Harry Potter Discussion Thread

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So, you sign up for a copy, so you're guaranteed one? Then you just have to stand in line to wait to purchase it?

Thats right.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Thats right.

Hmm. I feel like Mary, I'm leary of the dorkiness levels.

Plus, I've seen the videos of people driving by and yelling the big twists.

Decisions, decisions......

[jthig32]

If you haven't read HBP, don't watch this.

That's what I was referring to. The ending is priceless.

[Big Boy Laroux]

yeah, i saw that a long time ago... so book 6 is spoiled for me... but i don't mind.

i'd order it and stay at home. no spoilers!

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

yeah, i saw that a long time ago... so book 6 is spoiled for me... but i don't mind.

i'd order it and stay at home. no spoilers!

Man, the biggest twist of the whole series so far is spoiled for you. That sucks.

[Big Boy Laroux]

yeah, but oh well... it's my fault for waiting so long to read it. And i don't know that many details.

it's like people spoiling the sixth sense. with something that popular, it's gonna be spoiled the longer you wait.

when i first saw that clip, i thought it was kinda funny. now i just think that guy's a dick.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

yeah, but oh well... it's my fault for waiting so long to read it. And i don't know that many details.

it's like people spoiling the sixth sense. with something that popular, it's gonna be spoiled the longer you wait.

when i first saw that clip, i thought it was kinda funny. now i just think that guy's a dick.

Yeah, I guess it's pretty hard to go that long without hearing it.

I had Fight Club spoiled for me. Wanted to kill the dude.

[nikeball]

yaaaaaaaya yay;layj;alkjyl;kaj yayayayayay

[Windmill360]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, I guess it's pretty hard to go that long without hearing it.

I had Fight Club spoiled for me. Wanted to kill the dude.

*SPOILER*****





Professor Snape, in the Herbolotry room, with the broomstick.

[Windmill360]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you haven't read HBP, don't watch this.

That's what I was referring to. The ending is priceless.

hahaha Dallas, Texas....... *irony*

[Flacolaco]

I find it highly unikely that anyone will read the book and spoil it for anyone on the very first night within minutes of midnight. Youd have to be uber-malicious to go out of your way to do that.

like I said. iPod. headphones. Im golden.

I want the damned thing the earliest possible second I can get my hands on it.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I find it highly unikely that anyone will read the book and spoil it for anyone on the very first night within minutes of midnight. Youd have to be uber-malicious to go out of your way to do that.

like I said. iPod. headphones. Im golden.

I want the damned thing the earliest possible second I can get my hands on it.

not only that, you have to read damn fast to be able to tell people the ending....

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

If you haven't read HBP, don't watch this.

That's what I was referring to. The ending is priceless.

thats just a shitty thing to do. i can see how someone would laugh but it would be like coming out of the big blockbuster movie of the year shouting the ending except worse.

[mary]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

not only that, you have to read damn fast to be able to tell people the ending....

Or you could just read the ending.

(As an impatient child, this is a tactic I employed often)

[mcsluggo]

You know, I've read all the Harry Potter books, and they are good. ESPECIALLY when you consider that they are written so that a 13 year old will understand and love 'em.

But jeez, they are not THAT good. They are page turners, cotton candy reading. Perfect for having on a vacation with your in-laws. But c'mon now. The adulation they get from adults just perplexes me. The books are clever in their setting, and interesting in their general plots, and well written in most of the small details, but they are pretty straight forward and simplistic (BY DESIGN and DEFINITION, since they are aimed at 11 year olds). It gets irritating how over the top weasly and slimey a slytherin is, in ALL aspects of everything. And how black and white, cut and dried all the good versus evil is. Too clean, too easy. I know, I KNOW, she occasionally throws a giant wrench into the clear cut good versus evil thing (snape, Serius, the beauracracy) but it is always such a HUGE overwrought and overannounced drama for EVERY exception, that instead they just become the exceptions that more than prove the too-clear-cut rule.

But like I said, I like the books. I've read 'em all. THey are page turners, and they are GREAT for kids (and great for the fact that they are soo good in spite of the fact that they are AIMED at kids ---- have you ever read MOST of the shlock aimed at kids? ugh!). Just: lets not get out of hand here.

(and its not just that I don't give fantasy a chance, the LOTR trilogy IS great literature)

[mcsluggo]

Now that I've pissed on everyones parade, I gues I better just move along...

[Flacolaco]

sluggo....I respectfully disagree.

Books 1 and 2 i'll give you. Meant for kids.

The rest...I dont know, I just don't see them as ONLY childrens books.

These books are much deeper than they seem when you label them childrens books. People have written other books examining the psychological and social development of children themes, literary and historical contexts. There's politics, European fantasy / story telling tradition. Deep research into witchcraft and wizardry history. Morality themes. Some of the essays I've read on the themes and symbolisms of this series astound me. Every single name has a story, every detail and seemingly random object mentioned has a place in medeival magical tradition or some other ancient discipline.

She's created what's called in the genre "a secondary world." And maybe more impressive than Tolkein (in this one aspect)is that her secondary world co-exists with our own, which is part of what makes it so fun.

(I love Tolkein btw. I just started re-reading the Silmarillion)

But to each their own....

Call me a child. I love 'em.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

But to each their own....

Call me a child. I love 'em.

Yeah, no question, you love what you love, and that is just it.


I just needed to remind everyone that this thread has some parallels in:

"Re: the "peeps" admiration society..."
or
"Re: Why I love Braches Circus Peanuts..."


Its ok to love 'em, just remember what you are doing

[Kirobaito]

I got book six at 12:07 on the night of its release, and was done with it by about 10:00 AM. I'll probably be doing the same thing this time. I managed to avoid the spoiler until reading it myself in the book, so I was rather proud.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Finished "Order of the Phoenix" last night. Great, great read (and as i mentioned before, my first without having seen the movie first).

SPOILERS for anyone who hasn't read it

so dumbledore is a bad-ass, which we knew. and all the chapters are great.

but i couldn't help but feel that the ending was pretty anti-climactic. sirius just... dies. didn't feel much emotion there, but i guess that was the point with dumbledore.

but the most anti-climactic thing was the prophecy. honestly, what did it tell us that we didn't already know? or was that the point? that voldemort wanted it so badly, but it really didn't contain anything that unknown? i just felt slightly let down...


ok, SPOILERS OVER

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Finished "Order of the Phoenix" last night. Great, great read (and as i mentioned before, my first without having seen the movie first).

SPOILERS for anyone who hasn't read it

so dumbledore is a bad-ass, which we knew. and all the chapters are great.

but i couldn't help but feel that the ending was pretty anti-climactic. sirius just... dies. didn't feel much emotion there, but i guess that was the point with dumbledore.

but the most anti-climactic thing was the prophecy. honestly, what did it tell us that we didn't already know? or was that the point? that voldemort wanted it so badly, but it really didn't contain anything that unknown? i just felt slightly let down...


ok, SPOILERS OVER

Well, the reader can see all along that Voldemort and Harry are destined to battle each other, but really there isn't much to suggest that to Harry himself. More than anything it helped explain the causes behind the events surrounding Harry early in life.

But you're right, in the end it turned out to be of very little use to Voldemort, even if he had gotten it.

Glad you enjoyed it. I imagine you'll really enjoy HBP as well.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Thought a little more about this last night. Although the prophecy itself doesn't seem to contain that much info, I guess we learn that the prohecy was the cause of Harry's parents deaths.

We learn that Harry was the one that Voldemort wanted to kill all along, and that his parents' deaths were just a means to an end. As opposed to voldemort killing Harry's parents, then just trying to kill Harry as a side project.

[Nemesis]

Comparing Harry Potter to Tolkien is a travesty of epic proportions (no pun intended) I have read all the books fromn both authors...there is no comparison and rightfully so.. Tolkien's work is based off of a nightmarish hell hole in the trenches of WW I.. Harry Potter is simply a series for children w/ many adult themes. It sells very good to both parties. Tolkien could care less about sales or movies or anyone even liking it. That is what makes is more special. There is no hollywood to try to please. J.K. sold herself out after the 3rd book IMO, by making it more movie friendly.

[Chicken Diavlo]

Every time they've released a new book, I've just strolled into Wal-Mart sometime on the day of and picked up a copy. In and out in 5 minutes. I did it at midnight once even on the release day.

I like the books, but camping out for one is just not worth the trouble in my opinion.

[Big Boy Laroux]

finished HBP last night. and even though i knew the "twist", it was still surprising. great, great read.

[WurzburgBorn]

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





I didn't know there was a Harry Potter thread on the forum!!

Alright, so who thinks Harry is a horcrux?
And can we but vcash on this one, because I'm pretty confident he is.
Big boy, you just read HBP. What's your take?

[Big Boy Laroux]

wurzburg, i saw that mentioned earlier in the thread, i think... i could definitely see it going that way. that would be the one other horcrux that they're not certain on.

[jthig32]

I don't think he's a Horcrux, but certainly it's possible.

And I'm still fairly confident Snape is on the good side. I actually re-read HBP again a few weeks ago, and became more convinced.

I can't wait for July 21st.

[Big Boy Laroux]

yeah, thig, i'd agree with that. he made the unbreakable vow, so he really was forced to kill dumbledore.

So why did snape agree to the unbreakable vow in the first place, when he obviously knew what Draco was supposed to do? maybe it was because being killed was also part of dumbledore's plan. a little bit of obi-wan kenobi action. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

he also could have easily taken out harry in the escape from hogwarts, but he didn't. and he stopped other death-eaters from doing so (albeit by saying Voldemort wanted Harry, but still).

as to harry being a horcrux, it would explain why he is so linked to voldemort, aside from just being marked. he actually has a piece of voldemort's soul within him. if that happens, i wouldn't be surprised. and that would lead to both harry and voldemort needing to be destroyed.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

yeah, thig, i'd agree with that. he made the unbreakable vow, so he really was forced to kill dumbledore.

So why did snape agree to the unbreakable vow in the first place, when he obviously knew what Draco was supposed to do? maybe it was because being killed was also part of dumbledore's plan. a little bit of obi-wan kenobi action. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

I think he was under strict orders to do everything in his powers to keep appearing as a Death Eater, no matter the cost.

The part of the book I'd forgotten about until this last reading, that really convined me, was the part where Hagrid tells Harry about hearing Snape and Dumbledore arguing. Dumbledore told him that he agreed to the plan, and he must follow through with it. I think they knew at that time what would possibly happen.

as to harry being a horcrux, it would explain why he is so linked to voldemort, aside from just being marked. he actually has a piece of voldemort's soul within him. if that happens, i wouldn't be surprised. and that would lead to both harry and voldemort needing to be destroyed.

The only thing about Harry being a Horcrux is, I'm not sure a wizard could have a piece of Voldemort in him without ever being interested in some of the dark things Voldemort was interested in. I also would think he'd be a bit better at Occlumency. Maybe that's nit picking.

Or maybe I'm just in denial because I don't want to see Harry die. He's had a rough life, he deserves to kick it on the beach with Ginny after Voldemort is gone.

[WurzburgBorn]

The only thing about Harry being a Horcrux is, I'm not sure a wizard could have a piece of Voldemort in him without ever being interested in some of the dark things Voldemort was interested in.

This transitions nicely into what I think is somne of the strongest eveidence for Harry being a horcrux:
In Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore tells Harry that the reason Voldy can't possess him is because of his ability to love. Dumbledore then tells Harry that this proves he is still a man.
Huh? Of course he's still a man! Why wouldn't he still be a man? Just because his life has been difficult? Or maybe because Dumbledore knows Harry has been carrying around a piece of Voldy's soul in his head for 15 years, and that's why it's surprising Harry is still a man. This take, of course, depends on the idea that Dumbledore knows Harry is a horcrux and only brings up Nagini as a possibility to give Harry the info that a horcrux can be a living thing. He did not think Harry was ready to learn the truth yet.

Or maybe I'm just in denial because I don't want to see Harry die.

He may not have to. Wormtail's been hanging around Voldy for a long time, owes Harry a life debt from the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, and may know something about how to break a horcrux cuse without destroying the "container."

[jthig32]

That's interesting.

Here's something I never understood about that theory, though:

Why would Voldemort turn Harry into a Horcrux, and then try to kill him? He wouldn't. So was the Horcrux created accidentally? According to Slughorn in HBP, the Horcrux is created by doing complex magic, not by accident.

So then, did Voldemort not actually try to kill Harry? What actually happened to him, then?

Everything we've been told suggest that Voldemort tried to kill Harry. I dont't understand why he'd turn him into a Horcrux, and then try to kill him, unless the thought is that he'd have been dead, and buried, but his body still contain it?

[WurzburgBorn]

Here are my thoughts on how it happened, though the theory is not original:
Voldemort went to Godrick's Hollow with the intention of turning an object into a horcrux. Either he had the object with him, or he expected to find an object of Griffindor's at Godrick's Hollow. He had been intending to use Harry's death to create his final horcrux in the object. But when his avada kedavra bounced off Harry, the piece of his soul that was supposed to go into the object somehow went into Harry instead, by mistake. We don't really know how the horcrux spell/curse works, but this is at least conceivable that the horcrux could have been misplaced due to an avada kedavra killing the wrong person. I don't think the Slughorn scene rules out this possibility of Voldemort accidentally making Harry the horcrux.
As for Voldemort's attempts to kill Harry, Voldemort was trying to kill Harry that night at Godrick's Hollow, and tried to kill him several times after that as well. But only until he learned that Harry was a horcrux, which would have been when Voldemort tried to possess him at the Ministry in Order of the Phoenix. Note that after that, Voldemort shifts gears and goes after Dumbledore instead, as well as apparently instructs his death-eaters not to touch Harry.

EDIT: I guess I should cite to Mugglenet.com's book "What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7," since some I gathered some of this from that book. Ha. Who's the biggest Harry Potter nerd now?

[jthig32]

I'm not sure I can buy the "accidentally misplaced the horcrux" theory. Seems a bit...convenient.

But the othe factors you mentioned are interesting.

[Big Boy Laroux]

As for Harry not being interested in dark things... The guy's not exactly a choir boy. He gets angry VERY easily, he is also tempted by power (like in HBP, there was no way he was giving up the book after it had done so much for him). He has had the ability to eventually make the right decision, but he takes some mild dark steps along the way.

And of course, the hat wanted to place him in slytherin. Probably because of the piece of voldy within him. I can buy the "Harry is a horcrux" theory.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Just thought of something else. Dumbledore thought another horcrux would be in "something of gryffindor's". Maybe Harry actually IS that "something of gryffindor's". Maybe Harry is a descendent of gryffindor. Setting up the ultimate battle of gryffindor and slytherin.

[WurzburgBorn]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Just thought of something else. Dumbledore thought another horcrux would be in "something of gryffindor's". Maybe Harry actually IS that "something of gryffindor's". Maybe Harry is a descendent of gryffindor. Setting up the ultimate battle of gryffindor and slytherin.

Definite Possibility.
An additional thought: Perhaps Harry need not be directly descended from Griffindor to be the heir of Griffindor. Voldemort, the heir of Slytherin, was directly descended from Slytherin, but then, bloodlines and purity of blood are of great importance to Slytherin. Bravery is of most importance to Griffindor. Harry may be the heir of Griffindor simply because of his bravery.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Godrick's Hollow is named after Griffindor. There has to be a good reason that we'll find out about in book 7. Either a direct connection between the Potters and Griffindor, or perhaps Godrick was from there and/or a former possession of his was there.

[bobatundi]

So, since I inadvertently started this thread, how about turning the subject a bit:

Other "kids" series that you like/would recommend for fans of Harry Potter. I'll throw out Artemis Fowl for starters--very entertaining, especially the audiobooks narrated by Nathaniel Parker--he's fantastic. Also enjoyed the first of Philip Pullman's Dark Materials books, haven't read the other two yet. My wife has gone nuts for this series called "Warriors," where all the main characters are cats--I haven't read them yet.

[bobatundi]

oh yeah--and please don't bother recommending LOTR or the Chronic (what?) cles of Narnia. I may have been late to the game on Harry Potter, but come on now...

[Five-ofan]

the problem i have with the harry is a hocrux theory is that the actual killing of another person is what splits the soul in order for it to be possible to be made into a hocrux. I know voldy had killed harry's parents BUT he wasnt using them to make a hocrux. He was using harry's. Since he was going to use Harry's death to create the hocrux, how could he create ANY hocrux without the killing that would subsequently split the soul?