Only chance Mavs have is for Avery to take a backseat, and let Kidd run the show! - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jamyoa · 03-26-2008, 02:40 AM

I have to say that with, or without Dirk the Mavs will never win a ring with Avery-Dolf Hitler as their coach. Avery is a control freak. He doesn't trust any of his players, and he doesn't have his own system. The reason they were so good was because of Dale Harris. Just look at the Lakers, Rockets, Hornets, when they needed a coach U didn't see any owners hire a guy who had just retired from the N.B.A. they hired veteran coaches. Just look at their records. The only chance the Mavs have to at least make it into the post-season is for Avery to just take a back seat and shut his big mouth, and let Kidd run the offense. We all know that won't happen, because his has the balls to tell Mark C. that if he doesn't like the way he coaches then he can coach the damn team himself. Right then and there Mark should've fired his ass. I bet the players would be glad and play alot harder. Mavs are so burned out on A.J. We fans are burned out on him, and we only see him on t.v., or at the games. just imagine how sick the Mavs are of hearing A.J. everyday. So Mark wise up, and fire his ass A.S.A.P. while Dirk is in his prime. A.J. has had almost 4 yrs with this team and has continued to ruin them. We are going in reverse with him. Yes, I know he has won alot of games ect..., but we all know he inherited a good Don Nelson team in which he's ruined. It's time for a change NOW!

mqywaaah · 03-26-2008, 04:41 AM

Again with the no paragraphs. Please?

DavidDaMonkey · 03-26-2008, 07:37 AM

I never thought I'd love the ignore list this much. It really is magical.

LSMF · 03-26-2008, 08:22 AM

I think this is a good post.

MavsX · 03-26-2008, 11:30 AM

jamyoa maybe you should just sit the next few plays out. (meaning, don't start a new thread for a few weeks)

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 11:44 AM

A lot of what he is saying is true

dirno2000 · 03-26-2008, 11:55 AM

I just heard Avery on with Norm and the question of when he'll turn the offense over to Kidd was asked. Avery chuckled as if to say "if you only knew".

He said that he has turned the offense over to Kidd. Kidd is calling plays (although he didn't say what percentage) and he has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do on the offensive end. Avery is just concentrating on the defense.

My guess is that Kidd has more autonomy than people think.

The Crippler · 03-26-2008, 12:00 PM

Maybe, just maybe, Kidd is just really not that good anymore. It doesn't seem that many are wanting to accept this as reality.

dirno2000 · 03-26-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

Maybe, just maybe, Kidd is just really not that good anymore. It doesn't seem that many are wanting to accept this as reality.

I reluctantly bought in to this after the Spurs game.

kg_veteran · 03-26-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I just heard Avery on with Norm and the question of when he'll turn the offense over to Kidd was asked. Avery chuckled as if to say "if you only knew".

He said that he has turned the offense over to Kidd. Kidd is calling plays (although he didn't say what percentage) and he has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do on the offensive end. Avery is just concentrating on the defense.

My guess is that Kidd has more autonomy than people think.

I'm sure he does let Kidd call most of the plays against the Clippers. I just hope he'll start doing it all the time, particularly in the 4th quarter against good teams.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 12:30 PM

Kidd may have some freedom, but when he is bringing the ball up and he hears Avery stupuid big mouth yellin from the other side of the court about something or calling a play that he thinks mite be better, it can confuse the hell out of anyone. I still think Avery tries to control wayy to much

The Crippler · 03-26-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I reluctantly bought in to this after the Spurs game.

yeah, I was really believing the Kidd-hype early, but the more that I watch him, the more average that he becomes. Yes, he does some crazy good stuff out there sometimes, but with every good thing he does, he seemingly does something bad (i.e., the 7 turnovers last night). He's an average pg in the western conference...in my amateur opinion, he's the 6th or 7th best pg in the conference.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Parker
B. Davis

Are all better than him, leaving him 6th tops, which makes him smack-dab in the middle of 15 teams, which makes him average. Boy, we got raped in this one.

Tokey41 · 03-26-2008, 12:46 PM

How do you only have two red boxes? You've made at the very least 5 different threads about Avery being incompetent. I think we all know where you stand on the subject.

It's not just Avery, Kidd has to be blamed for some of the failure as well... he just isn't the same player that we thought we traded for.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

yeah, I was really believing the Kidd-hype early, but the more that I watch him, the more average that he becomes. Yes, he does some crazy good stuff out there sometimes, but with every good thing he does, he seemingly does something bad (i.e., the 7 turnovers last night). He's an average pg in the western conference...in my amateur opinion, he's the 6th or 7th best pg in the conference.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Parker
B. Davis

Are all better than him, leaving him 6th tops, which makes him smack-dab in the middle of 15 teams, which makes him average. Boy, we got raped in this one.

we got raped?? If Kidd is 6th in the West then where was Harris???

and a lot of those guys are younger then Kidd and all great players, but Kidd is still got the highest BB IQ of them all and ore experience in big games ...that is what we will need to get it done

LonghornDub · 03-26-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

yeah, I was really believing the Kidd-hype early, but the more that I watch him, the more average that he becomes. Yes, he does some crazy good stuff out there sometimes, but with every good thing he does, he seemingly does something bad (i.e., the 7 turnovers last night). He's an average pg in the western conference...in my amateur opinion, he's the 6th or 7th best pg in the conference.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Parker
B. Davis

Are all better than him, leaving him 6th tops, which makes him smack-dab in the middle of 15 teams, which makes him average. Boy, we got raped in this one.

Kidd is a better PG than Davis or Parker, IMO.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 01:11 PM

IF Kidd is 6th...then what was Harris?? simple qustion

Parker is not a better pg....the other guys mite be a step ahead because they can all score better while also being great passers

EricaLubarsky · 03-26-2008, 01:26 PM

I may be old fashioned but comparing a charismatic but somewhat clueless basketball coach to Adolf Hitler seems like hyperbole to me.

kg_veteran · 03-26-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

yeah, I was really believing the Kidd-hype early, but the more that I watch him, the more average that he becomes. Yes, he does some crazy good stuff out there sometimes, but with every good thing he does, he seemingly does something bad (i.e., the 7 turnovers last night). He's an average pg in the western conference...in my amateur opinion, he's the 6th or 7th best pg in the conference.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Parker
B. Davis

Are all better than him, leaving him 6th tops, which makes him smack-dab in the middle of 15 teams, which makes him average. Boy, we got raped in this one.

I'll agree with Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Deron Williams, but those guys are asked to do a lot more scoring for their teams than Kidd is for his. I'm not going to hold it against you if you're down on Kidd, but I don't agree with anybody calling him average.

The Crippler · 03-26-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

IF Kidd is 6th...then what was Harris?? simple qustion

Parker is not a better pg....the other guys mite be a step ahead because they can all score better while also being great passers

Harris was probably 6th or 7th as well. So...we decided to throw in a couple of firsts to even it out? History shows that moves made out of desperation don't usually work out.

The Spurs would not trade Parker for Kidd. No team would. Well, maybe one team, but I digress. Parker is better.

LonghornDub · 03-26-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

The Spurs would not trade Parker for Kidd. No team would. Well, maybe one team, but I digress. Parker is better.

They wouldn't trade Parker for Kidd because they are at least in the same tier of ability and Parker is much younger. Kidd is still better than him, though, if we're talking about ranking them from a sheer ability standpoint, despite the fact that they are in the same tier.

Harris is nowhere near Kidd's ability, so the fact that he's much younger is far less relevant, and such a trade is far more reasonable.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

Harris was probably 6th or 7th as well. So...we decided to throw in a couple of firsts to even it out? History shows that moves made out of desperation don't usually work out.

The Spurs would not trade Parker for Kidd. No team would. Well, maybe one team, but I digress. Parker is better.

Harris is not close to being the pg that Kidd is...Parker is a better scorer but not by a lot because hes not a great shooter, Kidd is better in ever category and not to mention the lil things he does. So NO WAY is Parker a better pg thn Kidd. The other guys mite be at this point because they are younger and really good passers, while being better scorers.

Bottom line is when you look at the impact a pg can have on their team all these are among the top in the league. it comes down to the experience and mental toughness and Kidd is got more of that then anyone of them

The Crippler · 03-26-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'll agree with Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Deron Williams, but those guys are asked to do a lot more scoring for their teams than Kidd is for his. I'm not going to hold it against you if you're down on Kidd, but I don't agree with anybody calling him average.

You don't think that Baron Davis or Tony Parker are better than Kidd? Seriously? Have y'all not looked at what Parker has done the last 3 years? Combined with his age, that's a no-brainer to me.

The Crippler · 03-26-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Harris is not close to being the pg that Kidd is...Parker is a better scorer but not by a lot because hes not a great shooter, Kidd is better in ever category and not to mention the lil things he does. So NO WAY is Parker a better pg thn Kidd. The other guys mite be at this point because they are younger and really good passers, while being better scorers.

Bottom line is when you look at the impact a pg can have on their team all these are among the top in the league. it comes down to the experience and mental toughness and Kidd is got more of that then anyone of them

Experience is overrated. Lot's of times it means you are old.

Tony Parker's not a great shooter? His shooting % the last 3 years. .548, .520, and .486 this year. He's also a 49% shooter for his career. He might not have a great outside jumper, but the fact is that he's averaged 18.5 a game while shooting over 50% the last 3 years. He's a plenty good shooter.

LonghornDub · 03-26-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

You don't think that Baron Davis or Tony Parker are better than Kidd? Seriously? Have y'all not looked at what Parker has done the last 3 years? Combined with his age, that's a no-brainer to me.

Even playing with Tim Duncan, Parker still hasn't been as productive for his team over the past 3 years as Kidd has. Baron Davis has PLENTY of weaknesses, too. We just tend to forget that cause he owns the Mavs.

dirno2000 · 03-26-2008, 02:02 PM

Kidd is such a unique player that it's next to impossible to rank him against other PG's. And does it really matter if he's better than Tony Parker or Barron Davis? What's important is how they contribute to the success of their respective teams and, to that end, I'd like to see more from Kidd than I've been seeing. Especially in late game situations.

LonghornDub · 03-26-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Kidd is such a unique player that it's next to impossible to rank him against other PG's. And does it really matter if he's better than Tony Parker or Barron Davis?

At least the Kidd vs. Parker/Davis question is debatable. The Kidd vs. Harris question is laughable.

dirno2000 · 03-26-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

At least the Kidd vs. Parker/Davis question is debatable. The Kidd vs. Harris question is laughable.

That may be true but is that the right way to look at it? What matters is the Mavs with Kidd vs. the Mavs with Harris. I'm not convinced that the latter is significantly better.

I'm willing to give it more time and, if Cuban deems necessary, a different coach. But I have an uneasy feeling that what we're seeing out of Kidd is what he is.

alexamenos · 03-26-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

.... He's an average pg in the western conference...in my amateur opinion, he's the 6th or 7th best pg in the conference.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Parker
B. Davis

Are all better than him, leaving him 6th tops, which makes him smack-dab in the middle of 15 teams, which makes him average.

Iverson plays the one at Denver, no?

I don't know whether I'd say it's a no-brainer that B-D, Parker and Iverson are better than Kidd, but I would say he's closer to the 7th than he is the 1st.

rmacomic · 03-26-2008, 02:22 PM

jaymoia's post are like reading a "choose your own adventure" novel straight through.

FreshJive · 03-26-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I just heard Avery on with Norm and the question of when he'll turn the offense over to Kidd was asked. Avery chuckled as if to say "if you only knew".

He said that he has turned the offense over to Kidd. Kidd is calling plays (although he didn't say what percentage) and he has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do on the offensive end. Avery is just concentrating on the defense.

My guess is that Kidd has more autonomy than people think.

I don't believe this is true. I don't remember the exact quote, but Kidd said something like he is trying to go along with what Avery is calling, but that the team just needs to push it, and it's not rocket science or something like that.

Plus if the list of plays that are available are iso, iso, iso.... then what does it matter if the pg can choose among them. I would be very surprised if Kidd really wants to hand the ball off to our wings and go stand in the corner.

The longer Kidd becomes acclimated to Avery's system the worse he looks IMO.

jthig32 · 03-26-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

I don't believe this is true. I don't remember the exact quote, but Kidd said something like he is trying to go along with what Avery is calling, but that the team just needs to push it, and it's not rocket science or something like that.

Plus if the list of plays that are available are iso, iso, iso.... then what does it matter if the pg can choose among them. I would be very surprised if Kidd really wants to hand the ball off to our wings and go stand in the corner.

The longer Kidd becomes acclimated to Avery's system the worse he looks IMO.

Yup. Kidd's quote indicate that he is NOT calling the majority of the plays. Just comes down to who you believe.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 03:00 PM

I believe Kidd because even when Avery is not running his annoying big mouth.. i think Kidd has to run plays that Avery choose in practice or something. Kidd need to freelance and do things instinctively out there. Another words run and go with what ever he sees. Not saying tht AJ should never call plays, but he needs to back off if we want to succeed

Bookit · 03-26-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Even playing with Tim Duncan, Parker still hasn't been as productive for his team over the past 3 years as Kidd has. Baron Davis has PLENTY of weaknesses, too. We just tend to forget that cause he owns the Mavs.

Baron Davis might have weaknesses but he is WAY ahead of Kidd right now. It isn't even close. If Kidd had any offensive game whatsoever then it might be a little closer. All things considered, I agree with The Crippler, we got raped on the Kidd deal.

quiet riot act · 03-26-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I just heard Avery on with Norm and the question of when he'll turn the offense over to Kidd was asked. Avery chuckled as if to say "if you only knew".

He said that he has turned the offense over to Kidd. Kidd is calling plays (although he didn't say what percentage) and he has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do on the offensive end. Avery is just concentrating on the defense.

My guess is that Kidd has more autonomy than people think.

avery is so full of s

he has been talking up the d for weeks so he will take credit for it
the offense sucks ass so he blames someone else
i hate that f'er more than anybody
what a petty megalomaniac piece of s
die avery die

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 03-26-2008, 03:25 PM

What I don't understand is we give up Diop and we pick up Maglorie but has he even gotten in a game yet? Is he that worthless now? He used to be pretty damn good, probably better than Diop.

LonghornDub · 03-26-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Baron Davis might have weaknesses but he is WAY ahead of Kidd right now. It isn't even close. If Kidd had any offensive game whatsoever then it might be a little closer. All things considered, I agree with The Crippler, we got raped on the Kidd deal.

But, in fact, you're not considering "all things" at all. You're considering Kidd's performance here in < 20 games, and, really, you're probably only including the games against good teams.

That's hardly all things considered. Kidd was a better player than Baron when he was on the Nets. He still is, but he just hasn't shown it consistently yet.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Baron Davis might have weaknesses but he is WAY ahead of Kidd right now. It isn't even close. If Kidd had any offensive game whatsoever then it might be a little closer. All things considered, I agree with The Crippler, we got raped on the Kidd deal.

I agree that Davis is better at this point. In fact i would put Davis at #1 because hes unstoppable while being a great passer and a good rebounder. The other guys are prolly better too, but it closer with them. I dont think in any way that Parker is better then Kidd.

Having said that I believe when it comes down to the wire Kidd will be able to pull us through and thats why we got him.

STUPID STATEMENT OF THE YEAR: Kidd and Harris are both 6th in the West...

Kidd may not be what he once was, but Harris will never be what Kidd was or is

Flip41 · 03-26-2008, 03:30 PM

Magloire got some run last night and didn't look too bad. I think he can regain what he once had. He just needs to knock that heavy rust off. He had a quick turn around move that ended up being a travel, but it was faster than I have seen him move so far.

AxdemxO · 03-26-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

What I don't understand is we give up Diop and we pick up Maglorie but has he even gotten in a game yet? Is he that worthless now? He used to be pretty damn good, probably better than Diop.

Bass plays C..because Avery knows what hes doing

Bookit · 03-26-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

But, in fact, you're not considering "all things" at all. You're considering Kidd's performance here in < 20 games, and, really, you're probably only including the games against good teams.

That's hardly all things considered. Kidd was a better player than Baron when he was on the Nets. He still is, but he just hasn't shown it consistently yet.

Actually, I am considering all things. Just like I stated. All things considered, Baron is way better than Kidd.