7'5" 300 pound center possibly going to the Mavericks?? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkenstien · 11-22-2003, 02:35 PM

What do you feel the possibilities are of Nellie riding this season out with the players we have to get a thorough understanding of just how this team will play when jelled and if unsatisfied after the post season, making a trade in the offseason to the team with the number one pick or atleast a high pick in order to acquire Pavel Podkolzine, the 7'5" 300 pound center coming out of Russia? Also, what do you think would be the benefits and/or faults of this maneuver

Jamisonite · 11-22-2003, 03:19 PM

i dont like drafting foriengers(spelling) that high. They are playing agaisnt less quality of players. I think its amazing how gms marvel over a guy from europe hitting a 3 with no one on him. hell i can do that. why dont they draft me number 1. im a firm believer in waiting until after the 10th pick to draft europeans. how many highly drafted europeans have actually worked? Yao has been ok and Dirk. that it. i dont believe Peja was drafted that high

Dirkenstien · 11-22-2003, 03:39 PM

Pavel wouldnt be the type of player to jack up threes. His height and weight could give him a clear advantage in this league down low by weighing as much as Shaq and being as tall as Yao Ming. Which brings me to the point of Yao Ming being a number one pick...do you feel his game could not help the mavericks? Also, Sabonis was a foreigner ...his game could have helped the mavs in his younger days and im sure if he came back right now his game could help us out.

Last offseason before the draft this guy was said to have good mechanics, great quickness for his size, and an athletic build. I dont see the logic in purposely waiting until after the 10th pick in the draft and possibly passing up a potential all-star, simply on the basis of him being a foreigner

Jamisonite · 11-22-2003, 03:42 PM

I just dont like us giving up a key piece of our puzzle for an unknown...thats why we drafted howard cuz he could produce now.

Dirkenstien · 11-22-2003, 04:08 PM

7'5" and 300 pounds pushing around in the paint is a piece of the puzzle that not many teams have, and with Shaq leaving the league soon this guy could be "the" dominating force of the league.

Simon2 · 11-23-2003, 09:14 AM

Don't know anything about this guy. Can someone provide a report? The Mavs will have a hard time getting him since they'll win it all this year.

mavsman · 11-23-2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
i dont like drafting foriengers(spelling) that high. They are playing agaisnt less quality of players.

If you are going to draft players according to the quality of opponents they had to face, you've had to pass on LeBron too. Or do you seriously think that the level of high-school-ball is superior to the top European leagues?

Right now Podkolzine is riding the pine (getting about 5 min/g) on a mid-level team in Italy's Lega A - one of the better European leagues. He is awfully clumsy and jumps not high enough to put a newspaper under his shoes. He's nowhere near a Sabonis at his age. He wouldn't help at all at this point. My guess is, that he needs at least 3 more years to develop and when he's somewhere near ready, his built will take its toll and his knees will start to act up.

MavsFanatik33 · 11-23-2003, 02:17 PM

I've been saying that for years, send Donn Nelson around the world for a quest of a huge overseas guy that can cover Shaq and lay the ball up.

Walkerforthree · 11-23-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
i dont like drafting foriengers(spelling) that high. They are playing agaisnt less quality of players. I think its amazing how gms marvel over a guy from europe hitting a 3 with no one on him. hell i can do that. why dont they draft me number 1. im a firm believer in waiting until after the 10th pick to draft europeans. how many highly drafted europeans have actually worked? Yao has been ok and Dirk. that it. i dont believe Peja was drafted that high

Ever heard of Gasol? He was drafted top 10 and has "worked".

Simon2 · 11-23-2003, 04:30 PM

Did this guy try out for the Denver team and he got cut? That says a lot.

Max Power · 11-23-2003, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Simon2
Did this guy try out for the Denver team and he got cut? That says a lot.

Maybe you are thinking of Chris Marcus ?

Jamisonite · 11-23-2003, 05:28 PM

thats my point. These 18 year old europeans dont even play. Milicic only played like 10 minutes a game. You dont draft a high school kid that plays 10 mins a game do u

Walkerforthree · 11-23-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
thats my point. These 18 year old europeans dont even play. Milicic only played like 10 minutes a game. You dont draft a high school kid that plays 10 mins a game do u

Difference is this. If you play only 10 mpg in Europe its because the system is based on senority, if you play 10 mpg in HS its because you suck.

dirno2000 · 11-23-2003, 05:46 PM

The only player on our team who would bring us the #1 pick is Dirk.

seelenjaeger · 11-23-2003, 06:28 PM

Let´s see ... (guess the player)

- In his rookie season he played 15.5 mpg, getting 6 starts in 71 games.
- In his rookie season he played 10.2 mpg, getting 0 starts in 45 games.
- In his rookie season he played 19.6 mpg, getting 31 starts in 71 games.

Just three examples what All Stars and Future All Stars getting drafted out of HS usually do when playing in the NBA. But yeah, I guess drafting Europeans that high is a bigger gamble than taking those HS kids.

If you draft a guy aged 18 you get a guy aged 18. It doesnt matter if he´s European or US - he´s raw. And you draft this guy on your evaluation of talent. NOT on his supreme competition.

mavsman · 11-23-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Jamisonite
thats my point. These 18 year old europeans dont even play. Milicic only played like 10 minutes a game. You dont draft a high school kid that plays 10 mins a game do u

You are generalising. There are a lot of talented 18 year olds in the European Leagues, Darko included (he played a little over 20 min/g, not 10), that are starters in their teams and play heavy minutes. Still can't see why you'd prefer drafting a high-school-kid over such a player. The only reason might be that you are exposed to the top high-school-players on a weekly basis, if the are hyped as much as LeBron was and you don't know anything about international basketball, because you have no chance to see it. That's why teams have scouts.

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2003, 02:10 AM

Here are a couple links on the guy you can check out:

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/pavelpodkolzine.asp

http://www.hoopshype.com/draft/pavel_podkolzin.htm

kingrex · 11-24-2003, 10:52 AM

If this guy goes top ten, then it would have been a pretty weak draft. As per the write up on him on the URL's provided by Dirkenstein, he's got "project player" written all-over him. He will be a hit or miss guy (sort of like Murasan). Not worth giving up any of the Big 5.

Dirkenstien · 11-24-2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex
If this guy goes top ten, then it would have been a pretty weak draft. As per the write up on him on the URL's provided by Dirkenstein, he's got "project player" written all-over him. He will be a hit or miss guy (sort of like Murasan). Not worth giving up any of the Big 5.

I agree he most likely wouldnt be able to make a huge impact with the team his first year in the league but could you really pass up on a 7'5" 303 pound monster and still sleep at night? I'm not sure I agree with your statement of him going in the top ten only if its a weak draft. Last years draft was incredibly deep and this guy still had buzz about him possibly getting picked up with the 5th or 6th.

mavsman · 11-24-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
I agree he most likely wouldnt be able to make a huge impact with the team his first year in the league but could you really pass up on a 7'5" 303 pound monster and still sleep at night?

You could, once you saw him play. See above. He needs at least 2 or three more years and he's heavier than Shawn or Smits, so you draft a clumsy project with a knee-injury waiting to happen.

Dirkenstien · 11-25-2003, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsman

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
I agree he most likely wouldnt be able to make a huge impact with the team his first year in the league but could you really pass up on a 7'5" 303 pound monster and still sleep at night?

You could, once you saw him play. See above. He needs at least 2 or three more years and he's heavier than Shawn or Smits, so you draft a clumsy project with a knee-injury waiting to happen.

I havent read anything on Pavel being a clumsy player, infact throughout most of what I have read on him the majority of the praise he receives is for the mobility and coordination he displays. Also, at being 18 years of age i doubt knee problems will arise in the near future..perhaps in the latter years of his career this may become more of a concern. Another thing, if you can show me some information to back up your opinion on the guy's vertical leap then I may be persuaded but until then I have a hard time believing it can be as bad as you claim it to be

Here are some stats on Pavel last season with his team in Italy. I know its a european league but the stats speak volumes in the potential of this kid. Remember he's only 18

2002-03): Playing for Varese in Italy’s top league, he played 62 minutes over 10 games. He compiled 24 points, 20 rebounds and 10 steals in the 62 minutes.

I converted these numbers to a 48 minute time spand and the results were this:
boards per 48 minutes: 15
Points per 48 minutes: 18
Steals per 48 minutes: 7

these stats however are not a very clear indication on just what he'd be able to accomplish his first couple of years so to address fairness issues you can take these numbers and devide the stats and minutes he racked up by the number of games he played which was 10 and you get :
for approximately every 6 minutes played:
1.5 rebounds
2 points
and .7 steals

by possesing these numbers you can now multiply 6 times 8 to get the number of minutes in a game and you have a more realistic view of what he may be able to accomplish in his first couple years as he's learning and developing:
9 rebounds a game
12 points a game
4.2 steals a game

Those arent bad stats for a rookie, ofcourse these stats cant necessarily be considered entirely accurate to what he'd be able to accomplish in the NBA due to him earning these in a euro leauge but I thought this may allow readers to consider how he stacks up statistically at the young age of 18.

Granted many factors go into these stats as more games and more minutes are played but this offers atleast an idea on what he may be capable of.

Dirkenstien · 11-25-2003, 04:22 AM

heres another link on Pavel

http://collegebasketballnews.theinsi.../2/117058.html

mavsman · 11-25-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
I havent read anything on Pavel being a clumsy player, infact throughout most of what I have read on him the majority of the praise he receives is for the mobility and coordination he displays. Also, at being 18 years of age i doubt knee problems will arise in the near future..perhaps in the latter years of his career this may become more of a concern. Another thing, if you can show me some information to back up your opinion on the guy's vertical leap then I may be persuaded but until then I have a hard time believing it can be as bad as you claim it to be.

We just have to agree to disagree. You think he's great, because you read a lot about him and formed a second-hand opinion. I actually saw him play three times live over the last two years and a couple more times on TV and saw that he drops the ball a lot and can't jump. I'm sure he'll be able to get better in these areas, but his coach actually plays him less this season than the season before, so it might even take longer than expected.
So to answer the question in your initial posting: The fault of this maneuver would be that we traded away somebody who could help for sombody who needs help.

Dirkenstien · 11-25-2003, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: mavsman

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dirkenstien
I havent read anything on Pavel being a clumsy player, infact throughout most of what I have read on him the majority of the praise he receives is for the mobility and coordination he displays. Also, at being 18 years of age i doubt knee problems will arise in the near future..perhaps in the latter years of his career this may become more of a concern. Another thing, if you can show me some information to back up your opinion on the guy's vertical leap then I may be persuaded but until then I have a hard time believing it can be as bad as you claim it to be.

We just have to agree to disagree. You think he's great, because you read a lot about him and formed a second-hand opinion..

Fair enough, although dont get me wrong I never said he was great but his potential and upside are quite intriguing. It's a shame he's wasting time in Europe on the bench when he could be here training and becoming better. Nonetheless, I doubt we would take such a risk but it'll be interesting to see where this guy lands and what he becomes.

Chiwas · 11-25-2003, 11:38 AM

If he can block and rebound well, without getting on foul trouble, is perfect for Dallas. Doesn't need to do more.

mavsman · 11-25-2003, 02:51 PM

Yes, it'll be interesting to see how he develops. I don't know why his coach hasn't increased his playing time from last to this season. Maybe he wants to protect him, maybe he isn't convinced of the progress he sees. I mean, Lega A is not really strong when it comes to centers. Anyone we could need should at least be able to rip through players like Muursepp, Cal Bowdler and Brooks Sales.
I'll be monitoring this site and as soon as they announce the next televised game, I'll be sitting at my favourite Trattoria, where the satellite-dish is even bigger than the plates and where it's Italian sports only.
Can you in return keep me updated about him?