Official Rangers off season thread

[mavspwnage]

Originally Posted by mkat

would love to have Martinez here. He could sub in at C and 1B. Give me Zack Greinke too, please.

Our playoff record was 8-8, not 8-9...

[LonghornDub]

Wash getting 2nd for Manager of the Year is an absolute screw job.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Wash getting 2nd for Manager of the Year is an absolute screw job.

In fairness, some of the 5 runner-up finishes that Gardenhire received were screw jobs as well. Both were deserving...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

In fairness, some of the 5 runner-up finishes that Gardenhire received were screw jobs as well. Both were deserving...

Sure. But Wash was more deserving, IMO. No disrespect to Gardenhire.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Sure. But Wash was more deserving, IMO. No disrespect to Gardenhire.

gotta disagree. Gardenhire lost his top flight closer before the year began, and Morneau too, and they still won 95 games...and they don't really have much of a pitching staff either.

[LonghornDub]

Apologies folks. I wasn't keeping in mind that the awards are voted on at season's end. I always forget that, since in other instances where that's the case (e.g., NBA MVP), the award is given out well before the championship is decided.

Based on regular-season results, I'm more than fine with Gardenhire. I will say I don't think Francona was in the top three, though. It's Gardenhire, Maddon, Wash, then everyone else.

[Murphy3]

I have no problem with it. I might have put Francona up there with those two as well.

[mavspwnage]

If the Red Sox had made the playoffs, Francona would have probably been unanimous as MOY. It's hard to deny what he did with a makeshift team. Still had 89 wins.

[Male30Dan]

I would rather keep Lee and would rather trade for Grienke if we lose Lee, but this would be a great consolation prize...

[Murphy3]

Newberg's most recent report said that the club would most likely move Ogando into the rotation ahead of Feliz. I would agree with that decision.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Newberg's most recent report said that the club would most likely move Ogando into the rotation ahead of Feliz. I would agree with that decision.

I need to see more of him in the majors with runners on... as we all know, he craps his britches with other guys' runners. And he hardly allowed enough of his own runners for me to form an opinion there. But I love the guy. Around the office, we say he looks like the kind of guy who would knife your ass without thinking twice.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

I need to see more of him in the majors with runners on... as we all know, he craps his britches with other guys' runners. And he hardly allowed enough of his own runners for me to form an opinion there. But I love the guy. Around the office, we say he looks like the kind of guy who would knife your ass without thinking twice.

I think it might be hard to distinguish whether the problem is entering with runner's on, or entering in the middle of an inning. The two generally go hand in hand. I read a few articles that seemed to intimate that the Rangers felt like it was more the latter than the former.

[LonghornDub]

Hamilton named AL MVP. No surprise.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...?slug=ap-almvp

[sike]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Hamilton named AL MVP. No surprise.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...?slug=ap-almvp

But still




!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mavspwnage]

Hamilton clinched the award on August 13. From that day forward, everyone else was fighting for second place.

[Male30Dan]

Just throwing this out there (cough, cough)... Arbitration offered to Frankie and he is likely to accept. Stories out there suggesting this means Feliz will get a shot at the rotation.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Just throwing this out there (cough, cough)... Arbitration offered to Frankie and he is likely to accept. Stories out there suggesting this means Feliz will get a shot at the rotation.

Frankie coming back certainly would make it more likely, but I'd still say it's a pretty safe bet that Feliz stays in the bullpen.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Frankie coming back certainly would make it more likely, but I'd still say it's a pretty safe bet that Feliz stays in the bullpen.

In fairness, didn't you also think it was a pretty safe bet that Frankie was gone?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

In fairness, didn't you also think it was a pretty safe bet that Frankie was gone?

No.

Frankie's far from a guarantee to be back. His injury might have lowered his value to the point that he accepts arbitration, but if not I think he's gone.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

No.

I could have worded the question better, but it is clear you were leaning toward the "He is leaving" camp. You put a support valve in there, but you were leaning.

[jthig32]

Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.

[muzak]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.

Same here. He was one of the top closers in all of baseball. Why mess with a good thing?

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well sure but leaning isn't the same as "safe bet".

FWIW, there does seem to be even more momentum building on moving Feliz to the rotation. We'll see. I think it's a mistake if they do it.

Some don't view it as a mistake as far as pulling him out is concerned... Him succeeding as a starter is yet to be seen of course, and Joe doesn't touch on that.

Hell, it could be argued that we could be much improved with Francisco/Ogando as the closer, Greinke in Lee's spot via trade, Feliz in Hunter's spot, and an abundance of offense brought in with the money we were going to spend on Lee IF he leaves (maybe Dunn for DH AND someone like Konerko). I hope we sign Lee, trade for Greinke, AND get one big bat in here, but I also realize this isn't being played out on PS3.

We shall see indeed...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Some don't view it as a mistake...

Hell, it could be argued that we could be much improved with Francisco/Ogando as the closer, Greinke in Lee's spot via trade, Feliz in Hunter's spot, and an abundance of offense brought in with the money we were going to spend on Lee IF he leaves (maybe Dunn for DH AND someone like Konerko). I hope we sign Lee, trade for Greinke, AND get one big bat in here, but I also realize this isn't being played out on PS3.

We shall see indeed...

I don't really see how JoPos' article (which was a great read btw) works as an admonition that Feliz should be a starter. It just argues that he should be used differently, and I agree.

BBTIA had some quotes from Jason Parks about Feliz this morning. I really respect Parks' opinions of the Rangers, as he's a legitimate scout that spends a lot of time following the Rangers. Here was his take:

"Feliz threw 80 percent fastballs last year. He barely touched the curveball, which used to be his best [secondary pitch]. At this point, his fastball is solid, but his curveball is underdeveloped, so it will take time to refine. His transition wouldn't be as smooth as people think it would be. He would need half a season in AAA, if not more.

"I'm not sure it's the right time, and I know his stuff isn't ready for two, three, or four passes through a lineup. Big league hitters will eventually adjust to fastball-heavy pitchers after seeing it a few times. His change-up is very good, but he deploys it in a closer's sequence, and he goes to it more against left-handed hitters, obviously. How does that change-up play off a fastball that isn't 98 mph? How do those pitches pair after multiple passes? Where does the curveball fit in? Development doesnt just happen because the fanbase thinks its a good idea. The Rangers know Feliz's arm. They will make the right call. Fans aren't privy to the right info. Period."

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't really see how JoPos' article (which was a great read btw) works as an admonition that Feliz should be a starter. It just argues that he should be used differently, and I agree.

BBTIA had some quotes from Jason Parks about Feliz this morning. I really respect Parks' opinions of the Rangers, as he's a legitimate scout that spends a lot of time following the Rangers. Here was his take:

I edited my post 10 minutes before you posted this - see my edit. I understood it didn't really suggest Feliz should be a starter - only that he isn't nearly as important as a closer and could/should be used differently.

Regarding Jason - sounds like a cocky little shit, but that's just my take on his post. I understand he throws fastball heavy, but I would think that is what is required out of a closer. Didn't Washington and Maddux tell him to go after guys instead of nibbling? That wasn't all fastball nibbling early on. My point is that he CAN throw the other pitches but simply hasn't because that type of a role doesn't (shouldn't) get too fancy - if you have overpowering stuff for 3 hitters, you get them out with it.

Bottom line, while there would most definitely be a transition period (though I think his talent would help jump that gap better than most), what better time than now. Why waste prime years of him as a starter when there are other guys available that can or even have been successful at his role?

To me it is an absolute no brainer to give him the same chance we gave CJ. IF he proves in spring training he can't handle it, fine, keep him as the closer (at least until the next year when I will want to try again), but damn it - let the kid try. How many thought CJ would do this well?

*crickets*

*crickets*

[kg_veteran]

Just read through the past couple of pages in this thread.

Feliz as a starter would be a mistake. He doesn't have enough pitches to make that work.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Just read through the past couple of pages in this thread.

Feliz as a starter would be a mistake. He doesn't have enough pitches to make that work.

Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.

He has enough - he just doesn't currently trust them enough. He has a very nice changeup and you can just ask ARod about his curveball. You remember the one right? The one that took us to the World Series? There was also talk of him working on a 2-seamer. A full training camp stretched out and asked to rely on more than just that standard fastball would do him wonders. If he could start mixing in movement and speed regularly, this guy would be a Fing beast (more than he already is).

Regarding Borbon, well, I disagree. He is the superior defender out of those two but he isn't as good as some in here make him out to be.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

He has enough - he just doesn't currently trust them enough. He has a very nice changeup and you can just ask ARod about his curveball. You remember the one right? The one that took us to the World Series? There was also talk of him working on a 2-seamer. A full training camp stretched out and asked to rely on more than just that standard fastball would do him wonders. If he could start mixing in movement and speed regularly, this guy would be a Fing beast (more than he already is).

Right now, Feliz has two pitches. I'm sure he could develop into a starter, but I think it's an iffy proposition for next year and a bad decision given his performance as a closer.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Also, I disagree with the assertion that Borbon is superior to D. Murphy defensively.

What is your basis for this? The Rangers certainly think so.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by jthig32

What is your basis for this? The Rangers certainly think so.

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, imo, Borbon has a lot more than a step on Murphy. He's a lot faster than Murphy. Murphy is nothing more than an emergency option in CF due to his lack of range.

Last year Murphy certainly had a good enough year to start ahead of Borbon if we're talking left field. I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, but regardless I want Borbon in the lineup because I don't want Hamilton in center.

FWIW, Borbon was ranked at the sixth best CF in baseball by the Fielding Bible, which is quickly becoming a very respected fielding assessment/award. And it's not just the geeky nerd stats either (Dan). It's voted on by a panel of people, including Peter Gammon and Joe Posnaski. One of the voters is also a group of video scouts that breaks down every play of every game for the entire season.

So there is some sentiment out there amongst the general baseball populous that Borbon is a very good defender.

Using your eyes on television can be a difficult way to guage defense, especially outfield defense. Mike Rhyner declared Nelson Cruz to be the worst defensive outfielder the Rangers had ever had a couple years ago. Of course maybe he's just a moron.

Anyway, bottom line, you won't find very many people in scouting circles to support the argument that Murphy and Borbon are even in the same stratosphere defensively, at least from what I've read/heard.

But I do love me some Murph.

He is definitely a lot faster than Murphy, but Murphy is still fast and does indeed get a good jump on balls. That is why I said (and I use my eyes too) that it isn't as crazy as some think to suggest Murphy is a darn good defender that can absolutely hold his own. He might not be as good as Borbon, but he is a good defender.

...and calling out eye-judgements based on one guy's view of one player's defense is silly. You had it right - he is a moron.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Watching a heck of a lot of Rangers games. Also, a friend who is a baseball nut/Rangers fan extraordinaire whose baseball opinions I respect quite a bit agrees with me.

Borbon might have a step on Murphy, but Murphy is more than fast enough to play any outfield position. He also (from my viewpoint) tends to get a better read/jump on the ball and has a much better arm than Borbon does. In other words, whatever Borbon has on him in speed, Murphy makes up for it with his arm and his ability to get a good jump on the ball.

And beyond all that, even if Borbon had a defensive advantage over Murphy, it certainly isn't enough to justify playing Borbon over Murphy when offense is taken into consideration.

I agree with the part in bold greatly and have been preaching as much, despite Hamilton playing CF as a result.

[Male30Dan]

From T.R. Sullivan's mailbag:

Feliz was Rookie of the Year and has two solid pitches, including an electric fastball. He is a perfect fit as a closer, and his career could last much longer with fewer innings. Why would people think that Feliz should be in the rotation?
-- Matt H. McKinney, Texas

There are many ways to find a front-line closer, but No. 1 starters are much harder to come by. When you have a 22-year-old pitching prodigy with an "electric" fastball and two decent-to-above-average secondary pitches, he has No. 1 starter written all over him. If the Rangers knew they were guaranteed of getting 220 innings out of Feliz as a starter next year, they would make the switch immediately and take their chances of finding a capable closer, but when it comes to pitching, nothing is guaranteed.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

From T.R. Sullivan's mailbag:

Feliz was Rookie of the Year and has two solid pitches, including an electric fastball. He is a perfect fit as a closer, and his career could last much longer with fewer innings. Why would people think that Feliz should be in the rotation?
-- Matt H. McKinney, Texas

There are many ways to find a front-line closer, but No. 1 starters are much harder to come by. When you have a 22-year-old pitching prodigy with an "electric" fastball and two decent-to-above-average secondary pitches, he has No. 1 starter written all over him. If the Rangers knew they were guaranteed of getting 220 innings out of Feliz as a starter next year, they would make the switch immediately and take their chances of finding a capable closer, but when it comes to pitching, nothing is guaranteed.

i'm pretty sure his secondary pitches need a lot of work before he's a guaranteed number 1 starter. i hope he gets a shot to start though.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by mkat

i'm pretty sure his secondary pitches need a lot of work before he's a guaranteed number 1 starter. i hope he gets a shot to start though.

You and me both...

[Male30Dan]

Rumors stirring that we are in the midst of making Lee a competitive 5-year offer...

[Mav Addict]

Is it April yet?

[mavspwnage]

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/ar...ff-lee-to.html

Rangers second baseman Ian Kinsler said that Cliff Lee told him via text message that the Rangers were again at his Arkansas home.

"Basically, I said, 'What's going on in Arkansas?' He said, 'the Rangers are down here again,'" Kinsler said on KESN-FM. "I was like, 'Well, just sign whatever they give you.' He said, 'Let's see what happens. We have to wait it out.'

"I said, 'Remember, I like being your teammate.' And he said, 'I do, too, but we have to wait it out.' I said, 'Just sign it.' And then he sent me a picture of a deer (that one of Lee's friends bagged)."

When Kinsler was asked if other Rangers teammates were recruiting Lee, he replied: "Not too much."

Rangers CEO Chuck Greenberg, president Nolan Ryan and general manager Jon Daniels flew to Little Rock and met with Lee on Nov. 15.

"We got the answers we wanted, and we reconfirmed our interest in bringing him back," Ryan said after the Nov. 15 gathering. "We left feeling good about the meeting, and I do think Cliff is very interested in playing here again."

Following those face-to-face talks Ryan said he wanted to meet with Lee again, preferably before the winter meetings.

Those meetings take place in Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Dec. 6-10.

[Male30Dan]

Man, that sucks... I really was hoping Dunn would make his way on the Rangers' roster somehow. He is now off to the White Sox. I wonder if they end up with Dunn and Konerko or if Konerko ends up a target for Texas.

Dunn seemed so perfect as a much younger version of Vlad at DH (which he will definitely play if Konerko comes back) or even a power hitting 1B option with poor range (which in all honesty is all Konerko is at this point).