Mavs trade deadline and draft thread - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Thespiralgoeson · 02-09-2024, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I haven?t seen anyone call the moves as losers. Well except Bill Simmons homer ass. Seen like warm opinions to great moves. And let?s be honest most of these people don?t watch the Mavs and know how undersized this team is.

When you add up Wood for a first, Grant for a first, and now PJ for a first, on the outside looking in without context, that doesn?t look great overall.

But we all know this team just got better. I honestly think they could roll with this group for the next 3-4 seasons.Wel see what happens with Kyrie but if he left you can obviously get a package back so I?m not worried there.

I forget the exact outlet, but I did see one national outlet list the Mavs as losers. And I'm seeing a lot of "D" letter grades.

But whatever. Fuck 'em. Anyone who actually watches the Mavs knows how desperately we needed a quality backup 5. We're quite good when Lively is on the floor, and quite terrible when he isn't. That should no longer be a problem. PJ has some concerns as well, but I don't think anyone would question that he's better than Williams. At the very least, he's way more athletic, is bigger, and can create his own shot.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-09-2024, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

The way I read it was IF things go south with Luka in a few years (it won?t) there?s very little draft capital to keep the team from turning into a bball wasteland.

Remember that we got a first just by taking on Holmes. Firsts aren't the impossible to acquire assets they used to be and depends on the draft.

We also have players that equate to firsts IMO in Green, Hardy, and Omax.

And lastly, most of our contracts are now very tradable salary-wise. That "bad" contract in Holmes turned into Gafford.

Good FOs make things happen.

If it was Luka/Irving and 0 valued talent, then I'd be more worried.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-09-2024, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Remember that we got a first just by taking on Holmes. Firsts aren't the impossible to acquire assets they used to be and depends on the draft.

We also have players that equate to firsts IMO in Green, Hardy, and Omax.

And lastly, most of our contracts are now very tradable salary-wise. That "bad" contract in Holmes turned into Gafford.

Good FOs make things happen.

If it was Luka/Irving and 0 valued talent, then I'd be more worried.

All of this. The only thing I'd hedge on is that I think FRPs tend to be more valuable in trades than even talented young players like Green or Hardy, and certainly more than someone totally unproven like Omax. Even if the odds are slim that you'd actually draft a player that turns out to be better than them, I feel like GMs just seem to value picks more, because they believe in their own ability to evaluate talent.

That being said, I totally agree that players like that are very tradeable and could easily be part of a package to land a star.

rimrocker · 02-10-2024, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

The way I read it was IF things go south with Luka in a few years (it won?t) there?s very little draft capital to keep the team from turning into a bball wasteland.

We should have young players and draft picks coming out of our ears if we ever decide to move on from Luka in his prime.
Trading him alone could put together a solid foundation for our future...or at least give us one he'll of a good start to a rebuild.

Scoobay · 02-10-2024, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I forget the exact outlet, but I did see one national outlet list the Mavs as losers. And I'm seeing a lot of "D" letter grades.

But whatever. Fuck 'em. Anyone who actually watches the Mavs knows how desperately we needed a quality backup 5. We're quite good when Lively is on the floor, and quite terrible when he isn't. That should no longer be a problem. PJ has some concerns as well, but I don't think anyone would question that he's better than Williams. At the very least, he's way more athletic, is bigger, and can create his own shot.

https://theathletic.com/5264863/2024...lysis-2023-24/
The Athletic - excerpt on the Mavs:

Which team helped itself the most during this trade-deadline cycle?

David Aldridge: Dallas. Most people don?t watch the Washington Wizards regularly, and I get that. But I do, and Daniel Gafford has been Washington?s best player this season. (I know ?best? is doing a lot of work in that sentence.)

He?s a great finisher on lobs; Luka Dončić and Kyrie Irving will love tossing it up high to him; he has very good hands. When he shoots, he doesn?t miss; he?s top 10 in the league among regular rotation players in both effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage. He attacks the offensive glass. He?s undersized, but he battles on every defensive possession.

He blocks shots, he blocks out bigger opponents, he tries to take charges ? and he talks, something he struggled with earlier in his career. He will help both Dereck Lively II and the Mavs; if Dallas stays out of the Play-In Tournament and is a top-six team in the West, Gafford would be a big help for the Mavs against OKC or the Clippers in a first-round series. I know there?s, uh, debate on our pages about the play of P.J. Washington, but having another long, lively body to surround Dončić and Irving can?t hurt.

Darnell Mayberry: I love the aggressiveness the Mavs continue to show. They have a generational talent in Dončić, who?s having an amazing season, and aren?t wasting his years waiting for player development or a so-called right time to strike. Management in Dallas is going to great lengths to build a championship contender.

They didn?t land a star at the deadline, but the Mavs fortified their frontcourt with the additions of Washington and Gafford. They?ll give Dallas needed stability at the four and five and offer Dončić immediate help with their impactful play at both ends. Washington must find his shooting touch to be a true weapon for Dončić on kickouts. Gafford will thrive working with Dončić as a lob recipient while giving Dallas more rim protection. The Mavs might now be set up to make a deep run.

Melonhead · 02-10-2024, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Remember that we got a first just by taking on Holmes. Firsts aren't the impossible to acquire assets they used to be and depends on the draft.

We also have players that equate to firsts IMO in Green, Hardy, and Omax.

And lastly, most of our contracts are now very tradable salary-wise. That "bad" contract in Holmes turned into Gafford.

Good FOs make things happen.

If it was Luka/Irving and 0 valued talent, then I'd be more worried.

Totally agreed. This is exactly what I want from the front office.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 10:00 AM

I'm just a simpleton with this. The FO finally just filled our needs. Starting PF and backup center.

They've too often signed players that make little sense or don't fit the roster. Like bringing Seth Curry back again. Glad he was able to be included to match salaries, but the signing made zero sense. I guess you can always use shooting, but I never saw a role for him.

I really hope they've finally turned the corner with what we need versus just signing player X.

If you keep filling the holes, then eventually something will sick. And you'll likely win a ring or get very close.

Simon2 · 02-10-2024, 10:26 AM

I love the trades. If Spencer Winbiggie comes back, the Mavs will have a stud back court of Luka, Kai and Spence. If THJ is on, its game over.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 10:50 AM

This is a really good and fair take...

https://theathletic.com/5261692/2024...aniel-gafford/

I've been on record saying I wouldn't give up a first for Washington. Gafford deal was a no-brainer, but Washington is more of a risk.

However, why wait? Luka is having one of the best seasons in NBA history. You have to take risks and Nico takes them. Washington, no matter his flaws, is still an upgrade over Grant Williams.

There is no "next season" and the Mavs made that clear with these deals.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 11:03 AM

Dinwiddie joining the Lakers.

That makes more sense for him as there is less clear of a role here. I also want Hardy to keep getting minutes.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2024, 11:23 AM

I want Hardy to succeed but he is more a SG than a PG. I won?t say he can never be that guy but this season he isn?t.

We had two problems:
1) defensive presence when Lively isn?t playing. Kleber helped. Gafford should be the end of that
2) what we do when we don?t have two ball handlers. Our biggest losses in +/- all happen during periods where Luka or Kyrie are resting. We?re dominant for the first 6-7 minutes and okay the last 4-6 minutes when we have both Kyrie and Luka out there but we give up huge runs when we only have one ball handler out there. Exum is perfect but may never be healthy again. Hardy can?t help that. THJ can?t help that. We still desperately need a third ball handler.

Not to be a downer but Spence would have really helped. Maybe by getting consistent defense and frontcourt scoring we won?t miss him as much as I think.

Melonhead · 02-10-2024, 11:28 AM

I wish we could get a damn update on Exum. Seems like he?s done for the year

Not surprised Spence picked LA. He?ll get more minutes there even though we could?ve used him for sure.

Simon2 · 02-10-2024, 11:32 AM

Aww. I guess Spencer?s family lives in LA. Lakers are a good fit for him. It would be hard to pass up the chance to play with Lebron too.

SMC0007 · 02-10-2024, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I want Hardy to succeed but he is more a SG than a PG. I won?t say he can never be that guy but this season he isn?t.

We had two problems:
1) defensive presence when Lively isn?t playing. Kleber helped. Gafford should be the end of that
2) what we do when we don?t have two ball handlers. Our biggest losses in +/- all happen during periods where Luka or Kyrie are resting. We?re dominant for the first 6-7 minutes and okay the last 4-6 minutes when we have both Kyrie and Luka out there but we give up huge runs when we only have one ball handler out there. Exum is perfect but may never be healthy again. Hardy can?t help that. THJ can?t help that. We still desperately need a third ball handler.

Not to be a downer but Spence would have really helped. Maybe by getting consistent defense and frontcourt scoring we won?t miss him as much as I think.

Jaden produces fine for a back up to Luka. He can handle the ball but we need him to take the next step defensively. For my taste, Dinwiddie doesnt change things enough to stifle Hardy minutes and growth. He needs more experience in important moments.
He had back to back 7 assist games but he needs to be more consistent with creating looks for others and finding guys. That said, who tf are the guys he was trying to pass to? Grant, Maxi, Dp, Djj. Not exaclty guys who are going to cinsistently make shots

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2024, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Jaden produces fine for a back up to Luka. He can handle the ball but we need him to take the next step defensively. For my taste, Dinwiddie doesnt change things enough to stifle Hardy minutes and growth. He needs more experience in important moments.
He had back to back 7 assist games but he needs to be more consistent with creating looks for others and finding guys. That said, who tf are the guys he was trying to pass to? Grant, Maxi, Dp, Djj. Not exaclty guys who are going to cinsistently make shots

He?s fine as an SG
Our system needs two PGs and Hardy is not a natural facilitator like Exum, Kyrie, and Dinwiddie

A couple of good assist games are hope for the future which is why I didn?t want to completely rule him out forever but he?s not that guy this year.

SMC0007 · 02-10-2024, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

He?s fine as an SG
Our system needs two PGs and Hardy is not a natural facilitator like Exum, Kyrie, and Dinwiddie

A couple of good assist games are hope for the future which is why I didn?t want to completely rule him out forever but he?s not that guy this year.

Fair enough, but they way we stagger Luka and Kai, Jaden isnt relied upon fully to run the offense. He can continue to be the hybrid especially when Kai is on the floor.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2024, 12:25 PM

Sounds like Spence wasn?t our main target so maybe Mavs know something I don?t about Exum or the offense with PJ

Rumors are our first call was Marcus Morris. 7pts, 3reb on 40% from three on a winning team (76ers)

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Sounds like Spence wasn?t our main target so maybe Mavs know something I don?t about Exum or the offense with PJ

Rumors are our first call was Marcus Morris. 7pts, 3reb on 40% from three on a winning team (76ers)

Yes! See, the FO finally learning.

We all love Spence for what he did, but let's fill some other blanks. Would love to have Morris as our enforcer.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 12:56 PM

I'd also be more worried about not having another pg if Green hasn't made big strides lately. And Washington is a much better handler than Grant.

And let's face it, if Kyrie and Luka are both hurt, then we have no chance anyway. So sweating over not having another pg is a bit silly.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2024, 01:08 PM

Gafford and Washington have been removed from injury report

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2024, 01:51 PM

Btw, Nico said Grant Williams was a great guy and teammate which goes against what mr stir the pot TMac has "reported."

Wish that guy covered another team. He thinks journalism is all about doing crap like that which I think is unnecessary.

Melonhead · 02-10-2024, 03:56 PM

Marc Stein reported similar they didn?t like Grants ?noisy approach to the game? in addition to being frustrated by his on court performances. Is he stirring the pot too?

Nico is just doing a little damage control because of online chatter

Thespiralgoeson · 02-10-2024, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd also be more worried about not having another pg if Green hasn't made big strides lately. And Washington is a much better handler than Grant.

And let's face it, if Kyrie and Luka are both hurt, then we have no chance anyway. So sweating over not having another pg is a bit silly.

100% agree. I would have liked to have Spencer back, but the Lakers make more sense for him. Between Washington, Green, Hardy, and Exum if and when he comes back, we have quite guys now who are capable of creating their own shots and being secondary ball handlers. I'm not saying we couldn't use a third PG, but it's not a fatal flaw like it used to be.

G-Man · 02-11-2024, 02:02 PM

Here is the problem with trade grades. They rate potential over reality. But to me, the better player in the hand is more valuable than the hoped for player who is still in tenth grade.

Prime example?Many thought Atlanta fleeced the Mavs when they got Trey and a first in exchange for Luka?a chunky, slow,no college, unproven prospect .The potential? a 10th pick who turned out to be Cam Reddish. Who?s already.been traded twice. Think any Hawks fans would trade Trey, that pick and 4 more for the Luka today?

The Mavs need a center and wing help now, versus keeping GWill another wasted season in order to save a pick 4 years from now ? I?d rather be a fifth seed now than get a future Cam Reddish in the future.

Plus, the guys we got are young assets on good contracts. They were worth the first round pick we gave to get them. They will be worth more after Luka spoon feeds them a few dozen easy lobs and open threes. Look at Dinwiddie and Dorian to see how Luka inflates a stat sheet.

dirt_dobber · 02-12-2024, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Here is the problem with trade grades. They rate potential over reality. But to me, the better player in the hand is more valuable than the hoped for player who is still in tenth grade.

Prime example?Many thought Atlanta fleeced the Mavs when they got Trey and a first in exchange for Luka?a chunky, slow,no college, unproven prospect .The potential? a 10th pick who turned out to be Cam Reddish. Who?s already.been traded twice. Think any Hawks fans would trade Trey, that pick and 4 more for the Luka today?

The Mavs need a center and wing help now, versus keeping GWill another wasted season in order to save a pick 4 years from now ? I?d rather be a fifth seed now than get a future Cam Reddish in the future.

Plus, the guys we got are young assets on good contracts. They were worth the first round pick we gave to get them. They will be worth more after Luka spoon feeds them a few dozen easy lobs and open threes. Look at Dinwiddie and Dorian to see how Luka inflates a stat sheet.

Bravo sir!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-12-2024, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Here is the problem with trade grades. They rate potential over reality. But to me, the better player in the hand is more valuable than the hoped for player who is still in tenth grade.

Prime example?Many thought Atlanta fleeced the Mavs when they got Trey and a first in exchange for Luka?a chunky, slow,no college, unproven prospect .The potential? a 10th pick who turned out to be Cam Reddish. Who?s already.been traded twice. Think any Hawks fans would trade Trey, that pick and 4 more for the Luka today?

The Mavs need a center and wing help now, versus keeping GWill another wasted season in order to save a pick 4 years from now ? I?d rather be a fifth seed now than get a future Cam Reddish in the future.

Plus, the guys we got are young assets on good contracts. They were worth the first round pick we gave to get them. They will be worth more after Luka spoon feeds them a few dozen easy lobs and open threes. Look at Dinwiddie and Dorian to see how Luka inflates a stat sheet.

The flip side is our 10th pick in 2023 turned about to be Dereck Lively. Otherwise, I mostly agree.

EricaLubarsky · 02-12-2024, 05:19 PM

https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/202...ngton-thunder/

Best Mavs writer in the business (sorry not sorry, Tmac) with a good write up on our TDL

Zeus · 02-13-2024, 07:04 PM

Fuck the national narrative. I have been historically pessimistic on this franchise but F'n Nico has basically turned over the roster and age aligned with Luka in a matter of 2 years. This team with a tweak or two in the next few years will compete for a championship. You can't look at the current roster going into the post all star period as anything but promising with a lot of young athletic age appropriate support for Luka's super powers. Fuck off Simmons, ESPN, Stephen A Smith et al

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2024, 07:12 PM

It's not just the media though. Dinwiddie and Kuzma talking shit is just plain bizarre.

Kuzma talking shit on us like we're some peasant team that has no shot. Like dude, if you had come in the Gafford trade, we'd sure as hell be contenders.

Who thought we were going to the WCF in 2022? Guess Dinwiddie forgot about that.

SMC0007 · 02-13-2024, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's not just the media though. Dinwiddie and Kuzma talking shit is just plain bizarre.

Kuzma talking shit on us like we're some peasant team that has no shot. Like dude, if you had come in the Gafford trade, we'd sure as hell be contenders.

Who thought we were going to the WCF in 2022? Guess Dinwiddie forgot about that.

What did Kuzma and SD say?

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2024, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

What did Kuzma and SD say?

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1757146789285945701

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/s...51408100532271

SMC0007 · 02-13-2024, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

https://twitter.com/mcten/status/1757146789285945701

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/s...51408100532271

Thanks, I ended up finding these. Along with Grants comments.

Dinwiddie made a weird analogy. I cant exactly tell if hes saying that essentially losing is ok here? Or, LA is the bigger challenge for him? Im glad im on record as saying I didnt want him taking mins from Hardy.

These players dont have filters sometimes and Luka wont forget it.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-13-2024, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Thanks, I ended up finding these. Along with Grants comments.

Dinwiddie made a weird analogy. I cant exactly tell if hes saying that essentially losing is ok here? Or, LA is the bigger challenge for him? Im glad im on record as saying I didnt want him taking mins from Hardy.

These players dont have filters sometimes and Luka wont forget it.

Well someone pointed out that Kuzma woulda cost 2 firsts which likely means no Gafford.

In no universe am I picking Kuzma over Gafford. I know the FO wanted that 4, but we needed exactly what Gafford brings.

Melonhead · 02-14-2024, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

It's not just the media though. Dinwiddie and Kuzma talking shit is just plain bizarre.

Kuzma talking shit on us like we're some peasant team that has no shot. Like dude, if you had come in the Gafford trade, we'd sure as hell be contenders.

Who thought we were going to the WCF in 2022? Guess Dinwiddie forgot about that.

It was weird the way the media latched onto that. Kuzma talking about Im trying for championships not just a playoff spot (as a shot to mavs)

Buddy you have 9 wins, you just like the idea of being a #1 for a franchise and get all the shots. He can pretend he's building something but what a joke.

Dinwiddie just likes to sound smart but comes off dumb as hell.

EricaLubarsky · 02-14-2024, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It was weird the way the media latched onto that. Kuzma talking about Im trying for championships not just a playoff spot (as a shot to mavs)

Buddy you have 9 wins, you just like the idea of being a #1 for a franchise and get all the shots. He can pretend he's building something but what a joke.

Dinwiddie just likes to sound smart but comes off dumb as hell.

Reading his comments (so maybe I missed inflection), it sounds like he was trying to be a loyal/hero like Dirk.

"do you want to leave? Naw, I'll be loyal and stay for the rebuild"

It's just Wind-worst that is making it sound like he said he hated Luka and didn't want to be here.

saclare · 02-14-2024, 02:39 PM

Yea my take is that the media is running this dumbass narrative along with the "players don't wanna play with Luka and/or Kyrie"

In any event, super happy with how the trade deadline played out. Can't wait for this squad to simply shit on all of these lazy ass soundbite opinions.

I was on record in wanting Kuzma, but not at the expense of Gafford and an additional first. Washington fits more of what we need in athleticism, and I think he will prove to be the better defender. Kuzma is only a shade better offensively IMO and he also carries an ego whereas PJ doesn't. Kuzma honestly sounds like he's fine cashing checks and getting shots up. Fuck out of here trying to honestly say you think you can build something in Washington LOLLLLLL

In short, fuck Dinwiddie and Kuzma if that's truly their take.

saclare · 02-14-2024, 02:41 PM

Seriously, did y'all catch the Windhorst pivot yesterday? Literally at the start of a LAKERS segment he goes off on a tangent about how Mavs fans should be worried. He's such a hack that we would have been blessed to never have had to listen to if it weren't for coat-tail riding Lebron in his early career. The man should talk about Lebron and nothing else, since anything else comes out as utter bullshit.

SMC0007 · 02-14-2024, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Seriously, did y'all catch the Windhorst pivot yesterday? Literally at the start of a LAKERS segment he goes off on a tangent about how Mavs fans should be worried. He's such a hack that we would have been blessed to never have had to listen to if it weren't for coat-tail riding Lebron in his early career. The man should talk about Lebron and nothing else, since anything else comes out as utter bullshit.

Nope. Didnt listen. That type of stuff is geared for twitter mav casuals

saclare · 02-14-2024, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Nope. Didnt listen. That type of stuff is geared for twitter mav casuals

Ha interestingly enough, Twitter is where I did see it. However, don't knock the X, some of our best and brightest are on there spitting fantastic Mavs content. Just have to weed through all the BS...

SMC0007 · 02-14-2024, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Ha interestingly enough, Twitter is where I did see it. However, don't knock the X, some of our best and brightest are on there spitting fantastic Mavs content. Just have to weed through all the BS...

True that. I enjoy x, but like you say, you have to weed out the Bs