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Old 07-29-2007, 12:16 PM   #1
dude1394
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Default And some folks think "conservatives" are anti free speech

It's been my opinion that the most egregious attacks on free-speech have come from liberals who want to regulate hate-speech, especially on campus's. This one takes the cake.

Any bet on whether the ACLU takes this one up? I expect it will be FIRE and not the lefties.
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/mai...s-he-shou.html
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I Guess He Should Have Just Burned A Flag

This will make for a fascinating prosecution:

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Hate-crime arrests in Quran desecrations at Pace University
July 27, 2007, 8:33 PM EDT

NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.
Well, if had burned an American flag the issues would be clear. If he had put a crucifix in a glass of urine, it would have been art.

On the other hand, a book in a toilet, regardless of the book, can damage the toilet and cause property damage, so there may be a fairly simple cause of action on that basis.

Or if the Quran was not his own, well, then, Mr. Shmulevich is on his own.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:44 PM   #2
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Well, I can't speak for them all, but this lefty thinks that neither putting the Quran in the toilet, nor burning an American flag, nor putting a crucifix in a glass of urine is a proper basis for arresting anybody. I don't know why the ACLU wouldn't be interested in taking such a case though. They've had no problem taking cases with a broad range of clients spanning from right wing Nazis to left wing communists.

Hate crimes is an interesting first amendment issue though.
Almost all liberals and conservatives would agree that there are proper limits to protection of freedom of speech. And the Supreme Court has clearly stated that not all speech is protected.
With regard to the Quran in the university toilet, courts have demonstated some willingness to uphold restrictions on "lewd, profane, or indecent" speech where the speech bombards a "captive audience." Perhaps users of a semi-public toilet could be classified as a captive audience. The problem is that courts have never said what consitutes lewd, profane, or indecent speech. So there is no easily applicable test. Lower level judges will continue to draw the boundaries as they see fit unless they are given a more precise test to follow.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:44 PM   #3
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Or anti-butt slapping. I expect that in Oregon, this isn't a conservative issue.
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/bu...nts-cornelison

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Do you know Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison?

If you do, don't approach them. Call 911 and order up a SWAT team. They're believed to be in the vicinity of McMinnville, Ore., where they're a clear and present danger to the community. Mashburn and Cornelison were recently charged with five counts of felony sexual abuse, and District Attorney Bradley Berry has pledged to have them registered for life as sex offenders.

Oh, by the way, the defendants are in the seventh grade.

Messrs Mashburn and Cornelison are pupils at Patton Middle School. They were arrested in February after being observed in the vestibule, swatting girls on the butt. Butt-swatting had apparently become a form of greeting at the school – like "a handshake we do," as one female student put it. On "Slap Butt Fridays," boys and girls would hail each other with a cheery application of manual friction to the posterior, akin to a Masonic greeting.

Don't ask me why. The rear end seems to me to be far more prominent in society than it was back when I was a lad. There is a best-selling children's book, "The Day My Butt Went Psycho," by Andy Griffiths. No, not that Andy Griffiths. There were no psycho butts in Mayberry. This Andy Griffiths is an Australian. The U.S. edition was painstakingly translated from the original Aussie (The Day My Bum Went Psycho). And speaking of psycho butts, former senator and Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards said the other day: "The biggest problem is my butt hurts. Is that normal?"

Gee, I dunno. Standing next to Hillary at the YouTube debate will do that to you. Oh, wait, my mistake. He was taking part in a charity bicycle ride with Lance Armstrong. The Day My Butt Went Cycling.

Anyway, whether from presidential candidates or bestselling authors or the protagonists of the movie "Jackass," one hears a lot more about bottoms than one used to. Perhaps this is a poignantly freighted and highly literal image of Western Civilization contemplating its own end. Or perhaps I'm over-analyzing things, and the middle-schoolers just decided one day it was totally cool, as is their wont. Kids do the darnedest things, as we said back in Mayberry.

But that was then, and this is now. So, upon being caught butt-swatting, Mashburn and Cornelison were called to the principal's office, where they were questioned for several hours by vice principal Steve Tillery and McMinnville Police officer Marshall Roache. At the end of the afternoon, two boys who'd never been in any kind of trouble before were read their Miranda rights and led off in handcuffs to spend five days in juvenile jail.

Tough, but I guess they learned their lesson, right?

Ha! The state of Oregon was only warming up. After a court appearance in shackles and prison garb, the defendants were charged with multiple counts of felony sexual abuse, banned from school and forbidden any contact with their friends.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:53 PM   #4
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Butt-slapping on the other hand is way out of line.
Lock those kids up and throw away the damn key.
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:17 PM   #5
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Update on the butt-slapping case, dude.
Charges dismissed.

Sexual harassment charges dismissed
The charges triggered a debate over whether such behavior in school should be considered criminal.

Two 13-year-old boys accused of slapping girls' bottoms and poking or cupping girls' breasts at school apologized on Monday as a judge dismissed charges against the two, ending a six-month case that drew national attention.

The charges triggered a debate over whether such behavior in school should be considered criminal.

Four girls listed as victims by the prosecutors had asked the judge to drop the charges against Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison.

Yamhill County Judge John Collins did so on Monday, saying it was in the "interest of justice."

A number of young girls were in the courtroom during the hearing. They included at least some of the four who asked that the charges be dropped, attorneys said.

During the brief hearing, the two boys faced the girls and apologized.

"I never intended to hurt you in any way," Mashburn said.

Cornelison told the girls: "I hope we can still be friends."

The News-Register newspaper of McMinnville reported that a "civil compromise" reached by prosecutors and the defense called for both boys to apologize, to pay each of the four girls $250 and to complete a "boundaries education" program.

Prosecutors and defense attorneys said they could not comment on the newspaper report or release details of the settlement because they are confidential.

Pressure has been building on prosecutors to drop the charges, with critics saying they had blown the matter out of proportion and were overzealous.

The boys, apparently inspired by the movie "Jackass," were accused in police reports of swatting girls on the bottom in a school corridor, grabbing girls' breasts on at least two occasions, teaming up to "dry hump" girls, poking girls' breasts and engaging in what's known as "party boy" dancing mimicking sexual intercourse.

They were originally charged with felony sex abuse, misdemeanor sex abuse and sexual harassment in February. Amid growing public opposition to sending the boys to prison and putting them on a sex offenders' registry, prosecutors first dropped the felony sex abuse charges and later the misdemeanor sex abuse charges, leaving the sexual harassment counts.

The judge dismissed the final charges following negotiations between prosecutors and the defense, and discussions with the four girls about whether they wanted the case dismissed.

http://www.kxl.com/ArDisplay.aspx?SecID=22&ID=55252
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:27 PM   #6
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I think I owe my wife $250 and an apology....
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:42 PM   #7
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20,000 dollars later after lawyer fees, courtroom costs, judges, people off work etc. We have an apology and it's over.

sheesh.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Flacolaco
I think I owe my wife $250 and an apology....
btw, your wife owes me $250 and an apology.
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