The Polish Hammer Bandwagon

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

And with your edit...considering that the few players that actually fit the Nene frame are pretty much on the teams that stand in our way (LA and Denver), I would say that concern is very valid and it's not being exaggerated.

I don't think either Bynum or Gasol fit that description.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't think either Bynum or Gasol fit that description.

I would disagree, I know you don't Frankenstein them together but Combined they're an issue. I know Damp really can't guard Gasol anymore. In the past he would just try to muscle him up and Gasol was done. I think Gasol has matured and has more confidence to where he knows he can get around Damp and muscle is all Damp has got. That trick might work on Bynum for a while but he's still strong enough and has enough speed to cause Damp issues. Plus, Bynum has a decent amount of post moves to where Damp isn't sure what is coming next and he'll have to be ready for anything. I just think their size as a whole presents a big enough problem, as opposed to the size/speed combo of Nene.

The center position isn't the same kind of player that it used to be back in the day. Damp's style/frame is a dying breed, you've gotta be quick and strong. I think a player with Gortat's skills and motor is a fit on any single team in the league. He's quick and I haven't seen a situation yet where you'd call him a soft Euro guy.

I know it was one game, and that's not enough to judge a performance, but I came away impressed with his D. Gortat showed me in a short stint that his frame is wide enough and his feet are quick enough to stagger Gasol and make things difficult. He is quick off his feet and he's got a lot of bounce, he can get off the ground multiple times really quickly. The defensive part of his game was the part I wasn't very familiar with but it seems consistent with his "report" if you made one for his style:
Quick, Aggressive, Relatively smart

I'm still not sure why Gortat is that big of an issue because we know Damp is gone in the near future and we don't have a legitimate guy in waiting who is ready to take the spot. And again, for a center who would be a fit on practically any roster in the league, and you can get him for the MLE instead of 8-10 million or trading away a wing player...I don't see this as bad. Carlisle has said he wants to get quicker and athletic at the 5 spot...ding ding ding.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I would disagree, I know you don't Frankenstein them together but Combined they're an issue. I know Damp really can't guard Gasol anymore. In the past he would just try to muscle him up and Gasol was done. I think Gasol has matured and has more confidence to where he knows he can get around Damp and muscle is all Damp has got. That trick might work on Bynum for a while but he's still strong enough and has enough speed to cause Damp issues. Plus, Bynum has a decent amount of post moves to where Damp isn't sure what is coming next and he'll have to be ready for anything. I just think their size as a whole presents a big enough problem, as opposed to the size/speed combo of Nene.

Neither Bynum nor Gasol are beating people with their speed. I could be wrong, but I don't see how Gortat helps us here any more than Damp does.

The center position isn't the same kind of player that it used to be back in the day. Damp's style/frame is a dying breed, you've gotta be quick and strong. I think a player with Gortat's skills and motor is a fit on any single team in the league. He's quick and I haven't seen a situation yet where you'd call him a soft Euro guy.

People have been saying this for several years now and frankly I think it's utter myth. It's just one of those conventional cliche's people just throw out there like "defense wins championships." The big, muscular centers of the league aren't going anywhere. Look around the league and I think you'll find a lot more Erick Dampiers than you will Amare's. Also, I think Gortat has a lot more in common with Dampier than you might think.

I know it was one game, and that's not enough to judge a performance, but I came away impressed with his D. Gortat showed me in a short stint that his frame is wide enough and his feet are quick enough to stagger Gasol and make things difficult. He is quick off his feet and he's got a lot of bounce, he can get off the ground multiple times really quickly. The defensive part of his game was the part I wasn't very familiar with but it seems consistent with his "report" if you made one for his style:
Quick, Aggressive, Relatively smart

Again, I could be dead wrong, but I just don't see Gortat matching up much better with the Lakers than Dampier does. As long as Dirk Nowitzki is our starting 4, we're always going to have problems defensively with any team that has multiple options in the low post.

I'm still not sure why Gortat is that big of an issue because we know Damp is gone in the near future and we don't have a legitimate guy in waiting who is ready to take the spot. And again, for a center who would be a fit on practically any roster in the league, and you can get him for the MLE instead of 8-10 million or trading away a wing player...I don't see this as bad. Carlisle has said he wants to get quicker and athletic at the 5 spot...ding ding ding.

This I do agree with. From a longevity standpoint, he would be an excellent pick up.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by ghazi

Pau Gasol can play center, and he was dumped in a salary move

Hornets last year tried to trade Chandler for a few scrub expirings.

It can happen!

Chandler is probably the only one out of the batch of centers we're interested in. Kaman won't be had for a salary dump, Camby won't, Shaq could be for a partial one but they'll want some talent to go with it. But of course, the guy who is probably a lock for a salary dump has a lot of risk that goes along with him.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Neither Bynum nor Gasol are beating people with their speed. I could be wrong, but I don't see how Gortat helps us here any more than Damp does.

People have been saying this for several years now and frankly I think it's utter myth. It's just one of those conventional cliche's people just throw out there like "defense wins championships." The big, muscular centers of the league aren't going anywhere. Look around the league and I think you'll find a lot more Erick Dampiers than you will Amare's. Also, I think Gortat has a lot more in common with Dampier than you might think.

Again, I could be dead wrong, but I just don't see Gortat matching up much better with the Lakers than Dampier does. As long as Dirk Nowitzki is our starting 4, we're always going to have problems defensively with any team that has multiple options in the low post.

This I do agree with. From a longevity standpoint, he would be an excellent pick up.

Speed, strength and length...I saw all of those work in favor of Gortat when he was defending Gasol, I think he even had a block on Bynum. I don't think he's an imposing figure for slashers, but he definitely tries and can get a decent share of blocks. I don't think Dirk's D or lack of it should mean it knocks Gortat's potential down. Right now Gortat might not help more than Damp does...but I'm willing to go out on a limb that he would be able to sooner rather than later.

BTW, Defense DOES win championships, haha.

Gortat does have similarities to Damp, but I think the speed and offense ability can set Gortat above Damp. Gortat can finish in the same style as Chandler, Hollins, Birdman etc...he rolls off of picks very well and can finish. Damp doesn't have the hands to consistently handle simple to slightly difficult passes. Gortat runs the floor and if he continues to do that it's making the opposing team's center have to run back even harder and exert more energy. Eventually, he would make you pay for not keeping up and you'd have to adjust.

I'm basing this off the thought that Stack is going to be dealt for a guard. So if you've taken care of the guard position, what's the next thing to go for...the big. I still believe the value and pricetag is great for a big man like him. If this is the ONLY move we make, then it's not going to make us an elite team, but I'm pretty confident this isn't the only signing/move we would make. I think we'll do our thing with Stack, we can do this move and still be able to pick up 1, maybe 2 quality vets at a bargain price. So a new wing player, Gortat, a rookie, and 1-2 new vets: that's a pretty good start.

At worst, I think Gortat can get to Damp's level of performance...and he has a decent shot at exceeding it with it only being his 2nd season in the league and his first full year. The point is I don't think he's hit his ceiling yet and that's what should be considered. What you see now probably won't be the end result to his game, it can get better. So if you have that in-house and at the price of most of the MLE, that's cashing in before you miss out.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Chandler is probably the only one out of the batch of centers we're interested in. Kaman won't be had for a salary dump, Camby won't, Shaq could be for a partial one but they'll want some talent to go with it. But of course, the guy who is probably a lock for a salary dump has a lot of risk that goes along with him.



Speed, strength and length...I saw all of those work in favor of Gortat when he was defending Gasol, I think he even had a block on Bynum. I don't think he's an imposing figure for slashers, but he definitely tries and can get a decent share of blocks. I don't think Dirk's D or lack of it should mean it knocks Gortat's potential down. Right now Gortat might not help more than Damp does...but I'm willing to go out on a limb that he would be able to sooner rather than later.

BTW, Defense DOES win championships, haha.

Gortat does have similarities to Damp, but I think the speed and offense ability can set Gortat above Damp. Gortat can finish in the same style as Chandler, Hollins, Birdman etc...he rolls off of picks very well and can finish. Damp doesn't have the hands to consistently handle simple to slightly difficult passes. Gortat runs the floor and if he continues to do that it's making the opposing team's center have to run back even harder and exert more energy. Eventually, he would make you pay for not keeping up and you'd have to adjust.

I'm basing this off the thought that Stack is going to be dealt for a guard. So if you've taken care of the guard position, what's the next thing to go for...the big. I still believe the value and pricetag is great for a big man like him. If this is the ONLY move we make, then it's not going to make us an elite team, but I'm pretty confident this isn't the only signing/move we would make. I think we'll do our thing with Stack, we can do this move and still be able to pick up 1, maybe 2 quality vets at a bargain price. So a new wing player, Gortat, a rookie, and 1-2 new vets: that's a pretty good start.

At worst, I think Gortat can get to Damp's level of performance...and he has a decent shot at exceeding it with it only being his 2nd season in the league and his first full year. The point is I don't think he's hit his ceiling yet and that's what should be considered. What you see now probably won't be the end result to his game, it can get better. So if you have that in-house and at the price of most of the MLE, that's cashing in before you miss out.

I don't necessarily disagree with anyting you're saying. It just depends on what we're expecting out of him. You could argue until you're blue in the face over which one is better. My only point is that I don't see him as a major improvement over Dampier. Now if we're thinking of Gortat purely as a long term Damp-replacement, then absolutely, he'd be a great pickup. However, I still haven't given up hope on Kaman. I know it's unlikely that he can be had for just a salary dump, but remember, it is the Clippers we're talking about here.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I don't necessarily disagree with anyting you're saying. It just depends on what we're expecting out of him. You could argue until you're blue in the face over which one is better. My only point is that I don't see him as a major improvement over Dampier. Now if we're thinking of Gortat purely as a long term Damp-replacement, then absolutely, he'd be a great pickup. However, I still haven't given up hope on Kaman. I know it's unlikely that he can be had for just a salary dump, but remember, it is the Clippers we're talking about here.

That's pretty much what it should come down to...Damp is certain to a departure as early as this summer and definitely the following summer at the latest. So why not go for it with a big relatively young center?

I don't see any reason to give up on Kaman but I definitely think they'll want Josh in a deal...and I know you're against that. That would still be somewhat of a salary dump, but they're getting pretty good talent in return. They want a SF in a return deal because they're not happy with Thorton and would rather have him come off the bench.