help the other four guys out there with him score. If you can keep Josh and get him, then you're playing 4 on 5. If you have to give up Josh, then at LEAST you're playing 3 on 5 in the fourth quarter, instead of the current 2 on 5. More importantly, you have an inside presence for the first time in Mavs history. You have two lights out shooters in Jet and Dirk, and you've got Shaq for Kidd to make spectacular passes to in the middle. I'd call that a pretty awesome four player group. Kidd dishing the crazy passes, making defensive plays, Dirk and Jet shooting lights out, spreading the floor, and making it easy for Shaq to score at will.

The Mavs need a center who can put the ball in the hoop on a consistent basis. Forget the stupid SG stuff. We have an SG who can score. We need a center.

tcat075 · 02-15-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

The Mavs need a center who can put the ball in the hoop on a consistent basis. Forget the stupid SG stuff. We have an SG who can score. We need a center.

Who is the SG you're talking about that can score? Wright? or Green?

LSMF · 02-15-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdubya

Suddenly the Shaq possibility aint looking so bad.

Damp being the biggest player on the floor last night showed he had the smallest heart (and brain). Under the goal with noone around him, he gets the ball and immediately passes it out the perimeter... If he's not doing that, he gets the ball in the front of the rim and instead of dunking, he goes up with a weak ass layup and doesnt even draw iron. Not to mention that lion's roar after dunking and hanging on the rim like he really did something spectacular... (by the way, does anybody even hang on the rim like that anymore? I mean since 2005??)

Yeah he's a big body, a capable rebounder (when he wants to rebound), an average shot blocker (when he wants to), and a good space filler...

But we need and should demand so much more from our 5 position.

For some reason this made me lmao

Dtownsfinest · 02-15-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

This is what I was trying to say in the "I Can't Take Any More of Kidd" thread.

I really think you can win a Championsip with Kidd, but to do it you have to surround him with players who can score, since he himself cannot be counted on to score.

The Mavs center position is an offensive dead end, which means at best you're always playing 3 on 5 at the offensive end, and since Josh is useless in the fourth quarter it's 2 on 5 in the fourth.

Get Shaq in here and you get a guy who can do everything Damp can do defensively (and do it better) oh and who can actually score. Then it's not a big deal that Kidd can't score because he'll simply help the other four guys out there with him score. If you can keep Josh and get him, then you're playing 4 on 5. If you have to give up Josh, then at LEAST you're playing 3 on 5 in the fourth quarter, instead of the current 2 on 5. More importantly, you have an inside presence for the first time in Mavs history. You have two lights out shooters in Jet and Dirk, and you've got Shaq for Kidd to make spectacular passes to in the middle. I'd call that a pretty awesome four player group. Kidd dishing the crazy passes, making defensive plays, Dirk and Jet shooting lights out, spreading the floor, and making it easy for Shaq to score at will.

The Mavs need a center who can put the ball in the hoop on a consistent basis. Forget the stupid SG stuff. We have an SG who can score. We need a center.

I think there are several dead ins in the lineup. Especially in the 4th quarter. The Mavs can use any of the above. A slasher, a big man that can score and defend(there's like 4 or 5 of those in the league right and most of them are playing Sunday night) or another shooter. The latter is probably of the lesser needs and the big man that can score and defend is going to be impossible to obtain without giving up a player in return that will probably give us another hole to fill. I think the reason everyone brings up the 2 guard that can slash is because its easier to obtain. And it is of a need. This Mavs team has problems securing wins in the 4th quarter because their lineup consists of Dampier, Dirk, Josh, JET and Kidd. Two of those positions you can't even rely on to score. And should we add Josh to that mix since he's MIA in the 4th quarter? The OP calls it 4 on 5 ball but i'd go even further and say its more like 3 on 5 and maybe even 2 on 5 depending on if Josh is showing up in the 4th. Dirk and JET are strictly jumpshooters. They're not going to slash to the basket which this season hasn't been too bad because they've been money. The jumpshots will stop falling and when they do what will this Mavs team do to score?

Quote:

Who is the SG you're talking about that can score? Wright? or Green?

Pretty sure he's talking about JET.

tcat075 · 02-15-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Pretty sure he's talking about JET.

*Head slap*