Handling Tim Duncan - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sp3nc3r13 · 05-07-2006, 06:37 PM

i still think we need to stay away from doubling duncan too much because i'd rather him take contested shots and possibly get fouled than for him to keep kicking it out to open 3 point shooters and cutters for easy baskets

would you agree or disagree?

Nemesis · 05-07-2006, 06:43 PM

How can we handle that guy in the upper deck, two rows from the top? If the mavs don't get that guy under control we are gonna have some major problems!!! He is killing us. Maybe the Beer Man can throw a few elbows to the face as he gives him his beer.

Agree? or disagree?

sp3nc3r13 · 05-07-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blab's Nemesis

How can we handle that guy in the upper deck, two rows from the top? If the mavs don't get that guy under control we are gonna have some major problems!!! He is killing us. Maybe the Beer Man can throw a few elbows to the face as he gives him his beer.

Agree? or disagree?

I don't know why your such an asshole but o.k.

endrity · 05-07-2006, 07:20 PM

I actually agree with you, Duncan had an AMAZING first half and the Spurs were still behind. The Mavs, or better yet AJ got scared, and decided to send second defenders which opened the perimeter too much. I don't care if TD scores 50 and we win, but AJ doesn't want anyone to do that to his team. He has too much pride for that. But all he has to do is see last year's WCF. Stoudemire averaged what, 38 against them. But the Suns still lost because Q, Marion and even JJ were mostly contolled. Their perimeter shots were not there. I think AJ has to understand that we can score on them. Their perimeter players are simply slow, just run that pick and roll from the top of the key every single time with Dirk, and something good will happen.

bcrav4 · 05-07-2006, 07:48 PM

Okay, the Mavs shot 41.6 pct and the Spurs shot 41.3 pct from the feild. At the 3pt line we only allowed them to shoot 3-13 or 21.3% so the D was fine.

Murphy3 · 05-07-2006, 08:04 PM

Duncan killed Diop. Dampier did a very good job on him. But, Diop bit on way too many of his fakes. So, the Mavs might have to help out when Diop's in the game. But, they need to stay away from doing that with Damp in the game. Obviously, this means that I'd rather see Damp in the game way more often than not.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 08:08 PM

I thought this was what the Mavs did. We at times doubled Duncan but it didn't kill us. Parker missed several shots that Duncan kicked out to him as well did Finley, Barry and Ginobilli. Maybe they don't miss these shots next game but today the Mavs did a good job of not letting others go off on them.

EastDallasCowboy · 05-07-2006, 09:16 PM

Murph brought up a good point, in that Damp had a very solid game today.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 10:02 PM

Damp played well defensively. There was two possession offensively where he had a easy dunk or lay in and as usual fumbled the ball. He's not known for his hands but I don't think its too far fetched to ask him to make those catches.

endrity · 05-07-2006, 10:36 PM

I felt Diop played him much better in the 2nd half except when he bit on the pump fake and it gave Duncan an and1 which he missed. We can play Duncan one on one. Even after today's game I feel the mavs have every opportunity to do that succesfully. They need to start positioning Dirk better though. That is the key to the series really.

EastDallasCowboy · 05-07-2006, 10:46 PM

5 blocks is pretty freaking impressive.

As for his hands, well, Damp is David La Fleur....it's really that simple.

MFFL · 05-07-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanantojames

NO ONE ONE THE MAVS CAN HANDLE TIM DUNCAN. TIM PLAYED LIKE AN MVP CANIDATE TODAY. FACE IT TIM WILL KEEP HAVING BIG GAMES AGAINST THE MAVS

The Caps Lock key is not a toy.

You have failed your mandatory IQ test to post here - please return to the board from which you came.

WraithXx · 05-07-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastDallasCowboy

5 blocks is pretty freaking impressive.

As for his hands, well, Damp is David La Fleur....it's really that simple.

or Larry Allen playing wide reciever

AxdemxO · 05-08-2006, 12:44 AM

Our centers will adjust and wont go for some of the fakes.We should play Duncan like we did today....and things will b fine...once the centers adjust and stop going for the fakes. It was a very good game for us on defense. Oddens was a diff. story.

Tokey41 · 05-08-2006, 12:53 AM

Awesome game, we don't need to change that much... c'mon we were up and just didn't capitalize. Duncan simply won't have another game like that, we don't need a double team but if we do change anything I say we try to make Duncan work against Dirk or Josh on D a lot more and spend him on that end so he doesn't have a lot to throw back at us, our perimeter D will take care of the rest.

Arne · 05-08-2006, 03:57 AM

If the refs had not given Duncan two very questionable calls, this would've been a lot easier.

aexchange · 05-08-2006, 07:33 AM

duncan played like a mvp. he seems to have gotten over his foot problems. we'll need to step it up. but i like our chances. no one said that this series was going to be easy.

Winwall · 05-08-2006, 08:01 AM

if we were allowed to play duncan with the same physical intensity that bruce uses to defend dirk, he would average 10 points or less this series.
instead he is untouchable and as soons as contact is created (even if he initiates the contact) he gets the foul call. how can you expect a fair match if there are 2 different rulesets for each team ?

101 6 7 · 05-08-2006, 08:50 AM

Not enough fouls to give to single Duncan when he plays like that; Mavs centers picked up 6 in the first quarter.

Dirk is going to have to play like the MVP he should have been this season if Duncan's going to play like that.

Spur's ancillary players (Manu, Parker, maybe Finley & Barry) are probably going to play much better than that game 2.

101 6 7 · 05-08-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winwall

if we were allowed to play duncan with the same physical intensity that bruce uses to defend dirk, he would average 10 points or less this series.
instead he is untouchable and as soons as contact is created (even if he initiates the contact) he gets the foul call. how can you expect a fair match if there are 2 different rulesets for each team ?

Unfortunately that is the NBA's way; and has been for a long time; Mavs HAVE to play through that - just like the Spurs did to eventually get past Kobe & Shaq. Duncan is in that Magic/Bird class - nearly untouchable.

He's not in the MJ class, however (that is being reserved for Lebron).

vjz · 05-08-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101 6 7

Unfortunately that is the NBA's way; and has been for a long time; Mavs HAVE to play through that - just like the Spurs did to eventually get past Kobe & Shaq. Duncan is in that Magic/Bird class - nearly untouchable.

He's not in the MJ class, however (that is being reserved for Lebron).

Exactly. We fans can't complain. Hopefully, AJ complaining may help a bit the next game, but we gotta play thru it. Making excuses will not help.

jacktruth · 05-08-2006, 11:48 AM

You have to guard Duncan by position.

I know that is easier said than done, but Mavs centers should be studying every step Duncan takes without the ball. That is what makes him so great. He knows how to sneak his way around the paint and get 2 feet from the basket. Rarely should his man focus on Help defense. It may look good to get a block on Parker, but it is useless if Duncan puts it back in. Duncan is the best rebounder I've ever seen.

That is how Bowen guards Dirk. He knows where Dirk wants to be and he beats him to it.

allahu akbar · 05-08-2006, 12:32 PM

play duncan one- on - one.

the spurs are at their best when they aren't playing duncan isolation.

Duncan loves the double team. There are times where he'll hold on to the ball longer then

he should just so that he can bait the help defense into doubling him, so he can throw out

pass to an open shooter.

Dtownsfinest · 05-08-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winwall

if we were allowed to play duncan with the same physical intensity that bruce uses to defend dirk, he would average 10 points or less this series.
instead he is untouchable and as soons as contact is created (even if he initiates the contact) he gets the foul call. how can you expect a fair match if there are 2 different rulesets for each team ?

The difference between Dirk and Duncan is that Duncan is primarily in the post. Dirk's out on the perimeter or mid range. Dirk has a better chance of getting a foul call going inside the lane than he does shooting a mid range jumper.

bernardos70 · 05-08-2006, 01:54 PM

That's the reason, but not a justification. A foul is a foul...... is a foul.

alexamenos · 05-08-2006, 02:08 PM

On timmy's 31 and 13..........

The Star Telegram has a nice little breakdown on Timmy's playoff v. Mavs in '01 and '03. 31 pts and 13 rbds ain't so bad compared to....

01 game 2 -- 25 ppg & 22 rbd
01 game 4 -- 29 & 18
01 game 5 -- 32 & 20

03 game 1 -- 40 & 15
03 game 2 -- 31 & 15
03 game 3 -- 34 & 24
03 game 4 -- 21 & 20

In retrospect, 31 and 13 is a pretty pedestrian performance by Timmy against the Mavs. The guy has been a monster in the past, he's still dammed good, but he ain't what he used to be and the mavs are a little tougher up front.

cheers

Dtownsfinest · 05-08-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

That's the reason, but not a justification. A foul is a foul...... is a foul.

Yea that's correct but at the same time the refs aren't going to bail you out. You have to sell a foul to these refs. Settling for midrangers isn't going to get you a foul.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2006, 04:32 PM

Duncan wasn't selling fouls. He was simply getting the same respect down low that Kobe Bryant gets 20 feet from the bucket.

GermanBlitzkrieg · 05-08-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Duncan wasn't selling fouls. He was simply getting the same respect down low that Kobe Bryant gets 20 feet from the bucket.

Which is why I may say "SCREW IT!" to the NBA. My time is too valuable to waste watching a fixed league. This favortism crap STINKS. Oh well, my sig has said it for years...

GermanBlitzkrieg · 05-08-2006, 04:56 PM

Also, because Bowen looked like he was going a*** on Dirk on Dirk's last possession (without a call, of course), he shall henceforth be deemed and addresed as "BrokeBack Bowen". That is all. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

dalmations202 · 05-08-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winwall

if we were allowed to play duncan with the same physical intensity that bruce uses to defend dirk, he would average 10 points or less this series.
instead he is untouchable and as soons as contact is created (even if he initiates the contact) he gets the foul call. how can you expect a fair match if there are 2 different rulesets for each team ?

You change the rulesets by not being DENIED. It is 80% mental 20% physical. The Mavs have to get more physical with Duncan than Bowen is with Dirk, and when the fouls are called with bias, then Dallas has to not cave in, but attack more ferociously. If Dirk fouls out, and half the team fouls out, then the refs are examined because the "stars" are not playing.

Why do you think Shaq is willing to tear into officiating, because Marketing $$$ rule the league, not players. Follow the $$$$.

Murphy3 · 05-08-2006, 05:23 PM

You can't guard Duncan the same way that Bowen guards Dirk. The Mavs would have three centers fouled out by the end of the first. With Bowen on Dirk, you have to work with the assumption that just about anything goes for Bowen. So, you have to work around that. How do you free Dirk up especially when Bowen is raping Dirk and the Spurs are sending Duncan at him? How do you make the Spurs pay? If Bowen is going to rape Dirk and Duncan is likely to double, it's a safe bet that Dirk won't have a tremendous scoring series. So, the Mavs have to make them pay for using their two best defenders on him.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-08-2006, 05:32 PM

Don't do anything different in game 2 accept Win the damn thing next time. How bout that?

jacktruth · 05-08-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

You can't guard Duncan the same way that Bowen guards Dirk. The Mavs would have three centers fouled out by the end of the first. With Bowen on Dirk, you have to work with the assumption that just about anything goes for Bowen. So, you have to work around that. How do you free Dirk up especially when Bowen is raping Dirk and the Spurs are sending Duncan at him? How do you make the Spurs pay? If Bowen is going to rape Dirk and Duncan is likely to double, it's a safe bet that Dirk won't have a tremendous scoring series. So, the Mavs have to make them pay for using their two best defenders on him.

Tell me more. How do you do it?

Locked_Up_Tonight · 05-08-2006, 06:55 PM

Dirk will have to guard Duncan at some point. And I do believe Dirk will get some leeway that some of the Mav centers will not get. Will it hurt the Mavs? Maybe maybe not.

But I am willing to bet that Dirk could do a good job on Duncan. The problem however is the Robert Horry situation.

I know it sounds crazy but:
Dirk
Howard
Stack
Terry
Harris

It seems like a mismatch defensively. But I don't think it would be at all. Put Dirk on Duncan. Put Josh Howard on Ginobili. Put Stackhouse on Robert Horry. Put Jason Terry on Bruce Bowen. Put Devin on Tony Parker. Now, if they decide to go to Tim Duncan. Fine. Make him score over you Dirk but give up no and 1s. If they think about putting the ball in Bowen or Robert Horry's hands? Excellent. Because I don't think either one of them can score enough to justify them getting the ball on offense. (It is very similar to Adrian Griffin trying to score on Duncan.)

(And btw, Josh Howard at power forward is a lot better than Van Horn at power forward. Josh has the ability to rebound, slash, and draw fouls. Something Van Horn cannot do.)

alexamenos · 05-08-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

It seems like a mismatch defensively. But I don't think it would be at all. Put Dirk on Duncan.

Pop goes into Dirk every possession, for as long as it takes to foul Dirk out of the game. Dirk either a) fouls out quickly; b) gives Duncan an easy shot possession after possession; and/or c) Dirk is so worn out on the defensive end of the court that he can't even get 8 of 20 to go down.

I say take your 12 fouls with Diop and Dampier, double him occassionally to keep the spurs guessing, and somebody please clock Bruce Bowen upside the head for good measure.

Cheers

Locked_Up_Tonight · 05-08-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Pop goes into Dirk every possession, for as long as it takes to foul Dirk out of the game. Dirk either a) fouls out quickly; b) gives Duncan an easy shot possession after possession; and/or c) Dirk is so worn out on the defensive end of the court that he can't even get 8 of 20 to go down.

I'm not talking about using Dirk the entire game to guard Duncan.

Dtownsfinest · 05-08-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Duncan wasn't selling fouls. He was simply getting the same respect down low that Kobe Bryant gets 20 feet from the bucket.

He made contact with Dampier on every foul he recieved from the refs. I'll admit Dampier had good position on some of the fouls but Duncan intitiated the contact on each foul.

Dtownsfinest · 05-08-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

Dirk will have to guard Duncan at some point. And I do believe Dirk will get some leeway that some of the Mav centers will not get. Will it hurt the Mavs? Maybe maybe not.

But I am willing to bet that Dirk could do a good job on Duncan. The problem however is the Robert Horry situation.

I know it sounds crazy but:
Dirk
Howard
Stack
Terry
Harris

It seems like a mismatch defensively. But I don't think it would be at all. Put Dirk on Duncan. Put Josh Howard on Ginobili. Put Stackhouse on Robert Horry. Put Jason Terry on Bruce Bowen. Put Devin on Tony Parker. Now, if they decide to go to Tim Duncan. Fine. Make him score over you Dirk but give up no and 1s. If they think about putting the ball in Bowen or Robert Horry's hands? Excellent. Because I don't think either one of them can score enough to justify them getting the ball on offense. (It is very similar to Adrian Griffin trying to score on Duncan.)

(And btw, Josh Howard at power forward is a lot better than Van Horn at power forward. Josh has the ability to rebound, slash, and draw fouls. Something Van Horn cannot do.)

Watch out now lol. That's Nellie ball right there. We don't want to go back to that now do we lol? But I do agree. I'd like to see that lineup when Diop and Dampier are both in foul trouble rather than sub in Benga. Just to try it. It would definately work against a Duncan, Bowen, Finley or Barry, Ginobilli and Parker lineup. That's a lineup Pop went with a lot in the first round against the Kings. Yesterday he didn't go with that lineup. He went more traditional and always had Duncan in there with Nazr, Nesto or Horry and that may cause that small lineup some trouble.

jleefilled · 05-08-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

He made contact with Dampier on every foul he recieved from the refs. I'll admit Dampier had good position on some of the fouls but Duncan intitiated the contact on each foul.

So, what are you saying, Duncan didn't receive obligatory special treatment from the refs?