Opinion:"Dallas Mavericks: Time To Let Dirk Go" - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 08:16 PM

I know that this probably isn't going to be a very popular thread, but I still thought I'd share and see what you guys think.

I have copied and pasted the article to the site to prevent you from having to leave the forum to view it, but if you like what you read, please visit the link below. It helps my writer rankings (I know, pretty dorky to worry about my internet writing status, right?! haha)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...k-go/show_full

Quote:

Dallas Mavericks: Time To Let Dirk Go

In the midst of what has now turned into a four game losing skid, one ugly truth has become more apparent than ever.

Despite Jason Terry arguably playing the best ball of his career, Jason Kidd exceeding all of his critics' expectations, and Dirk Nowitzki continuing to play like...well, like Dirk Nowitzki; these Dallas Mavericks are not good enough to contend for an NBA title.

In fact, they are barely good enough to contend for a playoff spot.

With just under half of the '08-'09 season completed, the Mavs have a mediocre 22-17 record. They are sitting at fourth place in the Southwest Conference and ninth place overall in the Western Conference, just one spot out of playoff contention.

Ordinarily, it would be premature, and even pessimistic, to suggest that it is time to blowup a team that is still very much in the thick of things. However, the Dallas Mavericks are not your ordinary team.

Just three years ago, the Dallas Mavericks finally emerged as one of the NBA's elite teams by knocking off the San Antonio Spurs and Phoenix Suns en-route to the franchise's first ever NBA Finals appearance.

Despite giving up a 2-0 series lead and ultimately falling to the Miami Heat in heart breaking fashion, the Mavericks gave their fans reason to hope for the future.

Two years ago, the Mavericks picked themselves up off the mat and took the NBA by storm. In a season that saw the Mavs win 67 games, good for the one-seed in the Western Conference and the overall best record in the NBA, it looked as if nobody could stop the Mavericks in their fight for redemption.

As luck would have it, however, the only team to own a regular season winning record over the Mavs that year, the Golden State Warriors, was the same team to draw the eight-seed in the West. They became the first ever eight-seed to knock off a one-seed in a seven-game series, and the Mavericks once again ended their season in heartbreak.

One year ago, after a disappointing first half of the season, the Mavericks made what may go down as one of the most infamous trades in NBA history. The Mavericks, in return for Jason Kidd, Malik Allen and Antoine Wright, sent Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Trenton Hassell, Maurice Ager, Van Horn via sign-and-trade, two first-round draft picks and $3 million in cash to the New Jersey Nets.

It was a trade that could only be considered a success if the Mavericks won, and won now. One year later, despite Jason Kidd's superb play, the trade is a disaster.

The Mavericks are floundering. Devin Harris is almost assured his first all-star selection and looks to be one of the great up-and-coming point guards in the league. Perhaps most disconcerting, with a lack of draft picks and few attractive tradable parts, the Mavericks have almost no way of building around their current team's nucleus.

This leaves the Mavs with only two real viable options:

The first and easiest option is to stand pat. The Mavs can stick with their current roster in hopes that something suddenly changes within the organization. More than likely, the Mavs will continue to be a good, but not great, team. They will win some big games, lose some big games, and will likely squeak their way into the playoffs, where they will win at most one series.

The second option is harder. It is by far the more painful road. However, it is also the road that is not only best for the team, but best for everyone involved.

It is time for the Dallas Mavericks to trade Dirk Nowitzki before it's too late.

For any Mavs' fan, this is the last thing that they would want to do, but it is the only thing that makes sense. He is the only name on the Mavericks that has enough trade value to help this team's long term success.

Jason Terry is a great player, but he is a role player. Jason Kidd is getting up in years, and although he has performed better with the Mavericks than anyone could have ever hoped, there will always be the question about how much longer he can keep it up. Josh Howard has done just about everything he can in the past year to hurt his trade value.

What the Mavs need is good, young players to start building on the next era of Dallas Mavericks basketball. The only player on this current roster that will be able to help the Mavs get what they need is Dirk Nowitzki.

Perhaps more importantly than all of that, however, is the future success of Dirk Nowitzki. One of the hardest workers in the league, a great teammate and a leader by example, and one of the most revolutionary players ever to enter the league, it is hard to argue that anyone deserves to become an NBA Champion more than Dirk does.

It has become apparent that he will not win one with Dallas. This team's window has shut, and has probably been shut for some time now.

So trade Dirk to a contender, and let him win a title. Bring in some younger players and try to build this thing back up. It is the best thing for the team, the best thing for Dirk, and though initially painful for the Dallas Mavericks' fans, it is the best thing for them as well.

It is time to let Dirk go.

MainEv3nt · 01-15-2009, 08:18 PM

cuban won't let em go lol.

bobatundi · 01-15-2009, 08:37 PM

A. Correct use of semicolons and apostrophes might also help your writer rankings
B. Kidd and Stackhouse both have trade value because of their contracts
C. Trading Dirk would probably cost the Mavs whatever fans they have left

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

A. Correct use of semicolons and apostrophes might also help your writer rankings
B. Kidd and Stackhouse both have trade value because of their contracts
C. Trading Dirk would probably cost the Mavs whatever fans they have left

A. No need to be a dick. I am not a grammar wiz, and there are editors on the website that take care of that stuff for me

B. I think our trade for Kidd is evidence enough that, while Kidd is a great player, he is not worth giving up much for. I love Stack, but are you really going to argue that he has enough trade value to turn this thing around??? I'm not.

C. If the fans leave over one player being traded, then they weren't real fans in the first place. I would be sad, no doubt. But I would still be a Mavs fan. I would just have to start rooting for Dirk's new team as well.

twelli · 01-15-2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

C. Trading Dirk would probably cost the Mavs whatever fans they have left

Depends on what they get in return. I would seriously explore all options regarding a Dirk trade.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

Depends on what they get in return. I would seriously explore all options regarding a Dirk trade.

Agreed. Dirk is too valuable to just throw away for nothing, but it would be irresponsible at this point to not atleast explore what is available.

alby · 01-15-2009, 08:49 PM

I don't want to be the T-wolves. No thanks on trading the franchise player.

mavsjunkie · 01-17-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

I don't want to be the T-wolves. No thanks on trading the franchise player.

It's obvious that some folks would rather lose with their favorite player than to win by sacrificing that player.

This attitude is the reason we are the Mavs. We will never win the big one.

dalmations202 · 01-17-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

It's obvious that some folks would rather lose with their favorite player than to win by sacrificing that player.

This attitude is the reason we are the Mavs. We will never win the big one.

Win.......History doesn't support you there.

How many titles have been won by the Milwaukee Bucks since they traded off Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor, Jr.?

How long did it take for the Boston Red Sox to win a title after they got rid of Babe Ruth?

Getting rid of a superstar usually works for the team getting the superstar, not the team losing them.

Shaq leaves and all of a sudden Miami is good, but LA is avg. LA trades for another superstar, and they are good again. Boston keeps the superstar they have and add a couple and they are champs. Minn traded theirs off for potential, and they are 14 games below .500 today. Shaq is a shell of the superstar he once was, but he leaves Miami and even with a superstar in DWade, they are only 4 games over .500.

No, not wanting to lose a superstar is not a losing a favorite player to win, it is a losing a favorite player so you can spend the next decade looking for another superstar that will get you up to mediocre. I'd just as soon not sacrifice the superstar (at least not until you have found your next one).

Underdog · 01-17-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Win.......History doesn't support you there.

How many titles have been won by the Milwaukee Bucks since they traded off Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor, Jr.?

How long did it take for the Boston Red Sox to win a title after they got rid of Babe Ruth?

Getting rid of a superstar usually works for the team getting the superstar, not the team losing them.

Shaq leaves and all of a sudden Miami is good, but LA is avg. LA trades for another superstar, and they are good again. Boston keeps the superstar they have and add a couple and they are champs. Minn traded theirs off for potential, and they are 14 games below .500 today. Shaq is a shell of the superstar he once was, but he leaves Miami and even with a superstar in DWade, they are only 4 games over .500.

No, not wanting to lose a superstar is not a losing a favorite player to win, it is a losing a favorite player so you can spend the next decade looking for another superstar that will get you up to mediocre. I'd just as soon not sacrifice the superstar (at least not until you have found your next one).

This post should go down as one of the all-time greatest on this site...

alby · 01-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

It's obvious that some folks would rather lose with their favorite player than to win by sacrificing that player.

This attitude is the reason we are the Mavs. We will never win the big one.

seriously?

dude1394 · 01-17-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

It's obvious that some folks would rather lose with their favorite player than to win by sacrificing that player.

This attitude is the reason we are the Mavs. We will never win the big one.

Ah so many posts...so many bad rep points to give out. Although if the team traded dirk I would probably be a very po'd fan... The arguments made for trading him are superficial at best.

We'll trade him and "hope" that we don't end up like every other club that has traded their superstar. So let's do it!!!

The argument lacks facts and a grasp of reality. It also disses about the only guy on the mavs team worth keeping by suggesting that he cannot be built around.

dude1394 · 01-17-2009, 02:17 PM

Ouch

Quote:

With Josh Howard inconsistent in his presence and his production, and absolutely zero impact from two front-line players they were heavily counting on - Jerry Stackhouse and DeSagana Diop - the Mavs have come to this: Most night it's Dirk Nowitzki starting alongside four other guys whose combined average points to add up to his.

basketballgirl25 · 01-17-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsjunkie

It's obvious that some folks would rather lose with their favorite player than to win by sacrificing that player.

This attitude is the reason we are the Mavs. We will never win the big one.

I think you kind of right, sometimes you gotta give to get. Mavs shouldn't trade him, but put him on the block and see what kind of deals are out there

fluid.forty.one · 01-17-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

EDITED OUT SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE HER ON IGNORE DON'T HAVE TO READ THIS

I'm so happy that I've spread enough reputation around to be able to negatively rep this post.

basketballgirl25 · 01-17-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I'm so happy that I've spread enough reputation around to be able to negatively rep this post.

I'm just saying, if they aren't winning with him and can't find trades to get better to win, wouldn't you want to try to trade him for some young players for the future? All teams go through rebuilding at some point it would be better for the mavs to get something for him if they don't do anything by 2010, if they do by all means they should keep him.

Thomas86 · 01-15-2009, 08:52 PM

I remember Cuban saying he didn't care how bad it got that he wouldn't trade Dirk, the Mavs can get alot of young players to build around with Kidd's huge contract, on top of that does anybody think Cuban is gonna trade Dirk when he's still getting bashed for trading Devin?....the only way I see Dirk leaving Dallas is own terms.

Kidd, Howard, Stack, Bass and Diop could bring us something back good to build around.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

I remember Cuban saying he didn't care how bad it got that he wouldn't trade Dirk, the Mavs can get alot of young players to build around with Kidd's huge contract, on top of that does anybody think Cuban is gonna trade Dirk when he's still getting bashed for trading Devin?....the only way I see Dirk leaving Dallas is own terms.

Kidd, Howard, Stack, Bass and Diop could bring us something back good to build around.

Wouldn't that be a shame? The fact of the matter is there isn't a whole lot of other ways to build this team. We don't have draft picks and we don't have sexy tradable parts that will get us the draft picks or good young talent that we need to turn this thing around.

I could see Dirk sticking with us no matter how bad things get, but I also wouldn't fault him one bit for leaving when his contract is up.

I hope I am wrong, and I sincerely hope that Dirk can stay AND we can be contenders, but there are two things I really really want:

1) The Mavs to win an NBA title
2) Dirk to win an NBA title.

If those two things have to be done separately, then so be it.

aquaadverse · 01-15-2009, 08:59 PM

A different GM seems to be in order. Not real sure what's going on there, but considering the needs the bench seems a bit disjointed

GermanDunk · 01-15-2009, 09:05 PM

2060 : Dirk telling JJB how to drive...

Janett_Reno · 01-15-2009, 09:05 PM

I don't think we will stand pat. I believe Stack and Diop is gone but no they won't bring much but even if we can get a better bench will be good. Just maybe they will shop Kidd and see if it is any takers but i think the big door prize is Josh Howard being shopped around for a good player comming back. If Cuban screws the pooch on Howard or get's nothing much for Kidd, then Dirk might ask to be traded.

This team has no physical paint players on offense. They also have no one that can penetrate in half court. We all might be surprised if you put the right players around Dirk and Terry. I would be shocked if they deal Dirk right off.

purplefrog · 01-15-2009, 09:33 PM

excuse me but I'm feeling a bit ill.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

excuse me but I'm feeling a bit ill.

you and me both dude... Its a terrifying topic to even discuss, but at the same time, I think it is time that this discussion is actually becoming relevant.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 01-15-2009, 09:32 PM

There's very limited options on trading Dirk. Dirk wont get us Lebron, Kobe or Dwight Howard. He would possibly land us Amare Stodemire and that would be interesting. Dirk gets the reunite with Nash he'd be happy with that. Or maybe a Carlos Boozer. Give us that true power forward that we need.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

There's very limited options on trading Dirk. Dirk wont get us Lebron, Kobe or Dwight Howard. He would possibly land us Amare Stodemire and that would be interesting. Dirk gets the reunite with Nash he'd be happy with that. Or maybe a Carlos Boozer. Give us that true power forward that we need.

I would not be interested in trading Dirk for a single star player. None of those trades would be worth it to me. If we were to trade Dirk, it would be an acknowledgment that we are going back to rebuilding. Therefore, I would only pull the trigger if we could get some solid young players that still have not reached their maximum potential in addition to draft picks.

By having young guys with smaller salaries, it would also help us to be bigger players in future free agents. It is definitely a longer and harder road than standing pat, but at this point in time, it may be what this franchise needs to do

erdubya · 01-16-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

There's very limited options on trading Dirk. Dirk wont get us Lebron, Kobe or Dwight Howard. He would possibly land us Amare Stodemire and that would be interesting. Dirk gets the reunite with Nash he'd be happy with that. Or maybe a Carlos Boozer. Give us that true power forward that we need.

Does Amare have any kind of post up game? or is he just a big slasher?

Dirk in Phoenix though? That definitely puts Phoenix in the elite and improves us only a little.

Underdog · 01-16-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdubya

Does Amare have any kind of post up game? or is he just a big slasher?

Dirk in Phoenix though? That definitely puts Phoenix in the elite and improves us only a little.

I don't see how that improves us at all (but I agree about Phoenix becoming elite...)

Underdog · 01-15-2009, 09:44 PM

The title of this thread leads one to believe that the Mavs intend to trade Dirk...

(whereas the truth is that it's just some random douchebag's opinion of what the Mavs should do with this franchise!)

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The title of this thread leads one to believe that the Mavs intend to trade Dirk...

(whereas the truth is that it's just some random douchebag's opinion of what the Mavs should do with this franchise!)

If you read the title and interpreted it as the Mavs intend to trade Dirk, then I can't help you. I didn't say "Mavs to trade Dirk" or "Cuban exploring options of moving Dirk". Those titles would have portrayed that message. The title for my piece is pretty obviously an opinion piece.

And what is with the personal attacks? I (AKA "douchebag") have just as much right to voice my opinion of what the Mavs do with the franchise as anyone else. Have you never made a statement of opinion in regards to the Mavs and shared it on this forum?

I posted this as a means to start an intelligent discussion and debate about the directions this franchise should talk, not so that I could get into a childish round-about of smack talk.

Its posts like yours that remind me why I spend more time on the Bleacher Report website than on forums nowadays. More intelligent and logical sports talk and less mindless insults and smack talk. Grow up!

Underdog · 01-15-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo98564

If you read the title and interpreted it as the Mavs intend to trade Dirk, then I can't help you. I didn't say "Mavs to trade Dirk" or "Cuban exploring options of moving Dirk". Those titles would have portrayed that message. The title for my piece is pretty obviously an opinion piece

How is "Dallas Mavericks: Time To Let Dirk Go" obviously an opinion piece???

That sure as sh!t sounds like "Mavs to trade Dirk"...

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

How is "Dallas Mavericks: Time To Let Dirk Go" obviously an opinion piece???

That sure as sh!t sounds like "Mavs to trade Dirk"...

I am sorry you have poor reading comprehension... You're the first person who has thought so...

I can certainly say it was not my intention to mislead. I have no problem with criticism, but I also don't see any need for the personal attacks just because I might have a different take on things than you do.

Underdog · 01-15-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo98564

I am sorry you have poor reading comprehension... You're the first person who has thought so...

I can certainly say it was not my intention to mislead. I have no problem with criticism, but I also don't see any need for the personal attacks just because I might have a different take on things than you do.

Defensive some?

You're just pissed because I called the author of this article a "douchebag" without realizing that you were the author...

I stand by it...

bobatundi · 01-16-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo98564

I am sorry you have poor reading comprehension... You're the first person who has thought so...

I can certainly say it was not my intention to mislead. I have no problem with criticism, but I also don't see any need for the personal attacks just because I might have a different take on things than you do.

You "have no problem with criticism," but when I point out that you might need to clean up your grammar if you want to have better "writer rankings" you call me a dick? Sounds like a douchebag who can't take criticism at all.

Please spare us all the "I didn't go to school for journalism" crap. There's no excuse for having such a weak understanding of your own native tongue, it's something you've been taught since you were two years old.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-15-2009, 09:46 PM

I have to wonder what the Mavs could get back for Dirk at this point.

twelli · 01-15-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I have to wonder what the Mavs could get back for Dirk at this point.

You want a younger top ten player with room for improvement who can lead a team to a championship.

I am not sure about Amare any more. Maybe too injury prone?

Dirk would NEVER go to Utah and Boozer is good and all but not in Dirk's league.

Carmello might be an option, cause he's younger and has yet to reach his prime. But you would trade away a likeable role model for, well, Carmello...

Bosh might be a good trade.

How about Oden? If Portland would be championship contenders with Dirk straight away, maybe.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twelli

You want a younger top ten player with room for improvement who can lead a team to a championship.

I am not sure about Amare any more. Maybe too injury prone?

Dirk would NEVER go to Utah and Boozer is good and all but not in Dirk's league.

Carmello might be an option, cause he's younger and has yet to reach his prime. But you would trade away a likeable role model for, well, Carmello...

Bosh might be a good trade.

How about Oden? If Portland would be championship contenders with Dirk straight away, maybe.

I agree with this post completely. I certainly wouldn't have any interest in Carmello, but Oden is an interesting thought.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 10:24 PM

Underdog:

I also find it funny that you chose to actually reply with your thoughts on the thread topic in your neg-rep to me, but saved your insults for inside the thread... I thought it was supposed to be the other way around haha

Silk Smoov · 01-15-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo98564

Underdog:

I also find it funny that you chose to actually reply with your thoughts on the thread topic in your neg-rep to me, but saved your insults for inside the thread... I thought it was supposed to be the other way around haha

He did me the same way today, while calling me a bitch in the negative rep comments, which is suppose to be an automatic ban for his comments like that. Guys like that are the same ones who walk around with black eyes all the time telling people that he got drunk and started a fight. Real reason is that his little smart mouth got his ass smashed while being perfectly sober.

robo98564 · 01-15-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

He did me the same way today, while calling me a bitch in the negative rep comments, which is suppose to be an automatic ban for his comments like that. Guys like that are the same ones who walk around with black eyes all the time telling people that he got drunk and started a fight. Real reason is that his little smart mouth got his ass smashed while being perfectly sober.

No room for disagreement in internet forums... You either agree with me or your an idiot!! Haha

Underdog · 01-16-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

He did me the same way today, while calling me a bitch in the negative rep comments, which is suppose to be an automatic ban for his comments like that. Guys like that are the same ones who walk around with black eyes all the time telling people that he got drunk and started a fight. Real reason is that his little smart mouth got his ass smashed while being perfectly sober.

Go with Christ, brah...