Dirk critical of Mavericks free agency - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 07-10-2016, 01:08 PM

Dirk Nowitzki lays into the Dallas Mavericks organization

Quote:

“We, as an organization, really have to begin to question everything. Is it me people don’t want to play with? Is it Rick (Carlisle)? Is it Mark (Cuban) and some agents and players hold a grudge because he blew up the 2011 champions? Nobody truly knows. Over the last five years, we have been continuously in for the truly big names in free agency, but all we achieved in the end was that we got them more money and a better contract elsewhere,” Dirk told a German newspaper recently. “As for me personally, I don’t truly care how much I make these days, my main focus is on playing for a winner.”

ddh33 · 07-10-2016, 01:10 PM

I wouldn't call that laying into them. If anything, he seems to be saying exactly what most of us are. They haven't landed their targets, and no one is sure why.

Underdog · 07-10-2016, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

I wouldn't call that laying into them. If anything, he seems to be saying exactly what most of us are. They haven't landed their targets, and no one is sure why.

Yeah, that's why I didn't use the article headline as the thread title... Dirk isn't stupid, he knows what he sees -- it's just interesting that he has some of the same theories as the fanbase (like continued blowback from agents/players after letting the championship squad walk.)

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-10-2016, 01:27 PM

Cuban and Donnie don't know how to close. Simple as that.

jleefilled · 07-10-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, that's why I didn't use the article headline as the thread title... Dirk isn't stupid, he knows what he sees -- it's just interesting that he has some of the same theories as the fanbase (like continued blowback from agents/players after letting the championship squad walk.)

It's not surprising coming from Dirk, but it is interesting that he even cited himself as a possible reason why some players don't want to come to the Mavs. It's unfair, but Dirk will never be the most popular guy to play with for most players. Oh well, it's getting towards the end of his career. A lot of players could have done a lot better for their careers if they had chosen to play alongside the big German -- e.g. Dwight Howard and Deron Williams.

j0Shi · 07-10-2016, 03:01 PM

Interview is completely blown out of proportion from the German media. Some even reported Dirk openly questions coach and Cuban, which is insane. Since the report is based off the German interpretation, I'd be careful.

He only stated that you need to evaluate the situation and what led to the drought.

DoYouEvenLift · 07-10-2016, 03:52 PM

With all due respect to Dirk if all he cared about is playing for a winner he should have gone elsewhere. Even before we knew we were getting Barnes and Bogut he re-commited to us. Loyalty is a great thing, but I don't think many would have blamed him for leaving this summer after we lost out on Conley and Whiteside.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-10-2016, 04:07 PM

Cap space certainly hasn't stopped Spurs and Warriors from landing players they targeted yet it's still our priority. That's the real problem with us every free agency. We have an aging Dirk on the roster and then little to nothing else every off season. Why would a free agent be on board with signing with us when it seems like every year we have 10+ roster spots available because we prioritize dry powder over actual players. Teams without cap space are making room for these players to join them and they are more attractive than us. They don't pitch to free agents some kind of 2 year process of signing multiple high profile players in free agency, and also taking pay cuts to do so. They have a roster in place and they target a player they want and if they need to make room for him they have no problem doing so.

If Spurs did not get LMA they still had Kawi and some solid pieces. If Warriors didn't get Durant they obviously had a roster that was fantastic. When we don't get a player, we are left scrambling because we put all our eggs into one basket. And I can't for the life of me understand why we keep putting all our eggs into one basket year after year. Hopefully next year it's different, at least we have young pieces now.

rimrocker · 07-10-2016, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

If Spurs did not get LMA they still had Kawi and some solid pieces. If Warriors didn't get Durant they obviously had a roster that was fantastic. When we don't get a player, we are left scrambling because we put all our eggs into one basket. And I can't for the life of me understand why we keep putting all our eggs into one basket year after year. Hopefully next year it's different, at least we have young pieces now.

I think there are two big reasons why the Mavs aren't attractive to star FAs.

First....this is and always has been Dirk's team over the past 15 years so the egocentric FAs wouldn't be able to steal the spotlight from him.

Second....the FAs who are team-oriented only see one core star on this team.
Although Dirk has been a superstar to us fans most of his career, I don't think he got the proper respect from the rest of the league until the Mavs won the championship and by then he was 32. And Dirk has never been a flashy outspoken player. A team with only one star that is age 32 is not going to attract many high profile FAs. SA on the other hand has had a star core of 3 over the past 12 or more yrs. Other teams like GSW, OKC, Clips and Cleveland have been able to acquire multiple stars through the draft and/or leverage high draft picks to yield them.

EastTxMFFL · 07-10-2016, 05:58 PM

Sad thing is next summer has a lot of big names available and Dallas will strike out once again. I truly do want to know what the FA repellant is in Dallas that has led to this.

Murphy3 · 07-10-2016, 06:10 PM

The two biggest reasons why the Mavs have struck out in FA while Dirk was here... For so long, it had to do with not having any cap space. Once the Mavs finally had cap space, the Mavs had won a championship and we're basically without assets to attract free agents other than an aging Dirk. It really makes you question what in the hell the Mabs front office was doing in years since the championship... Constant missteps.

Dtownsfinest · 07-10-2016, 08:39 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head Murph. What can these guys sell to a free agent to come here? Come play with a 38 year old Dirk for a year or two?

mac222b · 07-10-2016, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The two biggest reasons why the Mavs have struck out in FA while Dirk was here... For so long, it had to do with not having any cap space. Once the Mavs finally had cap space, the Mavs had won a championship and we're basically without assets to attract free agents other than an aging Dirk. It really makes you question what in the hell the Mabs front office was doing in years since the championship... Constant missteps.

I would also cite the strange paradox of seemingly blowing up the championship squad---but not really. They let assets leave w/out getting anything in return. But then sent out a 1st rounder for Odom. Didn't get anything in return for Marion.

I think we've seen time and again that these supergrass are built through stockpiling assets and then flipping them for a "star". Or the SAS method by which they landed Kawhi: trading a valuable vet for a guy they saw as a future star. The Mavs equivalent would've been the often cited Roddy for Indy's 11th pick. That's presuming we would taken Paul George of course. He would've been this teams Kawhi.

Moving up a couple spots a few years ago could've landed us Steven Adams.
Andre Drummond fell to #8 or something. The smartest organization have the assets on hand to make those deals when the opportunities arise. Utah traded up into Minnesotas spot a few years ago with the 16&21(?). Problem is they took Trey Burke. Turns out Dieng and Shabazz are both better players that Minny took with those picks. So I think it's collecting assets, identifying a target and lastly and most importantly picking the right guy! Also, we had another Kawhi type fall into our laps with Giannis and Cuban outwitted himself...

mac222b · 07-10-2016, 09:45 PM

As a caveat I'm always willing to let the MBT slide on the post championship breakup. If its true we had the inside track on CP3 and Dwight then you have to take that chance all day every single time. I don't fault them for that. Cubans misreading of the new CBA that supposedly no one else had a read on and leaving the cupboard so very barren is what hurt our chances at a quick rebuild. Do better due diligence on Odom and that trade maybe doesn't get made. Trade Marion for a future 1st. Maybe hold Dirk out another 10 games post injury and we move up a spot in the lottery and land Steven Adams. I know hindsight is 20/20 but they didn't even have to get ALL of these things right. Problem is they gotten almost NOTHING right post 2011. Justin Anderson perhaps excepted.

DoYouEvenLift · 07-10-2016, 09:53 PM

The sad thing is cap space doesn't even matter anymore every team has cap space. The 73 win Warriors added Durant, the Clippers and Spurs had a meeting with him. Next summer the cap will rise to 102 million there will be no shortage of cap space again and we're just going to be a team with a 39 (then) year old star. At least we'll have a draft pick we need to start focusing on homegrown players.

mac222b · 07-10-2016, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouEvenLift

The sad thing is cap space doesn't even matter anymore every team has cap space. The 73 win Warriors added Durant, the Clippers and Spurs had a meeting with him. Next summer the cap will rise to 102 million there will be no shortage of cap space again and we're just going to be a team with a 39 (then) year old star. At least we'll have a draft pick we need to start focusing on homegrown players.

Yeah Cuban has been exposed w/out the safety net of being able to take on contracts and outspend all but a few teams. He misread the new CBA with characteristic hubris and then maybe started meddling even more post 'ship then he had previous. All of the advance metric stuff didn't exactly lead to an overhaul of scouting the draft approach. Wish he'd pored more of his $ into the very best scouting and less into plush towels and playstations for the players.

spreedom · 07-11-2016, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Yeah Cuban has been exposed w/out the safety net of being able to take on contracts and outspend all but a few teams. He misread the new CBA with characteristic hubris and then maybe started meddling even more post 'ship then he had previous. All of the advance metric stuff didn't exactly lead to an overhaul of scouting the draft approach. Wish he'd pored more of his $ into the very best scouting and less into plush towels and playstations for the players.

I don't disagree that he misread the salary cap landscape post-championship, but let's be fair... nobody knew the NBA was going to get that historic TV deal either. For all we knew, we'd be sitting at a $65-75M cap in perpetuity. Doesn't excuse all of the failed maneuvering, but it is worth noting.

And I think something we seem to be doing right this summer is signing virtually everybody we get to multi-year deals. Even if it's end-of-roster league minimum guys, having control like that over the long-term is going to be really valuable. It remains to be seen if Barnes is worth the investment, but I'm glad we're at least rolling the dice on him.

j0Shi · 07-11-2016, 05:54 AM

I personally think the Mavs indeed weren't aggressive enough. They tried to stay competitive while not taking on long-term money and bad deals in preparation of the rebuild that inevitably will come. This led to all the borderline 8th seeds and first round exits, because you simply can't content that way.

I truly believe they tried to change the strategy with Parsons though. They realized we have to overpay for talent and a chance at a new star. And Parsons nearly landed DJ last year. I get that's still a miss, but our change in approach nearly paid off instantly. Then of course Mavs lost confidence in Parsons injuries. That's just bad luck.

So they are trying the same path again. We didn't get the big names, cause still lacking assets, so here's the next young guy we're overpaying and hope he'll eventually contribute to a core that indeed is interesting for other FAs.

I also agree that the new CBA and salary-cap is something that simply couldn't be predicted. Not only the Mavs are struggling with it. That doesn't make us smarter than the rest, but also not worse.

I would add that teams are also still slowly adjusting to the new star mentality. LeBron failed to win a championship at Cleveland, so he teamed up in Miami. Howard failed at Orlando, went to Harden. Durant failed, now GSW. DJ stayed with Paul and Griffin. Stars are choosing easy ways to get their Rings and being the man or face of the franchise somewhere isn't necessarily a selling point any longer.

I think the only "stars" that sign into capspace nowadays are the Wades, which are past their prime and are mainly looking at the max amount of money the can grab.

rabbitproof · 07-11-2016, 08:35 AM

Given money is basically a draw in most cases, the reasons to move are really playing to win, both in the now (championship ready) and the future (have a cast that will be CF/Finals ready for the duration of the contract or 3-5 years).

I think Dallas sold them on a dream of being championship ready after you sign ("IF you come, THEN we will.."), which isn't a very good "now" sell because they don't know what the team makeup will look, how they might share touches vs being the "finishing touch", knowing the rotation, etc.

The future pitch was built around the owner/FO/coach rather than fellow young stars (Wade/Bosh, Harden, CP3/Griffin, Steph/Klay/Dray). This is the sort of thing that makes sense to management ("the infrastructure and process are stable!") but less to the employee. As the employee, at the end of the day, the people you are sweating and working shoulder to shoulder with mean more than the executive team upstairs.

And so, free agency has really become a methodology of the rich getting richer.

To j0shi's point, rather than go for the one-move rebuild, Dallas has broken it into two-steps. Get some younger B level guys to set up the level A targets, which helps with both the now and future arguments.

SMC0007 · 07-11-2016, 09:33 AM

Dirk can say whatever the hell he wants and I'm fine with him openly question the real reasons. Imo, 1) the fact that he is aging is a concern. 2) I'm not sure how it all works when they meet with players to try and get them here...but why not get the best marketing firms to compete against each other to be hired by the organization to go after these players? Similar to madmen. Having guys who run the organization pitch an idea kinda seems like were running old software and we are outdated.

DoYouEvenLift · 07-11-2016, 10:28 AM

Cuban thought we were going to have one of the best starting 5s in the league with Rondo-Monta-Parsons-Dirk-Tyson but again it blew up in our faces like everything has post championship. He got outplayed by Ainge in that Rondo deal but yet it's hard to say we all saw it coming.

I think my biggest criticism is not that we could predict Rondo would do what he would do but that he was an expiring and we gave up too much for an expiring, not to mention he can't shoot and didn't fit Carlisle's system.

Underdog · 07-11-2016, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Stars are choosing easy ways to get their Rings and being the man or face of the franchise somewhere isn't necessarily a selling point any longer.

This is why everyone hates millennials -- they'll happily sacrifice individual growth for instant gratification... The journey doesn't matter, just the destination.

Get off my lawn with that pansy-ass, safe space-needing, participation award-winning bullshit! Real men don't tuck tail and run for help when they're faced with adversity -- they dig in and get to work... There will never be another:

j0Shi · 07-11-2016, 12:05 PM

The only issue with that is something Zach Lowe said on a podcast recently. You can't preach the narrative that you better win rings or bust and then accuse people of chasing.

The winner takes it all mentality is majorly contributing to the trend.

Underdog · 07-11-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

The only issue with that is something Zach Lowe said on a podcast recently. You can't preach the narrative that you better win rings or bust and then accuse people of chasing.

You can't preach the narrative of the American Dream and then accuse people of wrongdoing when they rob you at gunpoint so they can get ahead... Oh, wait, yes you can.

I usually agree with Lowe, but not in this case -- just because the bar is set high doesn't mean you can't call people out who cheat their way to the top. This is exactly the kind of millennial-pandering mentality I was talking about. If it's too hard, then work harder. Quit acting like a bitch.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-11-2016, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

You can't preach the narrative of the American Dream and then accuse people of wrongdoing when they rob you at gunpoint so they can get ahead... Oh, wait, yes you can.

I usually agree with Lowe, but not in this case -- just because the bar is set high doesn't mean you can't call people out who cheat their way to the top. This is exactly the kind of millennial-pandering mentality I was talking about. If it's too hard, then work harder. Quit acting like a bitch.

Yeah I disagree with Lowe on this as well. The argument of rings isn't as simple as "does he have a ring y/n?" The journey to get the ring is ultimately what a legacy is made of.

If we all started a golf tournament today and we all lined up for the first hole, a 240yd par-3, and then UD came along and dropped his ball at the ladies/red section and was essentially hitting from 180-200yd's... if he gets it in 3 does it mean the same as ours? No, when we all get in the clubhouse later we will mark his par-3 with a qualifier that he was hitting from a much shorter distance than the rest of us and buy him a drink with an umbrella in it.

Underdog · 07-11-2016, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

If we all started a golf tournament today and we all lined up for the first hole, a 240yd par-3, and then UD came along and dropped his ball at the ladies/red section and was essentially hitting from 180-200yd's... if he gets it in 3 does it mean the same as ours? No, when we all get in the clubhouse later we will mark his par-3 with a qualifier that he was hitting from a much shorter distance than the rest of us and buy him a drink with an umbrella in it.

LOL, nice visual... Although I'd probably David West my opportunity.

DirkFTW · 07-11-2016, 02:36 PM

After reading this thread, Durant now on his way to Dallas? Strangely, he seems to be interested in playing football now.

mac222b · 07-11-2016, 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=Underdog;1407147]LOL, nice visual... Although I'd probably David West my opportunity.[/

That explains your diatribe earlier then. A touch of roid rage- essential for the full on David West experience.

I agree with your sentiment though. It makes 2011 just that much sweeter in my eyes. Even the Spurs had to pull one of the most egregious tank jobs of all time to land Duncan.

BigDog63 · 07-12-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk Nowitzki lays into the Dallas Mavericks organization

Yes, people DO know. It's not that players don't want to play with Dirk (who wouldn't want to play with Dirk?), it's that players don't want to play with ONLY Dirk. The Mavs have not built any core foundation to which a free agent would come. So, when you look at their roster vs the roster of any other team that FA would consider coming to, the other rosters win. DeAndre Jordan was the one who was looking to be built around, but in the end he also chose the better roster.

Who is to blame for this? Cuban. Cuban has disdained draft picks, and the result is no core, and no youth. Just a different mix of FAs every year. Cuban did this to be in the marquee FA hunt every year, never realizing it was the very reason no one would come.

BigDog63 · 07-12-2016, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I don't disagree that he misread the salary cap landscape post-championship, but let's be fair... nobody knew the NBA was going to get that historic TV deal either. For all we knew, we'd be sitting at a $65-75M cap in perpetuity. Doesn't excuse all of the failed maneuvering, but it is worth noting.

And I think something we seem to be doing right this summer is signing virtually everybody we get to multi-year deals. Even if it's end-of-roster league minimum guys, having control like that over the long-term is going to be really valuable. It remains to be seen if Barnes is worth the investment, but I'm glad we're at least rolling the dice on him.

I don't think Cuban misread the salary cap issue at all. He had that right. What he misread was the desire of those FAs to come to a Dallas team that had no core group established.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-12-2016, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

I don't think Cuban misread the salary cap issue at all. He had that right. What he misread was the desire of those FAs to come to a Dallas team that had no core group established.

He misread how other teams would use their cap space. That is the great unknown when free agency comes around that nobody can predict. However, previous track records show that teams are willing to spend, and you better show 'em the money! Cuban thought that the mid-tier guys would be weeded out with the new CBA in 2011, and boy was he wrong about that.

rimrocker · 07-12-2016, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

The only issue with that is something Zach Lowe said on a podcast recently. You can't preach the narrative that you better win rings or bust and then accuse people of chasing.

The winner takes it all mentality is majorly contributing to the trend.

The whole ring thing is overblown imo. Roddy B has a ring but does that make his career more respectable than Charles Barkley's?

The true superstar brings a ring to a team....it's hard to respect those who choose to have a team bring a ring to them.

We should enjoy the last few years of having one of the few players (and maybe will be the last) who was the only superstar on a championship team.

stuportremens · 07-13-2016, 05:01 AM

There's not much to question here, as far as "why didn't player x, y or z sign with us" is concerned.

It's pretty rare that a team manages to sign a top FA in free agency. And when it happens, the FA usually signs with a team that's in a big market like LA and / or has top level talent so the chance to win a championship is very high.

So, for Dallas, it was always going to be a long shot. The odds for it to work were always very low. Nobody needs to question why it didn't happen. If something has a 5% chance of happening, it has a 95% chance of not happening, so if the 95% materialize, nobody should be surprised.

The only thing that really needs to be questioned is why the team decided to go for such a low-percentage shot in the first place - and why they misjudged the value of signed players so badly.
Assuming that other teams would be forced to drop their players into the Mavs' lap because of the new CBA that nobody else understood.

That was just monumentally stupid.