Finley for Van Exel

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster

No what's ridiculous is Finley's contract. If he regains his form from last year (or the year before that) fine, BUT if he doesn't, we have a SG-SF with a HUGE contract who no one wants because his position is the easiest to replace, AND, when we have to sign Nash at the end of the year, who's going to go? Can Cuban have FIVE mega contracts on this team?

The great thing about this site is how everyone is here to talk basketball rather than insult, belittle, & offend anyone who is here to discuss. Does it really matter what your basketball IQ is? There are too many people here who are too quick to criticize; this is the real reason people don't want to post here.

Question. Is Fin's contract gonna prevent us from signing anyone? No
Just ad the contracts of Dirk, Steve's new contract (whatever that may be), Jamison & Walker & you are above the salery cap. Fins contract size has no berring on what moves the Mavs make. Cubes is paying that contract, not me. If gettting rid of Fin's contract could help us land a FA big man, I might be for it, but it wont. Fin has been playing great over the last few games at both ends of the floor. Want proof? Look at Jalen's stat line tonight. Bottom line is, If the Mavs could give Fins contract away right now, the Mavs would still be over the cap.

[jimmychipwood]

Murph, I think you're right, and let me just say, I'm learning.

I often think of trades and acquisitions within my fundamental framework of basketball. What I need to remember is that even if Nelly had a Shaq or a Duncan, he would still try and do something unorthodox, such as start 4 guards around the big guy (i.e. small ball).

I am not necessarily complaining, just having to remember that Nelly doesn't think like the Phil Jacksons, Red Auerbachs, or Pat Rileys of the world.

I hope his way works one day.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Whose ever idea it was to add a Trade and Draft board to this site is a genius.

[kingrex]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Whose ever idea it was to add a Trade and Draft board to this site is a genius.

Do I detect some sarcasm.

Well, if I do, then I disagree. I think this is a great addition. It keeps all "tradetalkers" in one forum category and doesn't clutter the other categories. I like trade talk at times, but not always, so if I need a trade talk fix, I can go to this category anytime.

Kudos to the moderators for this move.

[jimmychipwood]

I agree, I think there are two types. Those that love the day to day management of the team, and those that would rather figure out how to make the team better in the long run.

Covey calls it Management vs. Leadership. Both are important, but different people tend to prefer to different tasks.

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: kingrex

Do I detect some sarcasm.

Well, if I do, then I disagree. I think this is a great addition. It keeps all "tradetalkers" in one forum category and doesn't clutter the other categories. I like trade talk at times, but not always, so if I need a trade talk fix, I can go to this category anytime.

Kudos to the moderators for this move.

Far from it. I really love the addition. I'm rarely in this section and some of this stuff in here can upset you for how stupid they are. It's great to have them in one section were you can just ingore htem if you don't want to read them.

[sike]

Far from it. I really love the addition. I'm rarely in this section and some of this stuff in here can upset you for how stupid they are. It's great to have them in one section were you can just ingore htem if you don't want to read them.

So we are content to have this board be the "dont go there, thats where the stupid people go" place....I'd rather just not allow stupid people to post.....I think the mods should lure the numorus fans of stupid trades into a large cavern and roll an even larger stone over the entrance...thus giving our forum back to the mentally stable and basketball intelligent!....but no one listens to me.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[u2sarajevo]

I cannot believe I missed this thread. The Craptain strikes again!

Finley for VanExel? Mr. Disaster please go back to smoking your crack.



[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[FreshJive]

The Captain never disappoints.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: sike

So we are content to have this board be the "dont go there, thats where the stupid people go" place....I'd rather just not allow stupid people to post.....I think the mods should lure the numorus fans of stupid trades into a large cavern and roll an even larger stone over the entrance...thus giving our forum back to the mentally stable and basketball intelligent!....but no one listens to me.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Sike the other mods and I would like to invite you you to a special get together of Dallas-Mavs.com members at Carlsbad Caverns a week from Saturday.

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[sike]

can some find me a map to Carlsbad???? I cant wait!....wow a special invite just me and the mods!.......[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

seriously though, i guess that we can do nothing about the rediculous nature of some of these proposals...oh well, I guess I'll just stay away....for the most part..

[Captain Disaster]

What the Mavericks lost in the Van Exel trade, warts and all, is someone who can score in pressure situations, someone who can create his own shot AND deliver. There are only a handful of these players in the whole league. Finley is NOT one of these players as evidenced by the last two games; in fact ALL of the road games when the team couldn't score. I was SCREAMING at the tube during the Phoenix game as Finley jacked up jumper after jumper after jumper with NO ONE under the basket. 5 for 14 is ridiculous! But it was the types of shots he was taking. As far as the argument that his contract won't save us from the luxury tax; it will be approaching $20 million dollars in a couple of years! WHO is going to want Fin when we are FORCED to trade him at that point due to his age and declining skills? Also, don't think for a second that Cuban wants to flush $20 mil because he is a nice guy.

[LRB]

CD NVE put in many similiar performances to Fin's shooting performance last year. The big difference was that most of the time Dirk was healthy and NVE refused to pass to Dirk even though Dirk was hot and Nick shot the Mavs into a loss. We needed Fin to shoot, we just needed him to hit more. However there is really no evidence that I can see that if NVE had played in Fin's place that would would have gotten anything other than a L. Even if Nick shot better, his lack or rebounding and defense would whould have made up for whatever he extra he could have brought offensively.

[Captain Disaster]

I totally agree with you concerning Van Exel's shortcomings, BUT, Van Exel helped us win more games than we lost, AND, Fin seems to have regressed this year. I'm still hoping that if we are going to stay with this group for awhile, that Fin, Walker, & Delk will learn to go inside & FINISH dammit! I'm tired of these 3 jacking up jumpshots with no one going for a rebound, OR driving to the hoop and missing right at the hole! Raja Bell, Griffin, & Van Exel could do better than these 3, despite their inadequacies. Yes, Fin has has spurts, but, overall, he seems to be sleepwalking & making mistakes that I've never seen him make. Fin, Walker, and Delk, and BRADLEY are not rookies; why are rookies outplaying them?

[DrtyFlthyNasty]

No what's ridiculous is Finley's contract. If he regains his form from last year (or the year before that) fine, BUT if he doesn't, we have a SG-SF with a HUGE contract who no one wants because his position is the easiest to replace, AND, when we have to sign Nash at the end of the year, who's going to go? Can Cuban have FIVE mega contracts on this team?

The great thing about this site is how everyone is here to talk basketball rather than insult, belittle, & offend anyone who is here to discuss. Does it really matter what your basketball IQ is? There are too many people here who are too quick to criticize; this is the real reason people don't want to post here.

[mavsfan4life]

your a fucking retard! yes, van exel is a badass, but look at what Finley is doing for us right now

[Captain Disaster]

And what's that? He makes $13 million a year; he should be doing a lot more.

Thanks for the wonderful compliment.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
And what's that? He makes $13 million a year; he should be doing a lot more.

Thanks for the wonderful compliment.

No, he shouldn't. That's not his role on this team. He makes $13 million and what he should be doing is fulfilling the role his coach and GM have asked him to do. Cand Fin do this better? Yes. Should he do it better? Yes. But he's not that far off either. Fin's main role is to :

1) play better and good D. He's made lots of improvements here and I'm happy to say when he been playing pretty good especially when he's mainly at the 2.
2) rebound when we need him to. Fin's rebounds are down in general, but he's been there quite often when we've needed him. The truth of the matter is that this team needs his rebounding much less than at any time during his career. But he's been able to deliver some huge rebounds when needed.
3) Score less. Fin has been asked to scale back his game. Instead of throwing a juvenile hissy fit he's taken a mature approach and has done what was asked.
4) Make the outside shot to keep the D honest. Here he's struggled, but so has the team as a whole. He'll come out of it. A lot of it has to do with the team needing to jell. We'd have had worse problems it NVE was here.
5) provide Mature leadership in helping team jell. Doing great.

I just don't get the idiotacy of some people's expecations of player based on their salary. Fin is not expected to lead this team in scoring, rebounds, assists, minutes, FG%, FT%, or 3pt%. When I say is not expected, I mean by his employer, not some ignorant fan. Fin's job is not to please the ignorant masses, but rather like most of us, to please his employer. And damn it if he isn't doing pretty good.

Now as to getting NVE, that has got to be one of the most inane and worthless ideas that I have every wasted brain cells to procss. Let's look at Fin's role and how NVE would do:

1) Worse. NVE has trouble spelling D much less playing it. He actually makes me think I could drag my fat ass out there and if not do better at least not do worse. To call his D inept is kind. He's just flat out not skilled and even with great effort still isn't that good. We'd be in a mell of a hess depending on NVE for D.

2) NVE is shorter, less athletic, and a flat out much worse rebounder. We such here if we have NVE.

3) Score less. Nick did a fairly good job cutting back his game during his time at Dallas. I gotta give him credit, but to do so to the extent Fin is being asked to, no way in hell. During Nicks last few months he kept jacking up tons of ill advised shots. Did this in the playoffs too. Helped us in the 1st 2 series and killed us in the last one. Bottom line is that Nick just isn't as good at doing this and still being able to contribute as Fin is.

4) Fin is struggling mightily and is still shooting better than NVE has for his career. Comparing Fin to NVE's shooting performance this year only widens the gap. NVE has always shot like there has been a perpetual door open.

5) The F'em was nice. But one saying doesn't a leader make. Fin has been and will always be the hear and soul of this team. He's the major leadership force in getting it here. NVE has never accomplished anything like this. It' not that he's a terrible leader, just not in the same class as Fin.

So please, please, please pull that $13 million dollar bug out of you butt and just get over it. If Fin's employers are happy that he's doing what is asked of him why can't you?

[FilthyFinMavs]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
I totally agree with you concerning Van Exel's shortcomings, BUT, Van Exel helped us win more games than we lost, AND, Fin seems to have regressed this year. I'm still hoping that if we are going to stay with this group for awhile, that Fin, Walker, & Delk will learn to go inside & FINISH dammit! I'm tired of these 3 jacking up jumpshots with no one going for a rebound, OR driving to the hoop and missing right at the hole! Raja Bell, Griffin, & Van Exel could do better than these 3, despite their inadequacies. Yes, Fin has has spurts, but, overall, he seems to be sleepwalking & making mistakes that I've never seen him make. Fin, Walker, and Delk, and BRADLEY are not rookies; why are rookies outplaying them?

Post with some sense. Rookies are not outplaying Walker and Fin. It seems all youd o is look at shooting percentage. You fail to realize that Fin is 10th in the league in steals. Something he couldn't even lead this team on last year. He has not regressed. Sure his points may be down just like Shaq and Kobe or any team in this league. It happens when you have alot of talent on one team. It's just the beginning of the seasoen. Expect Fin to play better as the season progresses. Dirk hasn't been playing exception but I don't see you bent on all fours asking for a trade for him. This is just some Fin hate that people still have.


BTW, why in the hell would the Warriors trade for Fin's contract when they just traded away Jamison's? You think they want to benefit you and the Mavs? One thing I hate is when a poster bashes a Mav all thread long but he wants to trade him for a player he feels is better than him. That is just idiotic.

[Captain Disaster]

I actually agree with both of the last two posts to a certain degree; I'm also not necessarily in love with Van Exel. And yes, I recognize both player's shortcomings. And yes, I realize that this trade is just fantasy. However, I'm still highly disappointed in Finley despite LRB's excellent post. Finley's stongest feature is free throw shooting IMO, what he needs to do is: GET TO THE LINE. If he went to the hole with authority consistently, the Mavericks would be a MUCH BETTER team. He continues to jack up shots ala Walker. Earlier in his career, Fin DID go to the hole, and his FG% benefitted as well. I'm not sure if he doesn't go to the hole because:

1. He's developed a bad habit of settling for jumpers.
2. He's a step slower and/or less explosive.
3. His ballhandling skills have declined.
4. He fears contact.
5. He has less stamina.


Or some other reason? I still like Finley, & believe it or not, I would hate to see him go, but he's been very painful to watch for awhile now, and since basketball is a business, there may come a time when he has to go UNLESS he can turn it around quickly. The window of opportunity for a championship will not last forever.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
I actually agree with both of the last two posts to a certain degree; I'm also not necessarily in love with Van Exel. And yes, I recognize both player's shortcomings. And yes, I realize that this trade is just fantasy. However, I'm still highly disappointed in Finley despite LRB's excellent post. Finley's stongest feature is free throw shooting IMO, what he needs to do is: GET TO THE LINE. If he went to the hole with authority consistently, the Mavericks would be a MUCH BETTER team. He continues to jack up shots ala Walker. Earlier in his career, Fin DID go to the hole, and his FG% benefitted as well. I'm not sure if he doesn't go to the hole because:

1. He's developed a bad habit of settling for jumpers.
2. He's a step slower and/or less explosive.
3. His ballhandling skills have declined.
4. He fears contact.
5. He has less stamina.


Or some other reason? I still like Finley, & believe it or not, I would hate to see him go, but he's been very painful to watch for awhile now, and since basketball is a business, there may come a time when he has to go UNLESS he can turn it around quickly. The window of opportunity for a championship will not last forever.

1. Fin did have to develop the habit of settling for jumpers because for several years he was it for the Mavs. And the lanes were clogged. It is hard to break well established habits. Still I've see Fin being more agressive in a higher percentage of his scoring oppotunities. Would I like to see him more aggressive? Yes, but he is making the effort. And slowly but surely he's beigining to get that jumper back. Fin's role though isn't to take it to the basket every 3rd or 4th possession. If he did that, then he'd be failing at his job. Still there is room to improve within his role.

2. Players tend to slow down as they get older. A very unfortunate fact of life. Fin is still quick for the NBA, just not as quick as he was. He can still explode, just does it less. Again that's age. Even happened to MJ, and I'm talking about while the Bulls had the run of the NBA.

3. I strongly disagree with you here. I actually think that Mike has gotten better this year in that aspect. He's doing more than in years past. Still it's frustrating at times wishing that his handles were up to speed with most of the rest of his game. But I do think he's gotten better not worse.

4. I wouldn't say that he fears contact. He just knows that he's human and can be injured. It's more wisdom than fear. Players in their youth tend to attack the basket with reckless abandon believing they are immortal and can't be hurt. As they age, they learn that they can. Fin still will seek out contact, just not like in his youthful days.

5. Players lose stamina as they age. This isn't all bad. We have some excellent rookies waiting in the wings desperate for minutes. Having Fin take a few more breathers doesn't really hurt us like in years past and will help us in years to come. Of course Fin is playing more and better D. That's much more tiring than just playing O primarily.

As for Fin turning it around, he's still one of the better shooting guards in the league. We don't need him to be Kobe or TMac, just very good will do especially if he plays D. And if we lose Fin, then who do we get to replace him? If he's no good to us, then who would want him? Remember that the Mavs care less about exorbitant salaries than probably any other team in the league. Pluse how do we replace Fin's leadership in helping this unprecedented collection of stars to swallow their collective egos and jell as a team?

Long and short is that Fin is far more valuable to the Mavs than to any other team. So logic dicates that we'd get less than his present value by trading him. So why do it? Not for the money. We'd have to take equal money back in trade. While we might get a shorter contract in therory, why would any other team which admitedly cares more about the cap and money do this? IMO they won't. So we gain a good deal keeping Fin, and stand to lose if we trade him.

Do we cut off our nose to spite our face?