The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If you're right, than half the article doesn't make sense. If it's that obvious, why the writer says this ---> "A source close to the negotiations says Howard's representatives warned the Lakers that Howard would opt out of his contract and test the free-agent market next summer -- which has the Lakers' brass understandably nervous."

Don't get it, i thought he can be sign&traded with the new contract already signed.

I like the phrase "test the free agent market" as if every team with space won't throw the max at him.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If you're right, than half the article doesn't make sense. If it's that obvious, why the writer says this ---> "A source close to the negotiations says Howard's representatives warned the Lakers that Howard would opt out of his contract and test the free-agent market next summer -- which has the Lakers' brass understandably nervous."

Don't get it, i thought he can be sign&traded with the new contract already signed.

Well, I think the key line is "test the free agent market". Howard HAS to opt out in order to sign a long term deal. So unless he's going to give the team he goes to a discount by signing an extension rather than a free agent contract, he's going to opt out. The key is whether is would be a hand shake type deal, as in "ok I'm opting out just so I can re-sign with you", or if it's an opt out so he can go on a free agency tour.

Regardless, no team is going to trade for him this season and get him to sign an extension.

[MavsFTR]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-how...way-to-%20nets

NBA PM: Howard Forcing His Way to Nets?
By Alex Kennedy
NBA Writer

When Dwight Howard first demanded a trade in December, the Orlando Magic gave him permission to speak with the New Jersey Nets, Dallas Mavericks and Los Angeles Lakers. While Howard dodges all questions related to his future, it seems that the 26-year-old is zeroing in on the Nets.

The Lakers have already been informed that Howard won’t sign a long-term deal in Los Angeles, according to sources close to the situation. If the Lakers were to trade for Howard, he would opt out and test free agency. Howard’s interest in Los Angeles has always been overstated, mainly because he doesn’t want to follow in Shaquille O’Neal’s footsteps and he doesn’t want to go through another rebuilding process anytime soon. With Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol in their thirties, Howard would be reaching his prime just as his All-Star teammates were declining.

Multiple sources believe Howard will force his way to the Nets and he certainly has leverage, just like Carmelo Anthony had last year when he would only agree to sign an extension with the New York Knicks. Howard wants to team up with Deron Williams, loves the idea of playing in Brooklyn and knows that the front office will involve him in the decision-making process.

This puts the Magic in a very difficult position. Their options are limited to trading Howard to New Jersey or hoping that a team is willing to acquire the superstar as a rental.

Then again, as RealGM’s Jarrod Rudolph points out, what’s stopping the Nets from being patient and waiting to sign Howard this summer? If New Jersey knows that Howard won’t sign a long-term deal anywhere else, they can hold onto their assets – such as Brook Lopez – and trade them in separate deals to surround Williams and Howard with more talent. Not to mention, if the Nets finish the season as currently assembled, they’ll likely have a top pick in this year’s draft, making their core even scarier.

Howard and Williams talked several times during the lockout and they went out to dinner in Orlando last month, one night before the Nets and Magic faced off on December 29. While the Nets have struggled this season and currently sit at 8-15, their record won’t affect Howard’s decision. He and Williams would form one of the best duos in the league and they wouldn’t have a problem attracting other talented players to Brooklyn.

A lot can change between now and July, but it certainly seems that New Jersey is Howard’s preferred destination.

[dude1394]

There is a lot to be said for new jersey. Big city, coast, etc. two,young guys making their own legacy instead of possibly being tied to the dirkster..

But...in Avery I trust....that's one big matza ball there.

[Budapest Maverick]

So Deron & Dwight in Brooklyn, or in Dallas? It looks like it's gonna come down to that. Man, i hope Cubes has something up in his sleeves.

[Windmill360]

"The only two teams with a realistic chance at signing Howard long-term are the New Jersey Nets and Orlando Magic."

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by Windmill360

"The only two teams with a realistic chance at signing Howard long-term are the New Jersey Nets and Orlando Magic."

Care for a source?

[markus1234]

Sorry, but Deron+Dwight is not a championship contender. Both need a guy like Dirk to become relevant.

Dwight is not Shaq and Deron is not Kobe.

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Sorry, but Deron+Dwight is not a championship contender. Both need a guy like Dirk to become relevant.

Dwight is not Shaq and Deron is not Kobe. Both were dominant in the last couple of years, because the league lacked elite PG and C. Now the league is loaded at both positions.

That's not true. I think that if the Nets can work with Dwight they might just sign him outright in the summer. From there they can trade Lopez for some good pieces (or keep if they want) and they will have a high draft pick this year.

If that goes down they are already contenders.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Sorry, but Deron+Dwight is not a championship contender. Both need a guy like Dirk to become relevant.

Dwight is not Shaq and Deron is not Kobe.

It probably beats what we are going to have in a few years if they don't come here. I would have to say this is unknowable.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Sorry, but Deron+Dwight is not a championship contender. Both need a guy like Dirk to become relevant.

Dwight is not Shaq and Deron is not Kobe.

Dwight is a much better defender than Shaq ever was, nowhere near as dominant offensively, but still a great, great player. Just look at the absolute garbage he had to work with in Orlando in every year. Makes Dirk's 2006 supporting cast look like an all-star team.

Any team he's on, is a top 5 defensive team instantly, give him another 2 good defenders, and they're nr. 1. The guy turned a starting lineup that consisted 4 horrible individual defenders besides gim into a top 5 defensive team. The guy is a top 2 player in this league at the moment.

Deron's best teammate was Carlos Boozer, injury prone, and one of the worst defenders of all-time. And he took him, and Kirilenko (good all-around player in his prime) to the playoffs, in almost every year, and if i remember correctly, even made the second round a couple of times, maybe one time the WCF too? Not sure about that. If you think Dwight+Deron is not a contender, you're delusional. With that said, the 3D would be a devastating fit on the floor, and most likely an unsolvable puzzle to the rest of the league.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

garbage he had to work with in Orlando in every year. Makes Dirk's 2006 supporting cast look like an all-star team.

Quis -
Josh -
Devin -
Damp -
Stack -
Diop -
Jet -

vs.

Turkoglu
Carter
J.Rich
Gortat
Bass
Rashard Lewis
Pietrus
and co.

really ?

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If you think Dwight+Deron is not a contender, you're delusional.

MIA, NY, IND, CHI will dominate the east in the next 5 yrs. That's what i think.

[adonis]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Sorry, but Deron+Dwight is not a championship contender. Both need a guy like Dirk to become relevant.

Dwight is not Shaq and Deron is not Kobe.

Sorry, but ANY team with Dwight Howard is a contender. Much less Dwight+a top 3 PG.

[4Dirk1Nowitzki]

Close this thread, hes coming to Dallas in the summer. Make sure you let all your Lakers fans friends know.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Quis -
Josh -
Devin -
Damp -
Stack -
Diop -
Jet -

vs.

Turkoglu
Carter
J.Rich
Gortat
Bass
Rashard Lewis
Pietrus
and co.

really ?



MIA, NY, IND, CHI will dominate the east in the next 5 yrs. That's what i think.

Yeah, that Orlando cast was definitely better than Dirk's 06' cast. You even forgot Jameer!

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Quis -
Josh -
Devin -
Damp -
Stack -
Diop -
Jet -

vs.

Turkoglu
Carter
J.Rich
Gortat
Bass
Rashard Lewis
Pietrus
and co.

really ?



MIA, NY, IND, CHI will dominate the east in the next 5 yrs. That's what i think.

You can't mix together all players that Dwight had in the last 5 years, lot of those names weren't on the roster at the same time. From a defensive standpoint, Dirk's supporting cast was definitely better. Both were garbage overall (on your usual championship supporting cast level), and offensively they were better, but i would rather have the Mavs'. I was exaggerating, it does not blow Dwight's cast out of the water, but still, i would rather have Howard and Harris, than Turkoglu and Lewis (2 horrible defender). Nelson was not playing during their finals run.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by 4Dirk1Nowitzki

Close this thread, hes coming to Dallas in the summer. Make sure you let all your Lakers fans friends know.

Yep, and we will all owe Kobe (Uh Dwight....I'm option #1 as long as I'm playing) and Shaq (you're superman for wearing a cape in the dunk contest, I'm SuperMan for other reasons.)

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by 4Dirk1Nowitzki

Close this thread, hes coming to Dallas in the summer. Make sure you let all your Lakers fans friends know.

Source?

[Firnen]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Source?

please, don't feed the trolls

[LonghornDub]

I fear this will all become irrelevant in <6 weeks if the Magic can't stop losing.

[Firnen]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I fear this will all become irrelevant in <6 weeks if the Magic can't stop losing.

thats the thing I still dont get at this point. I think the best move for Orlando would be to tank the next two seasons and rebuilt your team around Anderson and some high lottery picks. Maybe you can cash in D12 for 1 or 2 early picks as well.

If the Magic keep their Core except Dwight I don't think they could come out of the East against the Heat or Bulls even if they would get Bynum and Gasol for Howard and Hedo or something like that.

Just ask the Spurs whats the best way to built a contender... they did a pretty good job the season before they drafted Duncan

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Firnen

thats the thing I still dont get at this point. I think the best move for Orlando would be to tank the next two seasons and rebuilt your team around Anderson and some high lottery picks. Maybe you can cash in D12 for 1 or 2 early picks as well.

If the Magic keep their Core except Dwight I don't think they could come out of the East against the Heat or Bulls even if they would get Bynum and Gasol for Howard and Hedo or something like that.

Just ask the Spurs whats the best way to built a contender... they did a pretty good job the season before they drafted Duncan

I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like we're saying the same thing. I fear that if the Magic keep losing like this, they're going to unload Dwight to NJ for Brook and ton of high draft picks to rebuild with. And Dwight going to NJ is the absolute worst possible scenario for the Mavs.

[Firnen]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like we're saying the same thing. I fear that if the Magic keep losing like this, they're going to unload Dwight to NJ for Brook and ton of high draft picks to rebuild with. And Dwight going to NJ is the absolute worst possible scenario for the Mavs.

For a really good rebuilding process the Magic should try to get at least 3 Top10 draft picks in the classes of 2012(really loaded) and 2013
Just take a look how much the Cavs improved with their picks out of this poor 2011 draft - or think about the thunder -> The magic should really rebuilt from zero. they shouldnt keep Lopez if the get him -> he's too good to get them deep into the lottery but not good enough to be their franchise cornerstone. (but he will demand a big contract).

They just need to find a lottery team that promises a high draft pick and is willing to rent D12

[sefant77]

Fromt what i heard all the past months is that the Magic ownership doesnt want to rebuild/tank etc. I understand it, they have the a brandnew arena and even some lottery picks doesnt secure you future playoffs, just watch the Kings/Wiz/Warriors etc.

Looks like if they trade him they want to do it for quality experienced guys.

Same problem with the Rockets, Les Alexander doesnt want to rebuild/tank, so Morey getting all the average crap talent to Houston creating 0.500 teams going nowhere instead of blowing it up

[Budapest Maverick]

Yeah, they wanna sell tickets, and doesn't really believe in a total rebuild, just like Cuban. It's always a hard question, you can't win without talent in this league, but just because you have talent (even if plenty) there is no guarantee you'll even make the playoffs. The beauty of team sports, so many little thing, and detail needs to get together.

[Kidd Karma]

Plus the Orlando owners wants to see a Championship, I heard he's 85.

[EricaLubarsky]

In our case, it doesnt matter much how we get him. There are only really three options that I see

A) We trade for him, mortgage our other assets to make cap room and take a shot at D-Will. If we land him then we have Dirk, Howard and Williams with no cap space to fill the other 9 roster spots. If D-Will doesn't sign, then we may have Howard walk away and we are left in rebuilding mode with nothing to build with other than cap room.

B) We trade away Haywood or Marion, waive the other and renounce everyone else to sign both guys this summer. We either sign both or we miss out on both. If we sign them, we have Dirk, Howard and D-Will and no cap room but we still have our draft picks. If we miss out, then we have Dirk, picks and a lot of cap room but also a lot of roster spots to fill. It may be a rebuild but a rebuild with a few more resources. We may be able to re-sign Terry, Mahinmi and others in free-agency.

C) We fail to make a trade for either one and also don't clear the cap space for both to have near-max salaries. We stay with the team and look for a PG and some other scraps next year.

In any case, we cannot take back Hedo. If we take Hedo, we have no chance at making a run at D-Will in free-agency with Hedo on our books and if we can't make a run at D-Will, why would Howard want to stay in Dallas? Dirk, Hedo and Howard do not a complete roster make.

If we want either of them, we are going to have to either dump or trade our entire roster outside Dirk to do so. The only net difference between trading for one and dumping everything to sign them both is that a trade will also cost us our future picks as well. Both are risky moves, both will cost us the entire roster. Trading just costs us more as long as we still have the space to pick up D-Williams.

Its all moot, though, if Howard doesnt want to come here

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

In our case, it doesnt matter much how we get him. There are only really three options that I see

A) We trade for him, mortgage our other assets to make cap room and take a shot at D-Will. If we land him then we have Dirk, Howard and Williams with no cap space to fill the other 9 roster spots. If D-Will doesn't sign, then we may have Howard walk away and we are left in rebuilding mode with nothing to build with other than cap room.

B) We trade away Haywood or Marion, waive the other and renounce everyone else to sign both guys this summer. We either sign both or we miss out on both. If we sign them, we have Dirk, Howard and D-Will and no cap room but we still have our draft picks. If we miss out, then we have Dirk, picks and a lot of cap room but also a lot of roster spots to fill. It may be a rebuild but a rebuild with a few more resources. We may be able to re-sign Terry, Mahinmi and others in free-agency.

C) We fail to make a trade for either one and also don't clear the cap space for both to have near-max salaries. We stay with the team and look for a PG and some other scraps next year.

In any case, we cannot take back Hedo. If we take Hedo, we have no chance at making a run at D-Will in free-agency with Hedo on our books and if we can't make a run at D-Will, why would Howard want to stay in Dallas? Dirk, Hedo and Howard do not a complete roster make.

If we want either of them, we are going to have to either dump or trade our entire roster outside Dirk to do so. The only net difference between trading for one and dumping everything to sign them both is that a trade will also cost us our future picks as well. Both are risky moves, both will cost us the entire roster. Trading just costs us more as long as we still have the space to pick up D-Williams.

Its all moot, though, if Howard doesnt want to come here

As I said in the other thread, I find it ridiculous to just assume that Dwight wouldn't re-sign here just because we couldn't get Deron. We've been on his short list for months, and he'd have to take less money to leave.

And as I also mentioned in the other thread, the Mavs are not going to do all of their roster trimming moves until they have a commitment from guys. They don't have to blow up the roster until they know the plan.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by jthig32

As I said in the other thread, I find it ridiculous to just assume that Dwight wouldn't re-sign here just because we couldn't get Deron. We've been on his short list for months, and he'd have to take less money to leave.

And as I also mentioned in the other thread, the Mavs are not going to do all of their roster trimming moves until they have a commitment from guys. They don't have to blow up the roster until they know the plan.

Reagardless, the best case scenario requires us to dip down to Dirk (and perhaps Roddy/Jones) for at least a brief period if we want to get both. My point was that there really wouldn't be much of a difference in net cost between trading and signing both because in the end it would force us to clear our roster out.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Reagardless, the best case scenario requires us to dip down to Dirk (and perhaps Roddy/Jones) for at least a brief period if we want to get both. My point was that there really wouldn't be much of a difference in net cost between trading and signing both because in the end it would force us to clear our roster out.

That's true, although there's two aspects to trading for him that would be beneficial:

1. Cuban would save a ton of money by trading Haywood rather than amnestying him.

2. Trading for Dwight and then signing him in the summer would allow us to lock him up for 5 years instead of 4. Not to mention the fact that we'd have him for this season's stretch run as well.

[LonghornDub]

I wonder if there's any way we could build a package this year that could at least compete against the Nets' myriad picks and the Lakers' talent.

[rabbitproof]

If they want to win now, I think we get close.

The Nets' package is all about the future. The Lakers offer a mix of future and present (if they do Bynum + Pau). Not sure we can trump Bynum + Pau without absolutely gutting the team. Even then, it's probably a push.

Haywood/JET/Odom/Roddy/Ian/more youngs

Best hope remains free agency.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I wonder if there's any way we could build a package this year that could at least compete against the Nets' myriad picks and the Lakers' talent.

If Odom were playing well I might think it were possible. You would think that a normal Odom could represent a good and flexible trade chip that could be valuable to a lot of teams.

Without that, it seems awfully unlikely. I mean, maybe if they get really crazy they could move Jet and/or Kidd for assets the Magic would want. Jet would be a pretty valuable asset on his expiring contract.

But even though they'd have to let Jet walk leave this off season if they convinced Deron and Dwight to sign, trading him during the season just seems so unlikely.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

But even though they'd have to let Jet walk leave this off season if they convinced Deron and Dwight to sign, trading him during the season just seems so unlikely.

Agreed. Seems very unlikely to me. Though, as much as I like the guy and appreciate what he's done here, I'd move him in a heartbeat for Dwight.

[DTownKidd]

I just see no way that Dwight can be traded to us. Any combination we offer really isnt better than either the Nets or Lakers. The best we can offer is JETs expiring, but why would they want that...Dwight is an expiring contract.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

I just see no way that Dwight can be traded to us. Any combination we offer really isnt better than either the Nets or Lakers. The best we can offer is JETs expiring, but why would they want that...Dwight is an expiring contract.

I think Dwight has as much or more to say about than the magic.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

I just see no way that Dwight can be traded to us. Any combination we offer really isnt better than either the Nets or Lakers. The best we can offer is JETs expiring, but why would they want that...Dwight is an expiring contract.

Agreed, unless Cuban can somehow get 1 or 2 teams to help the mavs with a gerald wallace/iggy type talent +more no way he gets traded here.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

I just see no way that Dwight can be traded to us. Any combination we offer really isnt better than either the Nets or Lakers. The best we can offer is JETs expiring, but why would they want that...Dwight is an expiring contract.

The idea would be to flip assets like Jet to other teams for other assets that the Magic want.

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The idea would be to flip assets like Jet to other teams for other assets that the Magic want.

Im not too sure about the rules but dont you have to hold a player you get traded for a certain period of time? And that seems like a lot of work to trade 2 times rather than just find some talent you want or can keep in the 1 and only trade

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I think Dwight has as much or more to say about than the magic.

He can complain all he wants but if a team can put together a package better than the mavs there is no way the magic will entertain his interests rather than take what they want...in any circumstance.