The Rockets could be scary - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

wmbwinn · 11-13-2006, 10:35 PM

I don't think it is a coincidence that the Rockets destroyed Dallas and the Heat...

If this team stays healthy and TMac returns to form... this team is scary.

In the past, Yao was really only good for the first half. He would be too tired and slow in the second half. Yao is in better shape. He ran Shaq into the ground and he made our centers look really clumsy (and our centers are good defenders).

It depends on their health down the road....

pickupyonuts · 11-13-2006, 11:03 PM

yao is rediculously amazing

nashtymavsfan13 · 11-13-2006, 11:20 PM

They will be a contender this year, but they need to stay healthy and I still think the Mavs and Spurs are better.

wmbwinn · 11-13-2006, 11:25 PM

I just discovered reading deeper down the list of recent posts that there is already a great post about Yao and the Rockets. The thread is named for Yao. Go there. Sorry I started this post when another was already going. The Rockets are formidable if they stay healthy. Maybe Bowen will get his foot under Yao...

I hope not. If Bowen does that on purpose, he shouldn't play anymore. If Bowen does it by habit/learned jumping technique/patterned movement at the spinal cord level (where such automatic leg activities are controlled), then Bowen should be made to re-learn to jump without doing that.

nashtymavsfan13 · 11-13-2006, 11:28 PM

Yeah, we all know the Rockets are a solid contender this year, we aren't blowing them off. They are contenders, but they have to stay healthy and even if they do I think they are still the 3rd best team in Texas.

Tokey41 · 11-14-2006, 12:19 AM

IF Tmac is healthy they will be elite, if not they will just be good with Yao being a dominating center.

I don't think Tmac will stay healthy for the long haul. Just me though, and even if he does he won't have much left in his back for spring in the playoffs and force more and more jumpers.

sike · 11-14-2006, 12:24 AM

they already are scary...have you seen yao?..he's really ugly!

Thespiralgoeson · 11-14-2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

They will be a contender this year, but they need to stay healthy and I still think the Mavs and Spurs are better.

I for one am already more concerned about the Rockets than I am about the Spurs.

fluid.forty.one · 11-14-2006, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I for one am already more concerned about the Rockets than I am about the Spurs.

I just can't allow myself to say that until 40-50 games are played this year.

nashtymavsfan13 · 11-14-2006, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I for one am already more concerned about the Rockets than I am about the Spurs.

I'm not. At least not yet.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-14-2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I just can't allow myself to say that until 40-50 games are played this year.

Let me put it this way. I know exactly what the Spurs are capable of because these are the same Spurs the Mavs beat last year. Okay, so they replaced Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic with Fransisco Elson and some other spares. They're no better than they were last year.

The Rockets OTOH picked up Shane Battier and Bonzi Wells, and still have this Tracy McGrady character. And of course, the most significant change of all is Yao's evolution.

I'm calling it right here, right now. The Rockets are better than the Spurs.

fluid.forty.one · 11-14-2006, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

They're no better than they were last year.

Yeah but they were pretty damn good last year.

Spurs were fantastic last year, rockets sucked (only due to injuries).

This year I think they will both be fantastic, but all of the main spurs are proven champions.. while neither of the superstars in Houston have made it past the first round.

I think some key player will have an injury still in Houston, but even without an injury I still think the Spurs are a bigger threat.

nashtymavsfan13 · 11-14-2006, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I think some key player will have an injury still in Houston, but even without an injury I still think the Spurs are a bigger threat.

I agree.

The Spurs were great last year, and until proven otherwise I think they will be better than the Rockets this year.

RoxFan · 11-14-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I just can't allow myself to say that until 40-50 games are played this year.

That is kinda where I am right now. I am THRILLED to see the Rox playing so well, but with less than 10% of the season completed,there is a LOOOOONG way to go before they have proven anything. Legacies are made in June, ask Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem.

Big Shot Rob · 11-14-2006, 11:44 AM

Yao is on pace to being an MVP. His points have been rising every year that he has been in the NBA. He is a fantastic player and a true sportsman--a real gem.

I agree with this thread--the Rockets are scary. It will be interesting to see what happens tonight between the Spurs and the Rockets.

Big Shot Rob · 11-14-2006, 11:51 AM

PS--

One of the great things about the Rockets playing so well is that we will truly have a "Texas Triangle." Put the rest of the league on notice--Don't Mess with Texas!"

Dirkenstien · 11-14-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shot Rob

PS--

One of the great things about the Rockets playing so well is that we will truly have a "Texas Triangle." Put the rest of the league on notice--Don't Mess with Texas!"

Seriously, that has to be the most dreaded road trip for every other team in the NBA.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-14-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Yeah but they were pretty damn good last year.

Spurs were fantastic last year, rockets sucked (only due to injuries).

And your point is?

You can not- CAN NOT- judge anything about the Rockets based on last year. That would not only be dumb, but just plain unfair.

I you want to gage this year's Rockets, disregard last year completely, and take a look instead at the 51-win Rockets of 04-05. I think this year's team is picking up exactly where that one left off.

The Rockets got better... a lot better IMO. The Spurs didn't. Period.

Quote:

This year I think they will both be fantastic, but all of the main spurs are proven champions.. while neither of the superstars in Houston have made it past the first round.

Proven champions? Yeah, in 2005. That's irrelevant now. Do you think that logic applies to the Mavericks as well? Because if that's the case, the Mavericks should never have had a chance against the Spurs last year. After all, the Spurs are "proven champions."

I swear, playoff experience is quite a bit overrated. You know, the first time MJ and the Bulls went to the finals, they played the Lakers. For the Lakers, it was their ninth trip to the finals in eleven years, and they had already won 5 titles. The result? Bulls win 4-1. I don't care whose proven and who isn't. When two teams meet, the better team will always win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I think some key player will have an injury still in Houston, but even without an injury I still think the Spurs are a bigger threat.

Just a wild guess that has no place in actual debate as to which is a better team. Of course it's possible that one of their players (McGrady in particulaer) could suffer an injury, but you're willing to bank on that?
Besides, for the Spurs, Duncan is just as likely to be injured as Yao or McGrady. I will say this though; the Spurs (and the Mavs) better HOPE one of the Rockets key players is injured.

Quote:

I agree.

The Spurs were great last year, and until proven otherwise I think they will be better than the Rockets this year.

That's just silly. You sound like those idiots on TNT. "Until proven otherwise they will be better." What? I suppose you didn't think the Mavs were as good as the Spurs last year either? If you did- if you really thought to yourself "the Spurs are better until the Mavs prove otherwise.,"- then I pity you. And I can prouly say that I predicted far before the season started last year that the Mavs would beat the Spurs, and I was correct. I also predicted that Miami would beat Detroit in the ECF.

I'm not trying to gloat, I'm trying to make a point. The point is, I make predictions based on what I see now, not what I saw a year ago, or two, four, or seven years ago.

Open your eyes. Forget about who's "proven" and who isn't. I don't care how "proven" the Spurs are, because when figuring at the beginning of the season which team is better than the other, past accolades mean two things; Jack and shit, and Jack left town. Of course, that's not to say looking back isn't a useful tool to gage how good a team is now, merely by comparison. But one team having won championships in the past, or being "proven" as people like to say, doesn't make them anymore likely to win one this year than another team that IMO has more firepower.

I'm calling it right now, again. The Rockets are better than the Spurs.

CheezeyBoy22 · 11-14-2006, 05:31 PM

TheSpiralGoeson,

I would agree with you more. Right now the Rockets are sitting in a good spot. I'm from Houston and we don't really get any respect when it comes to our team. One of the reasons is because of what had happened last year. With all the injuries from last year, we have a lot to prove. One of the things people tend to forget that we haven't even got Bonzi Wells in the mix and we still have a trade expection worth 4.2 mil in which from what we hear that they are going to use. Now who we pick up i have no idea.

As Hakeem did in the 90's, the Rockets of now is starting to form like that. I'm not saying we are gonna win a championship this year, but we are looking good at the moment. We still have a lot prove though since we are only 7 games into the season.

Tokey41 · 11-14-2006, 06:19 PM

Betting a Housten player gets an injury is a silly guess? Did you even watch the NBA last year? With Yaos foot and Tmacs back (and evolution of style of play) it's a very legit concern.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-14-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Betting a Housten player gets an injury is a silly guess? Did you even watch the NBA last year? With Yaos foot and Tmacs back (and evolution of style of play) it's a very legit concern.

Seeing it as a "very legit concern" is fine. But betting on it? Yes, that's very silly.

And what about last year? Yao had had a nasty toe for his entire career, and it would seem that he got it fixed for good, because he was incredible for the rest of the season. T-Mac? His back is a concern, but he's the Rockets second option now. And I'm sure as hell not going to bet on T-Mac missing the playoffs, or his back hindering the team to the point of non-contention. Yeah, his back is always a concern, but is T-mac really any more prone to back injury than Dirk is to ankle injuries? I don't really think so, and I'm sure as hell not going to bet on Dirk missing playoff time because of his ankles.

DelNegro · 11-14-2006, 07:11 PM

Health alone will make the rockets better, and they did add some nice pieces, but those pieces were all in the backcourt. Up front they get real thin real quick. Yao's become a dominant player, but after that you're looking at Juwon Howard, 6-6 Chuck Hayes, two guys in Novak and Padgett who are merely spot up shooters and 89 year old Dikembe Mutombo.

During a playoff series that lack of depth up front is going to get exploited. During the regular season they'll be able to hide it for the most part because most of the teams they'll be facing have absolutely no idea what to do about Yao and TMac, and so they'll win 50+ games. Once postseason hits though they'll only stick around for as long as they can duck the Spurs, Mavs or Suns. The Clippers could probably take out the rockets as well.

Dirkenstien · 11-14-2006, 07:34 PM

Time to bring back the Russian Bear?

birdsanctuary · 11-14-2006, 09:09 PM

They were damn scary last year...

The only redeming light of hope on the rickets is Yao. McCrappy is a choker; choked in Toronto, choked in Orlando, and choked against the Mavs in game 7...

You are what you are... so I guess I'm agreeing with you the Rickets are scary... ooooooh... boo!... I'm scared, my knees are shaking...

Flacolaco · 11-14-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm calling it right now, again. The Rockets are better than the Spurs.

Maybe tonight will cool people down a little on the Rockets.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-15-2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Maybe tonight will cool people down a little on the Rockets.

Son, if you think I'm going to change the opinion I've formed of the Rockets based on their roster, and the belief I've held for about 4 years now that Yao would one day be a superstar, because of one loss to the Spurs in November (without Bonzi no less) you best think again.

You know, so far the Mavs have lost more games than they've won. I suppose I should "cool down a little" on them too?

I stand by my statement that this year's Rockets are better than this year's Spurs.

Edit: For the record, I thought the Rockets could've had a shot at the playoffs LAST YEAR, even without McGrady, had Van Gundy and the Rockets guards not had their collective heads up their asses. All they had to do was give Yao the friggin ball, but instead they insisted on have him constantly-and I do mean CONSTANLY setting picks, and giving the ball to Luther Head or some other spare.

Everyone seems to think I'm hyped up on the Rockets because of 6 games... Check some of my earlier posts. I've ALWAYS maintained that Yao would be unstoppable one day, and I've always maintained that the Rockets would be a championship caliber team if they improved their backcourt, which they have done.

And again, for the record, I hope everyone else is right. I really do... I love my Mavericks as much as I love anything else in this world. I really, really hope I'm wrong about the Rockets, because I want to see the Mavs win a championship. And if indeed I am wrong about the Rockets, then I am supremely confident that the Mavs are going back to the finals. Maybe this whole thing is more about the Spurs then it is about the Rockets, because the Spurs just flat out don't concern me. The two teams were pretty evenly matched last year, but the Mavs came out on top. But this year the Mavs got better IMO, and the Spurs didnt. The Spurs scare me as much as the Suns do, which is to say, they don't.

Maybe I just prefer the evil I know to the evil I don't know, but I'm of the honest opinion that the Spurs are the third best team in Texas.

mqywaaah · 11-15-2006, 04:09 AM

1. Mavs
2. Rockets
3. Spurts

MavsX · 11-15-2006, 08:23 AM

they cant make it. wells -hurt. tmac-hurt. yao-hurt...nough said

101 6 7 · 11-15-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqywaaah

1. Mavs
2. Rockets
3. Spurts

In the matchup this year:

Mavs: 0-2
Rockets: 1-1
Spurs: 2-0 (both on the road)

Your logic is impeccable.

Also, anyone who thinks the Spurs '05-'06 = Spurs '06-'07 hasn't been paying attention.

Duncan's foot is healed, he is in MVP form again; that's HUGE.

Parker's jumper is more consistent.

The new centers are more active and athletic.

Oh yeah; AND you don't have a whole lot of improvement needed to a team that won 63 games. Plus, the Spurs aren't defending a title.

MavsX · 11-15-2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101 6 7

In the matchup this year:

Mavs: 0-2
Rockets: 1-1
Spurs: 2-0 (both on the road)

Your logic is impeccable.

Also, anyone who thinks the Spurs '05-'06 = Spurs '06-'07 hasn't been paying attention.

Duncan's foot is healed, he is in MVP form again; that's HUGE.

Parker's jumper is more consistent.

The new centers are more active and athletic.

Oh yeah; AND you don't have a whole lot of improvement needed to a team that won 63 games. Plus, the Spurs aren't defending a title.

i take it your a spurs fan. and if thats the case...eat me

aexchange · 11-15-2006, 10:21 AM

i like the rockets, a lot and outside of the mavs, yao is easily one of my favorite players to watch in the league. a real class act.

but i still think the rockets lack a lot of athleticism. outside of tmac, they really don't have any outstanding quickness or exceptional athletes. they have yao, whose a dominant player, but more of a finesse guy. and they have a great glue guy in battier, but no one who really strikes me other than tmac as being an athletic machine. i think come playoff time, they'll be exposed by quicker teams on the perimeter.

that's the only thing in my opinion that keeps them from really being a 60 win team this year. that and injuries.

TheBlueVan · 11-15-2006, 10:30 AM

in all this love for the rockets i havent seen anyone mention jeff van gundy. i happen to think hes not that fantastic of a coach. decent, but not great. he has his system that he sticks to, and is not very adept at making situational changes. consequently, should the suns turn things around, i would expect them to be able to run right past the rockets. thats what we would have to do if we played them. push the ball so yao is less of factor. i personally think we match up pretty well against the rockets

DelNegro · 11-15-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

i like the rockets, a lot and outside of the mavs, yao is easily one of my favorite players to watch in the league. a real class act.

but i still think the rockets lack a lot of athleticism. outside of tmac, they really don't have any outstanding quickness or exceptional athletes. they have yao, whose a dominant player, but more of a finesse guy. and they have a great glue guy in battier, but no one who really strikes me other than tmac as being an athletic machine. i think come playoff time, they'll be exposed by quicker teams on the perimeter.

that's the only thing in my opinion that keeps them from really being a 60 win team this year. that and injuries.

Good point. Even beyond the athleticism, besides Yao and TMac they just don't have anyone who can create their own shot. They've got a good mix of guys who can contribute when the big two set the table for them, but when Yao & TMac struggle they've got no one who can step up and create his own scoring opportunities to help carry the load. The Spurs and Mavs are both much better suited to weather bad stretches by their top guys.

When Yao & TMac are going good the Rockets will be really good, but when those guys struggle, the Rockets are going to be in big trouble.

Dirkenstien · 11-15-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

When Yao & TMac are going good the Rockets will be really good, but when those guys struggle, the Rockets are going to be in big trouble.

I think you said it best here. But couldn't we say the same about Dirk? Granted, we have a much stronger and deeper roster than Houston, but if Dirk goes down I think Dallas goes along with it.

With Dirk we are championship contenders. Without him we may make it to the Western Finals, but that's where the road ends.

With Ming and Mcgrady, I think the Rockets are championship contenders also, but without either of them I don't think they make it past the first round in the playoffs.

DelNegro · 11-15-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I think you said it best here. But couldn't we say the same about Dirk? Granted, we have a much stronger and deeper roster than Houston, but if Dirk goes down I think Dallas goes along with it.

With Dirk we are championship contenders. Without him we may make it to the Western Finals, but that's where the road ends.

With Ming and Mcgrady, I think the Rockets are championship contenders also, but without either of them I don't think they make it past the first round in the playoffs.

Injuries to a superstar would pretty much screw anyone. I was talking more about what happens when your star players struggle within a game. If Dirk is on the bench and Terry is playing like crap the mavs can still find ways to weather the storm until Dirk gets back in or Terry comes out of a funk. For the Rockets if both their guys are either out of the game or shooting poorly they're pretty much screwed.

The rockets don't have extra guys who can take someone 1 on 1 like the Mavs do, and they don't have a good enough half court offense to create shots like the Spurs do. All the Rockets do in those situations is just move the ball around the perimeter until whoever has it with 5 seconds left on the shot clock jacks up a contested jump shot.

spreedom · 11-15-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

With Dirk we are championship contenders. Without him we may make it to the Western Finals, but that's where the road ends.

I don't understand how we'd get anywhere close to that level without Dirk.. even if we had home court throughout the playoffs, without Dirk I think we'd get beaten in the first round.

aexchange · 11-15-2006, 05:05 PM

we wouldnt make the playoffs without dirk.

end of discussion.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-15-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

they have yao, whose a dominant player, but more of a finesse guy.

You say that as if it's a bad thing...

Dirkadirkastan · 11-15-2006, 07:20 PM

The main problem the Mavs would face in a series against the Rockets is Yao. But Tim Duncan got whatever he wanted in our series with him last year, and he had a better supporting cast. But we still won the series.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-16-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101 6 7

In the matchup this year:

Mavs: 0-2
Rockets: 1-1
Spurs: 2-0 (both on the road)

Your logic is impeccable.

Also, anyone who thinks the Spurs '05-'06 = Spurs '06-'07 hasn't been paying attention.

Duncan's foot is healed, he is in MVP form again; that's HUGE.

Parker's jumper is more consistent.

The new centers are more active and athletic.

*yawn*

You're telling me he wasn't in MVP form in the second round?

Mavs and Rockets got better, Spurs didn't. Sure, Fransisco Elson may be more active and athletic than Rasho Nesterovic... but then why are they starting Oberto?

They made no significant roster moves IMO, and Bowen, Finley and Horry are all another year older.

Quote:

Oh yeah; AND you don't have a whole lot of improvement needed to a team that won 63 games.

Well, they lost to the Mavs last year because the only way they could match up with Dirk and Howard was to go small. So, maybe they didn't need a whole lot of improvement, but they needed definitely needed some. Forgive me, but I don't think Francisco Elson, Matt Bonner or Jackie Butler are going to solve their problems. They play the Mavs again in a seven game series, and they still have to go small to stand a chance.

I never said they weren't good. I'm just almost positive that the Mavs are better, even if just slightly, and I just have a strong feeling that the Rockets are better as well.

And for the record, I never said "Spurs '05-'06 = Spurs '06-'07," and that's not what I'm saying now. Frankly, Duncan's ankle aside, I think the Spurs were better last year than they are this year.