Mavs Free Agency 11/12 - Page 12 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 09:39 PM

SI's Lowe: Amnesty cannot be used on traded-for players

From SI.com's Zach Lowe, who has been bringing the detail regarding some of the new wrinkles of the as-yet-not-final agreement, comes this interesting tidbit on the amnesty provision.

@ZachLowe_SI Clarification from league: Teams CANNOT use amnesty on a player they acquire via trade, even if player's contract dates to prior CBA

How does this affect the Hawks? Well, if a team were to make a big deal with the Hawks and had someone like Marvin Williams in the deal with the thought that they could amnestize him then that possible angle is now no-go.

Ditto Joe Johnson, not that a team would necessarily consider that but let's say that the a team like the Bulls wanted to bring Joe in with the thought that they would use Joe to make a big run for the next couple of seasons and then they would amnestize Johnson and the remainder of his deal, then according to this wrinkle, that cannot be done.

A more national example could be if the Magic traded Hedo Turkoglu as a part of a Dwight Howard package, the receiving team could not amnestize Turkoglu when they received him.

Rick41 · 12-01-2011, 09:41 PM

http://twitter.com/#!/wfaasports/sta...30374369300482

Rings won't be handed out on Xmas after all...

xrobx · 12-01-2011, 09:46 PM

one disappointment after another

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrobx

one disappointment after another

Come on now we're the champions. No matter what happens no one can take that away from us.

LSMF · 12-01-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

http://twitter.com/#!/wfaasports/sta...30374369300482

Rings won't be handed out on Xmas after all...

That's the perfect day for us to get our rings...

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2011, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Come on now we're the champions. No matter what happens no one can take that away from us.

Exactly. That's why I'm not getting my feathers ruffled over anything that does or does not happen this year. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm TOTALLY okay with just punting this entire season for the chance, small as it may be, of getting Dwight Howard. Williams would be a great consolation prize. That's why part of me was honestly hoping that the entire season would be cancelled. If we don't land either of those guys, at least we're in a decent position to tear it all down and start rebuilding, rather than being saddled with another bad contract.

The fact is, we're taking a HUGE gamble no matter what we do. If we re-sign Chandler, then we officially give up any chance we had at landing one of the big free agents and we're betting everything that simply holding onto what we already have is enough to get us another title. Personally, I don't think it is enough and I find it a bit odd that so many Mavs fans seem to just assume that this roster left unchanged would just steamroll right to another championship. Has everyone already forgotten how old this team is? Or that we were HUGE underdogs against both the Heat and the Lakers? The way I see it, what happened this summer was nothing short of a miracle. The stars aligned and the basketball gods smiled upon us. Does everyone here really believe that Kidd, Terry, and Marion have another playoff performance like this last one left? I don't.

Even if we do re-sign Chandler, we're going to have to tear down the whole thing and start rebuilding very, very soon. Like, within the next three years. If there is even a .05% chance you can land a Dwight Howard, I say you take it.

In the end, no matter what happens this year or next year, the Mavs have an NBA championship, and that's a pretty f**king awesome thing.

Underdog · 12-01-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Exactly. That's why I'm not getting my feathers ruffled over anything that does or does not happen this year. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm TOTALLY okay with just punting this entire season for the chance, small as it may be, of getting Dwight Howard. Williams would be a great consolation prize. If we don't land either of those guys, at least we're in a decent position to tear it all down and start rebuilding, rather than being saddled with another bad contract.

The fact is, we're taking a HUGE gamble no matter what we do. If we re-sign Chandler, then we officially give up any chance we had at landing one of the big free agents and we're betting everything that simply holding onto what we already have is enough to get us another title. Personally, I don't think it is enough and I find it a bit odd that so many Mavs fans seem to just assume that this roster left unchanged would just steamroll right to another championship. Has everyone already forgotten how old this team is? Or that we were HUGE underdogs against both the Heat and the Lakers? The way I see it, what happened this summer was nothing short of a miracle. The stars aligned and the basketball gods smiled upon us. Does everyone here really believe that Kidd, Terry, and Marion have another playoff performance like this last one left? I don't.

Even if we do re-sign Chandler, we're going to have to tear down the whole thing and start rebuilding very, very soon. Like, within the next three years. If there is even a .05% chance you can land a Dwight Howard, I say you take it.

In the end, no matter what happens this year or next year, the Mavs have an NBA championship, and that's a pretty f**king awesome thing.

Agree 100%.

CapitanObvious · 12-01-2011, 11:07 PM

Random post here. Trying to troll Heat fans at facebook. Check bottom comments.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

MavsFTR · 12-01-2011, 11:24 PM

As per Marc Stein, "A growing number of execs starting to believe that Magic will indeed give strong consideration to doing Dwight deal before season starts." Do we have any hope to make a deal happen?

BGMaverick9 · 12-01-2011, 11:39 PM

http://t.co/3nPpNcvu
Some different news

grndmstr_c · 12-01-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

As per Marc Stein, "A growing number of execs starting to believe that Magic will indeed give strong consideration to doing Dwight deal before season starts." Do we have any hope to make a deal happen?

I'm inclined to think that LA could probably beat any other trade offer if they decided to go all in.

rmacomic · 12-01-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

You know, this is a great point.

Thank you.

I just can't believe that these guys are going to go right out and do it all again. I mean it's like some one paid off all their debts and the first thing they want to do is max out all the credit cards.

dude1394 · 12-02-2011, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

So.... everyone is a pipe dream?

I think gasol, howard, dwill are pipe dreams.

dude1394 · 12-02-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

http://twitter.com/#!/wfaasports/sta...30374369300482

Rings won't be handed out on Xmas after all...

Another casualty of the lockout. But I just want to see divas puss when that banner goes up, priceless.

dude1394 · 12-02-2011, 12:19 AM

I hope that when it's torn down its torn to the ground. But again I don't see Howard leaving for any place but a coast.

Mavsfan2thedeath · 12-02-2011, 12:47 AM

what about someone like Brook Lopez? He's already at odds with Avery, and they do have interest in Tyson. Would either party be willing to at least swing a sign-and-trade (along with some other pieces) to get Lopez in a Mavs uniform?

LonghornDub · 12-02-2011, 12:50 AM

I will never support simply phoning in a season. That said, we have to smartly position ourselves to at least be players in the 2012 FA class, even if we can't guarantee we'll land any of those guys. If we were SA or Charlotte or some other nonsense market, I'd think differently, but Dallas is a hot enough destination that we have a legitimate chance at those guys. Not "the best" chance, but one substantial enough to try. To completely forego that chance with this year's roster moves would be foolish.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-02-2011, 01:01 AM

Matt Steinmetz: Ws fans, Yes or No. You amnesty Biedrins ($27 mill/3 years) and sign Chandler for four years, $75-$80 million? Which is what it might take. 4 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1fM260PiG

chumdawg · 12-02-2011, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Thank you.

I just can't believe that these guys are going to go right out and do it all again. I mean it's like some one paid off all their debts and the first thing they want to do is max out all the credit cards.

It's a fair point you make, but at the same time, the owners are not a monolithic group. Some will save, some will spend. The cheap owners weren't trying to keep themselves from spending, they were trying to keep the other guys from spending.

sefant77 · 12-02-2011, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

As per Marc Stein, "A growing number of execs starting to believe that Magic will indeed give strong consideration to doing Dwight deal before season starts." Do we have any hope to make a deal happen?

Im pretty sure the Magic will trade him and try to package him with Hedo. Hedo gone and amnesty on Arenas is the best rebuild they can get.

I think we practically need Chandler to sign so we can trade him to the Magic since he would be our best trade asset beside Roddy. Not for the Magic to keep him in the rebuild, for them to trade him again.

fluid.forty.one · 12-02-2011, 05:35 AM

saw this on Fish's site. Apparently Terry has been trying to talk TC into staying

"I've spoken to him every day for the last two weeks and he wants to be here, he wants to be a Maverick next year," Said Terry, adding that their conversations were the purpose of "recruiting." "Now, it's on ownership to make it happen."

j0Shi · 12-02-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Matt Steinmetz: Ws fans, Yes or No. You amnesty Biedrins ($27 mill/3 years) and sign Chandler for four years, $75-$80 million? Which is what it might take. 4 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1fM260PiG

Jeez...

Maybe it's really time to think another direction. That 'win-now'-stance might be softened in the FO with the Championship last year, so why not roll with Haywood and Mahinmi, bring over Koponen or Calathes, see what you can get out of Roddy, Brewer, Rudy and the other youngsters and sign a quality player with the full MLE (Barea or even a backup PF).

joemoeschmoe · 12-02-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Matt Steinmetz: Ws fans, Yes or No. You amnesty Biedrins ($27 mill/3 years) and sign Chandler for four years, $75-$80 million? Which is what it might take. 4 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1fM260PiG

I just don't see that being possible. Chandler is really good, but 18-20 mil/year just doesn't make sense for anyone.

If Chandler can truly get someone to pay him that much, I won't blame him too much for leaving. Hopefully he understand that the more he takes the worse his team will be in the long run.

I hope he understands that $10 mil/yr now costs the owner and the team much more than $10 mil/yr last year would have. To ask for anything near max would just be unreasonable.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-02-2011, 10:42 AM

18-20 mil? Let's not get carried away with this. The absolute max I see Chandler getting in an irrational world is 15, and I doubt he even gets that. I see a starting salary at 13 from an opposing team's offer.

j0Shi · 12-02-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

18-20 mil? Let's not get carried away with this. The absolute max I see Chandler getting in an irrational world is 15, and I doubt he even gets that. I see a starting salary at 13 from an opposing team's offer.

Supply and demand? There are really only two top tier center in this years FA and about 6-8 teams hunting them (even count out the Mavs here). Chances for such a salary are absolutely there...

Underdog · 12-02-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Matt Steinmetz: Ws fans, Yes or No. You amnesty Biedrins ($27 mill/3 years) and sign Chandler for four years, $75-$80 million? Which is what it might take. 4 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1fM260PiG

LOL, $20mil/year would make Chandler the 5th-highest paid player in the league, $18.75mil/year would make him the 7th-highest (and we're talking about pre-CBA salaries here).

Go for it, Golden State - one less team to compete with for the next 4 years...

Rick41 · 12-02-2011, 11:17 AM

Hahaha, what is Mark Steinmetz smoking?

$20M a year for Chandler is retarded.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-02-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Supply and demand? There are really only two top tier center in this years FA and about 6-8 teams hunting them (even count out the Mavs here). Chances for such a salary are absolutely there...

Just because you are the best player at your position in free agency doesn't necessarily make you worth max dollars. Chandler will undoubtedly get 10 or more, I get that. 18-20? No way.

sefant77 · 12-02-2011, 11:27 AM

GS isnt that stupid. Amnesty Biedrins (they still have to pay him most of the money) AND overpaying Chandler.

Rick41 · 12-02-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Supply and demand? There are really only two top tier center in this years FA and about 6-8 teams hunting them (even count out the Mavs here). Chances for such a salary are absolutely there...

Do you honestly believe Tyson is going to land a $20M a year contract from anyone?

SMC0007 · 12-02-2011, 11:41 AM

I heard the Texas Legends are trying to steal Chandler.

j0Shi · 12-02-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Do you honestly believe Tyson is going to land a $20M a year contract from anyone?

Hell no, majorly because Nene can't get over ~17.4M (30% if the cap). Anybody who pays Chandler over 17.4 (which is possible cause he can get a max up to 35% of the cap) and could get Nene with that is just stupidly stupid.

Popeye · 12-02-2011, 12:08 PM

If the Mavs don't sign Chandler, they'll be under the luxury tax correct? I think they have $64m in committed salary for the year and the luxury tax is projected to be over $70m. So they'd be able to use the full MLE of 4 year / $20m?

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-02-2011, 12:15 PM

The good news is that both Haywood and Mahinmi played well in the playoffs. That has to count for something. Neither player had issue with the pressure of the moment. All three centers bring essentially the same thing. All defense and no offense. Mahinmi probably has the most offensive skill of the three. Can he make that next big step?

Tough decision indeed.

grndmstr_c · 12-02-2011, 12:17 PM

Hmm, so, Tyson and his agent appear to be doing a good job shaping perception about what he's worth.

As a response to Popeye:

Quote:

If the Mavs don't sign Chandler, they'll be under the luxury tax correct? I think they have $64m in committed salary for the year and the luxury tax is projected to be over $70m. So they'd be able to use the full MLE of 4 year / $20m?

That's my understanding, but also, if I recall correctly, teams that use the full MLE are subjected to a hard cap of 74 million for the season, meaning Dallas would be severely handicapping themselves when it comes to trades.

Kidd Karma · 12-02-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

http://twitter.com/#!/wfaasports/sta...30374369300482

Rings won't be handed out on Xmas after all...

But the banner goes up. Ring on another day. Extend the celebration, make it a full year celebration!!

Kidd Karma · 12-02-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

As per Marc Stein, "A growing number of execs starting to believe that Magic will indeed give strong consideration to doing Dwight deal before season starts." Do we have any hope to make a deal happen?

Sounds like they might go Utah's route and maxmize what they can get for Howard. Looks like the Lakers have the most to offer back. NJ, Brook and picks, Lakers, Bynum, Gasol and take back Hedo.

Kidd Karma · 12-02-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

SI's Lowe: Amnesty cannot be used on traded-for players

From SI.com's Zach Lowe, who has been bringing the detail regarding some of the new wrinkles of the as-yet-not-final agreement, comes this interesting tidbit on the amnesty provision.

@ZachLowe_SI Clarification from league: Teams CANNOT use amnesty on a player they acquire via trade, even if player's contract dates to prior CBA

How does this affect the Hawks? Well, if a team were to make a big deal with the Hawks and had someone like Marvin Williams in the deal with the thought that they could amnestize him then that possible angle is now no-go.

Ditto Joe Johnson, not that a team would necessarily consider that but let's say that the a team like the Bulls wanted to bring Joe in with the thought that they would use Joe to make a big run for the next couple of seasons and then they would amnestize Johnson and the remainder of his deal, then according to this wrinkle, that cannot be done.

A more national example could be if the Magic traded Hedo Turkoglu as a part of a Dwight Howard package, the receiving team could not amnestize Turkoglu when they received him.

My followup question to the CBA would be, so can Orlando amnestize Arenas, since they were traded prior to the new CBA, but Arenas signed the contract with the Wizards.

Melonhead · 12-02-2011, 12:50 PM

Im all for going after Chandler, but anything 14 and over, I pass.

18-20 mil is insane, and I want chandler back more than any of the free agents.

Kidd Karma · 12-02-2011, 12:53 PM

Cardinal for 1 year, Stevenson wants a multi year deal.

Quote:

The representative for Brian Cardinal and DeShawn Stevenson hasn't seen any slippage in interest for this year's free-agent class just because some teams want to save salary-cap space for next year's bumper crop of stars who may be on the open market.

In addition, agent Mark Bartelstein said the Mavericks have begun talks about retaining both Cardinal and Stevenson.

"I think there are a lot of good players out there this year, and it seems like an aggressive market," said Bartelstein, who has a large stable of NBA players. "You can wait for next year, and some teams will. But no question this is still a win-now league."

Bartelstein already has had conversations with the Mavericks about Cardinal and Stevenson. Cardinal, 34, has made it clear he'd like to return to the Mavericks, and a one-year contract might get that done. Stevenson, 30, may be more interested in a multiyear deal, which could be problematic.

"We've certainly talked, and we're working on it," Bartelstein said. "Right now, it's tough to say where it's headed. Both guys are very interested in being back."