Plan B if D Wade and Lebron go elsewhere

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

If getting Bosh forces us to play Dirk at the 3 - then its a bad trade. We already have an elite PF in Dirk - we don't need to get another one. What we need is a premier scorer in the back-court. Iggy or JJ will do just fine.

As with most -- you miss the point with Dirk at the 3.

Dirk cannot play the 3 against all teams. He already plays the 3 lots of the time on the offensive end though, and sometimes plays it on the defensive end as well.

Dirks offensive game is that of a SF, he can drive and he can shoot outside. He has some PF post up moves, but it isn't really his strength.

He can play the SF against some players though, and I think Odom is one of them. There are several other lineups that he would just abuse the SF. In fact some teams have resorted to playing their SF against Dirk because he abuses the Pf's so badly.

As long as they have Marion, who cares though, because if you need to move Bosh to the C and Dirk to the PF for a while and Marion at the SF OK. Have a lineup that Dirk can play the SF, then Dirk/Bosh/Haywood. If Marion has to stay at the SF, then Dirk/Bosh/Haywood rotate between the PF/C depending on how tough the other teams Bigs are.

Dirk at the C is only bad when he ends up the last line of defense - offensively he is fine, and very few Centers can abuse him even in the post.

I am just saying that Dirk and Bosh could co-exist since they both work their offense differently, and both would be very hard to guard. They would both need a good defensive Center for part of the game with them against some teams though.

[Mavericks Rockets Fan]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As with most -- you miss the point with Dirk at the 3.

Dirk cannot play the 3 against all teams. He already plays the 3 lots of the time on the offensive end though, and sometimes plays it on the defensive end as well.

Dirks offensive game is that of a SF, he can drive and he can shoot outside. He has some PF post up moves, but it isn't really his strength.

He can play the SF against some players though, and I think Odom is one of them. There are several other lineups that he would just abuse the SF. In fact some teams have resorted to playing their SF against Dirk because he abuses the Pf's so badly.

As long as they have Marion, who cares though, because if you need to move Bosh to the C and Dirk to the PF for a while and Marion at the SF OK. Have a lineup that Dirk can play the SF, then Dirk/Bosh/Haywood. If Marion has to stay at the SF, then Dirk/Bosh/Haywood rotate between the PF/C depending on how tough the other teams Bigs are.

Dirk at the C is only bad when he ends up the last line of defense - offensively he is fine, and very few Centers can abuse him even in the post.

I am just saying that Dirk and Bosh could co-exist since they both work their offense differently, and both would be very hard to guard. They would both need a good defensive Center for part of the game with them against some teams though.

My issue with Dirk at the 3 has nothing to do with offense. Put Dirk and Bosh anywhere on the court at whatever position and they'd do wonders. My issue is strictly Dirk having to defend a 3.

If I remember correctly, MavsAddict didn't have Marion in the starting lineup, it was this:

Haywood
Bosh
Dirk
Roddy
Kidd

This means putting Bosh or Dirk on a 3. I'm sorry but that is a horrid mismatch...

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I am just saying that Dirk and Bosh could co-exist since they both work their offense differently, and both would be very hard to guard. They would both need a good defensive Center for part of the game with them against some teams though.

I'm not sure why you have this notion that Dirk and bosh work their games differently. They have a ton of overlap in their offensive games, and work from the same areas of the floor a lot.

Beyond that, they are not the kind of players that will create a lot of offense working off of each other. They can't pick and roll, and they're not going to be dive cutting while the other is at the high post.

Trying to figure out how to get Bosh and Dirk to coexist would certainly fall under the category of "good problem", but their offenses are really not compatible.

As to the position question, as I've said many times on this board, in the NBA you are what you can defend. Dirk is not a SF because he can not guard the majority of small forwards in the NBA. Obviously Marion provides enough flexibility that you could find certain matchups to make it work, but a Haywood/Bosh/Dirk front line could not be counted on to log big minutes or close games consistently.

The biggest plus for getting Bosh has nothing to do with playing with Dirk, it's the fact that you would have a franchise player after Dirk slips. Bosh and Dirk together in their primes is far from ideal.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not sure why you have this notion that Dirk and bosh work their games differently. They have a ton of overlap in their offensive games, and work from the same areas of the floor a lot.

Beyond that, they are not the kind of players that will create a lot of offense working off of each other. They can't pick and roll, and they're not going to be dive cutting while the other is at the high post.

Trying to figure out how to get Bosh and Dirk to coexist would certainly fall under the category of "good problem", but their offenses are really not compatible.

As to the position question, as I've said many times on this board, in the NBA you are what you can defend. Dirk is not a SF because he can not guard the majority of small forwards in the NBA. Obviously Marion provides enough flexibility that you could find certain matchups to make it work, but a Haywood/Bosh/Dirk front line could not be counted on to log big minutes or close games consistently.

The biggest plus for getting Bosh has nothing to do with playing with Dirk, it's the fact that you would have a franchise player after Dirk slips. Bosh and Dirk together in their primes is far from ideal.

Now this is some of the constructive debate I like.

From what I have seen though, you are only partially correct. Bosh's game is 18' in. He does lots from the FT line and elbow and is mainly but not exclusively a face up player. He also has some inside game, but gets in trouble there because he is not that bulky - much like Dirk.

Dirk has range out to 30' consistently. While he is not really a cutter, he can create at any time. Putting two 7' who both have range, but both can slash is a good thing.

While you don't think they could work off each other, I think they could offensively - but they would need cutters.

Now - as far as Dirk being a SF -- no he is not, and no he can't defend any of the elite SF's. He can defend the weaker ones though, and he can defend some of them. While you are correct that it wouldn't be a mainstay -- he could play there against some match-ups, and they could go Zone easy enough out of it - with Dirk, Bosh, and Haywood all on rotations to the middle.

Of course, Dirk couldn't defend the SF, but if they defended Dirk with a SF -- what keeps Dirk from posting up, or Bosh, or even Haywood? Size does make a difference.

Now offense isn't compatible -- means you couldn't set up the offense on both sides at the elbow -- ? ? I mean the reason for twin towers, and high low games, and availability of pick n roll either side -- with spot up Dirk is not even intriguing to you? You consider it to be incompatible.

Roddy, Butler, Marion, Dirk, Bosh -- should be nasty good on offense and very good on defense. Maybe you close games with this lineup.

Kidd, Stevenson, Marion, Bosh, Haywood -- with Dirk and Caron resting.

You know you can go Kidd, Caron, Marion, Dirk, Haywood - for large stretches if needed.

Kidd, Terry, Butler, Bosh, and Dirk could kill the zone.

While it wouldn't be traditional -- I can see where it would be very flexible if designed and run properly.


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Think Parish, McHale, Bird

[clutch#41]

im 110% down to get bosh..to me at SG its either dwade or Lebron..i dont see how JJ gets us over the "hump" or makes us signifantly better than last season..but bosh,dwade,or lebron makes us title contenders!