Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea. Whoops... a nothing burger.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/03/15...ennis-lindsey/

The problem with them hiring Lindsey as a consultant has nothing to do with false accusations and everything to do with a seeming lack of total confidence in Nico doing his job.

Well for one its not a false accusation, just cause the nba said they couldnt determine the allegations. He said he said it, lindsey said he didnt. Regardless, its just more of an indictment of Cuban imo

[sig]

Well they need a replacement for Hulabaloo Bob.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Well for one its not a false accusation, just cause the nba said they couldnt determine the allegations. He said he said it, lindsey said he didnt. Regardless, its just more of an indictment of Cuban imo

Just because someone accuses you, doesn't make it real. There's no proof and it was unsubstantiated. Are you saying that Cuban is wrong for hiring a guy in general as a consultant, or wrong for hiring someone that a salty player tried to play race card to ruin his career?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Why?

Most front offices are 5-8 people. Why does hiring Nico help mean that Cuban isn't confident in him.

Because why now instead of bolstering the FO right off the bat back when we had publishers clearinghouse? He rush hired Kidd and Nico. This thing slid off the rails and after a year long fall from grace he is adding a consultant. Maybe he didn't want a Harolabob episode and a power struggle since Nico is green in a high profile job. I'm good with whatever gets results ultimately. Just my first impression of it.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Problem is they did this with Donnie when they hired Gerson Rosas who lasted like a month because he thought he was eventually going to be GM.

[tap2390]

Nico, by virtue of his pedigree and background, is 100% deserving of a GM role. I don?t think any of us can really fault his first three moves which were all ?buy-low? ? Wood, Hardy, and Kyrie. In fact, I would argue that for a long time we undervalued the asset management that he?s demonstrated.

That being said, he?s still green and could definitely benefit from someone like Lindsey.

Lindsey joined the Rockets right after they won B2B championships. Then joined the Spurs in the middle of their dynasty. Then he oversaw the transition of the Jazz to a winning franchise during which he hired Quin Snyder, and drafted Mitchell and Gobert.

Basically, his voice as an experienced exec with elite orgs is welcome, and we should praise the team when they make good decisions. I also feel very good about whatever Nico and Dennis decide to do with our pick should we retain it.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Problem is they did this with Donnie when they hired Gerson Rosas who lasted like a month because he thought he was eventually going to be GM.

I see the bigger problem as Cuban.

You can hire 30-35 of the best minds in all of professional sports.

None of that matters if Cuban comes in and undermines their decisions and plays lead GM.

We make shitty decisions. The managers wonder why they are even there. The team suffers.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I see the bigger problem as Cuban.

You can hire 30-35 of the best minds in all of professional sports.

None of that matters if Cuban comes in and undermines their decisions and plays lead GM.

We make shitty decisions. The managers wonder why they are even there. The team suffers.

...And the fans still buy tickets. :/

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

They showed Kings build over last 4 years, and while they have sucked, they are now poised to be good for a bit, with cap space. Such a fun team to watch too.

Yep it's amazing that the mavs since 2011 title team with Tyson hasn't been able to find a competent starting center since then

The one constant decision makers left on this franchise is Cuban

So he has to take a great deal of the blame for poor roster building

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yep it's amazing that the mavs since 2011 title team with Tyson hasn't been able to find a competent starting center since then

The one constant decision makers left on this franchise is Cuban

So he has to take a great deal of the blame for poor roster building

Well the one positive is we won it all when we replaced Damp with Tyson...even though people defended Damp til the end.

So maybe there is hope that a Tyson-like center would change it all.

Good luck finding one though.

And that means no Dwight Powell on the team. Period.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yep it's amazing that the mavs since 2011 title team with Tyson hasn't been able to find a competent starting center since then

The one constant decision makers left on this franchise is Cuban

So he has to take a great deal of the blame for poor roster building

This is categorized as "facts".

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well the one positive is we won it all when we replaced Damp with Tyson...even though people defended Damp til the end.

So maybe there is hope that a Tyson-like center would change it all.

Good luck finding one though.

And that means no Dwight Powell on the team. Period.

Not wanting Powell back on a minimum or much cheaper deal is...bad roster building aka what we have been complaining about.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Just because someone accuses you, doesn't make it real. There's no proof and it was unsubstantiated. Are you saying that Cuban is wrong for hiring a guy in general as a consultant, or wrong for hiring someone that a salty player tried to play race card to ruin his career?

lol at ruin his career cause he's playing a race card; yeah im sure the rich white guy is ruined. Comparatively, what was said wasnt even that bad.

Im saying its best optics wise to go a different direction. Mavs are viewed as a sexist organization. No need to add to it.

[tap2390]

Man I wish we had multiple picks. Lots of guys in the teens/ 20s that will contribute from this class:

High Upside, Raw Guys -- Rayan Rupert; Dereck Lively; James Nnaji; Adem Bona; Sidy Cissoko

Ready to Contribute Guys -- Kris Murray; Trayce Jackson-Davis;



I wouldn't be opposed to trading down. Maybe for 16 + 28 from Utah? Anyways, don't be surprised if we take TJD at 10.

[sig]

I thought maybe the 3 Pacers picks between 25 and 35 for 10. Could be some poiished players there. I like TJD and Javier Jaquez Jr. then choose from one of the young frontcourt players like Clowney, Nnaji, Gregory Jackson, Dillon Mitchell, Bona. Utah trade for 16 and 28 sounds good too.

I think TJD is going to have to show some perimeter shot in the combine to move up from late 1st / early 2nd range. He literally did nothing scoring more than 5-10 feet from the basket unless it was from FT line. Man, what he is good at is pretty elite. He must have Kawhi like hands. He throws passes like the basketball is a baseball. His footwork is amazing and quick. Lot of similarities in style to Draymond in ball handling and passing.

[R28J]

Originally Posted by sig

I thought maybe the 3 Pacers picks between 25 and 35 for 10. Could be some poiished players there. I like TJD and Javier Jaquez Jr. then choose from one of the young frontcourt players like Clowney, Nnaji, Gregory Jackson, Dillon Mitchell, Bona. Utah trade for 16 and 28 sounds good too.

I think TJD is going to have to show some perimeter shot in the combine to move up from late 1st / early 2nd range. He literally did nothing scoring more than 5-10 feet from the basket unless it was from FT line. Man, what he is good at is pretty elite. He must have Kawhi like hands. He throws passes like the basketball is a baseball. His footwork is amazing and quick. Lot of similarities in style to Draymond in ball handling and passing.

Would trading down to get 2 rookies signal that the Mavs are not planning on keeping Kyrie?

[saclare]

Originally Posted by R28J

Would trading down to get 2 rookies signal that the Mavs are not planning on keeping Kyrie?

I think it's a hedge in that scenario, where the Mavs would have the ability to trade one or all picks acquired or add a young piece and trade the other pick. I wouldn't see them drafting more than one young player unless they somehow acquired a 2nd round pick because you have to add win-now talent around even just Luka next year. That becomes less and less of a chance the further away from pick #10.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

lol at ruin his career cause he's playing a race card; yeah im sure the rich white guy is ruined. Comparatively, what was said wasnt even that bad.

Im saying its best optics wise to go a different direction. Mavs are viewed as a sexist organization. No need to add to it.

Ahh let's just be OK with false accusations because 'rich white guy'. He doesn't need the money he has earned or the career he has paved for himself.

What was said doesn't even exist. But what was accused of being said is fairly bad, given that he has a management role and it was peak times to cancel someone's entire life for stuff like that.

The Mavs arent widely viewed as a sexist org. Opportunists see the Mavs as a sexist org when it's convenient. We were definitely managed and neglected by Mark. He killed 2 birds with one stone in a correction with the replacement hired. Each case should be viewed individually and thoroughly enough to be able to confidently justify any hiring. This dude doesnt appear at all to have a history of that type of behavior, in fact the opposite. We can't afford to be fretting over some unproven accusations from 8 years ago. By all means do the due diligence on him but the investigation was reportedly done by 3 different groups.

[SMC0007]

I'm having a hard time seeing the Mavs keeping the pick and not packaging trading for a proven big or a 2 way wing. The way the season ended, and saying "we have to prove to Luka we want him here for his career" and Keeping Kyrie doesn't jive with the first step being drafting a rookie. Idk, I'm definitely interested in the direction they decide.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

We need to get Oscar Tshiebwe in the second round. The guy would literally fix our rebounding by himself. Don't really care much about the rest of his flaws when it's gonna be a mid to late second. When you're elite at something, you draft that. And that guy is one of the best rebounders ever to hold a basketball.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We need to get Oscar Tshiebwe in the second round. The guy would literally fix our rebounding by himself. Don't really care much about the rest of his flaws when it's gonna be a mid to late second. When you're elite at something, you draft that. And that guy is one of the best rebounders ever to hold a basketball.

I love him and I think he beats the hell out of spending Hardy/Josh and picks to get Bam.

He could go anywhere from 15-45 from what I have seen.

It's hard to say how we'd get him, but at 15, we'd probably want to trade down. At 45, there's a chance to buy a SRP like we did with Hardy.

[tap2390]

I have to remind myself to hedge all these discussions with "if we keep the pick."

I'm ready to be hurt.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I love him and I think he beats the hell out of spending Hardy/Josh and picks to get Bam.

He could go anywhere from 15-45 from what I have seen.

It's hard to say how we'd get him, but at 15, we'd probably want to trade down. At 45, there's a chance to buy a SRP like we did with Hardy.

On Oscar, I was quite perplexed he did not enter the draft last year. There are some decisions that can be just plain dumb and that is one of them. Now he regressed, albeit slightly, but he should not get 1st round consideration IMO. That's where the opportunity comes into play for the Mavs to acquire a second rounder and grab him. If not him, some other prospect will do. Just add talent.

That being said, not so sure Oscar will be leaving. I think they're all at a stalemate, with Kentucky maybe wanting him to leave so they can nab Hunter Dickinson as a transfer from Michigan.

As an Arkansas fan, I'd love for Dickinson to get tired of waiting and head to Kansas or somewhere else and then have that followed up with Oscar announcing plans for the draft.

[sig]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I have to remind myself to hedge all these discussions with "if we keep the pick."

I'm ready to be hurt.

Why does the NBA wait until May to do the the lottery? They did the tiebreakers so get on with it, IMO. They could probably use a ratings boost for the Celts/Hawks series or the Philly/BKN series which are destined to be blowouts.

[tap2390]

I?m a huge fan of OT?s rebounding and energy, but he is unplayable in the NBA until he learns how to defend ball screens.

Personally think TJD translates a lot better to the NBA.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We need to get Oscar Tshiebwe in the second round. The guy would literally fix our rebounding by himself. Don't really care much about the rest of his flaws when it's gonna be a mid to late second. When you're elite at something, you draft that. And that guy is one of the best rebounders ever to hold a basketball.

I?d love to find a way to draft him. I full expect our pick this year to be traded for some oft injured veteran player.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I'm having a hard time seeing the Mavs keeping the pick and not packaging trading for a proven big or a 2 way wing. The way the season ended, and saying "we have to prove to Luka we want him here for his career" and Keeping Kyrie doesn't jive with the first step being drafting a rookie. Idk, I'm definitely interested in the direction they decide.

I'm with you

Fuck that Pick they don't have time to Waite on a project player with Luka and kyrie in win now mode

I'd go hard after Siakam, Turner or OJ Anouby if it requires trading that pick to land any of them

All those guys fit the win now mode

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

I'm with you

Fuck that Pick they don't have time to Waite on a project player with Luka and kyrie in win now mode

I'd go hard after Siakam, Turner or OJ Anouby if it requires trading that pick to land any of them

All those guys fit the win now mode

We typically agree on players that would fit or who we prefer. But I think we all know AD to Dallas is incoming. Lol

[Dallas41]

Watching Denver tonight makes me hate the way kidd uses Luka and kyrie

Luka needs to be utilized more like jokic. These two dudes have very similar skillets offensively. Put Luka's ass in the post more and let him facilitate that way just like jokic.

Use kyrie like Murray as the primary ball handler but with the ability to play off ball when Luka has it in the post or mid post areas.

Can't understand why they are so hell bent on playing 5 out totally ignoring Luka's ability to dominate inside by taking advantage of his size and shooting touch around the basket

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Watching Denver tonight makes me hate the way kidd uses Luka and kyrie

Luka needs to be utilized more like jokic. These two dudes have very similar skillets offensively. Put Luka's ass in the post more and let him facilitate that way just like jokic.

Use kyrie like Murray as the primary ball handler but with the ability to play off ball when Luka has it in the post or mid post areas.

Can't understand why they are so hell bent on playing 5 out totally ignoring Luka's ability to dominate inside by taking advantage of his size and shooting touch around the basket

Even more depressing was watching Memphis without Ja, without Brandon Clarke, without Steven Adams, have a 3rd string center Xavier Tillman break out for 22/13 against AD.

This org has no ability to build talent or depth.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Watching Denver tonight makes me hate the way kidd uses Luka and kyrie

Luka needs to be utilized more like jokic. These two dudes have very similar skillets offensively. Put Luka's ass in the post more and let him facilitate that way just like jokic.

Use kyrie like Murray as the primary ball handler but with the ability to play off ball when Luka has it in the post or mid post areas.

Can't understand why they are so hell bent on playing 5 out totally ignoring Luka's ability to dominate inside by taking advantage of his size and shooting touch around the basket

Huh, must spread rep...

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Even more depressing was watching Memphis without Ja, without Brandon Clarke, without Steven Adams, have a 3rd string center Xavier Tillman break out for 22/13 against AD.

This org has no ability to build talent or depth.

I actually found myself questioning if the Grizz were better without Ja...

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Even more depressing was watching Memphis without Ja, without Brandon Clarke, without Steven Adams, have a 3rd string center Xavier Tillman break out for 22/13 against AD.

This org has no ability to build talent or depth.

Which is why you can't just piss the 10th pick away. People want to trade like 2 players and the pick for a better player, but then that kills your depth.

Our problem isn't that we just need a defensive center or a defensive wing. Our problem is the talent outside of Luka/Kyrie is putrid. Too many teams have quality top to bottom.

So that means bye bye Powell, Kleber, and Bullock.

Our third best player (Wood) is going to walk in FA. It's just insane to think about how terrible our FO is at talent management.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Which is why you can't just piss the 10th pick away. People want to trade like 2 players and the pick for a better player, but then that kills your depth.

Our problem isn't that we just need a defensive center or a defensive wing. Our problem is the talent outside of Luka/Kyrie is putrid. Too many teams have quality top to bottom.

So that means bye bye Powell, Kleber, and Bullock.

Our third best player (Wood) is going to walk in FA. It's just insane to think about how terrible our FO is at talent management.

Well there's a big difference in trading the pick and pissing it away. No one has interest in just getting rid of it. It has to be a good move and we HAVE to add sure fire talent around Luka, whatever that looks like. It doesn't look like risking a rookie is the way, given our circumstance. I'm not against drafting at 10, I just find that route cloudy.

If depth is a major concern to start the season, then people might want to start accepting the idea of SnT Kyrie for a few quality pieces.

If only Kidd didn't start the season off slamming his dick in the door. We could have been giving Hardy big minutes and exploring Wood and McGee lineups etc. We would know a lot more about the reliability of our current depth.

[tap2390]

I don't why, but if we keep our pick, I have a gut feeling Cason Wallace is the guy. He'd also provide some Kyrie leaving insurance.

[Zeus]

Haralabob Vulgaris was on Bill Simmons pod last night and about the 1 hour 55 minute mark the talk for about 10 minutes on the Mavs. Haralabob and Simmons both talked about all the moves the Mavs could have made at the trade deadline that would have been more complimentary to Luka and better team building rather than what they both perceived was an ALL or Nothing panic move by the Mavs org in going all in for Kyrie who will either walk or become a basket case within 12 months.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Haralabob Vulgaris was on Bill Simmons pod last night and about the 1 hour 55 minute mark the talk for about 10 minutes on the Mavs. Haralabob and Simmons both talked about all the moves the Mavs could have made at the trade deadline that would have been more complimentary to Luka and better team building rather than what they both perceived was an ALL or Nothing panic move by the Mavs org in going all in for Kyrie who will either walk or become a basket case within 12 months.

So basically the obvious guys who we all wanted that could have helped us. Yet our FO is good with DP leading our big man rotation.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Haralabob Vulgaris was on Bill Simmons pod last night and about the 1 hour 55 minute mark the talk for about 10 minutes on the Mavs. Haralabob and Simmons both talked about all the moves the Mavs could have made at the trade deadline that would have been more complimentary to Luka and better team building rather than what they both perceived was an ALL or Nothing panic move by the Mavs org in going all in for Kyrie who will either walk or become a basket case within 12 months.

It absolutely was a panic move, but it wasn't necessarily the wrong one depending on if they can actually get talent on this team.

Certainly don't miss Dinwiddie or DFS, so it's not like we gave up a lot.

I still do that trade 10 times out of 10.

[tap2390]

I?m fine with the trade. Alternative was a Lakers-style move for D?Angelo/ Vanderbilt and they?re struggling with AD and Bron despite being hand fed by the refs.

[SMC0007]

Nick Nurse is now available. However, Cuban is a jackass and we will continue with Kidd.