So the "hussein" part of Barack Hussein Obama is not relevant?

[dude1394]

I don't know...seems so.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...0217_03_18.asp

WASHINGTON — The United States has diverted a shipment of bunker-busters designated for Israel.

Officials said the U.S. military was ordered to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases. "This was a political decision," an official said.

In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama.

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.
"All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly."

Under the plan, the U.S. military was to have stored 195 BLU-110 and 192 BLU-117 munitions in unspecified air force bases in Israel. The U.S. military uses four Israeli bases for the storage of about $400 million worth of pre-positioned equipment meant for use by either Washington or Jerusalem in any regional war.

In January 2010, the administration agreed to an Israeli request to double the amount of U.S. military stockpiles to $800 million. Officials said the bunker-busters as well as Patriot missile interceptors were included in the agreement.

The decision to divert the BLU munitions was taken amid the crisis between Israel and the United States over planned construction of Jewish homes in Jerusalem. The administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has warned that Washington could reduce military aid to Israel because of its construction policy.

In 2007, after its war in Lebanon, Israel requested 2,000 BLU-109 live bombs from the United States. The 2,000-pound bomb, produced by Boeing and coupled with a laser guidance kit, was designed to penetrate concrete bunkers and other underground hardened sites.

Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, was quoted as saying that his country faced its biggest crisis with the United States since 1975. A pro-Israel lobbyist said Oren was referring to the current U.S. embargo, which echoed a decision taken 35 years ago by then-President Gerald Ford after Israel's refusal to withdraw from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. Oren has since denied the remark.

[Underdog]

Secret Muslim Conspiracy!




(I wonder if America was ever this afraid of Jimmy Carter?)

[chumdawg]

You'd have to describe how you think it's relevant here.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You'd have to describe how you think it's relevant here.

Seems obvious to me.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Seems obvious to me.

Really? That surprises me, coming from you. You are normally an insistently rational thinker.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Really? That surprises me, coming from you. You are normally an insistently rational thinker.

yeah, well. . . It would surprise me if you really didn't see a connection here. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if you just pretended not to see a connection.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

yeah, well. . . It would surprise me if you really didn't see a connection here. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if you just pretended not to see a connection.

I don't know enough about it one way or the other. In cases like that, the last thing I want to do is jump to conclusions.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't know enough about it one way or the other. In cases like that, the last thing I want to do is jump to conclusions.

that's what I thought

[Dirkadirkastan]

First person to post anything of substance loses.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

that's what I thought

That's what you thought.

You know, Obama's closest advisors are Jews. Do you take that at all into consideration when you read a story like this, or do you just go, "Oh, there's go that Hussein again!"

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's what you thought.

You know, Obama's closest advisors are Jews. Do you take that at all into consideration when you read a story like this, or do you just go, "Oh, there's go that Hussein again!"

I ask what's going to be necessary to see the authors point (which I don't think really is about the name).

Do you think all Jews are pro-Israel? Or if they are, that Obama would listen and follow the advice of his advisors on all issues? If he has some that are anti-Israel among his "closest advisors" would you eat your hat? More to the point: Do you really think there to be so little basis in reality for questioning Obama's support of Israel that you can't see how someone can draw on his middle name as a hook?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I ask what's going to be necessary to see the authors point (which I don't think really is about the name).

Do you think all Jews are pro-Israel? Or if they are, that Obama would listen and follow the advice of his advisors on all issues? If he has some that are anti-Israel among his "closest advisors" would you eat your hat? More to the point: Do you really think there to be so little basis in reality for questioning Obama's support of Israel that you can't see how someone can draw on his middle name as a hook?

I would assume that the great majority of Jews are pro-Israel. I would also assume that Obama's Jewish advisors are pro-Israel.

However, if it is true what you suggest, that even some Jews are anti-Israel...then what does Obama's name have to do with the discussion?

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I would assume that the great majority of Jews are pro-Israel. I would also assume that Obama's Jewish advisors are pro-Israel.

Why would you assume that, and what about his non-Jewish advisors? If the presence of Jews in his list of advisors is somehow evidence of Obama's attitude toward Israel, then wouldn't anti-Israel advisors also be evidence of his attitude?

However, if it is true what you suggest, that even some Jews are anti-Israel...then what does Obama's name have to do with the discussion?

I'm going to assume you are pretending and leave it at that.

[Underdog]

Obama conspiring against Israel because his middle name is "Hussein" = logical

Bush conspiring against America because he has huge monetary interests in Middle Eastern oil companies = illogical


Gotcha...

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Obama conspiring against Israel because his middle name is "Hussein" = logical

right. That's the point. Names are causal agents.

Bush conspiring against America because he has huge monetary interests in Middle Eastern oil companies

If anyone tells you this is different than, "Oh, there's go that Hussein again," you need to kick them in the groin for being stupid

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Why would you assume that, and what about his non-Jewish advisors? If the presence of Jews in his list of advisors is somehow evidence of Obama's attitude toward Israel, then wouldn't anti-Israel advisors also be evidence of his attitude?

Why would I assume that the great majority of Jews are pro-Israel? Because it fits with my schema, and if it's in reality something otherwise, then I just don't know any better.

As for what his having Jews as close advisors is evidence of...I'm not saying it's evidence of anything. I'm also saying his name is not evidence of anything. But I'm asking you to consider the former, if you believe the latter is "proof enough" that Obama is anti-Israel.

But now, then, I am realizing that evidently there is some disconnect between being "anti-Israel" and "anti-Jew" or even "not Jewish." That's what you're saying, right? If that's the case, then yes, my argument does not hold.

I'm going to assume you are pretending and leave it at that.

No, I'm certainly not pretending. Certainly not. My point is, if even some Jews are known to be anti-Israel (when we know that a great many Jews are pro-Israel), then it should logically follow that some people named Hussein are not anti-Israel (even when we know that a great many with that name are). In fact, being Jewish seems to me a much stronger identifier than being named Hussein.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Why would I assume that the great majority of Jews are pro-Israel?

the vast majority of jews are Obama's closest advisors?

As for what his having Jews as close advisors is evidence of...I'm not saying it's evidence of anything.

then why bring it up?

I'm also saying his name is not evidence of anything. But I'm asking you to consider the former, if you believe the latter is "proof enough" that Obama is anti-Israel.

where did "proof enough" come from?

But now, then, I am realizing that evidently there is some disconnect between being "anti-Israel" and "anti-Jew" or even "not Jewish." That's what you're saying, right?

I've got not idea what you are saying here.

No, I'm certainly not pretending. Certainly not. My point is, if even some Jews are known to be anti-Israel (when we know that a great many Jews are pro-Israel), then it should logically follow that some people named Hussein are not anti-Israel (even when we know that a great many with that name are). In fact, being Jewish seems to me a much stronger identifier than being named Hussein.

you are pretending not to know how dude thinks it's relevant.
Maybe instead of labeling the ethnicity (or even political views) of his advisors, or relying on how he spells his middle name, maybe, just maybe, we should look at what he does.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

you are pretending not to know how dude thinks it's relevant.
Maybe instead of labeling the ethnicity (or even political views) of his advisors, or relying on how he spells his middle name, maybe, just maybe, we should look at what he does.

Sorry...I know how he *thinks* it's relevant. If that's what we've been debating, then we were wasting time. You and I seem to agree on the thing that made me want to reply to this thread in the first place (which, basically, is to answer "that's right, it's not" to thread title).

[MavsFTR]

I wish his middle name was relevant. Sadly, that is not the case.

[dude1394]

The "hints" just keep on coming.

The Obama administration is now denying U.S. visas to Israeli scientists who work at that nation’s Dimona nuclear reactor. This startling reversal of traditional policy was reported April 7, 2010, in the Israeli website/newspaper NRG/Maariv (link to the original Hebrew here and to an exclusive Pajamas Media translation here).
This could be yet another flashpoint in the increasingly sensitive relations between the administration, the American Jewish community, and Israel. The revelation in Maariv came only a day before the arrival in New York of Tariq Ramadan — controversial grandson of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al Banna — whose visa was reportedly championed by Secretary of State Clinton. Yesterday as well, new rules disavowing the term “Islamic radicalism” were announced by Secretary of Defense Gates.
According to Maariv: “…. workers at the Dimona reactor who submitted VISA requests to visit the United States for ongoing university education in Physics, Chemistry and Nuclear Engineering — have all been rejected, specifically because of their association with the Dimona reactor. This is a new policy decision of the Obama administration, since there never used to be an issue with the reactor’s workers from study in the USA, and till recently, they received VISAs and studied in the USA.”
Israeli defense officials are stating these workers have no criminal records in the U.S. or Israel and have been singled out purely because of their place of employment. Moreover, nuclear materials for the Dimona reactor apparently do not come from the U.S. Zeev Alfasi — head of nuclear engineering at Israel’s Ben Gurion University — states that “the United States doesn’t sell anything nuclear-related to the Dimona reactor, and that means absolutely nothing. Radiation detectors, for example, have to be purchased now in France because the USA refuses to sell these to Israel.”
Pajamas Media contacted the U.S. Department of State concerning this new visa policy toward Israeli scientists. We were told by their press department that federal law prohibits them from discussing individual visa cases.

[Jack.Kerr]

March 26, 2010
Next Year in the White House: A Seder Tradition
By JODI KANTOR
WASHINGTON — One evening in April 2008, three low-level staff members from the Obama presidential campaign — a baggage handler, a videographer and an advance man — gathered in the windowless basement of a Pennsylvania hotel for an improvised Passover Seder.

The day had been long, the hour was late, and the young men had not been home in months. So they had cadged some matzo and Manischewitz wine, hoping to create some semblance of the holiday.

Suddenly they heard a familiar voice. “Hey, is this the Seder?” Barack Obama asked, entering the room.

So begins the story of the Obama Seder, now one of the newest, most intimate and least likely of White House traditions. When Passover begins at sunset on Monday evening, Mr. Obama and about 20 others will gather for a ritual that neither the rabbinic sages nor the founding fathers would recognize.

In the Old Family Dining Room, under sparkling chandeliers and portraits of former first ladies, the mostly Jewish and African-American guests will recite prayers and retell the biblical story of slavery and liberation, ending with the traditional declaration “Next year in Jerusalem.” (Never mind the current chill in the administration’s relationship with Israel.)

Top aides like David Axelrod and Valerie Jarrett will attend, but so will assistants like 24-year-old Herbie Ziskend. White House chefs will prepare Jewish participants’ family recipes, even rendering chicken fat — better known as schmaltz — for just the right matzo ball flavor.

If last year is any guide, Malia and Sasha Obama will take on the duties of Jewish children, asking four questions about the night’s purpose — along with a few of their own — and scrambling to find matzo hidden in the gleaming antique furniture.

That event was the first presidential Seder, and also probably “the first time in history that gefilte fish had been placed on White House dishware,” said Eric Lesser, the former baggage handler, who organizes each year’s ritual.

As in many Jewish households, the Obama Seder seems to take on new meaning each year, depending on what is happening in the world and in participants’ lives (for this group, the former is often the same as the latter).

The first one took place at the bleakest point of the campaign, the long prelude to the Pennsylvania primary, which was dominated by a furor over Mr. Obama’s former pastor. “We were in the desert, so to speak,” remembered Arun Chaudhary, then and now Mr. Obama’s videographer, who grew up attending Seders with his half-Jewish, half-Indian family.

No one led the proceedings; everyone took turns reading aloud. Mr. Obama had brought Reggie Love, his personal aide, Ms. Jarrett and Eric Whitaker, another close friend, all African-American. Jennifer Psaki, the traveling press secretary, and Samantha Tubman, a press assistant, filtered in. Neither had ever been to a Seder, but they knew the Exodus story, Ms. Psaki from Catholic school and Ms. Tubman from childhood Sundays at black churches.

They peppered the outnumbered Jews at the table with questions, which the young men sometimes struggled to answer. “We’re not exactly crack Hebrew scholars,” said Mr. Lesser, now an assistant to Mr. Axelrod.

Participants remember the evening as a rare moment of calm, an escape from the din of airplanes and rallies. As the tale of the Israelites unfolded, the campaign team half-jokingly identified with their plight — one day, they too would be free. At the close of the Seder, Mr. Obama added his own ending — “Next year in the White House!”

Indeed, the group, with a few additions, has now made the Seder an Executive Mansion tradition. (No one considered inviting prominent rabbis or other Jewish leaders; it is a private event.)

But maintaining the original humble feel has been easier said than done.

Ms. Tubman and Desirée Rogers, then the White House social secretary, tried to plan an informal meal last year, with little or even no wait staff required. White House ushers reacted with what seemed like polite horror. The president and the first lady simply do not serve themselves, they explained. The two sides negotiated a compromise: the gefilte fish would be preplated, the brisket passed family-style.

Then came what is now remembered as the Macaroon Security Standoff. At 6:30, with the Seder about to start, Neil Cohen, the husband of Michelle Obama’s friend and adviser Susan Sher, was stuck at the gate bearing flourless cookies he had brought from Chicago. They were kosher for Passover, but not kosher with the Secret Service, which does not allow food into the building.

Offering to help, the president walked to the North Portico and peered out the door, startling tourists. He volunteered to go all the way to the gates, but advisers stopped him, fearing that would cause a ruckus. Everyone seemed momentarily befuddled. Could the commander in chief not summon a plate of cookies to his table? Finally, Mr. Love ran outside to clear them.

Mr. Obama began the Seder by invoking the universality of the holiday’s themes of struggle and liberation. Malia and Sasha quickly found the hidden matzo and tucked it away again, so cleverly that Mr. Ziskend, the former advance man, needed 45 minutes to locate it. At the Seder’s close, the group opened a door and sang to the prophet Elijah.

In preparation for this year’s gathering, Mr. Lesser and others have again been collecting recipes from the guests, including matzo ball instructions from Patricia Winter, the mother of Melissa Winter, Mrs. Obama’s deputy chief of staff.

“We like soft (not hard) matzo balls,” Mrs. Winter warned in a note to the White House chefs, instructing them to buy mix but doctor it. Use three eggs, not two, she told them; substitute schmaltz for vegetable oil, and refrigerate them for a day before serving (but not in the soup).

The Seder originated with Jewish staff members on the campaign trail who could not go home, but now some celebrate at the White House by choice. Participants say their ties are practically familial now anyway. “Some of the most challenging experiences of our life we’ve shared together,” Ms. Jarrett said.

No one yet knows exactly what themes will emerge this year. Maybe “taking care of people who can’t take care of themselves and health care reform,” suggested Ms. Sher, now Mrs. Obama’s chief of staff.

The evening might also reflect a group that has settled into the White House and a staff more familiar with the new custom. Last week, Ms. Sher was leaving the East Wing when a guard stopped her.

“Hey, are you bringing macaroons again this year?” he asked.

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Was this a Seder meal...or a Spring Holiday meal?