Connections and Contradictions

[Lvubun1]

Half the people in the ad are contradicted by official military records or their own words. Not to mention the other dozen or so who were not in the ads, that have also been contradicted, most recently Larry Thurlow a leader of the group, who claimed their wasn't any enemy fire when Kerry saved Rassmann but the disclosing of Thurlow's official military records show that their was fire and he also won a Bronze Star himself for actions taken during this engagement, therefore contradicting Thurlow's claim that there was no enemy fire at the time.

Larry Thurlow, today: "...there was no hostile enemy fire directed at
my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day."

Larry Thurlow's Bronze Star citation, 1969: "...all units began
receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river
banks."

They were either lying then or they're lying now.

Take your pick.

But either way, since there's no documentary evidence to back up their
stories, the only thing going for them is their own personal
credibility.

And that seems pretty thin, doesn't it?

The Rasmussen Reports poll shows that only 15% believe Kerry is lying about his military record, and this was before the Thurlow records were released. Kerry needs to back-off and let this thing continue to blow-up in GWB's face.

[dude1394]

Not from a reputable newspaper.

[kg_veteran]

Hasn't this topic been covered already? As LRB aptly pointed out yesterday, there are just as many (if not more) connections between the liberal 527s like MoveOn.org and Media Fund and John Kerry and/or the Democrats as there are between SBVT and the Bush campaign. Neither set of "connections" proves anything.

The big difference is that about $145 million has been given to 527s devoted to defeating Bush; only $9 million has been given to groups devoted to defeating Kerry.

Be intellectually honest about the 527s, John Kerry.

As for "this whole thing" blowing up in Bush's face, Bush is NOT behind the SBVT, but the polls have said the opposite of what you're saying. That is, a lot more people (specifically, veterans) are questioning Kerry's fitness as a result of those ads.

[LRB]

One other difference KG, George Bush has called for the end of all 527's. Kerry has remained strangely silent and has not taken up the President's request to condemn all 527's. Oh and Dude reported that he found an announcement of a coordinated activity betweent he DNC, Moveon.org, and another 527 that was being advertized on the DNC web site.

[Epitome22]

Good post Lvbun. You should have known they would dodge the issue though

[FishForLunch]

Like Kerry's running mate said today all Vetrans who question Kerry are liars.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
Good post Lvbun. You should have known they would dodge the issue though

Which issue is that epitome?

- that all of these vietnam veterans, more decorated and serving their country far longer and under much more duress than kerry are all liars?
- that they are not only all liars but also tools of the rnc?
- that one specific fella Larry Thurlow thought his bronze star was for jumping on the PC3 boat that was blown up and saving the crews lives? Saying that there was no enemy fire and if he was given the bronze star because of it, then he didn't deserve it?

which exact issue are you quibbling about?

- Or do you mean the issue that the director of Act and MediaOrg (almost 40million in anti-bush ads) is headed up by harold ickes. Hillary and Bill Clinton advisor and certainly every bit as much a political insider as anyone on this list. I don't see an ex presidential advisor on the swifties, maybe you do.

As I said, not a reputable news source.

[dude1394]

Or maybe this point made by a clinton appointee today:

Federal Election Commission Chairman Defends Swift Boat Ads

Aug. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Election Commission Chairman Bradley Smith defended the right of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an independent political group, to run commercials against Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, who complained to the commission about the ads.

Kerry, 60, a four-term Massachusetts senator, alleged last week that the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth illegally coordinated its activities with President George W. Bush's re-election campaign. Smith, a Republican, said members of the group are exercising their constitutional right to free speech.

``I think it's great we live in a country where 260 average guys can go out and put their point of view out there before the public and influence a major presidential race,'' Smith said in an interview with Bloomberg television. ``I am not one who agrees it is illegitimate for citizens to take a stand on these kind of issues and only the politicians should be able to say what they want about the issues they want to talk about.''

Like I said, not a reputable news source.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Which issue is that epitome?

Dude I think that epitome was talking about the seven degrees of George Bush game that Luvbun started. It's really unfair to switch to seven degrees of John kerry because that is sooooooooo much eaiser to play. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[Epitome22]

[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

Which issue is that epitome?

- that all of these vietnam veterans, more decorated and serving their country far longer and under much more duress than kerry are all liars?

Effectively, yes. According to the information kindly posted above, it would appear that whether these particular vets were being untruthful then, or untruthful now, they are indeed liars.


[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

- that they are not only all liars but also tools of the rnc?

I don't know whether they have official Repub backing or not so I'll suspend judgement on that. But that's not the issue, the issue is their credibility when it is documented that they are liars.



[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

- that one specific fella Larry Thurlow thought his bronze star was for jumping on the PC3 boat that was blown up and saving the crews lives? Saying that there was no enemy fire and if he was given the bronze star because of it, then he didn't deserve it?

Since I have no idea what you are talking about. No that isn't the issue.


[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

which exact issue are you quibbling about?

The one started in the thread. Documenting certain swift vets contradictory accounts of Kerry's service and their potential backing by the official Republican party line.


[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

- Or do you mean the issue that the director of Act and MediaOrg (almost 40million in anti-bush ads) is headed up by harold ickes. Hillary and Bill Clinton advisor and certainly every bit as much a political insider as anyone on this list. I don't see an ex presidential advisor on the swifties, maybe you do.

Yes, a predictable response. First deny Republican backing of the swiftys. When pressure gets too high, merely retort that Repubs are merely playing the same game. A good way to absolve oneself of accountability.

[quote]
Originally posted by: dude1394

Originally posted by: Epitome22

As I said, not a reputable news source.

Yes I heard you say that. Which is puzzling because I can't see either a link to a newsource where lvbuns information came from (unless you know something I don't, possibility) and no part of your post that takes exception to, or has anything to with said News sources' "credibility"

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Or maybe this point made by a clinton appointee today:

Like I said, not a reputable news source.

Again, you are confusing. What does this story have to do with the alleged credibility of Lvbun's news source? Please address this issue first before changing the subject.

[Lvubun1]

As for the news source, all those stories can be found in various papers, Bill O'Reily of all people broke the story about the medic who treated Kerry but never showed up in his reports, the "news source" of the post just happened to put everything in a nice little pretty picture. I'm probably wrong, this might not blow up in GWB's face, but it will go away quickly. Next week you have the RNC's and that will get 90% of the press, afterwards you have dicussion of the RNC's, which will lead right into the debate season and I don't see this nor Bush's National Guard record ever being a issue as frankly most Americans don't care, it will come down to the issues.