Why is Devean George starting? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 01:25 AM

Please someone explain it to me. I don't get it.

What the heck is going on with Carlisle? Why is he giving this guy so many minutes while shutting down and killing the confidence of the young players who were going out there and playing their butts off for him a few weeks ago?

I don't get it. What is going on??

ghazi · 12-20-2008, 01:40 AM

i dunno

Zki41 · 12-20-2008, 01:42 AM

Defense

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

Defense

Ah, you mean like the defense he played on Vince Carter tonight?

Look, let's assume for a second that Devean George is actually a fairly good defender. He isn't, but let's say that's the case for the sake of argument he is at least a good defender.

So... do you really think this team is going anywhere worthwhile with that player as a starter? As a guy getting significant minutes?

Because I don't see it happening. Meanwhile you've got a bench FULL of young guys with tons and tons of POSSIBLE potential who, if you give them that playing time... sure they'll make a lot of mistakes MAY develop into something. Granted, it's a longshot but with George getting those minutes it is a no shot.

Keep in mind here we're assuming George is actually a good defender... which he is not. He is a barely mediocre defender with zero offensive ability of any kind.

I can't for the life of me come up with any good excuse to be playing the guy the way Carlisle is playing him. I would love to know what the heck he's thinking. A few weeks ago he seemed to get it, seemed to really be coaching up those young guys... using an exciting offense... now he's Avery Johnson.

Dtownsfinest · 12-20-2008, 01:47 AM

Yea i'd imagine for his defense though I don't think its good enough to make up for his horrible offense but it is probably the best this team has to offer sadly.

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Yea i'd imagine for his defense though I don't think its good enough to make up for his horrible offense but it is probably the best this team has to offer sadly.

Wright and Williams are at least as good as defenders as Devean George... and Wright has a potential offensive upside and he occasionally does more than stand around and wait for someone to throw him the ball so he can miss a 3.

Kidd and Howard are DEFINITELY better defenders than Devean George.

Heck, Barea might be a better defender than George. I think he's at least smarter... and he's definitely quicker and works harder. Just hampered by his size.

Devean George is FAR from the best defensive option this team has to offer. He's just the one which requires the least effort from the coach... or something. He's the give up option, the guy you throw out there as coach when you really just don't give a crap anymore.

Zki41 · 12-20-2008, 01:54 AM

I don't think Devean George should even be on our active roster ... but I know defense is Rick Carlisle's reason for playing him.

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zki41

Rick Carlisle's reason for playing him.

And what could possibly have given Carlisle any reason to think that his defense is so awesome he must start?

Or are we just assuming Carlisle doesn't actually watch any games and just bases his starting line up on old post it notes Avery Johnson left lying around his office?

Dtownsfinest · 12-20-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Wright and Williams are at least as good as defenders as Devean George... and Wright has a potential offensive upside and he occasionally does more than stand around and wait for someone to throw him the ball so he can miss a 3.

Kidd and Howard are DEFINITELY better defenders than Devean George.

Heck, Barea might be a better defender than George. I think he's at least smarter... and he's definitely quicker and works harder. Just hampered by his size.

Devean George is FAR from the best defensive option this team has to offer. He's just the one which requires the least effort from the coach... or something. He's the give up option, the guy you throw out there as coach when you really just don't give a crap anymore.

Well what George offers that Wright, Barea, Kidd or Josh don't is size. I don't like George's game but I understand why he gets pt. I've seen him defend well at times this season. Inconsistently but when he's defending its the best the team has to offer including his size. That's not a compliment to George its more of a sad reality of this team. They're not good defenders. Kidd i'll say has great hands. He plays the passing lanes great. He has great IQ but as a defender I have no faith in him if he doesn't get that rip or that steal in the passing lanes.

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Well what George offers that Wright, Barea, Kidd or Josh don't is size. I don't like George's game but I understand why he gets pt. I've seen him defend well at times this season. Inconsistently but when he's defending its the best the team has to offer including his size. That's not a compliment to George its more of a sad reality of this team. They're not good defenders. Kidd i'll say has great hands. He plays the passing lanes great. He has great IQ but as a defender I have no faith in him if he doesn't get that rip or that steal in the passing lanes.

Um... George is 6'8" (barely)

Antoine Wright: 6'7"
Shawne Williams: 6'9"
James Singleton: 6'8"

Or by size do you mean fat?

Because he's not really fat, he just looks it and acts it.

Or if you just mean flat out bulk, Singleton is just as bulky as he is. Williams maybe not but he's bigger overall... and I'd bet anything Wright is stronger.

There's three guys though, two of whom are at LEAST as good at defending as George who are all roughly the same size or bigger.

And what is all this about playing the passing lanes? I can't remember the last time I saw George intercept a pass.

LonghornDub · 12-20-2008, 03:08 AM

George is probably the best man-up defender on the team. Maybe Howard when he's actually trying. He's considerably better than Wright or Green at defense.

ghazi · 12-20-2008, 03:28 AM

Another question to ask is why is Josh Howard still a Mav?

He's 28, this is his prime. Should be his best year of basketball

Over the last 2 years he's declined in: blocks, steals, charges drawn, rebound rate, shooting, and defense, and PER.

2005-2006 and 2006-2007 were his best years "PER wise"

On top of all our roster flaws, our 2.5 option has no dedication, no commitment, no hunger, no desire.

It's unfair of me, I suppose, to make these assumptions since I don't know Josh and don't know what goes through his mind... but that's just the vibe I get. Terry, Dirk, and Kidd seem to care, but Josh doesn't.

And it's a very legitimate opinion... he's not at a point in his career where we can attribute those declines due to lost speed, quickness, or athleticism... he's at a point in his career where we can attribute those declines due to lack of effort.

Ghazi is on the trade J-Ho bandwagon! Even if it's a lateral move, I'd rather watch a guy who gives a damn than a guy who doesn't.

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

George is probably the best man-up defender on the team. Maybe Howard when he's actually trying. He's considerably better than Wright or Green at defense.

Evidence?

Tonight he was defending Vince Carter. Carter scored what... 32?

And with all due respect to Carter, who is a very very good player... he's hardly LeBron.

I think you've been reading Avery's old post-it notes too.

If that's the best man-up defender on the team, then I think a logical move would be to accept that you don't have a good man-up defender and go with someone who has some actual skill in some other area.... or better yet is young, developing, and might develop those skills if you ever let him get off the bench *cough*Wright*cough*

cinemablend · 12-20-2008, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Another question to ask is why is Josh Howard still a Mav?

He's 28, this is his prime. Should be his best year of basketball

Over the last 2 years he's declined in: blocks, steals, charges drawn, rebound rate, shooting, and defense, and PER.

2005-2006 and 2006-2007 were his best years "PER wise"

On top of all our roster flaws, our 2.5 option has no dedication, no commitment, no hunger, no desire.

It's unfair of me, I suppose, to make these assumptions since I don't know Josh and don't know what goes through his mind... but that's just the vibe I get. Terry, Dirk, and Kidd seem to care, but Josh doesn't.

And it's a very legitimate opinion... he's not at a point in his career where we can attribute those declines due to lost speed, quickness, or athleticism... he's at a point in his career where we can attribute those declines due to lack of effort.

Ghazi is on the trade J-Ho bandwagon! Even if it's a lateral move, I'd rather watch a guy who gives a damn than a guy who doesn't.

And... every team is interested in him. So it's not like he'd be hard to trade and get something decent in return.

jthig32 · 12-20-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

George is probably the best man-up defender on the team. Maybe Howard when he's actually trying. He's considerably better than Wright or Green at defense.

Considerably better than Wright? No way. George guards bigger swingmen better, but when the Mavs played the Lakers Wright guarded Kobe much, much better than George did.

Wright is right there with George on defensive ability.

Mavs Rule · 12-20-2008, 11:47 AM

Now this is the kind of thread that has some substance in it. Nice posting by all.

I am definitely on the side of benching George. Last night's game, in the first couple minutes, one possession George makes a gamble on D, and lets his guy drive right to the hoop in a spread offense, so there is little chance of helpside D, bad descision. Next possession, on offense, he sits in the corner and takes a bad 3 point attempt.

Damn, does this guy do anything? He never moves without the ball, or sets up a score by passing. He sits on the perimeter and holds the ball until he passes it back around the perimeter again. On defense, he tries to get up close in the opponent's face, but does not have the speed to keep up with him, or stay in front of him, once the opponent drives. He is making more mental mistakes transporting him into Stack's level of futility.

Wright has the potential to be a good player. Give him the minutes. Go with the mistakes a younger player will make, knowing that there is upside to doing it. As he grows, those mistakes will lessen, and he will be someone who can be counted on to be dependable, athletic and energetic late in the season. George has no upside, and as far as I can see is just collecting a paycheck.

BGMaverick9 · 12-20-2008, 07:12 PM

To me, George is defensive/3 PT specialist but he isn't overly great or consistent at either of those facets. He can play pretty nice defense but George isn't getting any younger and his ability on that will start to deteriorate. I've mentioned also that he can't be counted on with his 3 point shooting.

Wright, on offense, can drive and is athletic enough to change his approach as he is driving or in mid-air...definitely a lot easier than George can. It's been well documented his shooting is a major hindrance, but he at least has another outlet to score if the jumper isn't working...I don't think George does. As for defense, other than veteran savvy...I don't think Wright is that far behind on defense vs George.

dude1394 · 12-20-2008, 08:53 PM

If george could get his 3pt percentage up he would be very,very nice player imo. If he could get it up to 40% level...I'd really be happy.

Alas...even though he's always wide open, he only shoots 34%...but that still beats the heck out of his competition.

Devean George - .343%
Shawne Williams - .063%
Antoine Wright - -.200%
Gerald Green - .227%
Josh Howard - .323%

This team can't shoot unfortunately. That's why I'm torqued we didn't pick up Jrich. He would have been great on this team offensively. Jrich at .452%!! This team would be VERY dangerous.

mac222b · 12-20-2008, 11:09 PM

To add insult to injury our "decision makers" gave him a player option after this season at 1.6 per.
He could return next season just to spite us all. And it wouldn't be the first time.

cinemablend · 12-21-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If george could get his 3pt percentage up he would be very,very nice player imo. If he could get it up to 40% level...I'd really be happy.

Alas...even though he's always wide open, he only shoots 34%...but that still beats the heck out of his competition.

Devean George - .343%
Shawne Williams - .063%
Antoine Wright - -.200%
Gerald Green - .227%
Josh Howard - .323%

This team can't shoot unfortunately. That's why I'm torqued we didn't pick up Jrich. He would have been great on this team offensively. Jrich at .452%!! This team would be VERY dangerous.

Do do you think Carlisle keeps throwing him out there because he's a slightly better 3 point shooter than those guys? That's baffling. We have Dirk and JET.. and heck even Kidd out there who can nail wide open threes. Why the heck would he feel he needs George out there for that? Why does every position have to be able to shoo the three?

Let Dirk, Jet, and Kidd handle the three ball, put Wright, Williams, Singleton, or Green out there instead of George.

Even after all this discussion, I just can't think of a single, decent reason why Carlisle keeps playing this guy. What the heck is he thinking? What the heck is Cuban thinking? If I owned this team and my coach was starting Devean George I'd have some serious words for him.