Mike Finley - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 11-21-2003, 04:26 PM

The Stickman has his own thread. I just wanted to start a thread congratulating Finley on his good defensive play of late. Fin's still struggled at times on the defensive side of the ball. But hell, this is the NBA. The player on the other team is paid to make big plays so you can bet that they will do so from time to time.

However, I have been encouraged by the defensive play of Mike Finley recently. He's consistently done a good job on the glass. He's picking up more steals recently than he has in the not too distant past. He's doing a better job of cutting off the drive. Basically, he's doing a good job on that side of the ball.

No, I don't plan on beating you over the head with stats concerning Fin's defense over the past few games. I just believe that it's greatly improved over what he threw out there for much of the regular season last year and the season before (although he was solid defensively throughout the SA playoff series last year).

Fin, keep up the good work. You're adjusting quite nicely to a slightly reduced role on offense. How many reductions does that make it? I'm not sure, I lost count. But, keep up the good work on the defensive end.

bogey · 11-21-2003, 04:45 PM

He's all over the place. He has blocked shots, steals, defensive shut downs, he has altered shots, etc. I've been very pleased with Fin as of late. His offense is starting to come around too. The man is a stud and he is playing with heart and passion....and success.

MikeB · 11-21-2003, 04:50 PM

I agree. Fin has been doing a much better job on the defensive end. I am glad that his offense seems to be coming around some as well. It seems to me that he is concentrating on the D-side so much that it may have affected his jumper. One good thing is that ever since Dirk got hit in the head in Memphis...Fin has taken more shots and taken the ball to the hole more effectively which will make the Mavs a better team down the road. Congrats Mike and thanks for being the great team player you are.

jacktruth · 11-21-2003, 04:54 PM

It helps that he doesn't have to play both the 2 and 3 spot while he is on the floor. He was stretched way too thin last year. Nellie asked Finley to do a lot of things last year. Having more mid-size talent this year has helped him focus and be very solid and effective.

He has really shown himself as a leader this year. He really comes alive in parts of the game to encourage his teamates and set a tone. He is doing it on both ends of the floor. I think he is showing again that he is the heart of this team.

Murphy3 · 11-21-2003, 05:07 PM

Good point JackTruth. I know we discussed the same thing last year until we were balck and blue in the face especially with rebounding. Fin's simply not a good rebounder at the 3 spot but he suddenly turns into a good rebounding two guard when he's allowed to play his natural position.

Dirkenstien · 11-21-2003, 05:21 PM

Finley is the heart of the team and although it may be hard for stat crazed fans to pick up on how much he means to the rest of the club, those of us who can look deeper than stats see what he really brings to this club and immensely appreciate the love, passion, and heart he brings to every game and leaves on every floor. Congratulations and keep it up so we can see you bring that trophy home to Dallas this year.

Jamisonite · 11-21-2003, 05:27 PM

I agree. Fin is what made the mavericks the team they are today. Before Dirk and Nash were all stars Fin was all we had.

ames7 · 11-21-2003, 06:34 PM

4 steals, 2 blocks last night. He really is all over the place. It's great to see. Always good to see players respond when they don't do as well as maybe you expect. Since having 4 TOs vs GS second game of the season, he hasn't had more than 2 a game since. Hey, & only 1 foul last night, impressive.

bernardos70 · 11-21-2003, 06:42 PM

It seems he just thought "hey, my shot is not going down.... I need to help this team so I'll focus on defense and rebounding." And IMO, he is the best mavs defender. He has done a remarkable job of keeping his man in front of him. Gotta love the intensity.

Rod1975 · 11-21-2003, 07:21 PM

I hate to break up the Finley love fest here... Although I agree on all counts that his defense is excellent and he's filling up the stat sheet with stls,asts,rebs,blks etc... However he's making some glaring mistakes on the offensive end.

1)He's not passing out of double teams quick enough.(granted he may be freaked that he still demands one occasionally)

2)He's getting himself into trouble while the shot clock is running down.(forcing him to make those "NO NO NO....YES YES YES" type shots he sometimes makes)

3)Honestly...what the hell is he doing bringing the ball up the floor into the half court set? Everyone knows he does'nt have handles and that he's not going anywhere...Nellie is'nt fooling anyone with that ploy. The more he brings it up into the half court offense the more we seem to struggle getting a shot off in time. If Nash or Walker are on the floor (or any other ballhandlers) Fin has no business handling in the half court. He's right there with Najera and Jamison in handles IMO. (this is'nt entirely his fault, Nellie thinks he's fooling the defense, but he's not)

Good stuff:

1)He's recognizing when he's open and when he's not alot better now.(I guess all the options are helping him not to force it)

2)He's taking it to the rack more.(obvious plus)

3)Has a knack for making big plays at crucial moments. (getting the and one, getting an o-reb etc..)

grndmstr_c · 11-21-2003, 07:29 PM

Rod, valid criticisms. His offensive game has been off much of this season, but you gotta love it when the defense is there. With the weapons we have I'd be more concerned about defensive weaknesses from Mike at this stage than I am about his offensive woes. As to Fin brining the ball up the court, if the alternative is Best dribbling down the shot clock, I don't mind it so much, though Walker is probably a better choice for that than Fin. Shouldn't happen with Nash out there, though (unless we're breaking, of course).

kingrex · 11-21-2003, 07:31 PM

I'm still not convinced that Finley has the handles to consistently take the ball to the hole. If he has to dribble more than 4 times, it seems he has a tendency to lose the ball. Now this doesn't happen all the time, but often enough for me to notice.

I do think Finley is most effective playing the 2-spot. It also seems that now that his load on offense has decreased, he has been freed to contribute in other aspects of the game like help defense and rebounding. Mike is a solid player that as the 4th or 5th option is down-right great.

kingrex · 11-21-2003, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Rod1975

1)He's not passing out of double teams quick enough.(granted he may be freaked that he still demands one occasionally)

2)He's getting himself into trouble while the shot clock is running down.(forcing him to make those "NO NO NO....YES YES YES" type shots he sometimes makes)

3)Honestly...what the hell is he doing bringing the ball up the floor into the half court set? Everyone knows he does'nt have handles and that he's not going anywhere...Nellie is'nt fooling anyone with that ploy. The more he brings it up into the half court offense the more we seem to struggle getting a shot off in time. If Nash or Walker are on the floor (or any other ballhandlers) Fin has no business handling in the half court. He's right there with Najera and Jamison in handles IMO. (this is'nt entirely his fault, Nellie thinks he's fooling the defense, but he's not)

I wanted to address all your points:
1) I think that could be said for all the Mavs. Walker & Nash are the best at this, but Jamison, Finley & Dirk need more improvement. As this team gets better acquainted and they get to know each others movements/tendencies I hope this will improve.

2) Again, this can be said for many of the Mavs players. It seems to be Nellie's way of burning clock. Nellie's favorite version of the half court set is to clear one side for one player to make a one on one move. So that player will usually be asked to keep dribbling until the clock winds down. Nellie hasn't relied on this set as often as before, but I've noticed when he does that's when we usually see Finley do what you described.

3) You and grandmaster pretty much say it all.

Chiwas · 11-21-2003, 09:15 PM

I'll tell only one thing about Finley:

If he decided to use always his potential, he would be the best player of the Mavs, or the second, very close to Dirk.

But there is something that doesn't let him do it, some kind of complacency. Or too much unselfishness.

I know it's a mental issue, not physical or about talent, cause when he wants, makes very good plays.

If Finley would have the mentality of Ginobili or Walker, say, always trying to cause damage -or avoid receiving it from- to the other team, in every play, Finley would be All Star many more times.

Because he can.

MavsFanFinley · 11-22-2003, 01:10 AM

Here's his stats in the last 6 games:

His shooting nights against the Spurs really dragged his fg% down. His ft attempts doesn't show how much attacking he's been doing. Rebounds are down, but his assists are up. The 2 steals and a block a game are pretty sweet. What is most impressive is the amount of minutes he's playing, the aggressiveness to the basket all the while taking care of the ball. The stats don't tell the story about how's helped keep the oponent from going off.

251 minutes (42)

39-93 fg (42%)

10-29 3-pt (35%)

14-17 ft (82%)

102 points (17)

28 rbs (4.6)

20 as (3.3)

12 stls (2)

5 to's (.8)

6 blks (1)

dude1394 · 11-22-2003, 01:25 AM

This thread is right-on murph. I noticed fins' defense really picking up against Odom and the miami heat. He really played hard-nosed and I think he's continuing it.

dirno2000 · 11-22-2003, 01:29 AM

He has looked much better. I still wish Nellie would trust Howard more. Fin is not the iron man he used to be, so I hate to see Nellie revert to using him as a security blanket.

Murphy3 · 11-24-2003, 09:24 AM

The minutes are impressive MFF. However, I'd love to see him playing considerably less. It's a long season, and I'd love to have a relatively fresh Fin for the playoffs.

But, it's also imperative that the Mavs finish in the top 3 in the West...preferably the top 2. So I'm not willing to give up less minutes in exchange for a win or two less.

MavsFanFinley · 11-24-2003, 03:41 PM

You're right Murph. I don't like him playing so many minutes either. Now that Delk is back, he should grab some of those minutes easily. If not him, then Howard.

I worded that badly. I meant what was impressive is that he's being aggressive to the basket, playing some solid defense, but taking care of the ball at the same time for the amount of minutes he has been playing.

jayC · 11-24-2003, 03:41 PM

Fins greatness lies in that he no longer tries to do too much. I have noticed hes taken fewer and fewer fadeaway 18 and 20 footers. We could wish all we want for better handles its just not happening. Aside from all the stats he made the play of the day with the great lob pass from bradley to finley. Lets not forget the mans a model citizen. I believe he has some sort of thanksgiving day charity.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-24-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
He has looked much better. I still wish Nellie would trust Howard more. Fin is not the iron man he used to be, so I hate to see Nellie revert to using him as a security blanket.

What makes you think this? He played just as many minutes last season and wasn't bad in the playoffs except the Blazers series which he was coming back from the hamstring injury.

bogey · 11-24-2003, 04:48 PM

Finley is the glue that binds this team together.

kg_veteran · 11-24-2003, 05:20 PM

The guy has really been defending well. He's a great example of a player modifying their game as necessary to help the team win.

dirno2000 · 11-24-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
He has looked much better. I still wish Nellie would trust Howard more. Fin is not the iron man he used to be, so I hate to see Nellie revert to using him as a security blanket.

What makes you think this? He played just as many minutes last season and wasn't bad in the playoffs except the Blazers series which he was coming back from the hamstring injury.

What makes me thing that he's not the iron man he used to be? The fact that he has been hurt in each of the past two years and in training camp.

Mavs Rule · 11-24-2003, 08:16 PM

At the beginning of the season, Fin looked lost out on the court. I think there was also an adjustment period where he didn't know where he would fit in with the new players. Also, it always takes Fin awhile to recover from injuy, and the injuries are becoming more frequent. Once he got past the inner doubt of reinjuring himself, he looks like a new man out there. He has a confident air about him.

He is leading once again. The other night when he made a big deal out of the hard foul that he received on the breakaway, the team picked up on his enthusiasm and it was the main cause for the extended run the team then went on. He is also the one who covers everyone's back no matter how big the perpetrator is. And he seems like he is out there giving encouragement once again.

He is shooting much better, and playing smarter. He is not getting stuck in those fadeaway shots as the clock runs down, like someone mentioned above. He is not overshading toward the middle on defense which opened up a straight driveway toward the hole like he did earlier in the season.

The bottom line with Fin IMO is his movement. If he moves well, the rest of his game falls in place. That is why injuries always affect him more than others.

Captain Disaster · 11-24-2003, 08:36 PM

We need to swap him with Van Exel; this would solve our point guard problem, & pave the way for Howard/Delk. Think about it; Nowitzki, Nash, Walker, Jamison, Bradley/Fortson, & Van Exel off the bench.

bogey · 11-24-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
We need to swap him with Van Exel; this would solve our point guard problem, & pave the way for Howard/Delk. Think about it; Nowitzki, Nash, Walker, Jamison, Bradley/Fortson, & Van Exel off the bench.

Captain Disaster · 11-24-2003, 09:00 PM

I can handle the goofs; try THINKING about the Mavs' roster if they make this trade. I guess having a drill to your head presupposes rational thought.

bogey · 11-24-2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
I can handle the goofs; try THINKING about the Mavs' roster if they make this trade. I guess having a drill to your head presupposes rational thought.

No...thinking about the idiocy of that statement hurts my head worse than a power drill. Do you actually think before posting? Finley for NVE? I have been the largest NVE supporter on this site in the past, but this is plain retarded.

LRB · 11-25-2003, 12:22 AM

Bogey forget the drill and just drink the damned Jonestown Koolaide, it's quicker and less painful. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

bogey · 11-25-2003, 12:24 AM

mmmmmmmmmmm........Guyana Punch........

MavsFanFinley · 11-25-2003, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Finley on the rise: Michael Finley has erased memories of the slow start to the season, averaging 17.4 points over the last five games. He's shooting over 44 percent in that time and 37.5 percent from 3-point range. He's also had a team-best seven steals during the last five games to go with six blocks and six turnovers.

This is taken from the DMN Mavs-Bulls preview.

I hate the turnovers in that span, but he's only averaging 1.3 for the season.

I'm impressed with the 7 steals and 6 blocks.

His fg% still isn't where we need it to be, but he's moving in the right direction.

grndmstr_c · 11-25-2003, 12:41 AM

I think they mean six turnovers total in the last five games. That's very good.

MavsFanFinley · 11-25-2003, 12:49 AM

Quote:

I think they mean six turnovers total in the last five games. That's very good.

Yeah, I know. I didn't like it cause he seems to be taking care of the ball better than that. He's 4th for fewest turnovers among the big 5 so it's hard to find fault for Fin in that regard.

He's more than made up for it in other areas.

Captain Disaster · 11-25-2003, 02:31 AM

Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
I can handle the goofs; try THINKING about the Mavs' roster if they make this trade. I guess having a drill to your head presupposes rational thought.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No...thinking about the idiocy of that statement hurts my head worse than a power drill. Do you actually think before posting? Finley for NVE? I have been the largest NVE supporter on this site in the past, but this is plain retarded.

I like your comebacks; yes I do think before posting. I want the Mavs to win the championship; I want them to win with Finley. Having said that, I sure hope that Fin can justify his existence on this new team. His salary, age, common position, and "iffy" play may require a move before long. On the other hand, there is no real reason that Finley can't go to the hole often, now that he should encounter frequent mismatches. His free throw shooting is the most positive way he can impact the team; he needs to get to the line a dozen times a game.

grndmstr_c · 11-25-2003, 04:06 AM

Finley will rarely be the principal beneficiary of mismatches on this team. He will draw regular two guard defenders more often than not. The mismatches for this team are now going to be found most often in the front court. This means Finley will not have an advantage driving to the bucket over what he has had in previous seasons.

Shaq Attack2 · 11-25-2003, 07:13 AM

I'm glad this thread was started, as I was noticing exactly the same defensive improvement in Finley. Whether it will last the whole season is another story, but I am very glad that Finley has wised up and kicked it up a notch defensively so far this season. His athleticism and the fact that he has several very good years left is the primary reason he desperately needed to get into gear defensively this season. And it's not just on the ball either, his rotation defense is very very good as well. Actually, I've noticed that his transition defense has been mediocre, but otherwise he's been solid.

TheKid · 11-25-2003, 02:24 PM

3)Honestly...what the hell is he doing bringing the ball up the floor into the half court set? Everyone knows he does'nt have handles and that he's not going anywhere...Nellie is'nt fooling anyone with that ploy. The more he brings it up into the half court offense the more we seem to struggle getting a shot off in time. If Nash or Walker are on the floor (or any other ballhandlers) Fin has no business handling in the half court. He's right there with Najera and Jamison in handles IMO. (this is'nt entirely his fault, Nellie thinks he's fooling the defense, but he's not)

I think that is exactly why Fin brings the ball up court because in the half court set, to reduce the amount of times he's driving to the basket with the ball exposed for him to get it stolen. To have him bring the ball up, he's fine with doing that because there is very little pressure being put on him to handle the ball. The idea is to have him bring the ball up get rid of it and move without the ball which is what he does best.

dirno2000 · 11-26-2003, 01:04 AM

Fin was a pleasure to watch tonight. The 28 points were nice, but I was more impressed by the 6 assist. It looked like the game was moving slower in his eyes as he watched everything develop. I hope he keeps it up.

Evilmav2 · 11-26-2003, 01:32 AM

Man, I was at the game, and afterwords all I wanted to do was get home and watch the third quarter on tivo again. The Findawg was sharp as hell tonight, and I know it has been a long time since I have seen him look as aggressive and dominating as he did in that wonderful, crushing third quarter.

Great job tonight, Mike!