Hope and Change Obama Style

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

<snip>
the good question is if you disagree with anything that obama has said (meaning his actual words mind you) in either of the articles....I sure don't find any fault with what he has said.

That isn't my question about agreeing or disagreeing with his words.

My question is: Do you use physical force or words?

This is where the bottom line gets too. If genocide is happening, do you use words and threats to stop it, or do you take action.

IMO -- changing attitudes changes big picture, but changing people changes the present issue. In other words, war only allows you the ability to teach younger people your ways and get them on board with you. War doesn't solve anything except that it resolves the individual issues with the current people that won't change. Example: Saddam would have been just like Castro and thumbed his finger at the US for the rest of his life, IF we just kept talking like we did with Castro and not taken and done it forcefully. With that said, you will never change Iraq with war, but only by working with the younger people there to educate and build something that everyone can be happy with. You will never be able to do this though, as long as some people are in a class system that does not allow them to change classes.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

That isn't my question about agreeing or disagreeing with his words.

My question is: Do you use physical force or words?

This is where the bottom line gets too. If genocide is happening, do you use words and threats to stop it, or do you take action.

imo you must take action if actual genocide is happening. I believe that was the meaning of obama's remarks.

IMO -- changing attitudes changes big picture, but changing people changes the present issue. In other words, war only allows you the ability to teach younger people your ways and get them on board with you. War doesn't solve anything except that it resolves the individual issues with the current people that won't change. Example: Saddam would have been just like Castro and thumbed his finger at the US for the rest of his life, IF we just kept talking like we did with Castro and not taken and done it forcefully. With that said, you will never change Iraq with war, but only by working with the younger people there to educate and build something that everyone can be happy with. You will never be able to do this though, as long as some people are in a class system that does not allow them to change classes.

to stop genocide it typically will take armed intervention. to stop genocide from reoccurring it takes winning the "hearts and minds" as they say, removing the mindset of the players to view murder as acceptable.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

imo you must take action if actual genocide is happening. I believe that was the meaning of obama's remarks.



to stop genocide it typically will take armed intervention. to stop genocide from reoccurring it takes winning the "hearts and minds" as they say, removing the mindset of the players to view murder as acceptable.

So although we should be removing the military from Iraq, we should be moving them into Darfur and the Congo? We should also be looking into Tibet.

Are you actually saying this?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

So although we should be removing the military from Iraq, we should be moving them into Darfur and the Congo? We should also be looking into Tibet.

Are you actually saying this?

I'm not of the opinion that any of the above fits the definition of genocide.