Caron Butler´s injury Thread

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Someone who's trying to save cash, may try to trade for his contract, buy it out on 90 cents on the dollar. Donnies' not going to look desperate, drives market values down. 3 million and a pick going the other way, isn't all that bad of a package if unloading salary. PR move on Nelson's part.

this, because we have to add depth.

SF:
Marion, undersized Stevenson and the next option is allready three guards with Kidd as SF

PF:
Dirk and if Marion is a fulltime SF we have Cardinal/Mahinmi/Ajinca behind Dirk

Thats just terrible depth. Just imagine normal foultrouble for Marion or Dirk (and this will happen).

And the solution for depth is for sure NOT some D-League player...

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by sefant77

this, because we have to add depth.

SF:
Marion, undersized Stevenson and the next option is allready three guards with Kidd as SF

PF:
Dirk and if Marion is a fulltime SF we have Cardinal/Mahinmi/Ajinca behind Dirk

Thats just terrible depth. Just imagine normal foultrouble for Marion or Dirk (and this will happen).

And the solution for depth is for sure NOT some D-League player...

Pretty darn ugly in terms of depth. We don't even need to hit a homerun on a trade to get back in to this thing. Marion can roll 32 a night, Dirk 36. Go fishing with 5 million trade exception and find a 3-4 type. Another option, less likely is to parlay Haywood into 2 players a 3 and another player who can backup the 4-5 spots. If I was Cuban, I'd be looking up Rasheed Wallace's number to see his level of interest.

[dalger]

I fully believe that Donnie's just trying to not reduce what's left of Caron's trade value any further. There's no way we can finish this season with the lack of depth at the forward positions ans hope to be competitive in the playoffs. Neither Dirk nor Marion have a legitimate backup at this point and we certainly don't want two 32-year-old veterans to play heavy minutes in the regular season to make up for it.

The best-case scenario would be to sign a small forward who's able to replace Caron's offensive impact while strengthening our forward rotation at the same time. A lot of players have been mentioned around here and I wouldn't be shocked to see one of them end up as a Mav. At least I hope one of them will come our way.

[tcat075]

One last look at Butler. You guys are getting it early, before it publishes on MMB! Exclusive!

We learned a lot about Caron since he arrived last February. His past, a cage whose clutches he was able to break free of. His Mountain Dew addiction, a habit he had broken out of but resurfaced out of intrigue from the new fanbase. The in-game straw chewing, another odd habit which was embraced by the fanbase until a stern ban was issued. Of course, his game on the basketball court also quickly became apparent. Though Youtube videos from years ago made us believe that Butler would cram dunks over Yao Ming and LeBron James and drive the lane with furiosity, regardless of possible consequences, he turned out to be another jump shooter. Jump shooting, though, was not malign in and of itself...after all, the Mavericks live and die off of their German juggernaut's sweet touch from mid-range. However, the dearth of ball movement, the pull-up jumper while obviously standing on the three point line or perhaps a few inches inside, the struggle to finish at the basket, and just the volume of shots began to wear on people quickly. This isn't to say that his first year with Dallas was a complete disaster, but there was a lot which was left to be wished for.

In the offseason, word spread of Butler's effort to get back to his All-Star form, working to get back his explosiveness and overall athleticism. Certainly, this was better than, say, guzzling five Mountain Dews a day. But preseason came and went, and while Butler did look ripped, his game seemed even worse. But that was just preseason, right? But Butler started the regular season cold, and 39% field goal shooting and 4-11 3 point shooting and 14 turnovers in 6 games. An injury kept him out for three games, and upon his return, his combined 5-17 shooting and 3 turnovers back to back demoralizing loses made some question whether or not this team was actually better with Butler clogging the offense and disrupting its flow.

His turnaround was not clearly visible. There was no 50, 40 or even 30 point game that had fans hold their bated breath thinking he might have clicked. There was no Dirk-esque 11/14 shooting night, no triple double, no posterizing dunk in the fast break, no game winning shot. The turnaround started with just a normal game -- Caron doing work -- scoring 13 against the Hawks on 46% shooting. A simple performance buried beneath many other storylines.

For the Mavericks, it was an unremarkable win which, looking back, started their twelve game winning streak. For Butler, it was an unremarkable performance that began his best stretch as a Maverick. How good? In this game and the following nineteen, Caron scored 16.3 points a game on 48% from the field and 44% from beyond the arc. The points were important, but the efficiency more so. His black hole tendencies still made appearances on a nightly basis, but began to fade out, replaced by a player who moved the ball, took shots in rhythm with the offense, and who refused to settle...and least not always.

It wasn't an immediate change, but as those twenty games progressed, this new Butler was showing himself more and more often. By the last seven of them, Butler was up to 19.9 points per contest with only the slightest drop in efficiency, to 47% from the floor. His three point shooting had even increased by a percentile.

Why do I say this? I know, it seems masochistic of me...trying to prove how great a player was playing after a season ending injury. But if nobody understands what Butler brought to the table, then how can it be replaced? Many national writers pen that Butler is just an jump shooter who scores 15 a game, and that his percentages are currently bloated and doomed to fall back. I would disagree. Butler is a scorer who was finally understanding and playing within the Mavericks system, scoring more, and more efficiently, as the season had progressed.

Whether or not he was for real does not matter though, when it comes to replacing him, something the nationals also don't seem to get. Maybe his percentages were way out of whack, and that they would have fallen back closer to career averages by the end of the season. Without injuries earlier in the year, the Mavericks were a contender. Now, they have to find the pieces to get back to that same situation. They have to replace the Butler who was scoring extremely efficiently, not some other Butler that may have appeared later in the year, because the goal is to be a contender, and they've proven that they can do it free of injuries and with a player providing offense as Caron did.

I don't know how the Mavericks are going to replace him; likely it will not just be a single big fix, such as acquiring Kevin Martin, but several small ones. Even trades are risky, because as Butler shows clear as night and day, it may take some time for a player to grow into their role in a system. In this case, I don't think the Mavericks can wait until the middle of next season to be clicking on full cylinders with their new trade acquisition. And everyone knows this, but Roddy Beaubois' effectiveness upon his return is becoming more and more vital. The Mavericks were considered a championship contender without him, so if he can replace nearly all of what Butler brought, with the other little bit coming from Stevenson, or Marion, or Cardinal, then it stands to reason they'll be right back where they were.

As for Butler, this might be the sad goodbye. If so, what a disappointing end to what could have been his most special season. We miss you, Caron, and thanks.

[j0Shi]

Maybe a silly question, but I am really not into those kind of stuff:

Is there a possibility to trade Caron, send cash for a buyout and then resign him, maybe not even as a player, so that he remains a part of the franchise for the rest of the season?

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Maybe a silly question, but I am really not into those kind of stuff:

Is there a possibility to trade Caron, send cash for a buyout and then resign him, maybe not even as a player, so that he remains a part of the franchise for the rest of the season?

No other team would agree to this AND send a quality player with in the trade because it would kill Butlers S&T (or even re-sign) value for the other team...

And you can send maximum 3M in cash

[LonghornDub]

Probably just Butler trying to inject the team with some optimism, but he says he could return for the playoffs:

Caron Butler: 'Just need some time'


By Jeff Caplan
ESPNDallas.com
Archive

DALLAS -- Dallas Mavericks forward Caron Butler, who suffered a ruptured patellar tendon and was deemed out for the season, said Tuesday he'll be ready to play in four months.

Butler, making his first appearance at practice since suffering the right knee injury, said his history with a similar procedure on his left knee as a teenager leads him to believe that he could return to action in four months. That timetable would have him back on the court in late April or early May, which would be either toward the end of the first round of the playoffs or the start of the second round.

The actual post-surgery recovery time for a ruptured patellar tendon is four to six months.

"I know what muscles to keep fired, what little things to do," Butler said. "I just need some time. I've been through this before when I was 15 years old and it took about 4.5 months to come back from, and I was rolling. I was good. I was healthy. So I just need some time."

Butler, who was averaging 15.0 points and 4.1 rebounds this season, ruptured the patellar tendon in his right knee on Jan. 1 at Milwaukee. He underwent surgery on Jan. 4. The Mavericks are 2-6 during his absence, including a decade-worst six-game losing streak.

However, projecting too far into the future can be tricky. Butler is in a unique position because he is in the final year of a $10.6 million contract, making him a potential trade piece before the late February deadline.

Butler said he has not talked to owner Mark Cuban or president Donnie Nelson about his future.

"I've talked to them about basketball and they checked on me all the time to make sure I'm doing fine and seeing how my family is doing and stuff like that," Butler said. "Anything can happen. Like I said, I will be 100 percent again. So we'll see what happens."

Also, Mavericks center Tyson Chandler returned to practice Tuesday after missing the last two games with the flu. He expects to play in Wednesday's home game against the Los Angeles Lakers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...tory?id=603404

[BGMaverick9]

Yup, he also said he's planning on traveling with the team in Feb.
MMB will have the full rundown either tonight or first thing tomorrow.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Eh...a long shot at best.

[xrobx]

nvm.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by xrobx

if we don't make a trade it won't matter if he can play in the playoffs cause we probably won't be in them anyway, and if we somehow do claw our way in we certainly won't be in the second round, which is when he's saying he could be back

Dude, you need to take a break. Seriously.

[dude1394]

It's a tremendous long shot. Healing in 4.5 months at 15 is worlds apart from healing in 4.5 months at 31 years old. I would be shocked...and anyone betting on it better get some big odds.

I think he's a standup guy and it's great that he's saying it...but...fuggedaboutit...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by xrobx

if we don't make a trade it won't matter if he can play in the playoffs cause we probably won't be in them anyway, and if we somehow do claw our way in we certainly won't be in the second round, which is when he's saying he could be back

hopefully the mavs can wait until the trade deadline so that your panties can get stuck even further than they are now.

[dalger]

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much into it. Trying to rush back from a knee injury like this one is never a good idea. There are quite a lot of examples of athletes who came back from knee injuries rather early only to suffer the exact same injury again. That's not to say it only happened because these guys returned too early or that it would happen to Caron, but taking time seems to be a better idea when it comes to knee problems.

For him, it would probably be better to call it a season, take it easy and return in time for next season's training camp, wherever it will be.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Caron seems to be an awesome dude.

[sefant77]

Still i prefer Prince or another guy for this season and bring him back over the MLE...

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Dude, you need to take a break. Seriously.

yeah.. i think you're right. rock bottom sucks.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Still i prefer Prince or another guy for this season and bring him back over the MLE...

This.

[j0Shi]

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba...ory?id=6111931

Caron Butler: 'Having no setbacks'

Dallas Mavericks forward Caron Butler, who suffered what was believed to be a season-ending knee injury on Jan. 1, said his rehab is going well and his goal is still to return to action in time for the NBA playoffs.

Butler, who had surgery after suffering a ruptured right patellar tendon Jan. 1 at Milwaukee, has been traveling with the Mavericks. He's been exercising in the water and was walking on the treadmill this week.

"I'm doing great. I'm healing up well," Butler told Galloway & Company on ESPN 103.3 FM in Dallas. "My target is still the playoffs. It's something that I'm totally capable of doing. ... I'm responding well and having no setbacks."

Butler, who hopes to start running and lifting weights next week and start activities on the basketball court in the next 3-4 weeks, hasn't suffered any setbacks.

At the time of the injury, Butler was the Mavs' third-leading scorer, averaging 15.0 points over 29 games. He also averaged 4.1 rebounds.

Peja Stojakovic has emerged as Butler's replacement in the starting lineup. The Mavericks have started four players at small forward since Butler suffered a season-ending knee injury on New Year's Day.

[LonghornDub]

If Butler could return for the first round and be even 70% effective, that'd be huge.

[dalger]

Returning only four months after this kind of severe injury sounds dangerous and Caron wouldn't be the first athlete to pay a heavy price for coming back too early. I can understand his commitment and actually appreciate it very much, but his return date or even healing process shouldn't be dictated by the NBA calendar.

The earlier he returns, the less likely it is that he's ready. Considering how Dirk was struggling to get it going again after a mere knee sprain and a nine-game absence, I can only imagine how rusty Caron and his jumper would have to be after four months of rehabilitation due to a much more serious injury. Peja is another example, and he's only missed two months.

I hope that we don't have to get a somewhat ready Caron back into the rotation in April to have a shot at a good playoff run. He may certainly help, but he could just as well be a liability on his way back to the old Butler.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If Butler could return for the first round and be even 70% effective, that'd be huge.

I'm pretty worried about how "off" he will be. The only reason he was effective earlier was because it seemed like he was really feeling his jumper. I could see him come back and just clank-clank-clank in the playoffs.

[FINtastic]

Yeah, I'm not really sure how much a 70% Butler actually helps us. I like him and everything, but we kind of need him near the top of his game if we really want him to be a contributing factor. If we're throwing a barely healthy guy out there, it has the potential to really muck things up.

[ghazi]

can we please trade him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Yeah, I'm not really sure how much a 70% Butler actually helps us. I like him and everything, but we kind of need him near the top of his game if we really want him to be a contributing factor. If we're throwing a barely healthy guy out there, it has the potential to really muck things up.

70% Butler helps us a lot more than 0% Butler.

We don't want to throw a "barely healthy" guy out there, but I wasn't suggesting that anyway. 70%.

It's all a pipe dream anyway, though, because I don't think there's any way he can come back that quickly.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

70% Butler helps us a lot more than 0% Butler.

We don't want to throw a "barely healthy" guy out there, but I wasn't suggesting that anyway. 70%.

It's all a pipe dream anyway, though, because I don't think there's any way he can come back that quickly.

We're probably arguing semantics here, but I'm of the opinion that 70% of any player that's not a star is probably going to be a net negative. 70% is a guy that is barely healthy in my book. I mean, have you ever really heard a guy who is playing saying that he's at anything less than 60-70%?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

We're probably arguing semantics here, but I'm of the opinion that 70% of any player that's not a star is probably going to be a net negative. 70% is a guy that is barely healthy in my book. I mean, have you ever really heard a guy who is playing saying that he's at anything less than 60-70%?

Yeah, I fundamentally disagree that a non-star is a net negative at 70%. Caron's a good basketball player. I'd take a hobbled Caron over no Caron any day of the week.

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by dalger

Returning only four months after this kind of severe injury sounds dangerous and Caron wouldn't be the first athlete to pay a heavy price for coming back too early. I can understand his commitment and actually appreciate it very much, but his return date or even healing process shouldn't be dictated by the NBA calendar.

The earlier he returns, the less likely it is that he's ready. Considering how Dirk was struggling to get it going again after a mere knee sprain and a nine-game absence, I can only imagine how rusty Caron and his jumper would have to be after four months of rehabilitation due to a much more serious injury. Peja is another example, and he's only missed two months.

I hope that we don't have to get a somewhat ready Caron back into the rotation in April to have a shot at a good playoff run. He may certainly help, but he could just as well be a liability on his way back to the old Butler.

See Jameer Nelson in the 09 Finals...I don't think he should have played in that Finals and you could tell he wasn't the same player before his injury and I think it hurt the Magic.

[mavs777]

Way too much of a risk too bring Caron back in the middle of the playoffs, think about the rust and he would probably be 2 steps slow on both ends, because of rust you also got to think he would struggle to make shots too

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Thomas86

See Jameer Nelson in the 09 Finals...I don't think he should have played in that Finals and you could tell he wasn't the same player before his injury and I think it hurt the Magic.

This is true, but that was also incredibly poorly managed by SVG. In the hypothetical situation that Caron is good enough to go, I trust Rick entirely to manage him properly.

Not to mention that throwing a guy into the mix during the Finals is not the same as doing it in the first round.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

This is true, but that was also incredibly poorly managed by SVG. In the hypothetical situation that Caron is good enough to go, I trust Rick entirely to manage him properly.

Not to mention that throwing a guy into the mix during the Finals is not the same as doing it in the first round.

And it is a natural difference just based off of position.

[dude1394]

Caron would be taking a huge chance wouldn't he be? I mean we are talking about a tendon that needs to re-attach itself. It seems incredibly risky bit ballsy.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

We're probably arguing semantics here, but I'm of the opinion that 70% of any player that's not a star is probably going to be a net negative. 70% is a guy that is barely healthy in my book. I mean, have you ever really heard a guy who is playing saying that he's at anything less than 60-70%?

Absolutely agree. A hobbled Caron hurts us. Lets not forget how awful Caron was at the beginning of the season. That Caron definitely hurt the team. 70% Caron is probably close to that Caron.

[xrobx]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Absolutely agree. A hobbled Caron hurts us. Lets not forget how awful Caron was at the beginning of the season. That Caron definitely hurt the team. 70% Caron is probably close to that Caron.

i'd imagine he'd be a lot worse. where did we pull this 70% number from anyway? players at 70% can't even play. anything less than a completely healed caron is useless to us

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by xrobx

i'd imagine he'd be a lot worse. where did we pull this 70% number from anyway? players at 70% can't even play. anything less than a completely healed caron is useless to us

It came from me saying I wanted Caron to be 70% effective, which of course is not the same as saying 70% healthy. But I sort of let it go on, so that's my bad.

In any event, people can bag on Caron for his inefficiency (or whatever) all they want, but I'm telling you right now that we're not making a deep playoff run without him (or without a replacement player for his contract).

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It came from me saying I wanted Caron to be 70% effective, which of course is not the same as saying 70% healthy. But I sort of let it go on, so that's my bad.

In any event, people can bag on Caron for his inefficiency (or whatever) all they want, but I'm telling you right now that we're not making a deep playoff run without him (or without a replacement player for his contract).

Yeah, but I don't think we make it any further with him not 100% healthy than we do without him.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by CadBane

Yeah, but I don't think we make it any further with him not 100% healthy than we do without him.

That may be true, but I have my reservations about that.

I'll tell you this, though: that is going to end up being just a killer injury. Last night notwithstanding, this team is showing it's the best Mavericks team in awhile. He frustrated me as much as anyone early in the year, but this could very well end up being the thing that (once again) prevents the Mavs from doing what they want to do in the postseason. How damn unfortunate.

[mavs777]

i like caron but the obvious decision has to be to trade him for at least a decent bench player

[deamon]

Trade him, at now we don't know we will play in 2nd round and what he will give us.

[Robillion]

I want Butler on this team after how he was playing before the injury and the chemistry he has here. I feel our defense was much better with him, and we had a really good thing going for us. I just wish that we can could get a hush hush agreement that he comes back to us via MLE in the summer so we can trade him for a piece that can help us this year. This way when he comes back... we are stacked.

[41mvp]

I also want Caron in our team.But now we need third scorer!If we think about NBA championship we should trade him!!!