Artest - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kriD · 04-12-2005, 04:39 AM

Dallas trades:
SF Josh Howard (12.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.4 apg in 32.4 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.4 minutes)

Dallas receives:
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, -3.8 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

Indiana trades:
SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes)

Indiana receives:
SF Josh Howard (12.3 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.4 apg in 32.4 minutes)
SG Marquis Daniels (9.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.0 apg in 24.4 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, +3.8 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Would you do it?

Terry / Harris
Finley / Stack
Artest / KvH
Dirk / KvH
Dampier / M'Benga (Pavel)

ZueriMav · 04-12-2005, 04:47 AM

Just plain und simple: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

fin4life · 04-12-2005, 08:34 PM

not a chance

I could never bring myself to trade away two tremendous talents who are prime contributors for the sketchiest player in the NBA. Cant do it.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-12-2005, 11:02 PM

I can understand Daniels, but you must be nuts if you want to trade Howard. This guy has all the makings of a truly phenominal player. He's definately a future all-star IMO, and he's only in his second year. He's already almost as good as Artest, and will definately surpass him. Artest on the other hand is a liability. Howard and Daniels for Artest? Hell, why don't we trade Dirk to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace as well?

Just211 · 04-12-2005, 11:06 PM

ARTEST = overrated

EricaLubarsky · 04-13-2005, 02:26 AM

Are you nuts? I'd give Henderson and maybe Bradley for him. He's nuts, and he's just a few years more mature than Howard.

fin4life · 04-13-2005, 07:53 PM

hahha... u just called artest mature [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

jayC · 04-15-2005, 11:26 AM

Indiana thinks artest is a top 10 player. Howard and Daniels obviously wouldn't be enough from their stand point. Artest is only 25. Artest also thinks he is an MVP candididate every year, before the incident.

coopster · 04-16-2005, 11:01 AM

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo way[img]i/expressions/anim_shocked.gif[/img]

SaltwaterChaffy · 04-17-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson
I can understand Daniels, but you must be nuts if you want to trade Howard. This guy has all the makings of a truly phenominal player. He's definately a future all-star IMO, and he's only in his second year. He's already almost as good as Artest, and will definately surpass him. Artest on the other hand is a liability. Howard and Daniels for Artest? Hell, why don't we trade Dirk to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace as well?

To say that Howard will definitely pass Artest is going out on a very thin limb. Though freakin' crazy, Artest is an amazing basketball player. He's easily one of the top 3 defenders in the league, and is far more proficient than Howard is on offense. I believe that at some point I have voiced my opinion that Artest was the MVP of the Pacers 61 win team last year, not O'Neal, and I stand by that. We should not overvalue Howard vs. Artest in a basketball argument just due to Artest's mentality.

P.S. Would I do the trade? Probably not. Artest is just too damn volatile. If there was some sort of guarantee that he would become a model citizen, than I would do it in a heartbeat.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-17-2005, 07:24 PM

Like it or not, Artest's attitude does factor in. He single handedly almost destroyed the Pacers' season this year. He's been a major headache for them his entire career. To be totally honest though, I haven't watched him play very much, so I will take back what I said about Howard definately passing Artest. However, if you ask me if who I'd rather have on my team, Artest or Howard, I'll take Howard. Artest is great player sure, but bottom line, he's a liability.

SaltwaterChaffy · 04-18-2005, 01:26 AM

Agreed Spiral. The only point that I was trying to make is that from a pure basketball mindset, Artest is far above where Howard currently stands. Team chemistry of the 2004-05 Dallas Mavericks involved? I'd much rather have Howard.

Thespiralgoeson · 04-18-2005, 02:23 AM

You know, I really can't help but wonder what's going to happen to Artest. You'd think that the Pacers would bend over backwards trying to trade him before next season after all the headache he's caused. Yet, the organization still seems to have little to no interest in moving him.

aexchange · 04-27-2005, 07:56 AM

i would do terry/daniels for artest.

that solves indiana's problem at the PG spot and they can swing Jackson down to SF while plugging in Daniels at the SG spot.

kingrex · 04-27-2005, 11:06 AM

If this trade was made, it would automatically jack up the "toughness" factor of this team.

The big issue for me would be giving up the upside that Marquis and Josh have for a malcontent, rapper-wannabe with amazing basketball skills.

I would somewhat reluctantly pass on this trade. It's tempting, but I'm building for 3 or 4 years down the road, not just for next year.

dalmations202 · 04-27-2005, 04:42 PM

Until these playoffs, I would have said no way. After seeing the first 2 games --- let me think on it a little bit. Maybe.

EricaLubarsky · 04-27-2005, 05:11 PM

Josh Howard is putting up 17ppg on 50%, and chipping in 9 rebounds.

kg_veteran · 04-28-2005, 09:27 AM

How about Stackhouse/Daniels for Artest/Pollard?

Dampier - Bradley - Pollard
Nowitzki - KVH
Artest - Finley
Howard - Terry
Hrris

Looks like a killer defensive set to me.

Usually Lurkin · 04-28-2005, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
If this trade was made, it would automatically jack up the "toughness" factor of this team.

unfortunately, it would also tough up the "jackass" factor of the team.

I would be tempted, we do need that shut-down defender.
And the artest-pollard looks even better.

But we don't have Nellie the pacifier anymore. Artest's ego would dominate the team and he would be poison here.

kingrex · 04-28-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Usually Lurkin

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
If this trade was made, it would automatically jack up the "toughness" factor of this team.

unfortunately, it would also tough up the "jackass" factor of the team.

I would be tempted, we do need that shut-down defender.
And the artest-pollard looks even better.

But we don't have Nellie the pacifier anymore. Artest's ego would dominate the team and he would be poison here.

made me giggle.

although cuban pretty much has the "jackass" factor at 100% already. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 04-28-2005, 10:27 AM

I'd gladly give up Stack and Marquis to get him.

kingrex · 04-28-2005, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'd gladly give up Stack and Marquis to get him.

Would you still do it knowing he would miss 3/4ths of the regular season as long as he was available for the playoffs?

kg_veteran · 04-28-2005, 10:57 AM

That's an assumption, but yeah, probably.

kingrex · 04-28-2005, 05:18 PM

I have to admit, that Artest is really intriguing. His ability to lockdown a player from almost every position 1 to 4 makes you forgive a lot of the wrong that he can bring.

dalmations202 · 04-29-2005, 10:32 AM

As much as I like Stack/Daniels........ I'd have to do it. I'd use Pollard in the Henderson role. If you could let DA go and sign NVE, that would be a salty bunch.
Also, KG is correct -- Fin needs to move to a 6th man role.

Dampier - Bradley - Pollard
Nowitzki - KVH
Artest - Finley
Howard - Terry
Hrris - NVE

And space for Benga or PPod to get some burn, possibly both with Pollard on the IR.

* With the way that the teams have played out, Dallas really needs Benga to step up next year though, and be able to be a lockdown Frontcourt Defender like Ben Wallace.

Arne · 05-05-2005, 04:14 PM

As long as Howard, Nowitzki and Dampier stayed in Dallas, I would trade everyone else one on one against Artest. Last year his direct opposing players scored (By the way, that's just what Carlisle said...) scored 7,8 PPG in 36 minutes or so... If he could bring anything near that to the table, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

With him on the roster we were already in the next round and T-mac wouldn't only chocke in the fourth quarter, he would do it throughout the whole game.

Pirate · 05-05-2005, 06:14 PM

I agree with Arne - except I put Harris on that list (along with Dirk, Damp, JHo) as players that are off limits in a trade for Artest. Then if Indy wants to match up salaries with the other Mavs and work a deal for Artest, let's go.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-05-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
* With the way that the teams have played out, Dallas really needs Benga to step up next year though, and be able to be a lockdown Frontcourt Defender like Ben Wallace.

The idea of Benga being able to play half-way decently at all, let alone being a lockdown defender like Ben Wallace is very very very very very very very very very optimistic. Ben Wallace just won defensive player of the year for the 3rd time. Dampier is a superb frontcourt defender. He's a bit slow defending the pick and roll, but most centers are. Dirk is a very good defender. Josh is already a great defender, and he's only in his second year. Benga has phenominal athleticism, but he has a long way to go before he can even play significant minutes, let alone being anywhere near Ben Wallace's league. Don't get your hopes up about Benga being anything at all. I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't count on it. I bet we'll see Pavel out there before Benga.

dalmations202 · 05-06-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

The idea of Benga being able to play half-way decently at all, let alone being a lockdown defender like Ben Wallace is very very very very very very very very very optimistic. Ben Wallace just won defensive player of the year for the 3rd time. Dampier is a superb frontcourt defender. He's a bit slow defending the pick and roll, but most centers are. Dirk is a very good defender. Josh is already a great defender, and he's only in his second year. Benga has phenominal athleticism, but he has a long way to go before he can even play significant minutes, let alone being anywhere near Ben Wallace's league. Don't get your hopes up about Benga being anything at all. I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't count on it. I bet we'll see Pavel out there before Benga.

I tend to agree with all you said. Problem is, Dallas needs a Ben Wallace type defender. Not a banger, or post defender, but an athletic PF/C face-up defender. I think Damp does fine with Shaq, Yao, etc that bang -- he is strong and does play well. The players that scare me are the Amare, TD's, etc that face-up and then utilize quickness to get to the rim. Damp/Bradley is too slow. Dirk always goes for the strip instead of moving his feet, and Dirk is good defensively, but don't overrate him. He is still slow off the floor - which is why he will never be a true shot-blocker.

Pavel may or may not develop quicker, but in the end, he will be a banger as well, and he is no where near in the quickness range of Shaq.

Benga is the only one I have seen that although he is very very very raw and unseasoned..........he has the athletic ability to play Amare, or any other quick frontcourt player in the league. I am not holding my breath to see him anytime soon, but Dallas needs him to develop badly...........if they ever want to dominate.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-06-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202

Dirk always goes for the strip instead of moving his feet, and Dirk is good defensively, but don't overrate him. He is still slow off the floor - which is why he will never be a true shot-blocker.

All I said was that Dirk was a "very good" defender. I never said that I thought he was as good as Marion or Duncan. I don't think Dirk being a "very good" defender is overrating him at all. He's certainly above average.

yanirar · 05-09-2005, 07:56 AM

Just plain und simple: NOOOOOOOO

Redbug · 05-10-2005, 01:26 AM

YES....I'd give them Howard, Daniels, Damp, Fin, ....anybody but Dirk, Harris, Terry....everybody else is trade bait.....

Josh & Daniels are athletic role players that try to play like superstars....meaning they are DUMB basketball players...they don't bust arse trying to fill thier roles...instead they selfishly jack up dumb shots that just kills their teams chances and they lose focus, get lazy, and coast on defense too much....they are not winners and will bring your team down to the level of the Atlanta's and New Orleans...

Artest is nuts....but he's got exactly what the Mavs have never had and has always needed....the guy can play lockdown D on anybody in the league and he will score and board on the offensive end and has the confidence and swagger the Mavs are lacking........