2019 Mavs Free Agency

[sefant77]

Stretching THJ to sign Horford and kemba completly kills the 2021 FA. Not going to happen.

And Horford had this season allready problems with his lateral quickness, its declining quickly. And remember, we are searching a guy who can (at least for stretches) play the four at defense, so KP is our rim protector. Horford cant play this role at all.

Two years younger and i pull the trigger. But 33y old Horford is just...too old. Two year contract okay but im not touching him for three or more

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not only that, but we'd likely have to stretch waive THJ in which Cuban swallows 40 million. Not gonna happen.

I will say that I'm growing more used to Horford though if we strike out on others and can get his price down a bit. You could do worse I suppose. Rather just pay Vuc in that scenario though.

I don’t want Horford on a 4 year deal unless it’s massively front-loaded... And even then, anything more than a 3 year deal where we can trade his expiring in that last year is a turn off for me because I want Giannis in 2021.

That’s why I’m out on Vuc and the other 2nd tier guys this summer — if the 3rd guy that we add to the Luka/KP combo doesn’t launch us to contender status then I’d rather keep our powder dry for someone who will... Kemba is really the only 2nd tier star I’d consider this summer because he’s the only one I feel confident about retaining trade value.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don’t want Horford on a 4 year deal unless it’s massively front-loaded... And even then, anything more than a 3 year deal where we can trade his expiring in that last year is a turn off for me because I want Giannis in 2021.

That’s why I’m out on Vuc and the other 2nd tier guys this summer — if the 3rd guy that we add to the Luka/KP combo doesn’t launch us to contender status then I’d rather keep our powder dry for someone who will... Kemba is really the only 2nd tier star I’d consider this summer because he’s the only one I feel confident about retaining trade value.

I dont like either of them on a 4 year deal but again I think both of them together make us contenders.

With Luka and KP here I am not sure that keeping the powder dry makes sense. The Mavs will live or die with these 2 and the rest will hopefully be good quality players that turn us into a great TEAM.

At this point I am not sure I consider either one a Star but both are very very good/ great players and would fit our team.

PS....Greek Freak is not leaving. I dont see that happening unless the Bucks completely screw up and pretty much show him they dont want him. He is probably the closest thing to Dirk when it comes to staying with one team in a lesser market.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don’t want Horford on a 4 year deal unless it’s massively front-loaded... And even then, anything more than a 3 year deal where we can trade his expiring in that last year is a turn off for me because I want Giannis in 2021.

That’s why I’m out on Vuc and the other 2nd tier guys this summer — if the 3rd guy that we add to the Luka/KP combo doesn’t launch us to contender status then I’d rather keep our powder dry for someone who will... Kemba is really the only 2nd tier star I’d consider this summer because he’s the only one I feel confident about retaining trade value.

The fan base won't like it, but that's probably the smart move. If it's not Kemba, I'll take two good players that may at least get us close to, or in the playoffs. By the time Hardaway and Lee come off the books, you may still have really good players and enough money for a max contract player... and by then we'll have a better understanding of the team needs

[mac222b]

About Frank:

He's only 20 years old(!) and is 6'5 with a 7'1 wingspan. As a rookie he was the best in the league at defending the pick and roll. He can guard multiple positions on switches. His shot isn't broken-- he has a nice release and shoots pretty well from the ft line.

He can absolutely be one of the best defenders in the league. Bruce Bowen only with exponentially better handles and court vision. The game will slow down for him eventually. Play him off the ball more and all he needs to do is learn to hit the corner 3. I would love to have him here. Obviously the contract is an issue with free agency looming. But aside from that the guy is the definition of a great buy low target.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

BUT again I am trying to understand his notion that we shouldn't sign guys like Al and Walker ( not my first choice but a good choice) because of how old Luka and KP are. Are we supposed to wait for the to be 28 to build a winning team??

I think signing a 33 year old big like Horford to a 4 year max deal is a total win-now move because the odds are against a 33 year old giving you max player production for 4 years, although you take that risk if you’re one Al Horford away from winning a ring... But with Luka & KP being so young, there’s no need to go all-in on a guy like him and risk having a bunch of wasted cap space for the back half of that contract as these guys start to hit their primes. I’m even okay with Kemba, since he’s likely to retain his value throughout the duration of his contract. I just don’t want to get saddled with a bad contract, and Horford has high potential to become one over 4 years.

I’m not against older players, I’m just risk-averse when there are safer/better options out there.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

I dont like either of them on a 4 year deal but again I think both of them together make us contenders.

With Luka and KP here I am not sure that keeping the powder dry makes sense. The Mavs will live or die with these 2 and the rest will hopefully be good quality players that turn us into a great TEAM.

At this point I am not sure I consider either one a Star but both are very very good/ great players and would fit our team.

PS....Greek Freak is not leaving. I dont see that happening unless the Bucks completely screw up and pretty much show him they dont want him. He is probably the closest thing to Dirk when it comes to staying with one team in a lesser market.

I feel confident in saying that the odds of Giannis coming to Dallas are a lot better than Dallas finding takers for THJ/Lee and signing both Horford and Kemba... And I’d say the odds of us landing Giannis are somewhere around 20% right now.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by mac222b

About Frank:

He's only 20 years old(!) and is 6'5 with a 7'1 wingspan. As a rookie he was the best in the league at defending the pick and roll. He can guard multiple positions on switches. His shot isn't broken-- he has a nice release and shoots pretty well from the ft line.

He can absolutely be one of the best defenders in the league. Bruce Bowen only with exponentially better handles and court vision. The game will slow down for him eventually. Play him off the ball more and all he needs to do is learn to hit the corner 3. I would love to have him here. Obviously the contract is an issue with free agency looming. But aside from that the guy is the definition of a great buy low target.

Having the body for defense doesn’t make you a good defender.

You need BBIQ, knowledge of psychology, and a fighting spirit. Frank doesn’t have any of those.

Don’t get me wrong, for the right price (say, a minimum deal) I’d take him as a prospect, but the player he’a not coming into 2019-2020 as a player. He’s a prospect who needs to develop every aspect of his game just to stay in the NBA.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I feel confident in saying that the odds of Giannis coming to Dallas are a lot better than Dallas finding takers for THJ/Lee and signing both Horford and Kemba... And I’d say the odds of us landing Giannis are somewhere around 20% right now.

WOW....you must have some insider info. because I think the odds of us getting Giannis are the same as every other team in the league not named Bucks ...maybe 1-2%.

I think the odds of Kemba/ Al are 40%

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

WOW....you must have some insider info. because I think the odds of us getting Giannis are the same as every other team in the league not named Bucks ...maybe 1-2%.

I think the odds of Kemba/ Al are 40%

I think the odds of finding someone to take THJ/Lee off our hands are damn near 0%... You need to stop reading Fish & Co., you’re just setting yourself up for massive disappointment.

Kemba OR Horford? Maybe... Both? You sound like the delusional Lakers fans who think they’re gonna land Kawhi this summer — math is not on your side

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I feel confident in saying that the odds of Giannis coming to Dallas are a lot better than Dallas finding takers for THJ/Lee and signing both Horford and Kemba... And I’d say the odds of us landing Giannis are somewhere around 20% right now.

Also...Lee is expiring and I am certain we can get rid of him. THJ is tough but history has shown that teams will take on almost any contract and with players that were a lot less productive than THJ.

If the Hornets lose Kemba, they have no hope of doing anything meaningful over the next few years so why not take THJ in a sign and trade. THJ showed in NY that he can put up 20 ppg on a bad team and keep things at least a little interesting.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don’t want Horford on a 4 year deal unless it’s massively front-loaded... And even then, anything more than a 3 year deal where we can trade his expiring in that last year is a turn off for me because I want Giannis in 2021.

That’s why I’m out on Vuc and the other 2nd tier guys this summer — if the 3rd guy that we add to the Luka/KP combo doesn’t launch us to contender status then I’d rather keep our powder dry for someone who will... Kemba is really the only 2nd tier star I’d consider this summer because he’s the only one I feel confident about retaining trade value.

Its not about being a contender, but we really need to be a playoff team going into the 2021 free agency. A real one, not a paper one.

The other players have to see Luka&KP in the playoffs. Or it will be "two years they are allready playing together and not even made the playoffs"

And the 2021 FA is not just Giannis, it looks like it will be a pretty huge one.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think the odds of finding someone to take THJ/Lee off our hands are damn near 0%... You need to stop reading Fish & Co., you’re just setting yourself up for massive disappointment.

I read everyone but I like to think that I have pretty good knowledge of basketball. Free Agency is unpredictable as you know so we could end up with these 2 or we could end up with one of them OR with none of the big names out there.

All I am arguing is Luka hates to lose and is used to winning. I dont see why we should wait to build a winning team around him and KP when we can do it now. I cant say how that will look , whether its Al/ Kemba or others but I think it should be now. Having said that, I think we should be smart and and try to keep any contracts to 3 years if possible, especially in Al's case.

[EricaLubarsky]

Problem with Fish is that he actually hurts fans.

Sure, all he’s doing is being a fan and pulling stories out of his ass, but when he says we can get Durant, Horford, and Kemba at the same time, he gets clicks but when we only get one, people are disappointed despite the fact we were never getting 90+ million in players with barely 30 in cap space

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

I read everyone but I like to think that I have pretty good knowledge of basketballs. Free Agency is unpredictable as you know so we could end up with these 2 or we could end up with one of them OR with none of the big names out there.

All I am arguing is Luka hates to lose and is used to winning. I dont see why we should wait to build a winning team around him and KP when we can do it now. I cant say how that will look , whether its Al/ Kemba or others but I think it should be now. Having said that, I think we should be smart and and try to keep any contracts to 3 years if possible, especially in Al's case.

I actually do think you have good knowledge of basketball, but the Horford/Kemba thing is totally Fish & Co... I mean, why not Kemba/Vucevic? Or any other combination of 2nd tier FAs? The sticking point is still the same -- you have to unload THJ/Lee first, and there's no way to do that unless you pay someone in draft picks... And trading away your already-limited draft picks when your stars are 20 and 23 is just poor asset management, and proves that Cuban/Donnie haven't learned anything in the last 20+ years (how many rings would Dirk have if the MBT took the draft as seriously as the Spurs do?)

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

I read everyone but I like to think that I have pretty good knowledge of basketballs. Free Agency is unpredictable as you know so we could end up with these 2 or we could end up with one of them OR with none of the big names out there.

All I am arguing is Luka hates to lose and is used to winning. I dont see why we should wait to build a winning team around him and KP when we can do it now. I cant say how that will look , whether its Al/ Kemba or others but I think it should be now. Having said that, I think we should be smart and and try to keep any contracts to 3 years if possible, especially in Al's case.

Luka is in a long long line of NBA players who also hate to lose...probably stemming back from the beginning of the sport. It's not like the FO is tossing a coin on whether or not they should build a winning team. This isn't NBA2k, so it takes a bit of time a patience.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually do think you have a good knowledge of basketball, but the Horford/Kemba thing is totally Fish & Co... I mean, why not Kemba/Vucevic? Or any other combination of 2nd tier FAs? The sticking point is still the same -- you have to unload THJ/Lee first, and there's no way to do that unless you pay someone in draft picks... And trading away your already-limited draft picks when your stars are 20 and 23 is just poor asset management, and proves that Cuban/Donnie haven't learned anything in the last 20+ years (how many rings would Dirk have if the MBT took the draft as seriously as the Spurs do?)

The same amount they do now because Refs

[DevinHarriswillstart]

The Kemba/Horford thing isn't even Fish's idea. That's how weak that rumor is.

Horford stuff actually had some legit sources so that's more relevant to talk about.

Mavs usually come out of left field with their moves though, so I'm not really worried about who we get. Just gotta fast forward this week somehow because the amount of dog snot coming via click bait will be epic.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The Kemba/Horford thing isn't even Fish's idea. That's how weak that rumor is.

There are individual rumors about Kemba and Horford, but Fish's boy Dalton Trigg linked those rumors and created the scenario to get them to Dallas... Now everyone on Twitter is parroting that scenario like it's the MBT's Plan A and the most likely outcome for this offseason.

Mavs + Kemba + Horford, Part 1: Media time stamps weave a story
https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...ory-133095895/

Kemba + Horford, Part 2: Can the Mavs really catch 2 big fish?
https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/...ish-133085198/


I still say the odds of us landing Giannis are higher because we don't need to get a million different pieces to fall into place -- all we need to do is let Luka/KP's play convince him that Dallas is the best possible option for him... Easy? Not at all. But there are a lot less variables involved, which makes it far more likely to happen.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mavs usually come out of left field with their moves though, so I'm not really worried about who we get. Just gotta fast forward this week somehow because the amount of dog snot coming via click bait will be epic.

Right on time...


Chris Sheridan@sheridanhoops A person very close to the #Mavs just told me that Dallas is expecting to get a meeting with unrestricted free agent @kawhileonard

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Right on time...


Chris Sheridan@sheridanhoops A person very close to the #Mavs just told me that Dallas is expecting to get a meeting with unrestricted free agent @kawhileonard

I would be thrilled to even get the sit down, as it would signal to other FAs that Dallas is a serious destination... That's the most we could hope for (because the fit with Kawhi/Luka/KP would be so ridiculous that the Basketball Gods would never let it happen).

[AO41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Luka is in a long long line of NBA players who also hate to lose...probably stemming back from the beginning of the sport. It's not like the FO is tossing a coin on whether or not they should build a winning team. This isn't NBA2k, so it takes a bit of time a patience.

Maybe so but how many of those players are as talented as Luka and have someone as good as KP playing next to them?

So again, IMO no need to wait.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually do think you have good knowledge of basketball, but the Horford/Kemba thing is totally Fish & Co... I mean, why not Kemba/Vucevic? Or any other combination of 2nd tier FAs? The sticking point is still the same -- you have to unload THJ/Lee first, and there's no way to do that unless you pay someone in draft picks... And trading away your already-limited draft picks when your stars are 20 and 23 is just poor asset management, and proves that Cuban/Donnie haven't learned anything in the last 20+ years (how many rings would Dirk have if the MBT took the draft as seriously as the Spurs do?)

Ohh you are right abut that part but thats what the discussion was about.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I would be thrilled to even get the sit down, as it would signal to other FAs that Dallas is a serious destination... That's the most we could hope for (because the fit with Kawhi/Luka/KP would be so ridiculous that the Basketball Gods would never let it happen).

I agree with this and Leonard's game and style is the PERFECT fit. But we all know its not going to happen.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by mac222b

About Frank:

He's only 20 years old(!) and is 6'5 with a 7'1 wingspan. As a rookie he was the best in the league at defending the pick and roll. He can guard multiple positions on switches. His shot isn't broken-- he has a nice release and shoots pretty well from the ft line.

He can absolutely be one of the best defenders in the league. Bruce Bowen only with exponentially better handles and court vision. The game will slow down for him eventually. Play him off the ball more and all he needs to do is learn to hit the corner 3. I would love to have him here. Obviously the contract is an issue with free agency looming. But aside from that the guy is the definition of a great buy low target.

Clearly, you HAVE seen Ntilikina play.

New York Knicks: Frank Ntilikina Ranks No. 1 In Stunning Statistic

Ntilikina's rookie season was spent as a 19-year old in a foreign country learning a foreign language, with a journeyman coach (Hornacek) fighting for his coaching career, loath to play rookies and trying to drag a talent-thin roster toward .500, and a playoff berth.

Guess who lobbied Hornacek for more playing time for Ntilikina, because of his playmaking and defense? Kristaps Porzingis.

Ntilikina's second season was spent playing for a certified moron (Fizdale) who was being directed to Lose-For-Zion. Fizdale jerked Ntilikina around by starting him pell-mell and willy-nilly at 3 positions, jerking him out of games, and then benching him for long stretches without explanation, then compounded by suffering a recurrent groin injury.

Ntilikina has Elite Defender written all over him for the world to see, and is EXACTLY the kind of wing defender who would complement Doncic. He has a nice 3-point shot, with a beautiful release and rotation, but he needs to be encouraged to take it. His weakness, as I see it, is a failure to assert his elite athleticism taking the ball to the basket.

What he needs is a change of scenery into a stable environment, with a coach who can instill some confidence into him, and encourage him to press the advantages his physical tools afford him.

I'd much rather have Ntilikina and Rubio than some broken-down-assed Al Horford on a $100 million contract, FFS.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

Maybe so but how many of those players are as talented as Luka and have someone as good as KP playing next to them?

So again, IMO no need to wait.

A lot had the same potential as our 2 guys. What makes you think the FO wants to wait?

[endtroducing MASKED]

My replies didn’t load delete

[Murphy3]

It is a difficult situation.... The Mavs may very well find themselves in a situation to where they believe it's in their best interest to wait until next year to try and add someone... I do worry about them getting into a pattern of doing this. And I do believe that they have take significant strides forward to keep Doncic in a Mavs uniform long term. So, they'll probably be left with overpaying for someone such as a Horford or keeping the powder dry until next year. Everyone in Mavs land loves dry powder...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

It is a difficult situation.... The Mavs may very well find themselves in a situation to where they believe it's in their best interest to wait until next year to try and add someone... I do worry about them getting into a pattern of doing this. And I do believe that they have take significant strides forward to keep Doncic in a Mavs uniform long term. So, they'll probably be left with overpaying for someone such as a Horford or keeping the powder dry until next year. Everyone in Mavs land loves dry powder...

I sincerely doubt they traded Barnes just to have dry powder. I personally believe they are going all in this summer regardless of future space. If you have a chance to win now, then you take it every time.

The bigger question is whether those moves will be enough to move the needle.

[jleefilled]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Clearly, you HAVE seen Ntilikina play.

New York Knicks: Frank Ntilikina Ranks No. 1 In Stunning Statistic

Ntilikina's rookie season was spent as a 19-year old in a foreign country learning a foreign language, with a journeyman coach (Hornacek) fighting for his coaching career, loath to play rookies and trying to drag a talent-thin roster toward .500, and a playoff berth.

Guess who lobbied Hornacek for more playing time for Ntilikina, because of his playmaking and defense? Kristaps Porzingis.

Ntilikina's second season was spent playing for a certified moron (Fizdale) who was being directed to Lose-For-Zion. Fizdale jerked Ntilikina around by starting him pell-mell and willy-nilly at 3 positions, jerking him out of games, and then benching him for long stretches without explanation, then compounded by suffering a recurrent groin injury.

Ntilikina has Elite Defender written all over him for the world to see, and is EXACTLY the kind of wing defender who would complement Doncic. He has a nice 3-point shot, with a beautiful release and rotation, but he needs to be encouraged to take it. His weakness, as I see it, is a failure to assert his elite athleticism taking the ball to the basket.

What he needs is a change of scenery into a stable environment, with a coach who can instill some confidence into him, and encourage him to press the advantages his physical tools afford him.

I'd much rather have Ntilikina and Rubio than some broken-down-assed Al Horford on a $100 million contract, FFS.

You sold me on Frank. I do agree that he would be a nice fit next to Doncic in the backcourt. He could probably defend most players 1-4 while developing as someone that can space the floor and initiate the offense when needed. Fits the timeline nice with his age as well.

I'd be happy if the Mavs could make it happen.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

It is a difficult situation.... The Mavs may very well find themselves in a situation to where they believe it's in their best interest to wait until next year to try and add someone... I do worry about them getting into a pattern of doing this. And I do believe that they have take significant strides forward to keep Doncic in a Mavs uniform long term. So, they'll probably be left with overpaying for someone such as a Horford or keeping the powder dry until next year. Everyone in Mavs land loves dry powder...

I'll take dry powder over Erick Dampier 2.0, thanks... Horford is gonna be 37 by the time his contract expires, and even at 33 he's due for regression. Let someone else take that risk.

Also, we already made a significant move to keep Doncic in a Mavs uniform -- Kristaps Porzingis... It's not like we're coming back with the same roster as last year. We nabbed a young All-Star in Luka's rookie season, which is better than Dirk ever got in his 20 years here.

[AO41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

A lot had the same potential as our 2 guys. What makes you think the FO wants to wait?

The FO doesn’t ...I hope.

It’s some poster in here who seem to want to wait.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by AO41

The FO doesn’t ...I hope.

It’s some poster in here who seem to want to wait.

I don't want to wait, I just don't want to go to the playoffs this year, then miss the playoffs the next three years because we maxed out a 33 year old big whose game fell off a cliff... We don't need to "win now" -- we need to create a culture of sustained winning over several years. ... I'd rather see if something better comes along than shoot ourselves in the foot. Saddling your middling team with bad contracts is how franchise players are lost.

[Bryan_Wilson]

The Mavs big acquisition was KP. There is a huge difference between wanting to wait and not wanting to rush things.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by AO41

The FO doesn’t ...I hope.

It’s some poster in here who seem to want to wait.

"Some posters here" is what I thought was the case. Regardless of how awesome this board is, FO isn't scrolling the pages to find what the people want.

I'm almost shocked that a few people would pay the absolutely ridiculous rumored contract Horford wants. Some of the knee jerk reactions the fans seem to have is due to the swing and miss we have had in free agency...but not because we haven't tried. You can't make f.a. come here so we take the alternate route via trades. I have faith they will attempt to put the best team together possible for now but there is a reason young guys don't often run the show. Experience and patience are big factors.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Problem with Fish is that he actually hurts fans.

Sure, all he’s doing is being a fan and pulling stories out of his ass, but when he says we can get Durant, Horford, and Kemba at the same time, he gets clicks but when we only get one, people are disappointed despite the fact we were never getting 90+ million in players with barely 30 in cap space

Fish has recently said "The Mavs enjoy their front-office reputation as a franchise that does not "leak.'' "

Yet he makes out that he is an insider

Absolute crap

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

The Mavs big acquisition was KP. There is a huge difference between wanting to wait and not wanting to rush things.

And if you look at the blood bath western conference you realize that Luka and KP may/probably arent enough for even the playoffs...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

And if you look at the blood batt western conference you realize that Luka and KP may/probably arent enough for even the playoffs...

We went from 3 role players (Barnes/Matthews/Dennis) to 2 franchise players (Luka/Porzingis) in just one year... Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us land another max FA this summer and make the playoffs, but Dirk never saw this kind of turnaround in such a short amount of time at any point in his career. Maybe tap the brakes a bit? The MBT is making excellent progress so far.

[sefant77]

Tap the breaks with a horrible 2020 FA class doesnt make sense either, thats the thing with plan powder.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Tap the breaks with a horrible 2020 FA class doesnt make sense either, thats the thing with plan powder.

But how does 2021-23 look? Because you're passing on those FA classes too... And it's only gonna be worse each year that Horford's game declines -- he's more likely to be the reason that future FAs pass on Dallas than a guy who puts us into contention for the next 4 years.