What's the shelf life for the race card? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

alexamenos · 08-13-2009, 09:26 AM

a mixed metaphor thread....

I'm wondering, how soon will the 'you oppose Obama because you're a racist (eek!!!)' refrain be treated with near-unanimous abject contempt?

I gotta think the shelf life on this retort is pretty doggone short. It's a silly ad hominem on it's face and if anyone thinks that the right (real and nominal) wouldn't be every bit as adamently opposed to Barry Soetoro's socialist schemes if he was a redneck bubba from the deep south, then that person must have been in a coma during the 1990's.

I put the over / under on this at mid-October. By Halloween the 'racist oppose Obama's plans because they're evil racists' thing won't even be acceptable on the Commie News Network and others...

As it exhibit a in the demise of this meme, Paul Krugman's latest nonsense:

Quote:

the peddlers of anti-progressive lies are managing to convince a certain kind of American — white, socially conservative, etc. — that the hate-mongers are people like them; and, even more important, that progressives are Those People, people not like them.

Obama’s skin color makes this easy; but the Clintons faced the same kind of thing. Why? Well, the old line about Clinton being the first black president gets at something...

The Krugman Indicator: If Krugman is making the argument then the argument is a) silly and illogical; and b) obviously so.

He's trying to put a slightly different spin on the race angle, but the gist is the same -- the reason (white conservative) people don't support Obama is because of their deep-rooted cultural socio-pathies, not because they have differences of opinion with regards to the ruling party's policies and their means of implementing those policies.

92bDad · 08-13-2009, 11:08 AM

With the understanding that there is a low number, but what are these pundits saying about Black Conservatives or Black Republicans?

I long for the day when we can have discussions without the "Race Card" being pulled out of thin air. Until then, we appear to tred on egg shells with any comment...it's as if it's not about ones intent of what they say, but rather one interpretation based on their own internal bias/prejudice.

Mavdog · 08-13-2009, 11:17 AM

Krugman gets it wrong, but he also gets it right.

People are not opposing thr health care reform proposal because Obama is a black man, and to answer your question the shelf life on the race card has already expired.

Many of those who have bought into the message of fear, of the proposal being a government takeover and "socialism", of the Feds deciding who gets to live and who dies...these inaccurate claims find a furtile ground to blossom in many people because they look at obama and think "I don't trust him because (pick one) he's not like me/his father was not Christian/he was taught in a Muslim school.

fear is an easy emotion to stir up and prey on, and those that are out there using it know this well. So far they're succeeding.

92bDad · 08-13-2009, 11:23 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsiKO09QT6Y

Warning - the "Race Card" is being used again in this story.

I have empathy for the 84 year old woman, however I fully support the actions of the police officer.

Interesting to see so many commenting against the officer...why such prejudicial feelings towards the police?

92bDad · 08-13-2009, 11:27 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3-_NyDMmEI

Here's another video as that shows why the Police have a difficult task of determine how much force is enough force.

If criminals when confronted by police would just do what they are told, then perhaps we would have less "Excessive Force" videos.

This suspect is told 6 times to get on his knees, instead of doing what he's told he turns on the police officer and winds up getting shot.

DirkFTW · 08-13-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

Many of those who have bought into the message of fear, of the proposal being a government takeover and "socialism", of the Feds deciding who gets to live and who dies...these inaccurate claims find a furtile ground to blossom in many people because they look at obama and think "I don't trust him because (pick one) he's not like me/his father was not Christian/he was taught in a Muslim school.

fear is an easy emotion to stir up and prey on, and those that are out there using it know this well. So far they're succeeding.

Many of those who have bought into the message of fear, of the status quo being a corporate takeover and subjugation of the poor/sick, of the faceless suits deciding who gets to live and who dies...these inaccurate claims find a furtile ground to blossom in many people because they look at the doctors and the rich and think "I don't trust him because (pick one) he must have got that way at the expense of the poor and the sick, no one could ever get that rich honestly, next time he'd lop off my limbs to make an extra buck.

fear is an easy emotion to stir up and prey on, and those that are out there using it know this well. So far they're succeeding.

Just saying.

dude1394 · 08-13-2009, 02:07 PM

People do not trust obama because they do not trust their government at ALL. They haven't trusted them in 5-10 years I imagine when it comes to doing anything efficiently. And barry rahming things down their throat just doesn't feel so good when it's their health care.

If it's a credit card bill (stimulus that doesn't stimulus) then that's one thing, (they don't like it but it doesn't directly effect them) but their medical care does. Just like the people do not trust the government to actually fix immigration, they do not trust them to "fix" the health care system.

The democrats are going to have to do a hell of a lot better job of proving why they are going to expand health care to 40million +, AND cut costs. People are calling bull**** on that, for good reason, it is.

The government has been claiming they would increase benefits and curb costs by cutting "waste and abuse" for decades. Everyone on this board knows that is bullcrap. That the price tag will go up, like it always does (see Post Office) and the waste and abuse will be forgotten.

In this case however, they know that there will be rationing and they don't like it. Barry and the Dems need a new tune, because this one is a sour note.

dalmations202 · 08-13-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Many of those who have bought into the message of fear, of the status quo being a corporate takeover and subjugation of the poor/sick, of the faceless suits deciding who gets to live and who dies...these inaccurate claims find a furtile ground to blossom in many people because they look at the doctors and the rich and think "I don't trust him because (pick one) he must have got that way at the expense of the poor and the sick, no one could ever get that rich honestly, next time he'd lop off my limbs to make an extra buck.

fear is an easy emotion to stir up and prey on, and those that are out there using it know this well. So far they're succeeding.

Just saying.

I really wish I could give you rep for this one (need to spread some around).............. Pointing out the "other side of the story" is comedy at it's best.

dalmations202 · 08-13-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

People do not trust obama because they do not trust their government at ALL. They haven't trusted them in 5-10 years I imagine when it comes to doing anything efficiently. And barry rahming things down their throat just doesn't feel so good when it's their health care. <snip>

Easily since HW --- only the younger generations trust the government. I haven't trusted it since JFK, and he was dead just before I was born.

Historically if you realize what JFK, then LBJ, then tricky Dick, then Ford, then give it away Carter, and yes even then the beloved Gipper did while in office (all of them did some nasty stuff), it is not hard to see why HW, Bubba, GW, and now One Bad Ass Mistake America are getting farther and farther away from the average people.

Let's face it, people are becoming sheeple and only seeing what they as individuals want. As more and more rights are taken, the government is becoming stronger and gaining more control over the average individual.

In the end it is either civil war, or masters and slaves.

The question is not whether whom or which side is right -- the question is what is going to happen next.

Most of the cause of all of this --- started with Abraham Lincoln -- when he took away states rights, and gave them to the federal government. To the victor belongs the spoils though. Fortunately or unfortunately -- you only have the rights that you (or someone in your place) are willing to die for.

dude1394 · 08-13-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

One Bad Ass Mistake America

Hah! Rep just for this.

Justin Credible · 08-13-2009, 09:35 PM

Fine print: The "Race Card" will expire on the day that the term "African American" is retired. Not a day sooner.

chumdawg · 08-13-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Easily since HW --- only the younger generations trust the government. I haven't trusted it since JFK, and he was dead just before I was born.

You know what the government is, if you believe that way? It's the price you pay to live the lifestyle that you do.

dalmations202 · 08-13-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You know what the government is, if you believe that way? It's the price you pay to live the lifestyle that you do.

Without doubt. Is there something any individual can do about it -- without making waves?

Doesn't mean I trust anyone, especially the gov though.

You pay the price, or you make waves. At what point the waves start getting made is a good question.

chumdawg · 08-13-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Without doubt. Is there something any individual can do about it -- without making waves?

Doesn't mean I trust anyone, especially the gov though.

You pay the price, or you make waves. At what point the waves start getting made is a good question.

That ties in to a question recently asked of me by a friend. She pointed me to an article citing the growth of a militia movement in the US (not completely separated from a white supremacist movement, for what that's worth), and said she couldn't figure out whether this is a good or a bad thing.

I answered that it depends on how much stomach you have for a civil war. (I didn't mention it, but I'm pretty sure that the opposition would lose that civil war.)

There are some things you can't get around. And one of those things is the US government. Even if you don't like it--even if you flat out, revolutionary style, HATE IT--you still can't get around it.

Jack.Kerr · 08-13-2009, 11:39 PM

I don't think the race card is likely to go away any time soon. Especially when the same people who e-mail (or post) the out-and-out lies about the healthcare reform proposals are the same ones who circulate the not-even-thinly-veiled racist jokes and comments about Obama and his family. I think it's gonna be impossible to de-couple the two issues for the forseeable.

It's a tough break for people with legitimate criticisms of the Democratic healthcare proposal, but when the same arguments are being parroted by people with obviously dishonorable intentions, the bigger public is going to see the two as related.

Not naming any names here. Not like anyone has to.

dude1394 · 08-14-2009, 07:53 AM

It will only go away when folks ignore it. Until then it will be trotted out everytime it can be. Almost every criticism of Barry has been branded as racist by someone.

Justin Credible · 08-14-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

It will only go away when folks ignore it. Until then it will be trotted out everytime it can be. Almost every criticism of Barry has been branded as racist by someone.

Problem: How can you ignore it when it's forced on the public by the government?

I'm not saying that the government is intentionally racist at all, rather I'm saying that with things such as affirmative action and the use of the term "African American" in general. Here's a nice question for you; How many black people have you actually met that were truly from Africa (or have even been there)? So if it's true that they're born and raised here and actually have never been outside of these country lines then what adds the "African" part into the label? They're just Americans, plain and simple.

Also, celebrating diversity creates diversity. Creating diversity generally will cause the different groups to segregate themselves in some way from other races. Segregation is racist.

The downside is that many times these are also the groups that rally for social acceptance by those groups that they deem as being unilateral, whilst being unilateral themselves. Their choice to come together as a race is in itself racist.

Racism is everywhere and it seems to be more openly practiced by those that are supposedly against the concept itself than the general public. Quite the catch 22.

dalmations202 · 08-14-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That ties in to a question recently asked of me by a friend. She pointed me to an article citing the growth of a militia movement in the US (not completely separated from a white supremacist movement, for what that's worth), and said she couldn't figure out whether this is a good or a bad thing.

I answered that it depends on how much stomach you have for a civil war. (I didn't mention it, but I'm pretty sure that the opposition would lose that civil war.)

There are some things you can't get around. And one of those things is the US government. Even if you don't like it--even if you flat out, revolutionary style, HATE IT--you still can't get around it.

Very true. You can't get around the US Gov. The question is, who is the US Gov, and can that change. The answer is the people and public sentiment can change.

You state that the opposition would lose that civil war --- who is the opposition when it comes to civil war. Both sides are from within. There is never a winner in civil war - just a huge loss of life. In Iraq's civil war, who won? Sunni, Shiite, Kurd? In the end, lots of loss of life -- no real winners. Eventually a foreign country came in and basically took over the country. Then all of them were at the mercy of the foreign country. The US basically gave it back to keep them from uniting and kicking us out anyway (eventually years down the road it would have happened).

Now, why are we getting closer and closer to civil war? Taxation and lack of representation. In other words, we are sending more and more, but getting our way less and less.

If we do get to the point of civil war ---- do you think maybe Russia, China, or Iran might want to come take over, after we have destroyed many of our assets.

dude1394 · 08-14-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Credible

Problem: How can you ignore it when it's forced on the public by the government?

I'm not saying that the government is intentionally racist at all, .

Well unfortunately the government is racist by definition when looking at affirmative action. Somehow this is good racism versus bad racism, but still racist.

alexamenos · 08-14-2009, 09:00 AM

fwiw...'getting around' the federal government could easily become a moot point in our lifetime. A monetary collapse, an empire folding it up because of too much debt....these sorts of things could very easily lead to a fundamental shift of political power from the federal government back to the state and local governments.

alexamenos · 08-14-2009, 09:38 AM

this is kinda what I was getting at....

vid

The anti-Barry stuff today is alot like the anti-Bush stuff a few years ago.

Rational debate is off the table, because the decisions have been made and the course has been set--the only thing anyone is debating is when to bomb Iraq (not whether to bomb iraq), how many trillions to spend (not whether to spend trillions), etc..... Hence direct action, and all that this entails.

When large groups of ordinary folks show themselves in public we invariably learn that some are whacko commie racist conspiracy theory types. The powers that be hone in on the whackos, portraying the whacks in the mainstream media as the norm as a means of demonizing the whole dissident movement. (take an anti-war kind of demonstration....100 soccer moms and guys wearing john deere tractor hats and one crazy commie bitch with a 'George W. Bush was behind 9-11' poster....guess who gets all the pub)

So there was a lot of legitimate criticism during the run up to Iraq Pt 2 and there's a lot of substance to the anti-barry movement today. The powers that be, being corrupt cretins, wisely and shrewdly demonize and marginalize these dissident movements. Tribalist instincts prevent the disparate movements from noticing that they're bitching about basically the same fundamental problems.

mcsluggo · 08-14-2009, 02:22 PM

Everyone is a racist. Everyone. we are all more comfortable with people more like ourselves, and are prone to fall into the "us and them" mindframe from time to time in all of interactions . It happens, it is human nature. (race is just one of the many "dividing lines" of us versus them)

The problem we have is that one race is both smaller AND disproportionately poorer and under represented in the nation's core power. this means that the natural tendency for "us and them" hurts that subset more than it would otherwise (since they are thus MORE cut off from the average level of power and money). THis happens WITHOUT any actual MALICIOUS racism (which, unfortunately also still exists to some extent, albeit MUCH less than in the past)

anyway... the race card will continue to be pulled as long as one of the two following conditions exists

1) Black politicians (or politicians trying to court the black vote) are able to get political hay by pulling the race card (which will be true as long as an average economic achievement levels differ between the two races).

2) oppressed white voters continue to feel the injustice of their lot in the grand scheme of things.

I see both 1 and 2 holding strong for the near future.. so the race card will continue to appear.

that said... in my opinion, Obama has done a damn good job of NOT pulling the race card, and doing his best to stay away from it. Some others have tried to to play it on his behalf, and some observers (including several on this board) see the race card on every single blade of grass in the land... but like i said... I think Obama himself has mostly tried damn hard to stay AWAY from the race card minefield (wisely, because his political fortunes are very dependent upon a large WHITE constituency).

alexamenos · 08-14-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Everyone is a racist. Everyone.

I think where you say 'racist' I prefer the term 'tribalist'. Everyone is tribal, everyone....tribes are often divided along racial lines but race, I think, is secondary in most cases.

Mavdog · 08-15-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Many of those who have bought into the message of fear, of the status quo being a corporate takeover and subjugation of the poor/sick, of the faceless suits deciding who gets to live and who dies...these inaccurate claims find a furtile ground to blossom in many people because they look at the doctors and the rich and think "I don't trust him because (pick one) he must have got that way at the expense of the poor and the sick, no one could ever get that rich honestly, next time he'd lop off my limbs to make an extra buck.

fear is an easy emotion to stir up and prey on, and those that are out there using it know this well. So far they're succeeding.

Just saying.

are you saying the health care debate is actually about class rather than care?

I haven't read any comments about the need to curtail doctor's incomes or the like, have you?

mcsluggo · 08-17-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I think where you say 'racist' I prefer the term 'tribalist'. Everyone is tribal, everyone....tribes are often divided along racial lines but race, I think, is secondary in most cases.

agreed, race is just one of the dividing lines. But it is a quite glaring one, and it is also more persistent than many of the other lines. The Bush clan came from elite Connecticut, but have successfully ingratiated themselves into the Texas tribe in a single generation. That is fairly big jump. The children of black parents have a persistent badge that declares them part of the black clan to others (their physical appearance), whether they they choose to maintain that affiliation or not.

dude1394 · 08-20-2009, 08:02 AM

Now we are talking. The ultimate race-card.. Just doctor up some photos and make it up!

Quote:

On Tuesday, MSNBC’s Contessa Brewer fretted over health care reform protesters legally carrying guns: "A man at a pro-health care reform rally...wore a semiautomatic assault rifle on his shoulder and a pistol on his hip....there are questions about whether this has racial overtones....white people showing up with guns." Brewer failed to mention the man she described was black.
...
Not only did Brewer, Ratigan, and Toure fail to point out the fact that the gun-toting protester that sparked the discussion was black, but the video footage shown of that protester was so edited, that it was impossible to see that he was black. The man appeared at a health care rally outside of President Obama’s speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Phoenix, Arizona.

<a href="http://harvest.AdGardener.com/noscript.aspx?s=16&c=fa99ab07-42c2-43e0-abfb-b47f96e4b9b9" target="_blank"><img src="http://harvest.AdGardener.com/noscript.aspx?s=16&w=336&h=280&c=fa99a b07-42c2-43e0-abfb-b47f96e4b9b9" width="336" height="280" border="0" /></a>

The Arizona Republic reported: "A man, who decided not to give his name, was walking around the pro-health care reform rally at Third and Washington streets, with a pistol on his hip and an AR-15 (a semi-automatic assault weapon) on a strap over his shoulder. ‘Because I can do it,’ he said when asked why he was armed. ‘In Arizona, I still have some freedoms.’" A picture accompanying the article showed the man was African-American.
.

Justin Credible · 08-20-2009, 08:05 AM

Well you know how those silly crackers get with their guns and those liberals..
I'm as white as this text so being offended is not an option.

92bDad · 08-20-2009, 09:33 AM

What do you expect, a Black Conservative called out by the elitest liberal media for hating on their white liberal president.

:-)

Seriously, is there any more evidence than this regarding the propoganda and agenda of MSNBC?

I cringe at the mere thought of racism and the victims of real racism actions. Saddly, all races are indirectly victims, as now it appears that when someone disagrees with someone, they are portrayed as a potential racist. Does that also apply to those who disagreed with President Bush? Where they potential racists against whites?

Fundamentally, race issues are being used to distract us from genuine issues. The reality is that we have diametrically opposed political views facing off against each other.

On one hand, you have Government Control (Liberal - Democrat) on the other hand you have Private or Citizen Control (Conservative - Republican) Yes there are exceptions to both labels, but for the most part we can define the fundamental difference in this way.

However both Republican and Democrat have been manipulating the system to make it appear as if they are benefitting their own constituents, while basically benefiting their own personal cause.

Politicians are still people who are quite simply tempted by many things, to include power and money. In many instances they become their own worst enemy as they buy into this status they have and thus begin to believe some pretty wacky things.

It is important for us as a people to rise up above "Racist" tactics and distractions in order to come together and have genuine discussion on issues. We also need to get to a humble attitude as we share our views/beliefs knowing that some of them will have to be sacrificed in order to maintain some level of peace in our society. It's called Give and Take.

There is no way we will have a prosperous and free society if we have 100% Liberal or 100% conservative ideology, simply because you will create a large volume of disenfranchised citizens who will eventually rise up...and that is not what any of us wants.

At the end of the day, we need to be free to share our views/opinions without fear of "Race Card" perceptions.

Is there a way were we can discern the difference between people with opposing view points and people who are genuine racists? The first step, can anyone regardless of race be a racist? To me, when we judge one another on the color of our skin without measuring the character of their heart, then we are guilty of being a racist.

What will it take for each of us to humble ourselves and respect that others are in pain over racism? For me as White Male, I need to respect that others who may be Black, Red, Yellow, Brown...they may have something that occured to them which skews how they feel and act or react when they see me. I need to treat that person with respect, which doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

On the flip side, others who are different than me should treat me with respect and understand that I too have had experiences good, bad or indifferent. It's up to them to treat me with respect, again even if we disagree.

There are great people of all races, just as their are idiots of all races.

It's time to get out of the mob mentality and for all of us to stand up as individual and THINKERS. We need not respond just because MSNBC or FOX NEWS say this is how we should react. We need not respond just because Reverand Jesse Jackson or Oral Roberts say this is how we should react.

As long as we allow others to dictate how we as a mass feel and act, to include pulling the race card, then we will remain distracted the core differences of our fundamental ideals.

dude1394 · 09-14-2009, 06:21 PM

Even "You Lie" is racist.

The race card...it just keeps on keeping on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/op...dowd.html?_r=1

Quote:

The normally nonchalant Barack Obama looked nonplussed, as Nancy Pelosi glowered behind.
Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” at a president who didn’t.
But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

chumdawg · 09-14-2009, 09:04 PM

dude...I read the whole article...and my question to you is: What do you think the odds are that she is right?

dude1394 · 09-14-2009, 09:55 PM

Beats me. About as likely that she's a closet bigot probably. Or not so closeted.

chumdawg · 09-14-2009, 10:09 PM

It "beats you" what the odds are that she is right? I'm sorry, but that is nowhere near good enough. You were the one who put it out there, and claimed that she is using the race card. Yet you have no idea whether or not she is correctly identifying racism (as she goes to pains in her article to do)? That just will not cut it.

dude1394 · 09-14-2009, 11:23 PM

You don't think she is using the race card to call racism on a "you lie" statement. Plenty good enough.

Sorry but branding any and everything out of his mouth as racist is playing the race card, which you seem to be doing also.

chumdawg · 09-15-2009, 12:02 AM

What I am saying is that the evidence seems to suggest that there is at least a decent possibility that Wilson's actions were racially motivated. The writer didn't just say "That's racist." She gave the back-story and explained her point of view.

It wasn't AT ALL calling a "you lie" statement racist. It was talking about a "you lie" statement coming from this particular congressman.

All you had to do was say that there is zero chance this particular congressman was motivated by race when he said that. You didn't do that. You instead say that you have no clue. Would you object if I claimed that there was a better than 50% chance his actions were racially motivated?

92bDad · 09-15-2009, 08:27 AM

When someone has the race card pulled against them, there is nothing they can do to defend the acusation.

It's an emotional charge, which in many cases is thrown out based on circumstantial issues.

Wilson, made a comment "You Lie" at an inappropriate time. Being that he is and works on committees that have worked on this bill, he was emotionally charged and simply responded (Out Loud) to what he heard coming from the President. He quickly went and apologized to the President for his lack of tact, given the setting.

Now we have many calling "Racism" when there was NOTHING racist about it...but because that word "Racism" is being used...we see a huge emotional reaction and it shuts some people down from listening to any discussion.

If President Obama accepted the apology, why can't others...are we saying that Pelosi and others on the left no longer support and stand behind their President. Are they Bigots and Racist in their own way?

Was Kanye being a racist when he jumped up at the VMA's and cut off a White performer?

Was Serena being a racist when she went off on a line's judge with Asian descent?

This is such a foolish argument that amounts to nothing more than a lose-lose for everyone...so why do some insist on pulling the "Race" card at times when it is unwarranted? It demeans those who genuine and true victims of racism, and it's about time that the the Right call their own out when it happens, and the left call their own out when it happens.

We are all too busy pointing at others 2"x4" when we have a freakin plank in our own eye...

alexamenos · 09-15-2009, 08:56 AM

I just want to go on record and say that what Joe Wilson did was absolutely wrong.

If someone from the peanut gallery shouted 'you lie' at a president every time the president told a lie, we'd never make it through a speech and we'd never return to our regularly scheduled programming.

dude1394 · 09-15-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What I am saying is that the evidence seems to suggest that there is at least a decent possibility that Wilson's actions were racially motivated. The writer didn't just say "That's racist." She gave the back-story and explained her point of view.

It wasn't AT ALL calling a "you lie" statement racist. It was talking about a "you lie" statement coming from this particular congressman.

All you had to do was say that there is zero chance this particular congressman was motivated by race when he said that. You didn't do that. You instead say that you have no clue. Would you object if I claimed that there was a better than 50% chance his actions were racially motivated?

You make up the numbers, I do not know what's in his heart and mind. What are the odds that you and modo would think anything this senator criticizes about barry would be racially motivated. I would expect much greater than the odds that it actually is.

So if there is a 1% chance that there is a racial component in a statement that then it's okay to fling out the race card? Sure since it's effective and some people will believe it. Does it not matter that there is a >1% chance that the author is a bigot?

FINtastic · 09-15-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

The anti-Barry stuff today is alot like the anti-Bush stuff a few years ago.

Rational debate is off the table, because the decisions have been made and the course has been set--the only thing anyone is debating is when to bomb Iraq (not whether to bomb iraq), how many trillions to spend (not whether to spend trillions), etc..... Hence direct action, and all that this entails.

When large groups of ordinary folks show themselves in public we invariably learn that some are whacko commie racist conspiracy theory types. The powers that be hone in on the whackos, portraying the whacks in the mainstream media as the norm as a means of demonizing the whole dissident movement. (take an anti-war kind of demonstration....100 soccer moms and guys wearing john deere tractor hats and one crazy commie bitch with a 'George W. Bush was behind 9-11' poster....guess who gets all the pub)

So there was a lot of legitimate criticism during the run up to Iraq Pt 2 and there's a lot of substance to the anti-barry movement today. The powers that be, being corrupt cretins, wisely and shrewdly demonize and marginalize these dissident movements. Tribalist instincts prevent the disparate movements from noticing that they're bitching about basically the same fundamental problems.

It's scary how right you are here. These exact same thoughts have been running through my mind the last few days.

dalmations202 · 09-16-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I just want to go on record and say that what Joe Wilson did was absolutely wrong.

If someone from the peanut gallery shouted 'you lie' at a president every time the president told a lie, we'd never make it through a speech and we'd never return to our regularly scheduled programming.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to alexamenos again.

dude1394 · 09-16-2009, 02:31 PM

Oooohhh that race card...It's so sweet!! Speaking of the peanut gallery..
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...rter.html?_r=1

Quote:

Responding to an audience question at a town hall at his presidential center in Atlanta, Carter said Tuesday that Wilson's outburst was also rooted in fears of a black president.

''I think it's based on racism,'' Carter said. ''There is an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president.''