Again? Kidd trade seems imminent - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

endrity · 02-17-2008, 07:19 PM

Just posted on ESPN

Mavericks back on track with Nets to get Kidd
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: February 17, 2008, 7:15 PM ET
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It's looking more and more like Jason Kidd's start for the road team in Sunday's NBA All-Star Game will indeed be his farewell to the Eastern Conference.

That's because the New Jersey Nets and Dallas Mavericks are again closing in on a deal that would send Kidd back to his original team, according to NBA front-office sources.

A reconfigured trade likely won't be submitted for league approval until Monday -- and is bound to draw a longer-than-usual examination from the league before it's approved after the many complications that derailed the teams' original agreement on Wednesday -- but sources say that the Mavericks and Nets have reached a tentative agreement on the two major changes to save the blockbuster swap.

Sources say Mavs swingman Trenton Hassell and the retired Keith Van Horn will be plugged into the trade in place of Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George. If the newly proposed deal goes through, New Jersey would receive 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, center DeSagana Diop, guard Maurice Ager, forwards Hassell and Van Horn, two first-round draft picks and $3 million in cash for Kidd and Nets forward Malik Allen.

To make up for the removal of George -- who blocked his inclusion by citing a little-known league rule that prevents certain players with one-year contracts from being traded without their consent -- Dallas has secured Van Horn's participation via sign-and-trade in George's place. Out of the game since the 2006 NBA Finals, Van Horn will be required to report to New Jersey and submit to a physical to complete the transaction, with sources adding that the amount Van Horn receives this season -- believed to be more than $4 million -- will not be pro-rated even though Van Horn would be joining the Nets with less than half the season remaining.

The Nets, meanwhile, have apparently given their blessing to taking Hassell from Dallas instead of Stackhouse. The Mavericks have been pushing for that switch since Friday in the wake of Stackhouse's quotes Wednesday that gave the impression that the teams had already arranged for the Nets to immediately buy out the 33-year-old's contract so the Mavericks could re-sign him after a 30-day waiting period.

It's believed that New Jersey had been resisting Hassell because his guaranteed salary in 2009-2010 ($4.4 million) is more than twice as much as Stackhouse's guarantee that season ($2 million) and because Hassell might be less amenable to a buyout than Stackhouse. But it looks as though the Nets will consent to the change to end a saga that had dragged on for days because George unexpectedly blocked the trade, even though they preferred the long-term financial implications of taking Stackhouse and buying him out.

If Van Horn's inclusion is sanctioned by the league Monday, this deal will likewise create a bigger luxury-tax bill for Mavs owner Mark Cuban than the original, with Dallas keeping Stackhouse and George.

At its core, though, both teams appear poised to ultimately get what they wanted in spite of a growing list of obstacles.

Dallas would come out of the protracted negotiations with an elite veteran point guard for the first time since Steve Nash's departure in the summer of 2004. Kidd's arrival also creates a foursome to rival any star core in the West -- along with Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard and Jason Terry -- and a likely antidote to the Mavericks' well-chronicled troubles with mental toughness, confidence and leadership in back-to-back playoff humblings by Miami and Golden State.

The bottom-line equation would stay the same for New Jersey as well, with Nets president Rod Thorn coming away with a highly regarded young point guard to replace Kidd in Harris, two expiring contracts (Diop and Van Horn) and the two first-round picks. It's a pretty good haul for a 34-year-old whose recent public disclosure that it was time for the Nets to trade him could have weakened Thorn's bargaining position.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:22 PM

Looks like it's going to happen, as most of us suspected.

I like this deal better. The only person who it's not as good for is Cuban himself, because he'll be paying a lot more.

And, of course, there's the downside of not being to trade KVH for Mike Miller. But we could still go after Cassell with our MLE, right? Man, it would be GREAT for JJB to have Kidd and Cassell here.

WraithXx · 02-17-2008, 07:23 PM

Finally! just get the damn thing done.

what about Wright, though?

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithXx

Finally! just get the damn thing done.

what about Wright, though?

Was wondering the same thing. I think I read before that the Wright thing won't happen now, but I don't have a source to cite to.

That's a little unfortunate, but I still think the Mavs may have one other (smaller) move before Thursday.

chumdawg · 02-17-2008, 07:28 PM

Release Diop and let the man come back home!!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-17-2008, 07:34 PM

Would be crappy not to get Wright. Probably an 80% chance of a trade now but lets hold off from the word imminent....heard that twice before with this and no trade. The revision does make things less confusing. We don't have to go through a Stackhouse fiasco.

Sigh...

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Release Diop and let the man come back home!!

I'd love that. I'd also be quite satisfied if they found a way to get Kurt Thomas here.

Dim499 · 02-17-2008, 07:36 PM

Too bad they had to use up KVH. Becuase this trade alone doesn't put them over the top imho. Their championship chances go from 16% to 19%.

Underdog · 02-17-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dim499

Too bad they had to use up KVH. Becuase this trade alone doesn't put them over the top imho. Their championship chances go from 16% to 19%.

I agree here - acquiring Jason Kidd looked a lot sexier when there was a possibility of bringing in another impact player... Now we're putting all our eggs in one basket...

Hopefully we pick up someone decent with our MLE (we still need a starting 2-guard...)

twistaeffect2004 · 02-17-2008, 07:43 PM

Is it possible Mad Max can be used in a Miller deal?

I mean, if Cuban wants to go all in, then do it baby. Get that wallet out Cubes.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I agree here - acquiring Jason Kidd looked a lot sexier when there was a possibility of bringing in another impact player... Now we're putting all our eggs in one basket...

Hopefully we pick up someone decent with our MLE...

Is there any way they can still get Miller, asset wise? Do we have anything left? I guess Terry...?

Underdog · 02-17-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Is there any way they can still get Miller, asset wise? Do we have anything left? I guess Terry...?

I'd do Terry for Miller - same game, plus defense...

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd do Tery for Miller - same game, plus defense...

I sure as hell would too, but I'm thinking Memphis doesn't particularly want Terry's bloated contract. Plus, it's not like they don't know that Miller is better than Terry. There'd have to be something else there to make them do that.

Alykhan04 · 02-17-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'd do Tery for Miller - same game, plus defense...

I think doing this combined with the Kidd deal WOULD give us a considerable edge over the Suns, Lakers, & Spurs. Damp, Dirk, JHo, Miller, Kidd...wow.

endrity · 02-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Is there any way they can still get Miller, asset wise? Do we have anything left? I guess Terry...?

Nothing left for Miller, he makes 7-8 per year which is quite a bit. And no one is taking Jet, with 4 more years remaining on his deal.
i have heard this idea of vernon maxwell, i don't know if we can use his rights just like KVH.

At this point our best hope is:
a) Someone gets released from their teams (Thomas, Cassell) and we sign them with the MLE
b) Diop is bought out, and we sign him.

I was hoping to see Diop not included and for KVH's contract to cover his contract as well. But I am also starting to believe that Avery doesn't hold him in high regard, and we will see even more Bass. It's very dissapointing to me, because Diop to me is still a great defender and Bass can't make up for his lack of height and wingspan.

Underdog · 02-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I sure as hell would too, but I'm thinking Memphis doesn't particularly want Terry's bloated contract. Plus, it's not like they don't know that Miller is better than Terry. There'd have to be something else there to make them do that.

I think Terry for Miller works if we toss in a case of Lonestar (it's a lot better than they got for Gasol!)

Pirate · 02-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Would be crappy not to get Wright. Probably an 80% chance of a trade now but lets hold off from the word imminent....heard that twice before with this and no trade. The revision does make things less confusing. We don't have to go through a Stackhouse fiasco. Sigh...

Wright was purely a financial inclusion to transfer salary from NJ to Dallas. Neither team apparently thinks he has any value on the court.

Stranger · 02-17-2008, 07:50 PM

Excellent--this is what had to happen at this point. Good for Mark for ponying up the dough. I wonder if the delay was really due to time needed to contact and negotiate with Van Horn?

jthig32 · 02-17-2008, 07:51 PM

I doubt very seriously we have the assets for Miller now.

And I can back up PDub on the Antoine Wright thing. I read at least one article stating that if Van Horn is sent instead of George that Wright would no longer be part of the trade. Makes sense, as we would no longer be under the minimum roster limit, would still have George, and would be making a bigger financial commitment.

I'm still not a huge fan of this trade, but I applaud Cuban for not allowying the extra Luxury Tax to get in the way of the trade. All the haters can just shut up.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think Terry for Miller works if we toss in a case of Lonestar (it's a lot better than they got for Gasol!)

A case? I'm not sure that's even necessary dude. I'm thinking a 6-pack and a can of mixed nuts would do the trick.

StackAttack · 02-17-2008, 08:01 PM

Great. I hope we've got some more wheeling and dealing left in us before Thursday.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-17-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate

Wright was purely a financial inclusion to transfer salary from NJ to Dallas. Neither team apparently thinks he has any value on the court.

Which is strange because 7ppg is better then any of our shooting guards not named Terry. Wright would be good for some lob dunks from Kidd at least.

Edit: Forgot Stack since he won't be traded now. Still, Wright is at least worth 10 minutes a game.

DelNegro · 02-17-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Excellent--this is what had to happen at this point. Good for Mark for ponying up the dough. I wonder if the delay was really due to time needed to contact and negotiate with Van Horn?

I believe the holdup was trying to figure out how many practices KVH would actually have to attend before being allowed to fake a gruesome career ending injury.

u2sarajevo · 02-17-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

A case? I'm not sure that's even necessary dude. I'm thinking a 6-pack and a can of mixed nuts would do the trick.

The only way we come out better on your revision is if the can of nuts is 80% peanuts. I have a feeling they would ask for pecans and almonds..... or God forbid macadamia nuts.

jthig32 · 02-17-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

I believe the holdup was trying to figure out how many practices KVH would actually have to attend before being allowed to fake a gruesome career ending injury.

Hey Vinny, have you posted your opinion on what this trade does for the Mavs? I'm always interested in views from the opposition, and you're easily one of the best other-team posters on this board. Just curious.

MavsFanFinley · 02-17-2008, 08:06 PM

I figured it would happen. I still can't believe we're giving up Harris and Diop considering what they do against the Spurs. I hope Kidd delivers and then some.

Not sure we have anything left to get Miller so I think we can forget that dream.

We can also forget about Diop returning if the Nets waive him. From his comments it doesn't sound like he'd want to come back to Dallas.

Damp
Dirk
Howard
Jones
Kidd

Pretty sick starting 5 with Terry, Stack, and Bass off the bench. Too thin at center for my liking though.

jthig32 · 02-17-2008, 08:08 PM

So does Terry eventually end up back in the starting lineup? You have to figure this means a LOT more court time for Terry at the 2, and he and Kidd should be able to share a backcourt.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 08:08 PM

FYI, Stein just updated the page with another little blurb:

Quote:

One source close to the process told ESPN.com that a conference call with the league to review the trade details is scheduled for Monday morning.

Good stuff. Sounds like it's close.

scorched03 · 02-17-2008, 08:10 PM

errrrr. again. seriously. this is the best haggling you can do mark? bad.

jthig32 · 02-17-2008, 08:10 PM

Without Stack in the deal you have to figure the only thing that's going to get a ton of scrutiny is the Van Horn thing, and I'm just going to assume that, given all these crazy events so far, they've got that issue squared away completely.

dude1394 · 02-17-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So does Terry eventually end up back in the starting lineup? You have to figure this means a LOT more court time for Terry at the 2, and he and Kidd should be able to share a backcourt.

I think it does, I would expect that finding something to do with jason was part of it...he at least will be on the court at the end which I've always thought was more important.

So the end lineup is:

Kidd
Jason
Josh
Dirk
Damp? or Stack?

uberfan · 02-17-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So does Terry eventually end up back in the starting lineup? You have to figure this means a LOT more court time for Terry at the 2, and he and Kidd should be able to share a backcourt.

I think that he will and it will be one of the reasons used to justify this trade. I think Stack returns to his familar 6th man role.

As much as I liked Eddie Jones of old he hasn't shown me enough to be a starter with Kidd. I actually liked a healthy George starting over Jones or Hassell.

jthig32 · 02-17-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I think it does, I would expect that finding something to do with jason was part of it...he at least will be on the court at the end which I've always thought was more important.

So the end lineup is:

Kidd
Jason
Josh
Dirk
Damp? or Stack?

With the drop in defense on the perimeter, I think you have to assume it will be Damp most of the time.

mary · 02-17-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Without Stack in the deal you have to figure the only thing that's going to get a ton of scrutiny is the Van Horn thing, and I'm just going to assume that, given all these crazy events so far, they've got that issue squared away completely.

You would think. It would be AWFUL if this thing fell apart again.

LonghornDub · 02-17-2008, 08:13 PM

Anybody hear Kidd interviewed before the game just now? He said something is going to happen tonight or tomorrow morning. When asked what his gut told him, he said, "I think I'll be in Dallas."