I think Parsons will not be around after this contract .... - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DGM · 02-24-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

UD ain't making stuff up to score points.

But he doesn't have to behave badly.

Underdog · 02-24-2016, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

But he doesn't have to behave badly.

Behave badly? How, by posting facts? Sorry about that, I'll try harder to indulge in your delusions the next time I post...

DGM · 02-24-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Behave badly? How, by posting facts? Sorry about that, I'll try harder to indulge in your delusions the next time I post...

Going out of your way to insult is bad behavior.

Underdog · 02-24-2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Going out of your way to insult is bad behavior.

You mean like when you accused me of lying, even though the link was right in front of your eyes?

Or are you mad at me for pointing out that your gut has shit for brains? Because, well, the human gut only produces one thing: shit... It's biology.

GermanStandard · 02-25-2016, 05:21 AM

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

spreedom · 02-25-2016, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStandard

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

The way he's been playing the last 15 games? Even if/when he comes back down to earth, he's absolutely going to opt out and he'll get a pretty healthy raise. The number I've heard thrown around the most is 4yrs/$80M. With the cap jumping this summer, I have a hard time believing he's get less than that when about twenty teams are going to be in position to offer at least one max contract. TBH I think we're lucky if we get him that cheap. And if we somehow lose out on him... I pray it's because we had to choose between him and an even better free agent.

BPo001 · 02-25-2016, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStandard

Parsons will take his Player Option and we are stuck with him.

No way in this world is he gonna opt out. He wont get 16M$ per year elsewhere after this season.

Parsons will get the max. If its not from us someone will.

sefant77 · 02-25-2016, 09:36 AM

2017 is the even bigger crazy payday around the league. Cap jumping to 108m.

parsons takes his Player Option and then tries to get the 100+m deal in 2017

EricaLubarsky · 02-25-2016, 09:59 AM

It's funny how the thread has shifted from "he's awful and we're awful" to "he's too good for us and will run away to another team"

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's funny how the thread has shifted from "he's awful and we're awful" to "he's too good for us and will run away to another team"

Apparently the knee jerks both ways...

rimrocker · 02-25-2016, 11:09 AM

Curious what market value will be for Parsons, DWill, Zaza, Dirk, Felton and Powell going into the off-season.

Dwight Howard should be our off-season target after resigning Parsons because Parsons might actually be able to recruit him and DH would be a great fit in Rick's system.
If we can afford 2 Max deals then I'm fine with going into next season with Parsons/Howard/Dirk/Matthews and hopefully DWill as our starting core with Parsons being the catalyst.

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Curious what market value will be for Parsons, DWill, Zaza, Dirk, Felton and Powell going into the off-season.

I doubt Dirk opts out of his final year unless he's looking to extend... Same with Parsons, from everything that he's indicated (and I don't get the sense that anyone is going to be throwing a max contract at him, but there's still enough season left for Chandler to prove me wrong...)

Powell is a RFA and hasn't exactly been lighting it up lately, so I doubt teams are going to be trying to pry him away from us... The bigger question is how much do we value him?

Felton is probably a goner unless we somehow unload Harris or Barea... We just have too many mediocre tweener-guards on this roster right now.

Deron will absolutely opt out of his $5.6m player option, but I'm not sure what the market is going to be for him... I mean, if a headcase like Rondo can earn $9.5m this season, then I can see D-Will going in the $10-15m range with the cap spike. I'd take him for 10, but 15 is probably too much for an aging PG with declining skills (although this may be one position that we have to overpay for this summer, given the market -- Mike Conley is literally the only non-restricted PG that I like better than Williams).

Zaza is the big question mark... He barely missed out on being an All-Star, but his success is very much the product of Carlisle's system... Although a lot of GMs around the league don't seem to understand how that works -- they're just going to see a double-double big man and probably end up overpaying for him... And if/when he does get overpaid this summer, I say let someone else do it. I'd love to have him as a backup to someone like Dwight Howard, but we definitely shouldn't overpay to keep him as our starting center.

rimrocker · 02-25-2016, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I doubt Dirk opts out of his final year unless he's looking to extend... Same with Parsons, from everything that he's indicated (and I don't get the sense that anyone is going to be throwing a max contract at him, but there's still enough season left for Chandler to prove me wrong...)

Powell is a RFA and hasn't exactly been lighting it up lately, so I doubt teams are going to be trying to pry him away from us... The bigger question is how much do we value him?

Felton is probably a goner unless we somehow unload Harris or Barea... We just have too many mediocre tweener-guards on this roster right now.

Deron will absolutely opt out of his $5.6m player option, but I'm not sure what the market is going to be for him... I mean, if a headcase like Rondo can earn $9.5m this season, then I can see D-Will going in the $10-15m range with the cap spike. I'd take him for 10, but 15 is probably too much for an aging PG with declining skills (although this may be one position that we have to overpay for this summer, given the market -- Mike Conley is literally the only non-restricted PG that I like better than Williams).

Zaza is the big question mark... He barely missed out on being an All-Star, but his success is very much the product of Carlisle's system... Although a lot of GMs around the league don't seem to understand how that works -- they're just going to see a double-double big man and probably end up overpaying for him... And if/when he does get overpaid this summer, I say let someone else do it. I'd love to have him as a backup to someone like Dwight Howard, but we definitely shouldn't overpay to keep him as our starting center.

So how does the whole Bird's rights thing work?
I'm under the impression we have Bird's rights on Powell and Zaza but honestly I don't have a clue how that whole thing works. My understanding is that if we trade for a player under contract we have Bird's rights or early Bird's rights (whatever that means).
Please excuse my ignorance on this subject (and many others) but I view basketball more from a coaches' lens than a GM's.

Bryan_Wilson · 02-25-2016, 04:17 PM

Quote:

LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This exception allows teams to exceed the cap in order to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. Teams are said to have "Bird rights" to players who qualify. To qualify for this exception a player essentially must play for three seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent, however there are nuances to this rule, which are explained in question number 33. This means a player can qualify by playing under three consecutive one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any equivalent combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Larry Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to five years in length, with raises up to 7.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception is formally a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception.

Quote:

EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. It also allows teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own free agents, but with more limited contracts than the Larry Bird exception. To qualify for this exception the player must play for two seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent (see question number 33 for details and nuances to this rule). A team may use the Early Bird exception to re-sign its own free agent for up to 175% of his salary in the previous season2 (not over the maximum salary, of course) or 104.5% of the average salary in the previous season, whichever is greater (see question number 32 for the definition of "average salary"). Early Bird contracts must be at least two seasons in length, which prevents teams from using the Early Bird to sign a one-year contract, then signing the same player with the full Larry Bird exception the following season. Early Bird contracts can be up to four years in length, with raises up to 7.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract. Early Bird is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception, and qualifying players are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA.

If the player is a restricted free agent with two years of service and qualifies for the Early Bird exception, then the player's prior team may use the Early Bird exception to match an offer sheet he receives from another team (see question numbers 44 and 45). This is true even if the starting salary for the Early Bird exception is lower than the starting salary in the offer sheet, which is based on the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

A team can renounce its Early Bird rights to a player, and instead re-sign him with the Non-Bird exception (see below). They might do this in order to sign the player to a one-year contract, instead of the minimum two years required by the Early Bird exception.

Quote:

33. How long must a player be with one team before the Larry Bird exception can be used?

The basic idea is that a player must play for the same team for three seasons for his team to gain Bird rights (two seasons for Early Bird rights). It can be a single three-year contract, a series of three one-year contracts, or any combination that adds up to three seasons (or two for Early Bird). However there are a number of complications:

**When a player is traded, his new team inherits his Bird rights. For example, if a player signs a three-year contract, plays two and a half seasons with that team, and is traded at the trade deadline in the third season, then his new team has full Bird rights following the third season.
**The first season of the three-year tenure doesn't have to be a full season. If a player signs midseason in year one, then plays for two additional full seasons, his team will have full Bird rights following the third season.
**The player must complete his contract immediately prior to becoming a free agent, which essentially means he can't have cleared waivers. If he signs a series of contracts, then this only applies to the last contract. If a team signs a player and waives him after one game, signs and waives him after one game again the next year, and in the third year signs him and keeps him the entire season (assuming he didn't sign elsewhere during those three seasons), then they will have full Bird rights following the third season.
**The same is true for Early Bird rights. For example the Chicago Bulls signed John Lucas III to a one-year contract for 2010-11, but waived him in October, 2010. They signed him again to a non-guaranteed contract in November 2010, but waived him again in January 2011 (just before the league wide contract guarantee date). They signed him again in March 2011 to a two-year contract (with a team option for 2011-12, which the Bulls picked-up). Despite having three contracts and being waived twice over a two-year period, the Bulls have Early Bird rights to Lucas in 2012.
**Once Bird rights are established, they don't go away unless the player is renounced or signs with another NBA team. This means teams retain Bird rights to many players who have long since retired, and could still use those Bird rights to re-sign such a player if that player attempts a comeback (but not for a sign-and-trade transaction -- see question number 102 for details).
**If the player is out of the NBA for at least one season before re-signing, the clock resets when he re-signs with his prior team. This is because Bird rights are established on the basis of the immediately preceding three (or two) seasons when a player becomes a free agent. For example, if a team had Larry Bird rights to a free agent in 2011 and that player signed overseas for 2011-12, then the team still has full Bird rights if the player returns to the NBA in 2012 (because when the player became a free agent in 2012 they had full Bird rights, and those rights didn't go away when the player signed outside the NBA). However, if that player signs a one-year contract with his previous NBA team for 2012-13 then the clock resets, and the team will have only Non-Bird rights in 2013 -- because the player becomes a free agent again in 2013, so his Bird status is re-evaluated on the basis of the 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons. Since the player did not play for the team in 2011-12, the one-year version of Bird rights (non-Bird) is awarded.
**The clock resets when the player signs with a different NBA team as a free agent. An interesting case occurred in the 2008-09 season with Antonio McDyess, who had played exclusively for the Pistons since the 2004-05 season. In 2008-09 the Pistons traded him to the Nuggets, the Nuggets waived him, and he re-signed with the Pistons. Even though he only signed contracts with the Pistons and he completed his last contract without being waived, his Bird clock reset when he re-signed with the Pistons because he changed teams as a free agent.
**If a player is waived and is claimed by another team before he clears waivers, his Bird clock does not reset. This was settled in an arbitration decision in June, 2012. However, players who are waived and claimed by another team do not retain full Bird rights unless the player was waived through the Amnesty provision (see question number 69).
**If a player is selected in an expansion draft, then his Bird clock resets.
**Bird rights do not exist if the player's last contract was a 10-day contract (see question number 80). However, if the player's last contract was not a 10-day contract, then any preceding 10-day contracts could count toward Bird rights. For example, if a player signs only a 10-day contract in 2012-13, and a regular, one-season contract for 2013-14, then he is an Early Bird free agent in 2014.
**If a team renounces a player (see question number 41), they can't use the Bird exception to re-sign him. However, if that team then re-signs the player by some other means (for example, with cap room), the team reclaims its Bird rights.

The biggest difference is Early Bird is 2 years of service with one team(or traded contract) and cannot receive a contract longer than 4 years and cannot be shorter than 2 years. Full Bird is 3 years with one team(or traded contract) and can receive a 5 year max and a 1 year deal as well.

Cap holds in free agency work as such(since it's relevant to looking at bird and such)-

**Larry Bird [not coming off rookie scale contract] 150%-190% of his previous salary depending on the previous salary falling at(or above) or below the average nba salary.(190% below 150% at or above)
**Larry Bird [following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract] Same as above but the modifiers are 200% and 250% respectively.
**Larry Bird [following the 2nd or third season of his rookie scale contract] The maximum salary the team can offer him
**Any other Bird(non rookie) 130% of previous salary
**Any non bird(1 year) 120% of previous salary

-Also cap holds cannot exceed a players maximum salary nor can they be less than his minimum salary.

We have early bird on Powell, and we have full bird on zaza.
Source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

rimrocker · 02-25-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

The biggest difference is Early Bird is 2 years of service with one team(or traded contract) and cannot receive a contract longer than 4 years and cannot be shorter than 2 years. Full Bird is 3 years with one team(or traded contract) and can receive a 5 year max and a 1 year deal as well.

Cap holds in free agency work as such(since it's relevant to looking at bird and such)-

**Larry Bird [not coming off rookie scale contract] 150%-190% of his previous salary depending on the previous salary falling at(or above) or below the average nba salary.(190% below 150% at or above)
**Larry Bird [following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract] Same as above but the modifiers are 200% and 250% respectively.
**Larry Bird [following the 2nd or third season of his rookie scale contract] The maximum salary the team can offer him
**Any other Bird(non rookie) 130% of previous salary
**Any non bird(1 year) 120% of previous salary

-Also cap holds cannot exceed a players maximum salary nor can they be less than his minimum salary.

We have early bird on Powell, and we have full bird on zaza.
Source: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

A lot of good info....thanks for clearing that up!!!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2016, 12:44 PM

4/80 is about right. No way he takes less than Wes Matthews so 18 mil a year is the starting point.

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

4/80 is about right. No way he takes less than Wes Matthews so 18 mil a year is the starting point.

Price doesn't concern me as much as timing -- does he opt out this summer, or does he wait until 2017 to get a new contract? I mean, his player option is basically in the same ballpark as what he wants to get paid anyway... So does he wait until the cap goes nuclear in 2017 ($108m!), possibly earning an even bigger contract, or does he cash in now so he doesn't risk losing his payday to a catastrophic injury next season?

Safe money or big(ger) money?

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2016, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Price doesn't concern me as much as timing -- does he opt out this summer, or does he wait until 2017 to get a new contract? I mean, his player option is basically in the same ballpark as what he wants to get paid anyway... So does he wait until the cap goes nuclear in 2017 ($108m!), possibly earning an even bigger contract, or does he cash in now so he doesn't risk losing his payday to a catastrophic injury next season?

Safe money or big(ger) money?

If he thinks he can get 20 mil a year now, then I think it foolish to wait. Remember, he did just have knee surgery and if complications arise then his stock could tank.

Underdog · 02-25-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If he thinks he can get 20 mil a year now, then I think it foolish to wait. Remember, he did just have knee surgery and if complications arise then his stock could tank.

Yeah, $20m this summer still seems like a helluva stretch for a guy who has zero All-Star appearances... That's why it could be beneficial for him to wait until 2017 when the cap goes up -- it gives him another year to improve, or at the very least it allows the cap to swell to the point where $20m doesn't sound so far-fetched for a player of his caliber.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2016, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, $20m this summer still seems like a helluva stretch for a guy who has zero All-Star appearances... That's why it could be beneficial for him to wait until 2017 when the cap goes up -- it gives him another year to improve, or at the very least it allows the cap to swell to the point where $20m doesn't sound so far-fetched for a player of his caliber.

If there is one thing that seems to be true lately with FA it is teams willing to spend...esp with the cap going up. Lots of teams will have space to offer. And the teams that lose out on Durant will be giving a good look at Parsons.

TheSportyChannel · 02-25-2016, 06:33 PM

Thanks for the good laugh all season long to all you who actually thought Parsons is a 20+ million dollar guy. He isn't even worth what he's getting paid now. He should opt out and resign for 3 years 27 million and can be the 3rd or 4th wheel without much expectations.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSportyChannel

Thanks for the good laugh all season long to all you who actually thought Parsons is a 20+ million dollar guy. He isn't even worth what he's getting paid now. He should opt out and resign for 3 years 27 million and can be the 3rd or 4th wheel without much expectations.

A good laugh is watching a reject from db.com come here and provide posts from there like we care.

And even funnier is thinking Parsons is worth 3/27.

spreedom · 02-25-2016, 08:03 PM

Parsons could have sat this entire season out and would still get more than $27M guaranteed.

Please stop feeding/quoting the troll.

Budapest Maverick · 02-29-2016, 08:35 AM

Well he is playing like an All-Star since January, that's for sure. I don't see him taking any less than 20 mill/year either. Is he worth that? Probably not, but what you're gonna do? It's not like players are lining up to play for us.

Melonhead · 02-29-2016, 10:30 PM

At this point, you have to pay Parsons what he wants. To echo another poster, its not like the Mavs have many players dying to come here. In addition, Parsons is more of the nba clique than Dirk ever was, and you know he will convince a player or two to come to Dallas. Deandre didnt work out, but it was for the best.

Agreed with whoever said teams will definitely spend to get Parsons. Cant let him get away.

Crazy what a couple of months of consistency will do. Ive done a 180 on him every since he arrived in dallas.

BPo001 · 03-01-2016, 11:15 AM

Those close to the situation consider his hometown Magic to be the biggest threat to steal Parsons from the Mavs. With its pre-deadline dealing, Orlando cleared enough cap space to sign two players to max contracts. Sources anticipate that the Magic will aggressively pursue Parsons.
– via ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...sons-offseason

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-01-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Those close to the situation consider his hometown Magic to be the biggest threat to steal Parsons from the Mavs. With its pre-deadline dealing, Orlando cleared enough cap space to sign two players to max contracts. Sources anticipate that the Magic will aggressively pursue Parsons.
– via ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...sons-offseason

Which is why logic states that it only takes one team to offer him the max for him to be worth the max.

Underdog · 03-01-2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Those close to the situation consider his hometown Magic to be the biggest threat to steal Parsons from the Mavs. With its pre-deadline dealing, Orlando cleared enough cap space to sign two players to max contracts. Sources anticipate that the Magic will aggressively pursue Parsons.
– via ESPN.com

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...sons-offseason

How many NBA players have been lured back to their hometown when the team is garbage? I can probably count them on my tail...

(hint: I don't have a tail)

Skywalker · 03-01-2016, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

(hint: I don't have a tail)

Wow, talk about a disappointing twist.

DirkFTW · 03-01-2016, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

How many NBA players have been lured back to their hometown when the team is garbage? I can probably count them on my tail...

(hint: I don't have a tail)

rimrocker · 03-01-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

How many NBA players have been lured back to their hometown when the team is garbage? I can probably count them on my tail...

Well that garbage team beat a team that lured one of it's hometown players last off-season so does that make that team less than garbage?

UDog better start growing a tail

DevinHarriswillstart · 03-01-2016, 03:10 PM

Never say never when it comes to free agency. There are always surprises and lots of teams willing to spend this summer. I guarantee Parsons has more than just Orlando making an offer anyway.

Underdog · 03-01-2016, 06:27 PM

@espn_macmahon: Carlisle: "I love Parsons. One of my all-time favorites to work with. A franchise-caliber player in the making." http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14871511 …

rimrocker · 03-01-2016, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@espn_macmahon: Carlisle: "I love Parsons. One of my all-time favorites to work with. A franchise-caliber player in the making." http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14871511 …

Looks like we will be giving him a max deal if he remains healthy.
Orlando looks to be our biggest competitor....especially with ability for 2 max deals.

If there is any way we can resign CP and then sign Howard, Mavs have to do it if they want any chance to remain competitive.

spreedom · 03-01-2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Looks like we will be giving him a max deal if he remains healthy.
Orlando looks to be our biggest competitor....especially with ability for 2 max deals.

If there is any way we can resign CP and then sign Howard, Mavs have to do it if they want any chance to remain competitive.

Assuming Dirk and D-Will opt in (Dirk likely IMO, no clue on Deron) we'd have about $44M in cap space if we renounced everybody else with a cap hold. I'd guess we'd need to trade either Barea or Harris (both?) if we wanted two "max" spots for sure.

Underdog · 03-01-2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Assuming Dirk and D-Will opt in (Dirk likely IMO, no clue on Deron) we'd have about $44M in cap space if we renounced everybody else with a cap hold. I'd guess we'd need to trade either Barea or Harris (both?) if we wanted two "max" spots for sure.

No chance that Deron opts-in on his $5.6m PO unless he truly believes that Dallas is a place he can compete for a ring (which would take an offseason power-move to pull off...)

EricaLubarsky · 03-01-2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No chance that Deron opts-in on his $5.6m PO unless he truly believes that Dallas is a place he can compete for a ring (which would take an offseason power-move to pull off...)

D-will is much more motivated by getting comfy and having fun. He's a vet whose served his time. I also don't think he'd get much more than his PO.

But who knows? He's injury prone. Maybe his agent will tell him to look for a fat retirement salary package a la Chandler. Well wish him well and watch him break down like Tyson

Hansolo · 03-02-2016, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

No chance that Deron opts-in on his $5.6m PO unless he truly believes that Dallas is a place he can compete for a ring (which would take an offseason power-move to pull off...)

Check yer private messages

And I hope we can keep Deron!

Underdog · 03-01-2016, 08:40 PM

@MFollowill: Chandler Parsons has moved into the top 10 in 3pt%...10th in the league at 41.4% going into tonight. (51% in last 19 games)

TheSportyChannel · 03-01-2016, 09:57 PM

Mavs front office would be complete idiots if they offer Parsons the full Max which is like 24 million a year. This will give the mavs a less chance to sign free agents like Mike Conley or Dwight Howard. Might not even be able to resign Deron Willams who is known to be a money hungry. Parsons should opt in or resign somewhere in the range of 4 years 48 million. He is not worth Dirk level money cause he can't be a Dirk level #1 scorer. No more signing good not great players to max contracts.