Official trade watch 2020-2021 - Page 18 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FreshJive · 02-10-2022, 11:44 PM

Townsend: Nico Harrison says he believes the roster is set. That's a strong indication the Mavericks won't pursue Dragic in the buyout market. Harrison's response was to a question about the buyout market, so there you have it.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2022, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Nico Harrison says he believes the roster is set. That's a strong indication the Mavericks won't pursue Dragic in the buyout market. Harrison's response was to a question about the buyout market, so there you have it.

I was disappointed

But the more I think about it, Dinwiddie is our sixth man ball handler. Other than being another friend to Luka a la Boban, I don’t get the need for Dragic after today.

mac222b · 02-10-2022, 11:49 PM

Our bigs rotation is hella thin. I know we will go small in the playoffs some but worry about wear on Powell and Dodo and Maxi especially. Chriss is good for 10-15. Moses not ready if he ever even will be. Boban is just a change up.

We are lacking a physical “innings eater” like Zubac

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-10-2022, 11:54 PM

Yeah, Dragic makes no sense now. He'll go back to Miami.

Dallas41 · 02-10-2022, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Our bigs rotation is hella thin. I know we will go small in the playoffs some but worry about wear on Powell and Dodo and Maxi especially. Chriss is good for 10-15. Moses not ready if he ever even will be. Boban is just a change up.

If I'm not mistaken Brown was released already.

The biggest concern for me is Powell's lack of rebounding and rim protection come post season

Once again tonight he played 20+ minutes and grabbed only 2 rebounds a consistent pattern with him.

To put that into perspective Chriss played 5 minutes and still tied him with 2 boards.

2nd chance points vs Phoenix or Utah for example is most likely going to get the mavs killed in a playoff series especially late in games.

saclare · 02-11-2022, 12:04 AM

I really think people are underestimating Dinwiddie here. Yea Bertans is meh but he might at least get some open looks and play a small role. Hope they ease Dinwiddie in and make sure health and availability are the goals.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-11-2022, 12:07 AM

All I care about is Spencer's health. Let him rest a week if needed. Not worth having another hobbled guy on the roster.

EricaLubarsky · 02-11-2022, 12:13 AM

Kristaps shot 42.3% eFG% when assisted.
Westbrook shot 43.5% eFG% when assisted

Dinwiddie is 52.2% eFG when assisted
Bertans is 47.3% eFG

Kristaps is one of the worst efficiency guys in the league when receiving the pass which isn’t optimal when your superstar’s main skill is getting guys passes

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I really think people are underestimating Dinwiddie here. Yea Bertans is meh but he might at least get some open looks and play a small role. Hope they ease Dinwiddie in and make sure health and availability are the goals.

He’s all right for instant offense of the bench. We needed another ball handler. He’s a poor man’s Jamal Crawford or Lou Williams at best to me. Maybe a better passer, but not nearly the scorer. And he’s getting paid a ton. He can be our Jordan Clarkson, albeit way overpaid.

Bertans is crapola. He will be a change up floor spacer. May swing a game here or there in a hot night.

We just have a lot of money riding our bench. Ineptitude of Cuban at work.

Dallas41 · 02-11-2022, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kristaps shot 42.3% eFG% when assisted.
Westbrook shot 43.5% eFG% when assisted

Dinwiddie is 52.2% eFG when assisted
Bertans is 47.3% eFG

Kristaps is one of the worst efficiency guys in the league when receiving the pass which isn’t optimal when your superstar’s main skill is getting guys passes

Yeah but you keep reminding us of only his shooting % and never mention how he impacted the mavs defense this year.

He was definitely a key part of the defensive turnaround.

We all know he was struggling with his shot this year just like several other top heavy rotation players on the team.

But he also became more aggressive at attacking the basket which is why his percentage of FT attempts increased and his playmaking ability (passing) was very good.

At the end of the day we all understand he was not living up to the contract.

But don't try to sell us that Bertans and Diwinddie are better options.

I like Dinwiddie. In fact I mentioned last offseason the mavs should have went after him in FA but KP is still the better overall talent he just wasn't available enough.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kristaps shot 42.3% eFG% when assisted.
Westbrook shot 43.5% eFG% when assisted

Dinwiddie is 52.2% eFG when assisted
Bertans is 47.3% eFG

Kristaps is one of the worst efficiency guys in the league when receiving the pass which isn’t optimal when your superstar’s main skill is getting guys passes

Can we see the defensive side? I appreciate everyone’s positivity, maybe I’m being too negative. I just think Dinwiddie is empty calories and Bertans is a stiff. And they both get paid a crap ton.

I’m not a KP fan and said this summer trade him for whatever you can get. I just didn’t expect them to whiff so horribly on a deal. Thank god we didn’t have any first round picks for Cuban to toss around at this deadline. This summer we re-sign Brunson to 20m deal and pay OKC with our 1st round pick to get off Bertans. Book it.

FreshJive · 02-11-2022, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I was disappointed

But the more I think about it, Dinwiddie is our sixth man ball handler. Other than being another friend to Luka a la Boban, I don’t get the need for Dragic after today.

Agreed. They would have to cut someone, too. I doubt Dragic would want to come here now that his role might even be smaller.

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

He’s all right for instant offense of the bench. We needed another ball handler. He’s a poor man’s Jamal Crawford or Lou Williams at best to me. Maybe a better passer, but not nearly the scorer. And he’s getting paid a ton. He can be our Jordan Clarkson, albeit way overpaid.

Bertans is crapola. He will be a change up floor spacer. May swing a game here or there in a hot night.

We just have a lot of money riding our bench. Ineptitude of Cuban at work.

Is he getting paid a ton? Makes less than THJ and provides more even after injury.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Is he getting paid a ton? Makes less than THJ and provides more even after injury.

18.8m for him is a ton. To me at least. He’s best as a bench spark. Even pre-injury. And the guy has had like 2-3 major injuries now which have caused him to miss entire seasons. 18m for Bertans is also a ton, to me. Bertans is barely playable and his contract also runs one year longer than KP.

EricaLubarsky · 02-11-2022, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Can we see the defensive side? I appreciate everyone’s positivity, maybe I’m being too negative. I just think Dinwiddie is empty calories and Bertans is a stiff. And they both get paid a crap ton.

I’m not a KP fan and said this summer trade him for whatever you can get. I just didn’t expect them to whiff so horribly on a deal. Thank god we didn’t have any first round picks for Cuban to toss around at this deadline. This summer we re-sign Brunson to 20m deal and pay OKC with our 1st round pick to get off Bertans. Book it.

We can talk defense but not a single stat shows that he’s a defensive game changer. We’re better defensively with him off the floor

We allow 111.5points per 100 possessions with him on the floor. We allow 110.9 points with him OFF the floor.

Stats are skewed but you’d think you could find at least one positive defensive stat for a guy who is supposedly a defensive juggernaut. Instead every defensive stat shows that we’re worse with him.

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

18.8m for him is a ton. To me at least. He’s best as a bench spark. Even pre-injury. And the guy has had like 2-3 major injuries now which have caused him to miss entire seasons. 18m for Bertans is also a ton, to me. Bertans is barely playable and his contract also runs one year longer than KP.

18m. And then 10m. That's not a ton IMO. If Spencer makes a ton, then THJ is astronomical. 12/6/5 is solid production off an injury. He's had 7 double digit assist games this season. Pre injury he was definitely starter material. 20/4/7 is great aside from not being a great defender which I think Kidd will get more out of him as long as he is healthy enough to react to his man and pick up our team defensive schemes. It won't matter too much right away since he will be 2nd unit guy. You rarely face potent 2nd units.

You have to separate Bertans from Spencer. Bertans isn't getting significant mins anyway.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We can talk defense but not a single stat shows that he’s a defensive game changer. We’re better defensively with him off the floor

We allow 111.5points per 100 possessions with him on the floor. We allow 110.9 points with him OFF the floor.

Stats are skewed but you’d think you could find at least one positive defensive stat for a guy who is supposedly a defensive juggernaut. Instead every defensive stat shows that we’re worse with him.

Fair enough. I think Dinwiddie can be a decent bench scorer for us, especially next season when he’s presumably back better from the ACL. Don’t want to be all doom and gloom. I just don’t think either of them are very good basketball players. I think I read that Dinwiddie is 172nd in the league in true shooting. He’s a level above scrub, only thinks he’s much better. A dangerous combo. Bertans is just a stiff. I guess he can be 2011 Stojakovic for us at times. One of the worst contracts in the league. Makes THJ deal look positively excellent in comparison

I just hope the two smaller contracts can be moved easier than KP could. As I said before, would it shock anyone to see Bertans moved to OKC with our 2022 first rounder in order to re-sign JB whilst saving Cuban $?

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 09:45 AM

[QUOTE=SMC0007;1505971]18m. And then 10m. That's not a ton IMO. If Spencer makes a ton, then THJ is astronomical. 12/6/5 is solid production off an injury. He's had 7 double digit assist games this season. Pre injury he was definitely starter material. 20/4/7 is great aside from not being a great defender which I think Kidd will get more out of him as long as he is healthy enough to react to his man and pick up our team defensive schemes. It won't matter too much right away since he will be 2nd unit guy. You rarely face potent 2nd units.

You have to separate Bertans from Spencer. Bertans isn't getting significant mins anyway.[/QUOTE

It’s fully guaranteed for the final season if he plays in at least 50 games this season and next. If not, he’s guaranteed 10m. Then we could trade him as a 10m expiring player after next season if he gets hurt again. At least that’s how I read it.

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 09:49 AM

[QUOTE=mac222b;1505973]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

18m. And then 10m. That's not a ton IMO. If Spencer makes a ton, then THJ is astronomical. 12/6/5 is solid production off an injury. He's had 7 double digit assist games this season. Pre injury he was definitely starter material. 20/4/7 is great aside from not being a great defender which I think Kidd will get more out of him as long as he is healthy enough to react to his man and pick up our team defensive schemes. It won't matter too much right away since he will be 2nd unit guy. You rarely face potent 2nd units.

You have to separate Bertans from Spencer. Bertans isn't getting significant mins anyway.[/QUOTE

It’s fully guaranteed for the final season if he plays in at least 50 games this season and next. If not, he’s guaranteed 10m. Then we could trade him as a 10m expiring player after next season if he gets hurt again. At least that’s how I read it.

If they don't know what they have before that then we deserve to eat that. THJ and Spencer off the bench along with Maxi is pretty damn good when they're all playing well.

EricaLubarsky · 02-11-2022, 10:45 AM

Flashback

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Flashback

Before he tore his ACL (for the second time). He’s torn both ACL now. The first time he also tore his MCL. He also thinks he’s way better than he actually is. In love with his shot, kind of like our own THJ. At least that’s been my impression of him. But hey, Cuban has a hang out buddy again to pretend to like him and make him feel “cool” so it’s all good.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 10:59 AM

Bertans was #1 on Bill Simmons worst contracts in the league piece he does every year. Stuck with him unless we attach a literary protected pick.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 11:03 AM

Simmons on Dinwiddie (29th worst contract) “I see a guy who makes 33% of his 3s, 13ppg guy. He’s losing matchups night after night. His perception of himself is so out of whack, and he cannot defend anyone.”

G-Man · 02-11-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Bertans was #1 on Bill Simmons worst contracts in the league piece he does every year. Stuck with him unless we attach a literary protected pick.

In my search for this Bill Simmons article, I found another list of worst contracts. It did not put Dinwittie or Betrans in the top 10, but KP was number 2.

https://thccommenter.medium.com/wors...e-edf5e0e938a9

EricaLubarsky · 02-11-2022, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

In my search for this Bill Simmons article, I found another list of worst contracts. It did not put Dinwittie or Betrans in the top 10, but KP was number 2.

https://thccommenter.medium.com/wors...e-edf5e0e938a9

Yeah I don't think a single person is arguing that any of the contracts are good.

KP is not only overpaid, he's got a whopper 100+ million dollar contract which means teams that get him are losing more than a third of their cap for the next three years.

Bertans is terrible because even at his pre-contract price, he wasn't living up to 16mill a year. Best case in my book, he's a Walt "Wizard" Williams/ Peja Stojakovic as a big tall forward who can hit some clutch threes while having his defensive shortcomings hidden, but that means he's a guy who gets a DNP one game and then put in for a few plays the next. He could be a net positive on the court if Kidd figures it out, but he's never going to be a net positive when compared to his money. At best we rehab him to the point of being tradable or just accept his 16mill a year for the next few years while playing him in spurts to break zones like Walt Williams or Peja.

Dinwiddie? I could see him surrounded by defensive guys like Kleber and Franky Smokes in that second unit and really flourishing. He will be overpaid no matter what and I think it's a guarantee that he is going to be a defensive pit, but if we can get him putting up like 15points and 5assists and being good enough to get Brunson/Luka some breaks, he will be a net positive, albeit one that isn't worth the 17mill. I guess I'm just most excited about having that third playmaker because it seems like Brunson is our starting SG now and Burke/Frank are not capable of running an offense. We need another guy who is capable of not only scoring, but also running an offense. Right now Kidd is having to overplay Luka and be smart with his Brunson because our five-man lineups without Brunson/Luka are like -25. If we can even tread water with a lineup that lacks Luka/Brunson, then that is a huge pickup.

I do wonder what that means when THJ comes back. Does he return to the starting lineup and then our second string is Brunson/Dinwiddie? That does seem solid and Brunson has shown that he can be good both on and off ball. If THJ keeps coming off the bench, I could see Dinwiddie getting THJ more open shots, but Dinwiddie/THJ would be a defensive nightmare. Then again, Dinwiddie could be Brunson insurance.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-11-2022, 11:32 AM

I will say this in the pro trade KP camp. I went to the Raptors game 1/19, and he looked very disinterested to be on the court. He wasn't moving without the ball basically at all. I dunno if he was hurt or just didn't care, but it was very noticeable. And it's something you can only really see in person.\

And the entire month of January was a downward trend in production.

Murphy3 · 02-11-2022, 12:24 PM

The hope is that it’s easier to move on from multiple smaller bad contracts than it is to move on from a larger bad contract. Was that worth giving up on KP? I guess we will see. I think KP always being injured had turned into a bit of a black cloud over the franchise. But, these two bad contracts will be 2 smaller black clouds hanging over the franchise as well.

Melonhead · 02-11-2022, 12:33 PM

The only real bad thing about it all is Bertans. Feel like we'll be attaching a pick to ship him out eventually.

Im shocked they dont want to help Powell out down on the block. Thought Nico wouldve picked up on that.

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 12:45 PM

We couldn't get an obvious win today trade for KP. I'm positive they tried. If you can't get better today by trades, you're at least setting yourself up in the near future to be better either by fit of Dinwiddie or moving him and other(s) along in a trade.

Imagine if KP missed this years POs or laid an egg again. His value plummets again and the limited suitors for him all go away. We are right back where we were and still have to pay JB.

Maybe once this sets in for a bit people will realize that we weren't getting anything better and were going to have to roll the dice on KP...which is all we have been doing since we traded for him.

saclare · 02-11-2022, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Before he tore his ACL (for the second time). He’s torn both ACL now. The first time he also tore his MCL. He also thinks he’s way better than he actually is. In love with his shot, kind of like our own THJ. At least that’s been my impression of him. But hey, Cuban has a hang out buddy again to pretend to like him and make him feel “cool” so it’s all good.

Lose the schtick, it's tiring. That has no influence on basketball operations.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Lose the schtick, it's tiring. That has no influence on basketball operations.

What’s tiring is people who speak in platitudes like Bertans is “meh” and Dinwiddie might be all right. Sorry to be so opinionated. Cuban is a desperate mess, he was even seen hanging out at a crypto conference with Dinwiddie like two weeks ago and people made jokes then about “trade for Spencer Dinwiddie incoming!” You know why? Because we have a body of work now that shows Cuban as a first class tool that would absolutely not be above trading for a guy to salve his fragile ego and make him feel cooler or smarter. Have you seen him hanging off the necks of our players at the ends of games?

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 01:30 PM

I’m not sure why having anything bad to say about Cuban should even be controversial at this point. Does ANYONE like or respect the guy? Show of hands. Is the general consensus not that he’s a clown. Do you not think the real badass GMs and owners and agents and players around the league view him as anything thing other than an insecure try hard train wreck or easy “mark.”

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 01:38 PM

I have to agree about Cuban to an extent. Maybe not the exact previously mentioned comment on the motivation behind trading for SD, but he is a tool often times, hard to deny that.

mac222b · 02-11-2022, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I have to agree about Cuban to an extent. Maybe not the exact previously mentioned comment on the motivation behind trading for SD, but he is a tool often times, hard to deny that.

I don’t want to misrepresent: I’m not saying by any means that that’s WHY they made the trade. It was partly made in jest and to some extent anger. Just the fact that it can’t be entirely dismissed out of hand though is telling. People were literally joking about it like a week ago after they were seen hanging out.

SMC0007 · 02-11-2022, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don’t want to misrepresent: I’m not saying by any means that that’s WHY they made the trade. It was partly made in jest and to some extent anger. Just the fact that it can’t be entirely dismissed out of hand though is telling. People were literally joking about it like a week ago after they were seen hanging out.

Exactly. I just wanted to make it clear to others that I'm not referring that suggestion is what I agreed with, it's that I think Cuban is a fn tool often times and my guess is that's likely to be the majority opinion.

saclare · 02-11-2022, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

What’s tiring is people who speak in platitudes like Bertans is “meh” and Dinwiddie might be all right. Sorry to be so opinionated. Cuban is a desperate mess, he was even seen hanging out at a crypto conference with Dinwiddie like two weeks ago and people made jokes then about “trade for Spencer Dinwiddie incoming!” You know why? Because we have a body of work now that shows Cuban as a first class tool that would absolutely not be above trading for a guy to salve his fragile ego and make him feel cooler or smarter. Have you seen him hanging off the necks of our players at the ends of games?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I’m not sure why having anything bad to say about Cuban should even be controversial at this point. Does ANYONE like or respect the guy? Show of hands. Is the general consensus not that he’s a clown. Do you not think the real badass GMs and owners and agents and players around the league view him as anything thing other than an insecure try hard train wreck or easy “mark.”

I get it now and you just have a deep rooted bias against the guy. Still doesn't validate the stupid assumption having a connection via NFTs made Cuban direct the FO to go get Dinwiddie. Congrats, you doubled down.

saclare · 02-11-2022, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don’t want to misrepresent: I’m not saying by any means that that’s WHY they made the trade. It was partly made in jest and to some extent anger. Just the fact that it can’t be entirely dismissed out of hand though is telling. People were literally joking about it like a week ago after they were seen hanging out.

It can be entirely dismissed.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-11-2022, 02:46 PM

The fact that the Kings turned down Westbrook for Hield makes me feel better. You don't want to get stuck in a contract like that that nobody wants. We at least got a Hield level player in return.

EricaLubarsky · 02-11-2022, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The fact that the Kings turned down Westbrook for Hield makes me feel better. You don't want to get stuck in a contract like that that nobody wants. We at least got a Hield level player in return.

Lakers were desperate. DESPERATE to dump Westbrook's max contract and could not. Rockets wanted to dump Wall's max contract.

Mavs were the only ones to get out of a disastrous max contract.

BPo001 · 02-11-2022, 03:25 PM

Long-term teammate Luka Doncic, who scored a new career-high of 51 points in Dallas’ win over the LA Clippers Thursday, commented on the trade, which came as a shock for the NBA world. “Obviously, we’re going to miss KP,” Doncic told reporters after the game. “We were building something great here. It didn’t obviously work out”. – via EuroHoops.net