Houston @ Dallas Gameday Thread

[Bookit]

Originally posted by: endtroducing
I can't stand all this negativity, especially in regards to Stackhouse...we just beat Houston and Dirk scored 53 freaking points. Without Stackhouse, we don't win that game.

I respectfully disagree. Replace Stackhouse with Finley and we definitely win. Stackhouse makes bonehead decisions when they really matter. When he is shooting well it is easy to overlook those bonehead decisions. But when he is shooting poorly(last 10 games) his bonehead decisions just compound the misery. The only good part about his game is that he drives to the hoop.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Anyone think these heavy minutes Dirk is getting are gonna take a toll on Dirk's ankles towards the end of the season?

[MavsFanFinley]

Doesn't it strike anyone as a little worrisome that we're so reliant on one player game in and game out? Last year with Nash and Finley also in the lineup we had 3 guys who could consistently put up 20+ ppg and would readily and ably take on the role of go-to-guy. This year, it just seems like everyone just sits around waiting for Nowitzki to do something. If something happened to Dirk, just how good would we be against teams like SA, SEA, PHO, etc. while they were at full strength?

I'm glad you said it first.

I was wondering if anyone else was concerned that it took this type of game from Dirk to beat the Rockets by 7 points.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: LRB

OK, $20 if you can post a link to the box score on the official NBA site for a regular season game in the 2004-2005 season where Dirk scored 43 points before 12/2/04. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

April 19th, 2003. The first game against Portland Dirk had 46.

nba.com

Mavericks 96, Blazers 86 - American Airlines Center, April 19, 2003 (Playoff Game No. 1, 0-1) Portland held a 10-point lead at the half, but it wasn’t enough to hold off Dallas All-Star forward Dirk Nowitzki, who had a franchise playoff-high 46 points as the Mavericks won Game 1 96-86... Nowitzki made 16 of 27 shots (4-5 from three-point line) and hit 10 of 11 free throws...

that's not regular season, and Bloody is wrong on the number, but I think he was trying to draw the distinction between career and season highs.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: DCowboysGal
Doesn't it strike anyone as a little worrisome that we're so reliant on one player game in and game out? Last year with Nash and Finley also in the lineup we had 3 guys who could consistently put up 20+ ppg and would readily and ably take on the role of go-to-guy. This year, it just seems like everyone just sits around waiting for Nowitzki to do something. If something happened to Dirk, just how good would we be against teams like SA, SEA, PHO, etc. while they were at full strength?

I'm not worried. I'm absolutely ecstatic about what dirk did today, and I'm happy that the mavs won. Sure, the mavs are far from a finished product, but I for one, was not expecting the mavs to be hitting on all cylinders this early in the season. Give it time, enjoy the victories, and get worried when we lose!

[grndmstr_c]

Doesn't it strike anyone as a little worrisome that we're so reliant on one player game in and game out? Last year with Nash and Finley also in the lineup we had 3 guys who could consistently put up 20+ ppg and would readily and ably take on the role of go-to-guy. This year, it just seems like everyone just sits around waiting for Nowitzki to do something. If something happened to Dirk, just how good would we be against teams like SA, SEA, PHO, etc. while they were at full strength?

It's a huge problem. I'm happy the Mavs got the win, and what can you say about Dirk, but with Fin out, Quis hurting, a rookie starter at point, and Stack sucking, this is a team in serious need of a shot of offensive goodness. We need Fin back, and we either need Devin to figure out what he's doing out there or for JT to get the start.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: DCowboysGal
Doesn't it strike anyone as a little worrisome that we're so reliant on one player game in and game out? Last year with Nash and Finley also in the lineup we had 3 guys who could consistently put up 20+ ppg and would readily and ably take on the role of go-to-guy. This year, it just seems like everyone just sits around waiting for Nowitzki to do something. If something happened to Dirk, just how good would we be against teams like SA, SEA, PHO, etc. while they were at full strength?

I don't like it but I can't complain about it if we're winning with it which has been rare this season. It's sickening to watch this team enjoy the Dirk show he's putting on. That's a reason why Dirk has taken so many shots this season. He can't pass to anyone while in shooting motion if they are sitting their watching him play by himself. This team isn't going to go anywhere like that in the playoffs. It will work against lowly teams like the Rockets and Grizzlies but it won't against teams like the Spurs.

[ocelot_ark]

Ummm...the fact that we rely on one player is...ummm...IDEAL! Name the last NBA Champions that had three guys average 20 or more. We're better served to have one BIG scorer and a bunch of role players + Finley. I think people are forgetting that Finley's presence will REALLY, REALLY help our offense. As long as he doesn't come back and pull a Stackhouse, the floor should really open up for Josh, Quis to be the slashers. Honestly, as long as our defense is continually getting better and putting us into a position to win, we'll be better than we were when we had the big 3. The only thing this team REALLY, REALLY needs is a shooter. If Finley comes back and hits 45% of his 3's we'll be sitting pretty.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

It seems to me JT has all the tools, but the only thing he lacks is the killer instinct. He needs to get more victories under his belt.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Daniels ice cold out there. He absolutely has icy blood in his veins. four straight points by him sealed it.

This isn't the only game he has done this. He usually does all the little things that wins games in key moments of a game. He is clutch and he is only going to get better when he fully recovers from his ankle sprain.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
Ummm...the fact that we rely on one player is...ummm...IDEAL! Name the last NBA Champions that had three guys average 20 or more. We're better served to have one BIG scorer and a bunch of role players + Finley. I think people are forgetting that Finley's presence will REALLY, REALLY help our offense. As long as he doesn't come back and pull a Stackhouse, the floor should really open up for Josh, Quis to be the slashers. Honestly, as long as our defense is continually getting better and putting us into a position to win, we'll be better than we were when we had the big 3. The only thing this team REALLY, REALLY needs is a shooter. If Finley comes back and hits 45% of his 3's we'll be sitting pretty.

It's great that Dirk can dominate. It really sucks if we have to ride him for 53 points to get wins against mediocre teams in the regular season. It will be a long season if we need this from Dirk every night. If we thought Nash was pooped by the playoffs, imagine what Dirk would be like.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

It's a huge problem. I'm happy the Mavs got the win, and what can you say about Dirk, but with Fin out, Quis hurting, a rookie starter at point, and Stack sucking, this is a team in serious need of a shot of offensive goodness. We need Fin back, and we either need Devin to figure out what he's doing out there or for JT to get the start.

Terry and Stack should be playing alot better than they are. I don't rag on Terry much because I know it isn't easy coming off the bench and asking to contribute. I don't care if he gets 40 minutes a night coming off the bench it's still not easy coming into the game cold and having to warm up. Nellie has got to start Terry. Leave Stack on the bench. The less minutes the better but give JT the starting nod. I think Harris will be a much better option coming off the bench with a spark rather than Terry.

[Bayliss]

Dirk can't do this every night. But you can't have it both ways:

Either Dirk is going to be "da man" and everyone defers to him on everything

or

Dirk is part of a "show" and is used sporadically

I'll take the former any day of the week. And if people say the Mavs can't win this way, then I'll say: why not? Talent wise Dallas just as much talent as the Spurs in their chapionship runs. As soon as a few of the yungsters start shooting better. This team will be deadly. And "[erimeter shooting" is what killed the Mavs in the last two SA games. When Dirk passed it, no one else could consistently hit a shot.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

I agree with FFM. I just wish Nellie would agree. I think Harris would be fabulous coming off the bench with all of his energy.

[bloodyhell]

>>OK, $20 if you can post a link to the box score on the official NBA site for a regular season game in the 2004-2005 season where Dirk scored 43 points before 12/2/04. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img][/quote]

Typo. Although I think he also did 43 in a playoff game. i'll have to look.



>that's not regular season,

Well I consider the playoffs to be part of the overall playing season. As for career highs I also consider them in the factor. I don't ever just consider the "'""regular"'"" season. I consider the most points in a game. "Season" could mean a number of things. Like time of year. Winter spring, fall. In the late spring, early summer season he had 46.

>and Bloody is wrong on the number,

Uh no, it was a typo. As we can clearly see, 46 is closer to 45 than 43 is, so I was actually closer in numbers than you were. You were incorrect. In fact you were off by 2 numbers. I was closer.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
Ummm...the fact that we rely on one player is...ummm...IDEAL! Name the last NBA Champions that had three guys average 20 or more. We're better served to have one BIG scorer and a bunch of role players + Finley. I think people are forgetting that Finley's presence will REALLY, REALLY help our offense. As long as he doesn't come back and pull a Stackhouse, the floor should really open up for Josh, Quis to be the slashers. Honestly, as long as our defense is continually getting better and putting us into a position to win, we'll be better than we were when we had the big 3. The only thing this team REALLY, REALLY needs is a shooter. If Finley comes back and hits 45% of his 3's we'll be sitting pretty.

What happens in the playoffs when Dirk is 9-22 with 10 free throw attempts? You're not going to get far relying on one player to win you games. This is how the 6ers and the Magic of last year played. They relied on T-Mac and AI and got nowhere. I know you want to compare this situation with Duncan but he is surrounded by the same role players every year. They have that chemistry and they are a great defensive team. That's not exactly what the Mavs have right now. This offense needs some retooling. I don't mind Dirk getting 20+ shots a game because he should but he can't be the only option on offense for us. We aren't going to be going anywhere playing that ball.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

It's great that Dirk can dominate. It really sucks if we have to ride him for 53 points to get wins against mediocre teams in the regular season. It will be a long season if we need this from Dirk every night. If we thought Nash was pooped by the playoffs, imagine what Dirk would be like.

This has happened one time. Tim Duncan scored over 50 against US, doesn't mean the Spurs weren't a playoff monster. This was one game, probably won't happen again when Finley gets back. The fact is, Dirk's our best shooter. Why WOULDN'T you want him to take shots? Fatigue? Hell no. He's a jump shooter foremost, doesn't take a lot of energy to take jump shots. If dirk was posting up 20 times a night we might have a problem.

[Mavs Rule]

I can't wait until halftime of the Nuggets and Cavs game to see if they give Dirk his props. No doubt Barkeley will find a negative somewhere.

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: Bayliss
Dirk can't do this every night. But you can't have it both ways:

Either Dirk is going to be "da man" and everyone defers to him on everything

or

Dirk is part of a "show" and is used sporadically

I'll take the former any day of the week. And if people say the Mavs can't win this way, then I'll say: why not? Talent wise Dallas just as much talent as the Spurs in their chapionship runs. As soon as a few of the yungsters start shooting better. This team will be deadly. And "[erimeter shooting" is what killed the Mavs in the last two SA games. When Dirk passed it, no one else could consistently hit a shot.

Speaking of San Antonio, I remember a couple of years ago listening to the internet broadcast of a game, and Tim duncan score 49 against the mavs. At one point, the spurs kept feeding duncan repeatedly for like five consecutive possessions. Duncan seemed virtually unstoppable, as did the spurs. Tonight's overtime performance by dirk kind of reminded me of that. My point is is that GOOD teams do play this way.

[EricaLubarsky]

you misread me. I just said that I want Dirk to get some help. He can go off for 53 or 60 in the playoffs, but if we need him to do that every night to get a "w" then we are in some deep poo-poo.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Bayliss
Dirk can't do this every night. But you can't have it both ways:

Either Dirk is going to be "da man" and everyone defers to him on everything

or

Dirk is part of a "show" and is used sporadically

I'll take the former any day of the week. And if people say the Mavs can't win this way, then I'll say: why not? Talent wise Dallas just as much talent as the Spurs in their chapionship runs. As soon as a few of the yungsters start shooting better. This team will be deadly. And "[erimeter shooting" is what killed the Mavs in the last two SA games. When Dirk passed it, no one else could consistently hit a shot.

The difference between us and the Spurs is that they have played with the same core of players every year. The Mavs don't have that luxury. I think you can have it both ways. The problem with Dirk being the man this season is that the team sits there and watches him play. Then when Dirk's ready to pass they are unexpecting it. They then either miss the catch or throw up a miss. I don't like the idea of the ball always in Dirk's hand. I don't like the idea of us relying on Dirk to be a playmaker. I like the idea of Dirk being our scorer. Our number one scorer. You can't expect Dirk to put up 50 points a night. IMO, that's the only way we can consistently when if we are going to continue to run this type of offense.

[EricaLubarsky]

Uh no, it was a typo. As we can clearly see, 46 is closer to 45 than 43 is, so I was actually closer in numbers than you were. You were incorrect. In fact you were off by 2 numbers. I was closer.

well if you compare apples to oranges....go for it. Someone asked for the career high and I said 43, thinking it was regular season which we are in now. Until you provide evidence that Dirk scored more than 43 in the regular season, you have no grounds to critique me.

If you are going to play the "typo" card, then shouldn't you give me the same? I'll give you two different typos ('regular season', and '45').

P.S. You mentioned "45" twice so its hard to say that that was a typo. That means three typos, and two typos on a repitition that you didnt catch, I guess.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: Mavs Rule
I can't wait until halftime of the Nuggets and Cavs game to see if they give Dirk his props. No doubt Barkeley will find a negative somewhere.

Doug Collins (I think) talked very highly of him earlier in the Cavs game. He even brought up the Miami game.

[bloodyhell]

If dirk is 10 for 20 he's still 50%. If he's just a little lower, who cares, the guy sparks our team and gets the job done. It is up to others to also step up. We want our start to shoot the most shots. It's worked before when we played the spurs in a few games. Of course We had a team that gelled better back then imo. Yes of course others need to step up and we can hone in on our goals. It's not like dirk is trying to be ivserson or something. Personally I don't think he even did that well or up to his full potential.

[bernardos70]

Fun game. Dirk: 57 efficiency points tonite.

[ocelot_ark]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

What happens in the playoffs when Dirk is 9-22 with 10 free throw attempts? You're not going to get far relying on one player to win you games. This is how the 6ers and the Magic of last year played. They relied on T-Mac and AI and got nowhere. I know you want to compare this situation with Duncan but he is surrounded by the same role players every year. They have that chemistry and they are a great defensive team. That's not exactly what the Mavs have right now. This offense needs some retooling. I don't mind Dirk getting 20+ shots a game because he should but he can't be the only option on offense for us. We aren't going to be going anywhere playing that ball.

If that happens I'd assume the Mavericks must have had another player that was getting pretty hot. I'd also assume that 6-7 possessions we would have got extra (as a result of dirk not shooting free throws as a result of stupid fouls by the other team) would result in a few points. I just don't see how anyone can WORRY about this. Lighten up.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: JLEEHASMUCHGAME
I agree with FFM. I just wish Nellie would agree. I think Harris would be fabulous coming off the bench with all of his energy.

I try not to harp on Nellie too much but I hate his idea of having a spark off the bench. It's too gimmicky. A guy coming off the bench can get anywhee from 30-40 minutes a night. Just start the guy.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Doug Collins (I think) talked very highly of him earlier in the Cavs game. He even brought up the Miami game.

edited.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

I try not to harp on Nellie too much but I hate his idea of having a spark off the bench. It's too gimmicky. A guy coming off the bench can get anywhee from 30-40 minutes a night. Just start the guy.

It's a pure gimmick, and it works sometimes, BUT
1) there needs to only be one. Is our relief spark Terry or Stack
and
2) the spark needs to either be a momentum guy (NVE) or a high-percentage guy (Jamison)

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark

If that happens I'd assume the Mavericks must have had another player that was getting pretty hot. I'd also assume that 6-7 possessions we would have got extra (as a result of dirk not shooting free throws as a result of stupid fouls by the other team) would result in a few points. I just don't see how anyone can WORRY about this. Lighten up.

I just hate to watch us play like Eastern Conference teams. It sort of reminds me of Jordan when he played with the Wizards except he wasn't the rebounder or the scorer Dirk is now. I even heard tonight that the team enjoyed sitting back and watching Dirk play tonight. That's exactly what they did. I'm sorry if i'm not hyped about beating the Rockets at home. I just have the two double digit losses to the Spurs still in my head.

[bloodyhell]

I don't agree. Mine was a legit typo. You never claimed yours was. I consider the playoffs to be a part of the whole basketball season. So to me the 2004-2005 season from nov. til the end of the finals or playoffs would be a "full" season imo. If the mavs didn't make the playoffs then that would be the end of their season imo. I often hear announcers and comentators talk about it that way as well. If he had said "REGULAR" season then I would have changed my stats. I believe he also got 43 in the playoffs as well although I will have to go dig that one up since no one here is willing to.

45 is closer to 46 then 43 is.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

It's a pure gimmick, and it works sometimes, BUT
1) there needs to only be one. Is our relief spark Terry or Stack
and
2) the spark needs to either be a momentum guy (NVE) or a high-percentage guy (Jamison)

Don't get me wrong we need a guy coming off the bench but this year it's pure gimmick. Terry shouldn't be the guy coming off the bench. If Stack wasn't playing so bad i'd say he shouldn't be that so called spark either but he doesn't need to be in the starting lineup. Terry however needs to be. It's not like we can't afford to start him. Last season we had to sit Jamison. It was too much of a clog at the foward position. This year we are struggling at the point and the answer to that problem could possibly be right in front of ours. It bugs me to sit and watch Terry sit on the bench and come into the game stinking.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: bloodyhell
I don't agree. Mine was a legit typo. You never claimed yours was. I consider the playoffs to be a part of the whole basketball season. So to me the 2004-2005 season from nov. til the end of the finals or playoffs would be a "full" season imo.

technically there is the season, then the post-season (post meaning after). There are season highs and playoff highs, but I have never seen a playoff game included in a season high.

If the mavs didn't make the playoffs then that would be the end of their season imo. I often hear announcers and commenters talk about it that way as well. If he had said "REGULAR" season then I would have changed my stats.

So you can have three typos....but I am wrong because the original poster failed to indicate whether he was talking career regular-season or career "full-season"?

I believe he also got 43 in the playoffs as well although I will have to go dig that one up since no one here is willing to.

I already provided a link to a game where he scored 46. Does it matter if he had a 43 point game? I guess you aren't willing to read the thread close enough to see that I had already done the research.

45 is closer to 46 then 43 is.

ridiculous statement. If you say I'm wrong then I can tell you that you are wrong as well. Those are the rules of the game. If I'm wrong on an indicator (and not the number), then comparing numbers is of no value.

[steponhens]

Who cares if Dirk scored 53 and the Mav's won. I don't care if we rely on him when he plays like that. Would you have rather lost the game? When any player plays as good as he did tonight you ride him for everything he's got. If other players would have stepped up and took shots away from Dirk everyone would be calling for Don Nelson to be fired for not knowing Dirk is the best player on the team. Every team has tough games during the season against teams they should beat, and when you pull them out, take it and be happy at the end of the season when you have home court in the playoffs. Just be happy sometimes. If anything this just reaffirms to everone Dirk is taking over the team and wants to be "the man".

[dude1394]

Wow...What a lotta fun at the AAC tonight! Unbelievable. McGrady/Dirk...two guys with a ton of respect for each other...Great,great game.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Wow...What a lotta fun at the AAC tonight! Unbelievable. McGrady/Dirk...two guys with a ton of respect for each other...Great,great game.

you got to see it live?

[JLEEHASMUCHGAME]

Originally posted by: steponhens
Who cares if Dirk scored 53 and the Mav's won. I don't care if we rely on him when he plays like that. Would you have rather lost the game? When any player plays as good as he did tonight you ride him for everything he's got. If other players would have stepped up and took shots away from Dirk everyone would be calling for Don Nelson to be fired for not knowing Dirk is the best player on the team. Every team has tough games during the season against teams they should beat, and when you pull them out, take it and be happy at the end of the season when you have home court in the playoffs. Just be happy sometimes. If anything this just reaffirms to everone Dirk is taking over the team and wants to be "the man".

I'm happy. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

You betcha I did, just got back...supercalifragiliciousexpealidocious.

And I agree I wanted to strangle nellie when he took damp out at the end of the game. The guys behind me were very,very vocal about it.. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

What was the tnt broadcast like, bet it was sumthing else.

[Just211]

Dirk scoring 53 isn't bad, but IMO the Mavs looked awful tonight. They lack ball rotation & movement on offense, and that will eventually catch up with them. Hopefully they improve with time spent together, but if they keep winning games like these, they might not learn