Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Tomorrow we?re all Bulls fans, right?

If they beat Raptors and then Hawks, we go from like an 80% chance of keeping the pick to near 100%

And Nurse is way more likely to become available

I don?t think it matters if Nurse is available. Cuban won?t fire Kidd, unfortunately.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Theres no reason to meet if youre not going to match the knicks number. mavs line was fvv money, that was reported. the knicks number was also reported. Its very easy to relay a message that youre willing to pay market value prior to a meeting.

Once it was clear the mavs werent matching, theres no reason to meet. Cuban has changed his story multiple times, which is why I dont believe him.

Reported where? Where did the Mavs ever draw a line in the sand? It was a basic FA timeline until Brunson shut everything down. Again, the incumbent team said we are at X, you're free to test the market. That's not an ultimatum, take it or leave it. Generally, it's in the player's best interest to at least go back to the team who brought you in to see if there's a counter even higher than the Knicks offer to bump up the end dollars.

Everything that Brunson and his camp did was tilted towards the Knicks. And that's fine! He wanted to be there.

Happy to be proven wrong if the Mavs publicly stated their max offer. I just don't recall that at all.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

I would tend to agree with you, kind of hard to justify giving up a 1st rounder if that's what they thought of his game. Then I read this reply...

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Nico's direct criticism was that Wood was an efficient scorer but there is more to the NBA than that.

Uhh, actually being an efficient scorer exactly what you should be in today's league.

All Nico had to do was say that we needed more defense from the position. But our FO constantly says and does stupid things.

Meanwhile, Bullock takes half the season off and not a peep.

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

Makes me think they really thought they could change Wood or at least make big strides on the defensive part of his game. That was certainly the indication early on but it quickly became apparent he was simply not that type of player.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

Bingo. I'd argue it's simply a wasted asset because who is to say the Mavs make the pick? They could have easily used it in a more beneficial trade. That's waste.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

Bingo. I'd argue it's simply a wasted asset because who is to say the Mavs make the pick? They could have easily used it in a more beneficial trade. That's waste.

It's really easy in hindsight, though. I'm not sure at the time it was as easy. We are devoid of talent. We needed talent. We saw a potential star for a low first-rounder that ended up being a bust. Could we have drafted better or gotten more with that? It's hard to tell.

It does sound like after we realized he wasn't going to be that guy, we tried to get something-- anything -- for him at the TDL and no one wanted him. I assume that means that we will be unable to get any value in a SnT.

But yeah, we traded something (even if it was a small something) for a lottery ticket that wasn't a winner and then we haven't been able to flip that losing lottery ticket into something else so we ended up down assets-- which wouldn't be the worst, but we have a huge history of wasting assets. The real crime isn't Wood-- it's the laundry list of times we have given up talent or assets for nothing.

Drafted Brunson, let him walk (not even SnT)
Traded for Wood, (probably) let him walk (probably not even a SnT)
Traded for KP then traded assets to get rid of KP
Traded assets for Reddick. Let him walk for nothing.
Traded for Richardson. Then traded him for Moses. Then waived Moses. Ended up with nothing.

Trade for Kyrie (and then let him walk?)
Traded for Luka (and then let him walk?)

[saclare]

Of course it's all hindsight, I get that. I'm just saying it's not as clear cut as saying ehhhh it ended up being Wendell Moore so not that big of a deal.

And I liked and understood the Wood trade. But it is a waste of a first round pick, swing and miss on Nico and Co. He needs to be called out next time that it was under his management that the move was made, so why the comments now? Force him to admit they got it wrong. Sometimes our beats can be too kind.

[Dtownsfinest]

Just watching 4 teams?not even good teams but four teams fighting to get into the playoffs? It?s clear the Mavs have talent issues. Hawks, Heat, Lakers and Twolves have guys that can start for us right now sitting on their bench.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Just watching 4 teams?not even good teams but four teams fighting to get into the playoffs? It?s clear the Mavs have talent issues. Hawks, Heat, Lakers and Twolves have guys that can start for us right now sitting on their bench.

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

I cannot see Hendricks making it to 10. That would be a a miracle IMO.

But hey, I never though Hardy would be available at 37, so what do I know?

[EricaLubarsky]

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

[ShaggyDirk]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

Speaking of... This feels like an alternate universe

DM +/- for 22/23 Season

Powell: +166
THJ: +160
Luka: +128
Kyrie: +96
Josh: +76
Ntilikina: +35
Morris: -20
Hardy: -32
Bertans: -37
C-Wood: -43
Kleber: -43
Pinson: -50
McGee: -57
Holiday: -63
Bullock: -88
Wright IV: -110

I understand how this is possible but it still is hilarious considering how much I want Powell off the dang court.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Speaking of... This feels like an alternate universe

DM +/- for 22/23 Season

Powell: +166
THJ: +160
Luka: +128
Kyrie: +96
Josh: +76
Ntilikina: +35
Morris: -20
Hardy: -32
Bertans: -37
C-Wood: -43
Kleber: -43
Pinson: -50
McGee: -57
Holiday: -63
Bullock: -88
Wright IV: -110

I understand how this is possible but it still is hilarious considering how much I want Powell off the dang court.

You can find a stat to back up anything. I mean, Frank Ntilkina a +35 is equally silly.

And Wright a -110? I don't even know what that means.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You can find a stat to back up anything. I mean, Frank Ntilkina a +35 is equally silly.

And Wright a -110? I don't even know what that means.

Much more to do with who they share the court with than their individual contributions, is all. It's why +/- is a near useless stat.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

?I think Dwight [Powell] will be back on a minimum, to be honest with you.? - Tim MacMahon

Prepare for it. But we better pray it's in the correct role as a reserve big man with much more limited minutes.

I honestly wouldn't mind Powell back at all IF the above is the plan.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

Prepare for it. But we better pray it's in the correct role as a reserve big man with much more limited minutes.

I honestly wouldn't mind Powell back at all IF the above is the plan.

Yeah it's hard to hate the guy. He's lovable. He's hardworking. Every 2-3 games he has 10-20 really dominant minutes. He takes a lot more flack than he deserves when the fault is really on Nico/Cuban for not putting a good frontcourt out there and Kidd for bad rotations.

My only concern would be that we re-sign him and then totally blow the offseason so he starts and plays 30mpg or we do get some frontcourt guys and Kidd ignores them like Morris, Wood, and others.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Honestly feel like assuming we don't get bumped to 11th, we have a clear path to two great bigs.

Walker if we somehow get a 2-4
Hendricks if we end up 10th

Both are two-way guys who can defend and rebound.

Is Hendricks really a 2 way player? Looks closer to Wood but I've only seen a few games and some highlights. I think his potential and mobility make him a top 7 or 8 pick.

We probably need to be looking at that next tier.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Is Hendricks really a 2 way player? Looks closer to Wood but I've only seen a few games and some highlights. I think his potential and mobility make him a top 7 or 8 pick.

We probably need to be looking at that next tier.

He's basically Wood with better defense but the comparison isn't far off.

Really sucks this draft isn't like last year with big men. Duren, Williams, Kessler...ugh.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

He's basically Wood with better defense but the comparison isn't far off.

Really sucks this draft isn't like last year with big men. Duren, Williams, Kessler...ugh.

If wood could play team defense, he?d be perfect here.

Wood but with defense and coachability is honestly all we need, though.

Team defense and IQ are why Wood didn?t play here even though he was a hell of a scorer and a decent rebounder.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by saclare

Reported where? Where did the Mavs ever draw a line in the sand? It was a basic FA timeline until Brunson shut everything down. Again, the incumbent team said we are at X, you're free to test the market. That's not an ultimatum, take it or leave it. Generally, it's in the player's best interest to at least go back to the team who brought you in to see if there's a counter even higher than the Knicks offer to bump up the end dollars.

Everything that Brunson and his camp did was tilted towards the Knicks. And that's fine! He wanted to be there.

Happy to be proven wrong if the Mavs publicly stated their max offer. I just don't recall that at all.

McMahon and Marks were reporting from sources multiple times the Mavs org viewed Brunson at FVV money 5/105, this was before and after Brunson signed with New York. McMahon even brought it up again last week on the hoop collective.

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

Now I know you?re going to disregard this because Mavs didn?t ?publicly state?, we that?s not something teams do when in negotiations. It comes out through sources just like the Wood fiasco.

I?m glad he?s in New York doing well away from this clown car front office. But he could?ve been resigned if Cuban ?we can pay more than any team? wanted to match the Knicks number.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which just goes into the Wood debate. We needed talent, especially in the big man department.

Why they didn't utilize that correctly is still beyond me.

Problem is wondering now how they are going to realistically fix that though. No cap space, few assets with value.

There?s no justification to why they did that to Wood especially when they need talent. There?s no insensitive for him to sign here.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If wood could play team defense, he?d be perfect here.

Wood but with defense and coachability is honestly all we need, though.

Team defense and IQ are why Wood didn?t play here even though he was a hell of a scorer and a decent rebounder.

Powell?s defense isn?t as good for him to see any minutes. They screwed Wood the minute he got here that?s how you lose players.

[tap2390]

I hate to be a debbie downer, but honestly the trail of mismanagement beginning with the KP trade might be too much to overcome. OKC is young and hungry and arguably better than us not considering the assets they?ve amassed (and have Chet coming back). If Harden and Wemby end up on the Rockets you can kiss playoffs goodbye next year too.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I hate to be a debbie downer, but honestly the trail of mismanagement beginning with the KP trade might be too much to overcome. OKC is young and hungry and arguably better than us not considering the assets they?ve amassed (and have Chet coming back). If Harden and Wemby end up on the Rockets you can kiss playoffs goodbye next year too.

There's really no reason to believe the Mavs can right the ship, but like my dad going out for beer, I still hope he eventually comes back home.

We're going to find out what Luka is about this offseason. Because everyone in the media is coming down hard on him. I think he will grind.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I hate to be a debbie downer, but honestly the trail of mismanagement beginning with the KP trade might be too much to overcome. OKC is young and hungry and arguably better than us not considering the assets they?ve amassed (and have Chet coming back). If Harden and Wemby end up on the Rockets you can kiss playoffs goodbye next year too.

They are years away themselves...What's suppose to put us in front of teams like OKC is Luka. When you have a Luka that puts you at a level some teams can't even grasp. Now don't get me wrong...this team has a lot to do.

But the league is wide open right now. No one is a favorite. This is perfect for the Mavs. OKC has all the potential in the world but its not the first time. Hell Durant, Westbrook and Harden had potential. Roy, Aldridge, Oden had potential....still have to fill fit.

The KP trade to me isn't really a issue. Maybe DSJ himself was the issue and had we went a different route maybe we would be in a different spot. Hell maybe we don't even have Luka. Just never know.

[tap2390]

That's a good perspective. I agree young promise doesn't always pan out, and having a guy like Luka is crucial to success in the NBA.

[tap2390]

One thing I will add is that I am not convinced that Luka will be better than SGA next season.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

That's a good perspective. I agree young promise doesn't always pan out, and having a guy like Luka is crucial to success in the NBA.

Yep. But I get your point as well. We can?t just sssume just because we are the Mavs that we will be good. West is incredibly deep and while Spurs, Rockets, etc stink?..they?ve stunk for so long they are just building with young talent?.this can get ugly fast.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by tap2390

One thing I will add is that I am not convinced that Luka will be better than SGA next season.

Nah?..I?m not so sure either. If he is better?I honestly don?t see that big of a gap between Luka and these other young stars. Especially since guys like ANT and SGA can play both sides of the ball which makes it easier to build around them.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by tap2390

One thing I will add is that I am not convinced that Luka will be better than SGA next season.

Luka is better when he's fully engaged

But I will say in late game situations I like the mentality of SGA and D.Fox much better than Luka

Those two dudes don't settle for as many 3's as Luka does latein Games

They always looking to attack the rim 1st keeping pressure on the defense

Luka imo tends to let the defense off the hook so often with step back 3's late I. Games

There were plenty of games and situations this year where I felt Luka could have gotten and taken smarter shots but way too often he would be too quick to just launch a 3

For the life of me I'm not sure why the mavs haven't primarily used Luka out of the post more to close out games. Dude is bigger and stringer than most defenders that he should be dominating late in Games inside especially with kyrie here.

It would stop the mavs from having wasted possessions down the stretch because they wouldn't be jacking up so many bad 3's in the 4th qtr if they played inside out with Luka as the post man

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by saclare

Reported where? Where did the Mavs ever draw a line in the sand? It was a basic FA timeline until Brunson shut everything down. Again, the incumbent team said we are at X, you're free to test the market. That's not an ultimatum, take it or leave it. Generally, it's in the player's best interest to at least go back to the team who brought you in to see if there's a counter even higher than the Knicks offer to bump up the end dollars.

Everything that Brunson and his camp did was tilted towards the Knicks. And that's fine! He wanted to be there.

Happy to be proven wrong if the Mavs publicly stated their max offer. I just don't recall that at all.

The Mavs screwed it up on draft day 2018. They could have offered him the normal 3 year 2nd round deal with restricted 4th year. Instead they did the 4 year unrestricted deal for cuteness. This wouldn't have been a thing had they gave him the proper deal in the first place. But there are plenty of other FO mistakes to worry about at this point, right?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Luka is better when he's fully engaged

But I will say in late game situations I like the mentality of SGA and D.Fox much better than Luka

Those two dudes don't settle for as many 3's as Luka does latein Games

They always looking to attack the rim 1st keeping pressure on the defense

Luka imo tends to let the defense off the hook so often with step back 3's late I. Games

There were plenty of games and situations this year where I felt Luka could have gotten and taken smarter shots but way too often he would be too quick to just launch a 3

For the life of me I'm not sure why the mavs haven't primarily used Luka out of the post more to close out games. Dude is bigger and stringer than most defenders that he should be dominating late in Games inside especially with kyrie here.

It would stop the mavs from having wasted possessions down the stretch because they wouldn't be jacking up so many bad 3's in the 4th qtr if they played inside out with Luka as the post man

There is a little Recency bias based on the 2nd half of this year. Before this year Luka was perceived league wide as a clutch shot killer. On the glass half full side there is the thought the Mavs will be better next year with just a reversion to the mean in clutch time.

Definition
Recency bias is the tendency to overemphasize the importance of recent experiences or the latest information we possess when estimating future events. Recency bias often misleads us to believe that recent events can give us an indication of how the future will unfold.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Zeus

The Mavs screwed it up on draft day 2018. They could have offered him the normal 3 year 2nd round deal with restricted 4th year. Instead they did the 4 year unrestricted deal for cuteness. This wouldn't have been a thing had they gave him the proper deal in the first place. But there are plenty of other FO mistakes to worry about at this point, right?

Absolutely right and I think one of the more underrated things that got Donnie fired. In what world does it make sense to do a less than 4 year deal? It's not like those 2nd round guys cripple the cap.

One's the Mavs FO can control (to a degree) now? Yes, and that is what I hope will be the focus here as we turn to the draft and/or FA.

[saclare]

Y'all are spoiled rotten having Luka on your team. He's on a whole tier or two above SGA, Anthony Edwards, Fox, etc.

Wow...

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Luka is better when he's fully engaged

But I will say in late game situations I like the mentality of SGA and D.Fox much better than Luka

Those two dudes don't settle for as many 3's as Luka does latein Games

They always looking to attack the rim 1st keeping pressure on the defense

Luka imo tends to let the defense off the hook so often with step back 3's late I. Games

There were plenty of games and situations this year where I felt Luka could have gotten and taken smarter shots but way too often he would be too quick to just launch a 3

For the life of me I'm not sure why the mavs haven't primarily used Luka out of the post more to close out games. Dude is bigger and stringer than most defenders that he should be dominating late in Games inside especially with kyrie here.

It would stop the mavs from having wasted possessions down the stretch because they wouldn't be jacking up so many bad 3's in the 4th qtr if they played inside out with Luka as the post man

I'm sayin.

Luka on the block with Kyrie ball handling should be late game option #1. The Kyrie on the corner and Luka ball handling up top is a bad scheme.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by saclare

Y'all are spoiled rotten having Luka on your team. He's on a whole tier or two above SGA, Anthony Edwards, Fox, etc.

Wow...

He's multiple tiers above Anthony Edwards, but SGA and Fox can hold their own, obviously neither have had the success Luka has had, but the skill is there.

Luka should still be first team all nba, its amazing watching voters pretzel themselves into making Luka 2nd team.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Luka is better when he's fully engaged

But I will say in late game situations I like the mentality of SGA and D.Fox much better than Luka

Those two dudes don't settle for as many 3's as Luka does latein Games

They always looking to attack the rim 1st keeping pressure on the defense

Luka imo tends to let the defense off the hook so often with step back 3's late I. Games

There were plenty of games and situations this year where I felt Luka could have gotten and taken smarter shots but way too often he would be too quick to just launch a 3

For the life of me I'm not sure why the mavs haven't primarily used Luka out of the post more to close out games. Dude is bigger and stringer than most defenders that he should be dominating late in Games inside especially with kyrie here.

It would stop the mavs from having wasted possessions down the stretch because they wouldn't be jacking up so many bad 3's in the 4th qtr if they played inside out with Luka as the post man

I want Nurse if available, someone I would trust to get the best out of players and put them in the position to be successful. Whoever FA the mavs get in the offseason will have to overcome the lack of coaching to go anywhere in the western conference.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by saclare

Much more to do with who they share the court with than their individual contributions, is all. It's why +/- is a near useless stat.

Totally agree. Unless they start playing one on one, basketball will always be multivariate so as you say +/- not necessarily indicative of impact.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

He's multiple tiers above Anthony Edwards, but SGA and Fox can hold their own, obviously neither have had the success Luka has had, but the skill is there.

Luka should still be first team all nba, its amazing watching voters pretzel themselves into making Luka 2nd team.

He will almost certainly be 2nd team this year. I have heard too many guys that actually have votes say they have him on their 2nd team. They are holding the team failure against him no doubt while still recognizing he is a top 5 player that will be punished to 2nd team because of team outcome.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Zeus

He will almost certainly be 2nd team this year. I have heard too many guys that actually have votes say they have him on their 2nd team. They are holding the team failure against him no doubt while still recognizing he is a top 5 player that will be punished to 2nd team because of team outcome.

Which is a very foolish way to look at an individual award lol