Execution-Utah Style

[senorfrog]

I'm not sure how you feel about capital punishment, but personally...I'm all for this.

BBC Report on Scheduled Utah Executions

[veruca salt]

hey kids, don't kill people, or we'll kill you!

[Drbio]

Troy Kell - a white supremacist who killed a black prison inmate in 1994 - requested a firing squad only because he did not like the idea of poison running through his veins.

I guess lead running through his body was much more sanitary. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: veruca salt
hey kids, don't kill people, or we'll kill you!

I was browsing the Lounge and saw this thread. Veruca, I agree with you. I am a very Conservative thinking person, but the issue of Capital punishment is where I tread from the Conservative philosophy. Murder by the government only exacerbates the problem in the first place. How is telling the public killing is wrong, then supposedly enforcing this by murdering those that kill solving anything?

That is just not logical to me. At all.

[senorfrog]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

I was browsing the Lounge and saw this thread. Veruca, I agree with you. I am a very Conservative thinking person, but the issue of Capital punishment is where I tread from the Conservative philosophy. Murder by the government only exacerbates the problem in the first place. How is telling the public killing is wrong, then supposedly enforcing this by murdering those that kill solving anything?

That is just not logical to me. At all.

This is where Veruca's sarcasm icon could have come in handy...

[LRB]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

I was browsing the Lounge and saw this thread. Veruca, I agree with you. I am a very Conservative thinking person, but the issue of Capital punishment is where I tread from the Conservative philosophy. Murder by the government only exacerbates the problem in the first place. How is telling the public killing is wrong, then supposedly enforcing this by murdering those that kill solving anything?

That is just not logical to me. At all.

Interesting choice of words u2sarajevo, however LAWFULLY executing LAWFULLY convicted and LAWFULLY sentenced criminals does not meet the most common definition of "murder". To be "murder" it needs to be an unlawful action. Our laws do not state that killing is wrong. What the law states is that killing outside of the law is wrong. It is not the killing that is wrong, it is the breaking of the law to accomplish the killing. The United States is a nation that adheres to the Rule of Law. One of the chief laws is that killing another person outside of the law is a very serious crime. Without this law we would live in total and utter chaos.

Now does every unlawful killing deserve to have the murderer executed? Probably not. Then who does deserve to be executed if anyone? Well we have a long established system of courts and laws to determine that. To fail to follow the verdicts of this system of laws and courts would be unlawful. So there is no unlogical contridiction to the message being set to the people. That message is to follow the Rule of Law. Seems totally logical to me. Obey the law.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: LRB

Interesting choice of words u2sarajevo, however LAWFULLY executing LAWFULLY convicted and LAWFULLY sentenced criminals does not meet the most common definition of "murder". To be "murder" it needs to be an unlawful action. Our laws do not state that killing is wrong. What the law states is that killing outside of the law is wrong. It is not the killing that is wrong, it is the breaking of the law to accomplish the killing. The United States is a nation that adheres to the Rule of Law. One of the chief laws is that killing another person outside of the law is a very serious crime. Without this law we would live in total and utter chaos.

Now does every unlawful killing deserve to have the murderer executed? Probably not. Then who does deserve to be executed if anyone? Well we have a long established system of courts and laws to determine that. To fail to follow the verdicts of this system of laws and courts would be unlawful. So there is no unlogical contridiction to the message being set to the people. That message is to follow the Rule of Law. Seems totally logical to me. Obey the law.

Curious why you say that without the law "we would live in total and utter chaos" when many states do not "kill" convicted murderers and still seem to get by without the proposed "total and utter chaos". I will agree that me calling it "murder" was going too far, but it was tongue in cheek, I assure you.

I understand that the "Rule of Law" states that capital punishment is a viable option for our extreme criminals, but I cannot condone killing of any kind. Be it murder, terrorism, assasination, war, etc... Logically thinking, if you want to submit a set of rules to live by for others to follow, then don't deviate from that. I feel that Capital Punishment does just that. "Do as I say, not as I do".

In a perfect world this would not exist. My "perfect world" will never exist, but it's nice to think that it could. War is a necessity at times, otherwise we would be a nation being bullied by terrorists and imperilistic Nations. I understand that, I do not like the end result of that action however. I have to think that the murderous suicide bombers come to that conclusion in their life that for their world to ever get better, the ultimate sacrifice has to be made. Does that make it right? No. It just perpetuates the killing to keep going on. And on. And on......

[Rhylan]

It doesn't matter if you have capital punishment or not - there will always be crazy people running around killing people.

I say don't waste the time and money worrying about executions and all the political BS that goes along with it. It just gives radical leftists and holier-than-thou Europeans ammo (sorry to anyone who's from Europe - I'm talking about a subset, here [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img])... Instead, send 'em to do 16 hours of grueling outdoor labor in harsh climates every day for the rest of their lives. Death is the easy way out for some of these fools.

[LRB]

Curious why you say that without the law "we would live in total and utter chaos" when many states do not "kill" convicted murderers and still seem to get by without the proposed "total and utter chaos". I will agree that me calling it "murder" was going too far, but it was tongue in cheek, I assure you.

I understand that the "Rule of Law" states that capital punishment is a viable option for our extreme criminals, but I cannot condone killing of any kind. Be it murder, terrorism, assasination, war, etc... Logically thinking, if you want to submit a set of rules to live by for others to follow, then don't deviate from that. I feel that Capital Punishment does just that. "Do as I say, not as I do".

In a perfect world this would not exist. My "perfect world" will never exist, but it's nice to think that it could. War is a necessity at times, otherwise we would be a nation being bullied by terrorists and imperilistic Nations. I understand that, I do not like the end result of that action however. I have to think that the murderous suicide bombers come to that conclusion in their life that for their world to ever get better, the ultimate sacrifice has to be made. Does that make it right? No. It just perpetuates the killing to keep going on. And on. And on......

u2sarajevo let me just state that I am not totally for nor totally against the death penalty. I do not believe that if the death penalty was removed completely as a sentencing option from all our court systems that it would result in utter chaos. I do believe that in some instances that we might very well have more chaos than we currently do. I do understand peoples reluctance to execute criminals that we have in custody and behind bars. If it was up to me, I would only execute those to whom putting them behind bars would still make it unlikely that their violent assalts on others would be stopped. Remember one of the killers in the original article was convicted of killing someone while incarcerated. A few years ago several inmates escaped from prison here and Texas and murdered a police officer. Many inmates continue to rape and brutalize victims even after being put in prison. In these case I believe it is the rights of future victims vs the rights of a condemned murderer. In my mind the murderer should go every time.

But exections are not the only state sanctioned killings. Police officers, prison guards, and even private citizens are sanctioned to use deadly force in protecting themselves and others. These killings are perfectly legal, and are sanctioned everywhere in the United States. To remove this sanction would result in utter chaos IMO. Every citizen has the right to have their life protected as long as they stay within the confines of the law. The law clearly specifies when deadly force is acceptable to use and when it is not. But our lives and our society depend on the deterent of deadly force. I wish that it were not needed, but there are too many evil people in this world for us to do without it.

[u2sarajevo]

I think you just summed up what I said. But more clearly.

[mavsfanforever]

I do not even want Joe Crawford to be executed.