2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

[mac222b]

Just think, we could’ve had Dragic (Luka friend and mentor and certified baller) but the Mavs insisted on Derrick Jones Jr. who can hardly crack Miami’s playoff rotation. Instead we got an albatross in Delon and let the excess space go to waste. Because we were waiting for a washed Danny Green to play us? MBT wayyyyy over thought that one. And I kind of like Jones Jr.

[FreshJive]

We actually have no idea what happened with the Dragic deal. It was reported weirdly.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

We actually have no idea what happened with the Dragic deal. It was reported weirdly.

Yeah, both sides leaked incorrect info to save face afterwards.

My best guess is that the Mavs ultimately decided that Delon Wright + Danny Green (who they didn't even get, but who was stringing them along at the time) was a better use of their cap space than Dragic.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Yeah, both sides leaked incorrect info to save face afterwards.

My best guess is that the Mavs ultimately decided that Delon Wright + Danny Green (who they didn't even get, but who was stringing them along at the time) was a better use of their cap space than Dragic.

What makes you think they BOTH leaked incorrect info? What would be the purpose? So as not to offend the almost traded players? The whole thing was very strange. Either Miami or Dallas saw something they liked better and backed out and the aggrieved party complained aloud.

Obviously it’s in the past, my pint was just that there is a good chance we passed on Dragic. Which isn’t even that big a whiff. Except the alternative turned out to be beyond underwhelming: Delon (now negative value) and wasted cap space. Dragic worst case was an expiring buddy of Luka. Best case he’s healthy and vaults us to a 3 or 4 seed and maybe we re-sign him. Of course, they could’ve also landed something better potentially, but it didn’t work out that way.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

We actually have no idea what happened with the Dragic deal. It was reported weirdly.

This is true. We may never know exactly what went down unless Cuban goes back on his Adderall or whatever and starts talking again. But there is perhaps a decent chance that what Miami said is true: they had a deal in place for Dragic and Dallas reneged. Dallas saves face by saying they had agreed to something else when they maybe thought they could have something they liked better than Dragic lined up, and then it didn’t come to fruition.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Rmemeber that Miami had to clear cap space for Butler so Mavs thought they had more of a drivers seat for negotiations. But as we know, good gms can clear up space in many ways. Dallas likely wanted an extra piece or two abd miami wouldn’t have it.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Damn, this Lakers-Nuggets game was intense! Great duel between Jokic and Davis to close it out. I said it was put up or shut up time for AD, and he responds with a cold blooded game-winner.

[EricaLubarsky]

https://brobible.com/sports/article/...n0Mvr9GUdXqFH4

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Paul George is basically Joe Johnson. Super talented players that just don't have the motivation or "it" factor to be superstars.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Paul George is basically Joe Johnson. Super talented players that just don't have the motivation or "it" factor to be superstars.

Hilarious. I was just making this exact comparison in a discussion with someone the other day.

You must be a smart dude.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Paul George is basically Joe Johnson. Super talented players that just don't have the motivation or "it" factor to be superstars.

I have a higher opinion of Joe Johnson than I do of Paul George for one reason. Joe Johnson did maybe the single toughest thing I've ever seen in an NBA game. In 2005, Mavs/Suns western semis, JJ went up for a dunk or layup, got fouled by Stackhouse, fell HARD on his face. We found out after the game that he had a motherf****ing shattered orbital socket. The dude not only still took both of his free throws, but even made one of them. He earned my respect forever that night. You can call him a lot of things, but one thing you can never, ever call him is soft. Paul George on the other hand, I have absolutely zero problem with calling him soft.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I have a higher opinion of Joe Johnson than I do of Paul George for one reason. Joe Johnson did maybe the single toughest thing I've ever seen in an NBA game. In 2005, Mavs/Suns western semis, JJ went up for a dunk or layup, got fouled by Stackhouse, fell HARD on his face. We found out after the game that he had a motherf****ing shattered orbital socket. The dude not only still took both of his free throws, but even made one of them. He earned my respect forever that night. You can call him a lot of things, but one thing you can never, ever call him is soft. Paul George on the other hand, I have absolutely zero problem with calling him soft.

No, soft isn't what I mean. A certain lack of motivation is more the ticket. No killer instinct.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

No, soft isn't what I mean. A certain lack of motivation is more the ticket. No killer instinct.

I didn't think you were calling him soft. I'm saying I have a higher opinion of him than I do of Paul George because I think Paul George is soft, and I could never say that about JJ.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I didn't think you were calling him soft. I'm saying I have a higher opinion of him than I do of Paul George because I think Paul George is soft, and I could never say that about JJ.

But that article you posted reflects more on Doc Rivers than anything. The entire team rolling their eyes and acting like petulant children is most definitely a coaching problem. Mavs have had their issues in the past, but I'm not sure anything like that has happened on the team.

[sefant77]

I wouldnt be surprised if Kawhi tells the Clippers to shop George for someone else like Beal

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I wouldnt be surprised if Kawhi tells the Clippers to shop George for someone else like Beal

I just now saw this story, but... oof.

Clippers Rumors: Paul George Met with 'Bewilderment' After Post-Game 7 Comments
TIMOTHY RAPP
SEPTEMBER 21, 2020

The Los Angeles Clippers' loss to the Denver Nuggets in the NBA Western Conference semifinals was an enormous disappointment on its own. But there may be deeper issues brewing off the court as well.

According to Shams Charania of The Athletic, there was a disconnect between Paul George and his teammates by the end of the season:

"For his part, George had a disappointing series against Denver, and had several moments that left him in compromising positions with his teammates—beyond just his production. Multiple teammates had verbal spats with George throughout the postseason, citing in their exchanges a lack of accountability from him.

"In the postgame locker room Tuesday night, George was preaching to teammates to remain committed, for all the players to return to the team this offseason and stay ready to make another run. It was met by some eye rolls and bewilderment, sources said, because George did not back up his words with action in the series and the team has multiple free agents with decisions to make. George scored 10 points on 4-of-16 shooting and 2-of-11 from 3-point range in the Game 7 defeat."

George was up-and-down in the postseason in general, averaging 20.2 points, 6.1 rebounds and 3.8 assists while shooting just 39.8 percent from the field and 33.3 percent from three.

Those aren't terrible numbers by any stretch, but they also aren't "we gave up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Danilo Gallinari, three first-round picks, two first-round choices and two first-round pick swaps to bring you aboard as the second superstar Kawhi Leonard demanded as a condition of signing here" numbers.

Because George is billed as a star, he's going to be scapegoated to a degree. That comes with the territory. It is fair to point out that he wasn't the only issue at play, however.

Head coach Doc Rivers blamed a lack of cohesion, per Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe:

"You could just see the difference in the two teams; they've been together and we haven't. We didn't meet [expectations]. That's the bottom line. I'm the coach and I'll take any blame for it. If we had [met expectations] in my opinion, we'd still be playing. And although our numbers said we were a good defensive team, I don't think we realized that part of our game at all.

"It was hard to watch because I've got a good group of guys, I really do. Obviously, I could have done something more. I always think it's me, no matter what. I'll look at this and try to figure it out. But it's very disappointing."

Guard Lou Williams called it a lack of chemistry:

"We understood that this was going to take some time. A lot of the issues that we ran into, talent bailed us out, chemistry didn't. In this series, it failed us. This is our first year together. We're a highly talented group and we came up short.

"Chemistry is something you've got to build, and I thought we were moving in the right direction at the end of the year before the COVID thing happened."

And perhaps a team that had multiple players join the bubble late for various reasons never quite got back into game shape:


It was more than just George. No matter how you slice it, it wasn't good enough. But the 30-year-old wasn't good enough, either, and the Clippers' future is tied to him and Leonard living up to expectations and leading them to a title.

Anything less, and the Clippers gave up years of valuable draft assets for nothing.

[Thespiralgoeson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQKZpKYJzg

[Thespiralgoeson]

Paul George, Montrezl Harrell reportedly had ‘heated’ exchange on Clipper bench
By Kurt HelinSep 16, 2020, 3:11 PM EDT

Paul George was the guy who seemed off in the Clippers’ Game 7 loss to Denver — and it’s not just his shot off the side of the backboard or his 2-of-11 shooting from during the game. It was his comments after the game that “this is not a championship-or-bust” season for the Clippers when everyone in the organization, top-to-bottom, had been saying it was. It was his postgame dismissal of the pressure or the need to make changes.

Paul George was making some interesting decisions during the game, too, which led to an exchange with Montrezl Harrell, reports Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports.

Early in the second quarter, a struggling George had committed two careless turnovers in less than a minute. The second mishap was a half-court pass to Harrell, who was near the paint but surrounded by Murray and Michael Porter Jr. Murray picked off the pass…

Harrell approached his teammate about the risky pass, with George not taking responsibility and arguing the pass could have been caught had Harrell made the right play, sources said…

Harrell responded with something along the lines of, “You’re always right. Nobody can tell you nothing,” and expletives were uttered from both players, sources said. George eventually toned down his rhetoric, but a heated Harrell wasn’t having it. Teammates began clapping on the sideline, in part to disguise what was going on and in an attempt to defuse the situation. The incident deescalated shortly after as coach Doc Rivers took his seat to go over the game plan.

Those are the frustrations of a team coming apart in a playoff game, players get on each other and point fingers.

It also points to something Kawhi Leonard said postgame — the Clippers have to play higher IQ basketball. They made too many mental mistakes, had too many lapses. Which is spot on. The lack of chemistry was obvious, and then players just got tight and missed shots. There is plenty of blame to go around for the Clippers — Doc Rivers was slow to make adjustments, sticking with playing Harrell against Jokic, or doubling Jokic, when that was not working. The Clippers thought they could flip the switch, but they had never flipped it before, so it wasn’t something they knew how to do.

Haynes also makes it clear that Rivers will be back next season. That was never in question outside some talking heads trying to be heard. Leonard came to the Clippers in part to play for Rivers, if the Clippers want to keep their best player — and they do — then they don’t dump the coach he likes.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/09/16...clipper-bench/

[BPo001]

Denver giving this game away.18-2 run. Rondo coming up with some big steals.

[BPo001]

Also Reggie Miller is the worst.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Also Reggie Miller is the worst.

He's not great, but in my book Webber is the worst.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

He's not great, but in my book Webber is the worst.

Reggie over Webber all day every day. Cheryl too.

[BPo001]

Murray with the dagger 3.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Mason Plumlee making a case for being the worst player on a good team.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mason Plumlee making a case for being the worst player on a good team.

I was hoping they would go away from playing him after their success with him on the bench last game. He only brings size and screens.

[mac222b]

I think Plumlee must have incriminating photos on Malone. Why does he stick with him? They are better smaller with shooters.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Man, this Lakers-Nuggets series has been crazy intense. 3-1 is really misleading. Murray has been absolutely jaw-dropping through the entire postseason. I can't even count how many incredible shots he made tonight that just had no business going in. He sounded completely devastated in the post-game interview. You could tell he was physically and emotionally drained and gave that game absolutely everything he had. I feel bad for the guy. But he's only 23. He's got a really bright future in the NBA.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Man, this Lakers-Nuggets series has been crazy intense. 3-1 is really misleading. Murray has been absolutely jaw-dropping through the entire postseason. I can't even count how many incredible shots he made tonight that just had no business going in. He sounded completely devastated in the post-game interview. You could tell he was physically and emotionally drained and gave that game absolutely everything he had. I feel bad for the guy. But he's only 23. He's got a really bright future in the NBA.

Yes, the Nuggets are easy to like, and the series has been great. I think both the team and the coach are light on experience relative to their opponent, and that's the difference.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

Yes, the Nuggets are easy to like, and the series has been great. I think both the team and the coach are light on experience relative to their opponent, and that's the difference.

Experience is important, but I honestly just think it's a bad matchup for the Nuggets. The Nuggets really just have no answer for AD, whereas the Lakers have several athletic bigs they can throw at Jokic.

Incidentally, I think the finals ends up being Lakers vs Heat as it appears it will, I think the Heat will be a far tougher matchup for the Lakers than the Nuggets have been. I do pick the Lakers, but it will not be an easy series for them by any stretch. I'll be very surprised if doesn't go at least 6 games, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Heat end up winning the title.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Experience is important, but I honestly just think it's a bad matchup for the Nuggets. The Nuggets really just have no answer for AD, whereas the Lakers have several athletic bigs they can throw at Jokic.

Incidentally, I think the finals ends up being Lakers vs Heat as it appears it will, I think the Heat will be a far tougher matchup for the Lakers than the Nuggets have been. I do pick the Lakers, but it will not be an easy series for them by any stretch. I'll be very surprised if doesn't go at least 6 games, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Heat end up winning the title.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I just can't believe the guy with the most lethal high pick and roll combo in the NBA can't figure out how to punish Vogel for playing McGee/Howard. I also can't believe we aren't seeing more Laker possessions end with Rondo/KCP 3's.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I just can't believe the guy with the most lethal high pick and roll combo in the NBA can't figure out how to punish Vogel for playing McGee/Howard. I also can't believe we aren't seeing more Laker possessions end with Rondo/KCP 3's.

KCP is shooting 39% from 3 this series. That may not be the best result for Denver. I’ve only watched some of this series, but I’ve been seeing Rondo hot his shots from midrange (but I’ll agree that they should be letting Rondo shoot all he wants especially from 3).

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by KillerLeft

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I just can't believe the guy with the most lethal high pick and roll combo in the NBA can't figure out how to punish Vogel for playing McGee/Howard. I also can't believe we aren't seeing more Laker possessions end with Rondo/KCP 3's.

They need to be more decisive on the pnr and run some misdirects. It’s become a little predictable. Also, if they run it at the top of the key it’s harder for Jokic to exploit the mismatch on his end (defenders can run at him as he back down). I’m surprised they aren’t posting Jokic up more and letting him draw fouls/double teams. His great passing has been largely negated. Some of that is the Lakers are a legit good defensive team.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Also, Jokic's lack of athleticism or conditioning or whatever you want to call is finally showing up. After the game the TNT crew pointed out that Jokic has gone scoreless in the 4th quarter the past two games, probably because he's gassed. Unfortunately, I think that will probably always be a problem for him. If he doesn't have good stamina at age 25, even after losing all that weight, he's probably not going to get it later on.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Also, Jokic's lack of athleticism or conditioning or whatever you want to call is finally showing up. After the game the TNT crew pointed out that Jokic has gone scoreless in the 4th quarter the past two games, probably because he's gassed. Unfortunately, I think that will probably always be a problem for him. If he doesn't have good stamina at age 25, even after losing all that weight, he's probably not going to get it later on.

Barkely is the only one worth listening to. Jokic was in foul trouble. He has to guard AD.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Remember that Denver is missing Barton's 15ppg and MPJ is on his way to beasting. They will be the team to beat in the coming years.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Murray has some incredible baskets, but I think a lot of those will soon hit the wall. He has some Luka in him, but Luka uses better footwork versus trying to always make a tough shot go in.

[KillerLeft]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Murray has some incredible baskets, but I think a lot of those will soon hit the wall. He has some Luka in him, but Luka uses better footwork versus trying to always make a tough shot go in.

And Luka makes those great plays look ridiculously easy. Murray is amazing, but makes everyone look so difficult. He won't be able to play like this for very long.

[BPo001]

Anybody else noticed that Lebron looks gassed in the 4th quarter? Think I saw a stat the other day that he was averaging like 6 points in the second half of games.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Anybody else noticed that Lebron looks gassed in the 4th quarter? Think I saw a stat the other day that he was averaging like 6 points in the second half of games.

I was thinking that the exact same thing last night. He looked totally gassed through the second half, until the last couple of minutes, when he really got going on defense. He was constantly settling for long, contested shots, and his shots were consistently short. Couldn't break the defense at all. I mean it makes sense. The dude is going to be 36 in December. Just goes to show the Lakers really need that 3rd option so Lebron doesn't have to carry so much of the offense. Kuzma was supposed to be the guy, but he's just so inconsistent.

[mac222b]

Also, I maintain that Plumlee is just a space filler in this series and they’d be better served using a bigs rotation of Jokic, Grant, Millsap, Porter, Craig. And what happened to PJ Dozier?!