What's spinning in your DVD PLAYER? eh? eh? General Movie Discussion - Page 60 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

GermanDunk · 07-29-2010, 06:17 PM

Nolan is the Memento guy - i´m looking forward to Inception !

fluid.forty.one · 07-29-2010, 11:18 PM

*****SPOILERS*****

OKAY got it figured out.

Cobb and the girl enter Limbo. Saito dies and enters limbo after them. While the 'sign for the kick' is going off, the girl kicks Fisher off who gets defibrillated back to life. The girl kills herself to get out of limbo. That leaves Cobb and Saito in limbo at the same time, with Cobb entering first. This is where I got confused. I didn't understand why Cobb, who entered limbo before Saito, would be younger than Saito.. and why he rewashed back up shore all confused. Here's what I missed:

While Cobb is still in limbo with his wife (after Fisher and the girl left limbo) the van crashes in the water. Cobb doesn't receive the kick in dream 3 or 2 obviously so he stays passed out. While they are in the water remember how Arthur and the girl are taking turns from the oxygen machine, and then they swim back up? They leave Cobb down there. That's the key. At this point, Cobb dies (drowns) in that dream (dream 1) and is sent back into limbo. I'm assuming that between the time (dream 1 time frame) of the van hitting the water and the time that unconscious Cobb drowns in the car and gets reset back into limbo, DECADES have passed in limbo time. That explains why Cobb's brain is so scrambled and it explains why Saito is so much older.

Nolan is a genius.

Flacolaco · 07-29-2010, 11:26 PM

Thanks fluid...That makes sense to me.

Did you take any note of the whole wedding ring situation the second time through? If I should ever find time to see it again, I need to pay attention to that because I never noticed a damned thing. Apparently the wedding ring appears often in the dreams but not in the final scene?

MavsX · 07-30-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

*****SPOILERS*****

OKAY got it figured out.

Cobb and the girl enter Limbo. Saito dies and enters limbo after them. While the 'sign for the kick' is going off, the girl kicks Fisher off who gets defibrillated back to life. The girl kills herself to get out of limbo. That leaves Cobb and Saito in limbo at the same time, with Cobb entering first. This is where I got confused. I didn't understand why Cobb, who entered limbo before Saito, would be younger than Saito.. and why he rewashed back up shore all confused. Here's what I missed:

While Cobb is still in limbo with his wife (after Fisher and the girl left limbo) the van crashes in the water. Cobb doesn't receive the kick in dream 3 or 2 obviously so he stays passed out. While they are in the water remember how Arthur and the girl are taking turns from the oxygen machine, and then they swim back up? They leave Cobb down there. That's the key. At this point, Cobb dies (drowns) in that dream (dream 1) and is sent back into limbo. I'm assuming that between the time (dream 1 time frame) of the van hitting the water and the time that unconscious Cobb drowns in the car and gets reset back into limbo, DECADES have passed in limbo time. That explains why Cobb's brain is so scrambled and it explains why Saito is so much older.

Nolan is a genius.

in the words of Neo...."Woah"

Underdog · 08-03-2010, 10:45 AM

Oregon Trail: The Movie (official trailer)

Rick41 · 08-03-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Oregon Trail: The Movie (official trailer)

Hahaha, nice.

CadBane · 08-03-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Thanks fluid...That makes sense to me.

Did you take any note of the whole wedding ring situation the second time through? If I should ever find time to see it again, I need to pay attention to that because I never noticed a damned thing. Apparently the wedding ring appears often in the dreams but not in the final scene?

That is correct. Also, I read an interview with the costume designer, he says the kids' clothes at the end are in fact different. Coupled with an older set of kids being used, I don't see how anyone can refute that the tome is about to fall.

Underdog · 08-03-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That is correct. Also, I read an interview with the costume designer, he says the kids' clothes at the end are in fact different. Coupled with an older set of kids being used, I don't see how anyone can refute that the tome is about to fall.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Does it matter if the top falls?

It was Mal's totem, not Dom's - whatever rules attached to it do not apply...

fluid.forty.one · 08-03-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Does it matter if the top falls?

It was Mal's totem, not Dom's - whatever rules attached to it do not apply...

The reason people aren't suppose to know the weight or whatever is so they can't use it against you, but she can't since she is dead.

Underdog · 08-03-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

The reason people aren't suppose to know the weight or whatever is so they can't use it against you, but she can't since she is dead.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Is she?

What if she escaped Limbo when she jumped to her "death" and Cobb remained stuck there?

What if the entire movie was Cobb's projection?

fluid.forty.one · 08-03-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Is she?

What if she escaped Limbo when she jumped to her "death" and Cobb remained stuck there?

What if the entire movie was Cobb's projection?

That's really reaching. lol

Underdog · 08-03-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

That's really reaching. lol

Not really - think harder, my friend...

From IMDb's official FAQ (prepare to have your lid flipped):

Quote:

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Was the end a dream or reality?

Although no one can prove it one way or another, unless that person is Chris Nolan, it is hard to say. Both theories are possible.

Evidence to Reality:

If we accept that the entire movie is not a dream, and that Cobb did in fact escape his limbo with Mal, then it is reasonable to believe he also escaped his limbo with Saito. Also, there are simple explanations as to why when he sees his kids again they look much like they did in his dream. For example, he never saw his kids faces so we cannot easily tell if they had aged much from his memory. In addition, the movie never defines the amount of time that has passed since Mal had died and Cobb was banned from the U.S. So the memory of his kids may only be a few months old, therefore it is very possible his kids look pretty much the same in the memories and in the present. In addition, the visual duration of the top spinning is never a trustworthy totem at all, since it is a property of the totem others can observe and recreate. If the top is to be trustworthy at all, it is Cobb's knowledge of how it feels to spin it that convinces him he is awake, not the duration of the spinning, which we can presume will end eventually in the final scene. Visually, there is an obvious difference between the wobbly spinning in the end-scene and the absolutely perfect spin in the safe during limbo, again implying the possibility that the final spin could be natural (though only the feel in Cobb's fingers would know for sure). It is alleged that at the end of the film Cobb's children are wearing different, albeit similar clothing compared to the clothes they wear in Cobb's subconscious. In the opening scene dream, you get a glimpse of Cobb's hand. He's wearing his wedding ring. Now, if you follow the rest of the movie keeping an eye out for this you will notice that he only has the ring on when he's allegedly in a dream. At the end of the movie he isn't wearing the ring. If the ring only appears when he's in a dream and he's not wearing at the end of the film, that could be confirmation that in fact he woke up.

Evidence to Dream:

It is possible that the entire movie is a dream, and that Cobb never left his own limbo. The children appear the same age as in a previous memory, and in fact, appear to have the same motions and same clothes in the yard before turning around. It suggests to the viewer that this is exactly the same as his memory, and thus he could be still dreaming. How long the top spins is not a good totem, except in that it spinning forever is only possible in the dream world. A short-duration spin is a visual property that someone could easily recreate in a dream. If we trust the spinning top, it must be the exact feel in Cobb's fingers as he spins it that convinces him it is genuine. However, Cobb admits that the totem was originally Mal's totem, suggesting that he adopted it as his totem during limbo, making it impossible for him to know the true feel. In addition, a totem can not prove that you've woken up from your own dream, since you know it's true 'feel' and thus your subconscious can recreate it properly.

"Both theories are true" theory:

Movie has two main themes: the first one is that the line between dreams and reality can be imperceptible from the perspective of an individual; the second that an idea can be a parasite which, once incepted, can take over one's psyche. The ending simply reflects the fact that the idea that killed Mal has now taken over Cobb; he cannot discern whether he is now living in a dream or a reality, and we, the audience, witness that intimately. The gyro in the end falters, but we do not see whether it stops or not. Have we witnessed it stop, the movie would be essentially telling us "fear not, this is real and a happy end". Had the shot ended with it spinning, the movie would affirm the other theory. However, the shot as-is wants to ensure us that we do not know and we cannot know, because Cobb doesn't know anymore. The lack of definite answer IS the answer; for the rest of his life Cobb will wonder whether everything around him is real, and the audience is deliberately left with that same question hanging in their heads.

Notice that when Cobb is in his "Memory bank" with Ariadne, Cobb is looking out the window at his kids, he tells Ariadne that his greatest regret is not being able to alter this moment and see his children's beautiful faces again. That would imply that was Cobb's inception to himself. He finally did what he could never do before and altered the moment in which he saw his children and he sees their faces. Also, why was Miles there? He was living in France yet was waiting at the airport in the States (reason why MIles was there: When Cobb visitied Miles it was to give him a gift for his children. i.e. Miles was traveling to see Cobb's children in the near future). Even more confusing, Miles' wife, Mal's mother was taking care of Cobb's children in America yet we never see her at the house at the end. The inception itself could be altering his biggest regrets which spreads to every aspect of his life he winds up needing to alter.

Or Mal was right the whole time and he was actually still down one dream level and Mal is alive in reality and Cobb wasn't waking up.

The Spiritual / Metaphysical explanation: From a spiritual perspective there is a different reading again. This movie is one with a profound spiritual idea at its heart, for those interested - just as with 'The Matrix', and Guy Ritchie's 'Revolver'. In 'Inception', Nolan seems to be using the metaphysics given in 'A Course In Miracles', a seminal spiritual text from the 1970s that was purportedly channelled from Jesus and which continues to profoundly influence modern spiritual thinking. In ACIM the key idea is that what we think of as reality is in fact a dream - that there is no difference between the dreams we see at night, and what we see with our eyes open. Both are projections of our mind, which is trying to escape a core guilt by projecting guilt outside of itself onto projected 'dream figures'. (For more on this see the FAQ titled 'If the spinning top really did keep spinning at the end...'). Thus, although Cobb returned to 'reality', Nolan seems to be making the point that what we think of as 'reality' is still a dream. And, that within that dream, we see what we want to see - projection makes perception. Thus, the movie is devised so that some viewers look at the spinning top and see it as being about to fall over as the movie ends. They decide that the movie is saying that Cobb is back in 'reality' and not dreaming. Others see the top as going to continue spinning indefinitely. But, one then inevitably asks, how could Cobb be still in a dream? Which leads us to think hard, to debate, to share ideas, and perhaps eventually to question the unquestionable - that 'reality' is not what it seems to be. Nolan is cleverly sowing a key idea in our consciousness. So you could say the movie Inception is in itself... an inception! Within this interpretative framework, Nolan is reaching to us within the 'dream' that we call reality to help us to start to challenge our assumptions about 'reality' and begin to wake up - just as Cobb went into limbo to get Saito.

Yet for an inception to work, one must accept it as one's own thought process... so of course Nolan does not give interviews where he says, 'This is a movie where I'm trying to wake people up to the fact that they're dreaming'.

Clever stuff indeed!

CadBane · 08-03-2010, 10:28 PM

You do realize IMDb's "Official FAQ" is fan created, right?

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-03-2010, 10:28 PM

Weird stuff UD. I like it

Sh*t, if you all like Inception, then I hope everyone has seen Dark City. That came out before the Matrix and was a tad more original since it was the first of the big budget sci fi "dream" type movies. Alex Proyas is a very underrated director IMO.

CadBane · 08-03-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Does it matter if the top falls?

It was Mal's totem, not Dom's - whatever rules attached to it do not apply...

Yes, because when they were in limbo together when he spun it, it kept spinning.

CadBane · 08-03-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Weird stuff UD. I like it

Sh*t, if you all like Inception, then I hope everyone has seen Dark City. That came out before the Matrix and was a tad more original since it was the first of the big budget sci fi "dream" type movies. Alex Proyas is a very underrated director IMO.

Proyas is overrated IMO. Dark City was good, but The Crow was highly overrated, and Knowing was terrible.

Underdog · 08-04-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You do realize IMDb's "Official FAQ" is fan created, right?

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Yep. Doesn't make it any less relevant.

The thing about Inception is that Chris Nolan gives you enough information to "prove" about half a dozen theories as to what the movie was about, but he doesn't give you quite enough info to disprove any of them.

He left it up to the viewer to believe whatever they WANT to believe, no different than Cobb... That's the brilliance of Inception.

(he used a similar gimmick in Memento too - letting the viewer decide whether or not Joe Pantoliano's character was really John G, or if our main character was just a psychopathic murderer who was completely unaware of his own nature...)

CadBane · 08-04-2010, 03:29 PM

I agree it's open to interpretation, but I think there is still a distinct ending that he is stressing is the actual one if you pay close enough attention. I love Nolan. He's 7 for 7 so far.

Underdog · 08-04-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

I agree it's open to interpretation, but I think there is still a distinct ending that he is stressing is the actual one if you pay close enough attention.

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

If that's what you believe, then that's your truth - it certainly doesn't contradict what I'm saying.

rmacomic · 08-04-2010, 10:34 PM

I watched a film today, it's called "The Human Centipede." I now no longer believe there is any hope for mankind.

ShaggyDirk · 08-04-2010, 10:42 PM

Just completed Season 1 of Rome.... Solid.. Very very solid.

Big Boy Laroux · 08-04-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I watched a film today, it's called "The Human Centipede." I now no longer believe there is any hope for mankind.

I haven't seen it, but know enough about it to know i don't WANT to see it. What in the hell possessed you to watch that?

rmacomic · 08-04-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

I haven't seen it, but know enough about it to know i don't WANT to see it. What in the hell possessed you to watch that?

Been on a bad horror movie kick lately. Saw some fun flicks like Hatchet and Rouge, but also some terrible ones like The Poughkeepsie Tapes and Human Centipede.

Usually Lurkin · 08-05-2010, 08:17 AM

Just watched Inception - walked away with something similar to UD's explanation. I watched Shutter Island not too long ago. So I'm going with the "DiCaprio's character killed his wife and the whole movie is a psychological defense mechanism" explanation. 'Cause that's how Inception works.

Underdog · 08-05-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I watched a film today, it's called "The Human Centipede." I now no longer believe there is any hope for mankind.

Say 7 Hail Mary's, 3 Our Father's and give half your net income to starving children and you MIGHT not go to hell...

rmacomic · 08-05-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Say 7 Hail Mary's, 3 Our Father's and give half your net income to starving children and you MIGHT not go to hell...

If I am taking advice on salvation from you, then I am pretty much doomed to hell anyway. Doooooooomed.

Also, still haven't had a chance to go see Inception. I wonder if it is worth the hype, maybe you guys could discuss the finer plot points some more and give away any surprises so I don't come away with any opinion of my own. Also could you include the word "spoiler" in the text of your first post, then never again, so when I read halfway through your post about some guy named "Mal" or "Hobb" I realize I just ruined another twist to a movie I will probably never see now. Thanks.

Wow, I am grumpy today.

Underdog · 08-05-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

If I am taking advice on salvation from you, then I am pretty much doomed to hell anyway. Doooooooomed.

Also, still haven't had a chance to go see Inception. I wonder if it is worth the hype, maybe you guys could discuss the finer plot points some more and give away any surprises so I don't come away with any opinion of my own. Also could you include the word "spoiler" in the text of your first post, then never again, so when I read halfway through your post about some guy named "Mal" or "Hobb" I realize I just ruined another twist to a movie I will probably never see now. Thanks.

Wow, I am grumpy today.

Sorry, I was using spoiler tags, but gave up when nobody else used them (I'm such a conformist!)

Go into Inception expecting something on par with (but not as visually revolutionary as) The Matrix and you should come out happy... Honestly, I wasn't blown away when the movie ended, but the more I thought about it, the more it consumed my consciousness (like any good art...)

This isn't a twist movie so much as a multi-layered mental workout - it's more "there is no spoon" than "Kevin Spacey is really Keyser Söze"...

EDIT: just added spoiler tags to all my Inception posts in a vain attempt to come across as less of a dick...

rmacomic · 08-05-2010, 02:20 PM

Ahhh... Spoiler Tags are for wimps anyway.

Dumbledore Dies, Vader is Luke's father, Andy gives away the toys, Bruce Willis is a ghost, Arron was Roy, The man on the floor is Jigsaw, The narrator and Tyler Durden are the same person, The mother is Norman Bates in drag, The Planet of the Apes is Earth, The chick in The Crying Game has a weinis, There are two killers in Scream, Soylent Green is people, "She's my sister" *slap* "She's my daughter", Rosebud was his sled, Oldboy is banging his own daughter, Guy Peirce was tricked by his wife and there is no John G, Jacob died in Vietnam, Nikolai plays both the FBI and the Russians to become the new Mob Boss, Jake Gyllenhaal doesn't win the Oscar for playing a gay cowboy bottom, and Crash was overrated.

ribosoma · 08-06-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

***INCEPTION SPOILER***

Is she?

What if she escaped Limbo when she jumped to her "death" and Cobb remained stuck there?

What if the entire movie was Cobb's projection?

That was what I took from it. The architect gets to constantly bend the rules, but is also the one who attracts his own demons. Each layer seemed to become more symbolic of the alchemical concept of Solve et Coagula, or "Separate and Join Together." You can see Hermetic and Alchemical symbolism throughout Nolan's works, especially the theme of transmutation. One must die to the old to be reborn to the new. Cobb wasn't ready to let his old thoughts and ideas die, so he lived in a pseudo-reality inside of his own mind, full of enough complexities to almost convince him it was real, but loaded with archetypal confrontations mirroring his delusion.

That said, Inception can be enjoyed by those who have no clue about alchemy or Jungian psychology, as just a popcorn flick, but it will entice you to go one layer deeper, which is why it will frustrate those who seek a nice little packaged ending. Nolan, like any great artist, doesn't give a damn about what you want, he is interested in what his audience needs. That's art, in my opinion. Anything less is just advertising.

Big Boy Laroux · 08-06-2010, 10:00 AM

one week to scott pilgrim! i have been hearing GREAT word of mouth from people that have gone to advance screenings.

CadBane · 08-06-2010, 05:30 PM

Saw "The Kids Are All Right", it was great. I don't like Mark Ruffalo, but he was fantastic.

rmacomic · 08-10-2010, 11:17 AM

My wife and I think Inception just might be the "Perfect Film." Deep, yet can be followed by anyone who pays attention. Original, yet palatable to everyone (we all dream). And by adding the human flaws and emotional investments of both the "Hero" Cobb, and "Villain" Fisher, you want the "Heist" to succeed for betterment of both the "Hero" and "Villain." Can you think of any other "Heist" movie where success rewards both protagonist and antagonist? I usually look for reasons to dislike a movie with as much hype as this one, but for the life of me can't come up with anything.

GermanDunk · 08-10-2010, 01:44 PM

I watched Brokeback Mountain yesterday. Quite confusing.

I think i stick to John Wayne.

Big Boy Laroux · 08-12-2010, 03:07 PM

So i have a question for all of you that have seen inception.

Did any of you see it in an IMAX theater (real, huge-screen IMAX)? If so, would you say it was worth it? No spoilers, please. Planning to finally see it this weekend, and debating as to whether to go see in IMAX.

Underdog · 08-12-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

So i have a question for all of you that have seen inception.

Did any of you see it in an IMAX theater (real, huge-screen IMAX)? If so, would you say it was worth it? No spoilers, please. Planning to finally see it this weekend, and debating as to whether to go see in IMAX.

I saw it on IMAX - definitely not worth the extra cost or hassle.

It wasn't filmed with IMAX cameras like the scenes in the Dark Knight, plus the special effects hold up on their own on a regular screen...

Nash13 · 08-14-2010, 01:13 AM

where i'm from, it's only an extra $2 to see it in IMAX, so i thought it was a good idea.

Nash13 · 08-14-2010, 01:18 AM

THE EXPENDABLES!!! If you like any movie sylvester stallone has ever done, you'll like this. I got to see stone cold and randy couture fight. Everybody did a pretty good job. Not the best script, just a fun time.

Big Boy Laroux · 08-14-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash13

where i'm from, it's only an extra $2 to see it in IMAX, so i thought it was a good idea.

that sounds like "Fake IMAX" (google it) as opposed to the real big-screen IMAX. Most cases, IMAX tickets are a good $8-10 more.

Underdog · 08-14-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

that sounds like "Fake IMAX" (google it) as opposed to the real big-screen IMAX. Most cases, IMAX tickets are a good $8-10 more.

a.k.a. "LIEMAX"

Big Boy Laroux · 08-14-2010, 06:45 PM

exactly.