GDT: Mavericks @ Suns, Dec. 6, 9:30 p.m. central - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 12-07-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Is it possible that carlisles great coaching the last couple of years was really Jason Kidd being a coach on the floor? Or at least part of it? Because if you watch this team they look poorly coached and if you watch the Knicks, they look a lot like the old mavs.

I'm not saying that's the case, I don't even think it is. I think Carlisle has been bad this year but it doesn't take away what he's done in the past or what he could do in the future but it is an interesting thought.

Nope.. Just the difference between mediocre players who don't know what they are doing and better players who do.

Five-ofan · 12-07-2012, 11:19 AM

I'm not talking about hitting the threes just the offense in general. Carlisles a great defensive coach without question

Kante · 12-07-2012, 12:24 PM

Was Collison really and good aggressive as i saw his 12 FTA last night?

grndmstr_c · 12-07-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

Was Collison really and good aggressive as i saw his 12 FTA last night?

Four of those free throws were intentional fouls at the end, and two were on a clear path path foul created by a Wright steal, but I did think DC looked as good as I've seen him look in a while in the second half. His half-court aggression and energy were much improved from the clumsy and passive play that's unfortunately become the norm for him. Not sure any of it really shows up on the box-score, but it did catch my eye.

Kante · 12-07-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Four of those free throws were intentional fouls at the end, and two were on a clear path path foul created by a Wright steal, but I did think DC looked as good as I've seen him look in a while in the second half. His half-court aggression and energy were much improved from the clumsy and passive play that's unfortunately become the norm for him. Not sure any of it really shows up on the box-score, but it did catch my eye.

Thanks for the recap!

markus1234 · 12-07-2012, 12:51 PM

Collisnon "improves" vs bad teams and "regresses" vs. good teams.

...do not hold your breath.

dude1394 · 12-07-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus1234

Collisnon "improves" vs bad teams and "regresses" vs. good teams.

...do not hold your breath.

Probably way more truth to this than we want it to be.

j0Shi · 12-07-2012, 12:57 PM

Yeah Wright really killed it in the fourth, also decent defensive. Before that, not so much.

Also thought Collison looked a lot better tonight.

Five-ofan · 12-08-2012, 01:41 AM

Fluid you bring up a valid point about dirk and honestly we have a better record then I thought we would without him. My point about carlisles coaching was entirely eye test which I realize is dangerous.

My problems with Carlisle are 1. Not playing wright 2. Being inconsistent in his message 3. Repeatedly running an iso for Vince when we need a big bucket late

fluid.forty.one · 12-08-2012, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Fluid you bring up a valid point about dirk and honestly we have a better record then I thought we would without him. My point about carlisles coaching was entirely eye test which I realize is dangerous.

My problems with Carlisle are 1. Not playing wright 2. Being inconsistent in his message 3. Repeatedly running an iso for Vince when we need a big bucket late

1. Another thing to keep in mind about Wright is that his success could be precisely because of the limited amount of time he has seen on the floor. It's easy for fans to say "omg that guy should be playing more" and blame the coach, but I'm gonna assume he knows more than I do about the ability and fit of the personnel. Case in point, he was right about Roddy while all of us were freaking out about it.
On a more specific point about Wright.. I know the teams rebounding suffers a lot when he's playing lots of minutes.

2. Agree on this one

3. Speaking of Kidd, here is where we miss him the most. Without Dirk and without Kidd's play making and levelheadedness, we don't have a lot of options down the stretch when the defense tightens up. We all know that he doesn't trust Collison in those situations (yet). Mayo might have been a better option (and Kaman was out), but we all know that Rick loves his vets and Carter has shown that he still has the ability to score.

Murphy3 · 12-08-2012, 09:24 AM

The team could easily be 4-5 games under .500 right now without Dirk.. Props to Carlisle.

Bayliss · 12-08-2012, 10:01 AM

The could also be 11-8 right now too....

dude1394 · 12-08-2012, 12:33 PM

I guess they could be 19-0.

Kante · 12-08-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I guess they could be 19-0.

Sure, they could have been. But they threw away like 3-5 games i think.

Bayliss · 12-08-2012, 01:10 PM

Well..... yhey should have won charlotte and gs game. Hence 11-8.

Kante · 12-08-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well..... yhey should have won charlotte and gs game. Hence 11-8.

I remember also the Philly (6 TO's in a row) game...

fluid.forty.one · 12-08-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well..... yhey should have won charlotte and gs game. Hence 11-8.

And Pop should have won the T-mac 13 points in 33 seconds game. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach. Shit happens and we're almost .500 without Dirk, better than our record with Kidd and Chandler during the championship season.

dude1394 · 12-08-2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

And Pop should have won the T-mac 13 points in 33 seconds game. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach. Shit happens and we're almost .500 without Dirk, better than our record with Kidd and Chandler during the championship season.

IMO this widely repeated stat is pretty ridiculous. We've played one of if not the easiest schedule in the league. The previous games without the dirkster not so much.

Apples and oranges. But a nice job by the boys.

sefant77 · 12-08-2012, 01:41 PM

After 19 games we are better than the Lakers. Is here anyone that would have complained about this at the beginning of the season?

Bayliss · 12-08-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

And Pop should have won the T-mac 13 points in 33 seconds game. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach. Shit happens and we're almost .500 without Dirk, better than our record with Kidd and Chandler during the championship season.

Did Pop bench the Spur who had the highest PER on that team for a month after that T-Mac game?

dude1394 · 12-08-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Did Pop bench the Spur who had the highest PER on that team for a month after that T-Mac game?

Maybe, who was it?

Five-ofan · 12-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Is there anyone here who legitametly believe that Brandon wright isn't outer best pf?(discounting Marion since he's better at sf)

grndmstr_c · 12-08-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Is there anyone here who legitametly believe that Brandon wright isn't outer best pf?(discounting Marion since he's better at sf)

Marion may be better at SF, and he may not be able to play PF as well as he could when he was in his athletic prime, but he's still capable when he's healthy, and Dallas has enough usable depth at SF that they can afford to play him at the 4, so I see no reason to exclude him from the discussion. Taking that into account, where does Brandan rank? Well, he probably shouldn't be ranked higher than EB, but in light of Elton's offensive struggles this year, I agree that it's not a stretch to say that Brandan is, in fact, no worse than the Mavs' 3rd best PF right now.

EricaLubarsky · 12-08-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Marion may be better at SF, and he may not be able to play PF as well as he could when he was in his athletic prime, but he's still capable when he's healthy, and Dallas has enough usable depth at SF that they can afford to play him at the 4, so I see no reason to exclude him from the discussion. Taking that into account, where does Brandan rank? Well, he probably shouldn't be ranked higher than EB, but in light of Elton's offensive struggles this year, I agree that it's not a stretch to say that Brandan is, in fact, no worse than the Mavs' 3rd best PF right now.

So only one guy ahead of Wright with injuries. Two when Dirk gets back.

And until Marion's crotch feels better, that is ZERO.

grndmstr_c · 12-08-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So only one guy ahead of Wright with injuries. Two when Dirk gets back.

And until Marion's crotch feels better, that is ZERO.

And outside of Elton the only other options are a rookie who's been struggling a bit of late, and a couple guys who are clearly better suited either for C or SF. So, congratulations to Brandan for ascending to this lofty perch, I guess.

More seriously, it'll be interesting to see how tonight goes. Asik will easily be the most physical presence on the floor for either team. Under normal circumstances I'd expect his presence to mean fewer minutes for Brandan, with better rebounders getting the call at center, and guys with more range (+ Elton) getting the minutes at PF. With Marion out and Kaman probably < 100%, though, that probably creates an opening for Brandan to show what he can do in minutes he wouldn't normally get. I sincerely hope he makes the most of it.

Five-ofan · 12-08-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Marion may be better at SF, and he may not be able to play PF as well as he could when he was in his athletic prime, but he's still capable when he's healthy, and Dallas has enough usable depth at SF that they can afford to play him at the 4, so I see no reason to exclude him from the discussion. Taking that into account, where does Brandan rank? Well, he probably shouldn't be ranked higher than EB, but in light of Elton's offensive struggles this year, I agree that it's not a stretch to say that Brandan is, in fact, no worse than the Mavs' 3rd best PF right now.

Our useful depth at sf is Vince carter.... That's it. Wrights a better pf than any other sf option we have. And he's been much better than brand this year.

grndmstr_c · 12-08-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Our useful depth at sf is Vince carter.... That's it. Wrights a better pf than any other sf option we have. And he's been much better than brand this year.

Dahntay and Jae are both usable at SF as well, even if Dahntay's usefulness is a bit matchup-dependent and Jae's still a bit of a wild-card. I see no reason that the Mavs can't look for 30+ mpg out of the trio of those two and Vince at SF if they need it, which puts Marion in a position to play 12-20 minutes at PF. At any rate, my only point is that he should be accounted for when assessing the Mavs' PF depth.

And in case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I don't disagree that he's been better than Brand. Still holding out hope that Elton can start to find a groove when Dirk makes it back, though.

Five-ofan · 12-08-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Dahntay and Jae are both usable at SF as well, even if Dahntay's usefulness is a bit matchup-dependent and Jae's still a bit of a wild-card. I see no reason that the Mavs can't look for 30+ mpg out of the trio of those two and Vince at SF if they need it, which puts Marion in a position to play 12-20 minutes at PF. At any rate, my only point is that he should be accounted for when assessing the Mavs' PF depth.

And in case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I don't disagree that he's been better than Brand. Still holding out hope that Elton can start to find a groove when Dirk makes it back, though.

Jae and dahntay have both been absolutely terrible. I realize it's a small sample but so far everyone has a small sample. At this point the optimal minutes for the front court probably looks like this
C-kaman 26, brand 12, sarge 10
Pf-wright 28, Marion 12, brand 8
Sf-Marion 18, Vince 24, jae 6

Obviously you aren't going to be able to play it out perfectly like that but that's what I think we should be shooting for. I think dahntay will have a place once dirk is back but until then I think hes better off on the bench.

Edit-I'm not asking for wright to get 35 minutes a game and honestly when dirk comes back I don't expect him to get 20 mins a game. But until that time, every game he doesn't get 24 minutes barring foul trouble is a mistake by carlisle

LonghornDub · 12-08-2012, 04:06 PM

What, exactly, does it mean to not take Rick Carlisle "seriously"? Like, Rick's got jokes?

Or maybe one day he's going to point at the camera and be all like, "Just kidding fans, I'm not really a coach! Ha! Ha ha! You got burned!" Then maybe he'll throw a potato at somebody's head, drop the mic, and disappear through a smoke-bomb trap-door, leaving only his clownshoes behind.

fluid.forty.one · 12-08-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

What, exactly, does it mean to not take Rick Carlisle "seriously"? Like, Rick's got jokes?

Or maybe one day he's going to point at the camera and be all like, "Just kidding fans, I'm not really a coach! Ha! Ha ha! You got burned!" Then maybe he'll throw a potato at somebody's head, drop the mic, and disappear through a smoke-bomb trap-door, leaving only his clownshoes behind.

So much of this.

chumdawg · 12-08-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

What, exactly, does it mean to not take Rick Carlisle "seriously"? Like, Rick's got jokes?

Or maybe one day he's going to point at the camera and be all like, "Just kidding fans, I'm not really a coach! Ha! Ha ha! You got burned!" Then maybe he'll throw a potato at somebody's head, drop the mic, and disappear through a smoke-bomb trap-door, leaving only his clownshoes behind.

Funny visual.

markus1234 · 12-08-2012, 04:42 PM

They are all usable, but not against elite teams. And i fear there are at least 8 of them in the western conf.