GDT Game 41 - Mavs (13-27) vs Knicks (18-21) 6:00 FSSW

[Underdog]

Mavs retire Harp's jersey, Dennis vs Frank -- can the Mavs out-tank the Knicks?

[EricaLubarsky]

Halfway there.

I’m afraid we’ll win

[j0Shi]

Don't worry, we're favorites in Vegas. Which probably means we'll lose.

[CGM]

Dirk Nowitzki, the Real Deal versus Kristaps Porzingis, Dirk's Doppelganger...
The Jr.'s #9 versus Ntilikina's #8...
The original and the underdog win!

Mavs - 109
New Yotters - 98

[SMC0007]

This is not a moral or rival victory situation. Must lose.

[Underdog]

@NBAHistory: Derek Harper #12 @dallasmavs Jersey Retirement (Halftime @nyknicks @dallasmavs 7:00 pm/et NBA League Pass) If you never saw Derek Harper play, these highlights will give you a good idea of his impact as delivers twice in the clutch in Game 4 of the '88 WCF vs. the @Lakers.
https://twitter.com/NBAHistory/statu...24902320713729

@SkinWade: Harp just saw Coach Motta, almost fell out, long hug....almost a tear...actually, yes, a tear - but played it real cool

@DanaLarsonFSN: What an awesome scene at the AAC! #DerekHarperNight #12 #Mavs

[Underdog]

Appreciating the Legacy of Derek Harper
https://thesmokingcuban.com/2018/01/...-derek-harper/

@IsaacHarrisNBA: Derek Harper in Dallas
4th in points
1st in assists
4th in field goals
5th in three point field goals
1st in steals
3rd in games played
3rd in minutes

[sefant77]

Beasley out too...damn we are going to win. No one on the Knicks able to create and score except KP

[EricaLubarsky]

May be the first season that having refs hate us actually helps us out

[EricaLubarsky]

/crickets

[EricaLubarsky]

Eventually Porz and Kanter will miss and that team has nothing. Mavs have enough weapons to overcome and win

Still, this team is terrible. We went almost four minutes without scoring and can’t really do anything that well. It’ll make me sad if such a flawed team wins this one

[Underdog]

Sounds like Harp is already over Harp for one night...

[Underdog]

Dirk just tossed KP on his ass.

[EricaLubarsky]

73% - 37% and Knicks only up 8.

Sad

[EricaLubarsky]

Dirks defense is playing tank commander

Also Smith making some terrible defensive decisions with no one to help on weak side

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Dirks defense is playing tank commander

Maybe Dirk wants to play a season with Ayton before he retires?

[Underdog]

#12 going up into the rafters. #MFFL

[tap2390]

Forget the politically correct nonsense, there is no comparison between DSJ and Frank Ntlikina.

[Underdog]

Lee grabs Barnes, refs pretend it was a strip... Okay.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Forget the politically correct nonsense, there is no comparison between DSJ and Frank Ntlikina.

Agreed.

[EricaLubarsky]

Please don’t win on last minute heroics unless it’s all Smith

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Please don’t win on last minute heroics unless it’s all Smith

Mavs in the bonus for the rest of the game...

[Underdog]

Devin for the tie.

[EricaLubarsky]

Ugh

[EricaLubarsky]

Muahahaha stinker

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Please don’t win on last minute heroics unless it’s all Smith

Rick played Barea over DSJ for the tank... Sorry, Harp.

[EricaLubarsky]

13-28 halfway through

We’re a .317 team

[rmacomic]

I'm all for getting a great player in the draft, but the way the refs have been helping the tank lately is leaving me pretty fucking salty.

I don't care if it helps us in the draft, disrespect is disrespect. Fuck the NBA refs.

[mac222b]

Im about done with Rick. Why isn’t DSJ in in a close game? All vets. We almost won and for what? If we win with Dennis in and as a part of it, great. Otherwise it’s potentially killing our lottery chances AND not giving DSJ close game experience. It’s just another form of stubbornness or near-sightedness, like Thibodeau insisting on playing guys 40+

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I'm all for getting a great player in the draft, but the way the refs have been helping the tank lately is leaving me pretty fucking salty.

I don't care if it helps us in the draft, disrespect is disrespect. Fuck the NBA refs.

I thought the Knicks got jobbed down the stretch

[mac222b]

Thank goodness we managed to lose that

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

I'm all for getting a great player in the draft, but the way the refs have been helping the tank lately is leaving me pretty fucking salty.

I don't care if it helps us in the draft, disrespect is disrespect. Fuck the NBA refs.

Money well-spent, Cubes!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Reffing is bad all around though, and that's why I'm glad Cuban tries to do something about it. The league will never be healthy until the Refs are held accountable because it ruins the game.

[j0Shi]

Soooooo much the Mavs to cough up games against the Bulls and Knicks when you win four vs. playoff teams before

Otter is proud!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Soooooo much the Mavs to cough up games against the Bulls and Knicks when you win four vs. playoff teams before

Otter is proud!

Suns and Lakers won today too...

[Underdog]

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Forget the politically correct nonsense, there is no comparison between DSJ and Frank Ntlikina.

Really? Not sure this is the game you'd want to make that kind of pronounecment. Comparable production:

Ntilikina: 25 minutes off the bench | 7pts (on 8FGA)| 7reb | 5ast | 1stl | 2blk

Smith: 24 minutes as a starter | 11pts (on 14FGA) | 3reb | 5ast | 2 stl

Neither of them on the floor at winning time

Depends on what kind of PG you want and who you're playing him with. They have different games. I would prefer the type of player Ntilikina is, a facilitator PG with size/length and quickness to defend different positions. Pretty confident NYKs are okay with their choice.

Ntilikina reminds me of a very young Dennis Johnson-type player; Smith more of an enhanced Darren Collison (+hops). They should both improve; hope they can both avoid injury.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Really? Not sure this is the game you'd want to make that kind of pronounecment. Comparable production:

Ntilikina: 25 minutes off the bench | 7pts (on 8FGA)| 7reb | 5ast | 1stl | 2blk

Smith: 24 minutes as a starter | 11pts (on 14FGA) | 3reb | 5ast | 2 stl

Neither of them on the floor at winning time

Depends on what kind of PG you want and who you're playing him with. They have different games. I would prefer the type of player Ntilikina is, a facilitator PG with size/length and quickness to defend different positions. Pretty confident NYKs are okay with their choice.

Ntilikina reminds me of a very young Dennis Johnson-type player; Smith more of an enhanced Darren Collison (+hops). They should both improve; hope they can both avoid injury.

Honest question, did you watch the game?

What I saw was two guys with very different mentalities. Frank was playing off the ball quite a bit and was complacent with it in his hands. You called him a facilitator and I didn't see that at all. Granted, the Knicks run their offense through Porzingis, but I think DSJ takes way more initiative with the ball and has a much higher upside on offense. More than enough to make up for the fact that Frank will likely be the better defender.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Maybe as time goes on Frank will be relied upon to do more but as of now he's not relied upon to do anything but be a good defender and basically just be a role player. In 37 games played he has only had 10+ FGA's 7 times and never shot more than 11 times in a game despite playing 30mins. The offense does not run through him, as tap said he's off ball a whole lot for a "pg". DSJ on the other hand in 32 games has had only 7 where he did not have 10+fga's and has had a handful of games of 20+. And many times he's tasked with creating his own shot. NBA stats has Frank only having 0.4 possessions a game where he is in isolation, and he shoots 28% and has a 12% TO rate, and qualifies as being in the bottom 9% in all of the NBA. DSJ on the other hand has over 3 possessions a game in isolation, shoots better and takes care of the ball better and is a hair under 40%. While that's not good either it's vastly better than Frank who basically has no clue what to do when it's all on him and it's almost never asked of him to do that.

Frank will prolly be a solid starter just on his defensive ability alone. But until I see him create for himself and run an offense there is no way I'm comparing him to DSJ. Frank's usage rate is a hair above Wesley Matthews, DSJ is ahead of John Wall and Kemba Walker and a hair below Lillard and Curry. So one is tasked with running an offense and being a scoring threat, essentially being the alpha on the team and has responsibilities similar to the top pg's in the game. The other is in the 3rd option category right now and asked to do nothing but be a fundamental role player. More to the point would be when the Mavs prepared for the Knicks how much time if any did they spend detailing how they would stop Frank? And how much time did the Knicks spend detailing how to slow down or limit DSJ's impact on our offense? I just don't see a comparison at all right now.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Honest question, did you watch the game

Yes.

What I saw was two guys with very different mentalities. Frank was playing off the ball quite a bit and was complacent with it in his hands. You called him a facilitator and I didn't see that at all. Granted, the Knicks run their offense through Porzingis, but I think DSJ takes way more initiative with the ball and has a much higher upside on offense. More than enough to make up for the fact that Frank will likely be the better defender.

Agreed. Two different players, different styles of play, different mentalities, being asked to do different things.

And maybe we're looking at two different questions as opposed to "politicallly correct nonsense" (whatever that means?). I keep reading allusions to how Jackson, on his way out the door, screwed the pooch (and the NYKs) by selecting Ntilikina (far more egregious were the Noah and Rose signings); as if Mavericks fans have to convince themselves that Dallas somehow won 'something', without taking into account different circumstances and different needs. Maybe Mavs fans should be second-guessing the selection of Smith v. Donavan Mitchell?

The question for the NYKs was and is which one (Ntilikina or Smith) pairs better with Porzingis. I wouldn't want a ball-dominating, shoot/score-first PG who's trying to establish himself detracting from The Unicorn's development, competing with him for shots, competing with him to be the focal point of the offense. (It would be sort of like pairing Antoine Walker in a failed point-forward experiment with Prime Dirk; or wasting the last years of Dirk's prime by pairing him with Montae Ellis?)

Smith is doing what the Mavericks need for him to right now: sell excitement and put butts in seats, without winning too much. He can assert himself on offense, be as aggressive as he can, try to dunk every time he goes to the hole, and take as many bad shots as Carlisle can't stand to watch. They can run that lob for him every game until he can't jump anymore. (Question: Is Smith on some kind of DL minutes-restriction, or was Carlisle sending him a message by having him on the bench over the last 3-4 minutes of the game?)

Ntilikina, similarly, is doing what the NYKs need for him to: defer to Porzingis, facilitate, play under control, don't eff up, develop the 3-ball, defend, and blend in.

Smith is well-suited to do what the Mavericks are asking him to; not sure his mentality would serve the NYKs as well.

So the question isn't which one is the better player (though personally I prefer where I think Ntilikina's overall game will end up); the question is which one pairs better with Porzingis, in the longer term.

Alternate question: Who would you prefer to build a team around as a Number 1 option: Smith or Porzingis? If your answer is Smith, good luck and godspeed. If it's Porzingis, then draft players who complement him without competing for primacy. In my estimation, Ntilikina fills that role better than Smith.