2018 NBA Draft - Page 45 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 05-21-2018, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Who says the players are future NBA players? Maybe some end up in china pretty soon, maybe some are career towel waivers...maybe some has worse NBA careers than Nick Calathes...

Because all of the guys I just named are projected to go in the 1st round (most of them in the lottery range), whereas Nick Calathes went #45 overall... Sure, some of them can bust out of the league, but at least they're all seen as having high-end NBA potential in the first place... That was never the case with Calathes, and his career trajectory has proven why.

FreshJive · 05-21-2018, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

And how many years has Ginobli been a bench player? I just dont see what people see in Doncic when it comes to a big star.

Manu at age 40

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/s...35170903928832

Is Doncic this athletic? I don't know, but he is 2 inches taller and looks like he has even better handles.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-21-2018, 09:09 PM

Calathes never made it because he was kinda a head case right? So weird that he is a superstar in that league.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Manu at age 40

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/s...35170903928832

Is Doncic this athletic? I don't know, but he is 2 inches taller and looks like he has even better handles.

Yes. Doncic is that athletic..but he's far from a grown man so I dont think he will be 'dunk on people agressive' right out of the box.

SMC0007 · 05-21-2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Because all of the guys I just named are projected to go in the 1st round (most of them in the lottery range), whereas Nick Calathes went #45 overall... Sure, some of them can bust out of the league, but at least they're all seen as having high-end NBA potential in the first place... That was never the case with Calathes, and his career trajectory has proven why.

Even still, I think there is stock to be taken from euro success on the level he is having. Calathes and many euro players are vets and have higher IQ than most lotto picks coming in. Others have athleticism near the level of nba players, but the IQ isnt there.. or they would be in the league. They are good but cant put it all together enough to be in the nba..for now.

Doncic would probably snicker at the nba crowds and environment. It's ridiculous over there.

EricaLubarsky · 05-21-2018, 10:42 PM

I’m glad we have some Doncic supporters here. I’m not one but I have a feeling we’ll end up with him

FreshJive · 05-22-2018, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I’m glad we have some Doncic supporters here. I’m not one but I have a feeling we’ll end up with him

Your sig used to be Noel, but Bamba could fit in there. I see what you did.

FreshJive · 05-22-2018, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yes. Doncic is that athletic..but he's far from a grown man so I dont think he will be 'dunk on people agressive' right out of the box.

If he is as athletic as Manu, then he is a no brainer. He would be able to get anywhere he wants on the court like Harden. If he has a Kidd/Nash IQ, then this is his magical upside as a player. Manu/Kidd/Nash/Harden hybrid. I doubt he is any of these things, because how would he drop to 5?

j0Shi · 05-22-2018, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

My thing is people downplaying the high risk of picking him like it's a sure thing. To me, he is the highest risk of the top 6 talent.

I think he'll be a good player, no doubt, but he isn't what the Mavs need if the FO doesn't think for sure he'll be superstar.

Certainly interesting how perceptions differ. Imho he's one of the safest picks of the draft, next to Mikal Bridges. Like Erica said, high floor, probably lower ceiling than others, but maybe not even that.

I'm baffled how people can even think about putting Porter above him. Luka has YEARS of professional experience already and Porter didn't even play college + injury scare. I don't think I'll survive taking Porter at five if both he and Doncic are still available. Would probably instantly become the biggest draft fail in history.

SMC0007 · 05-22-2018, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I’m glad we have some Doncic supporters here. I’m not one but I have a feeling we’ll end up with him

I wasn't one of the supporters at first either, but I watched as much footage as I could find and I came around on him quite a bit. He's really fluid sees the floor well he does everything you want including gandles that should turn out to be elite...but hes likely not going to be a high flyer and that's what a lot of people I think are in love with. It's more so from immature fans but unfortunately it does exist.

SMC0007 · 05-22-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

If he is as athletic as Manu, then he is a no brainer. He would be able to get anywhere he wants on the court like Harden. If he has a Kidd/Nash IQ, then this is his magical upside as a player. Manu/Kidd/Nash/Harden hybrid. I doubt he is any of these things, because how would he drop to 5?

He wont make it to 5. That said, People miss all the time on this stuff so maybe him saying hes basically not 100% sure hes coming over could push him down some.

I just want whoever we get to show at least as much promise as DSJ did in his rookie year if not more.

mac222b · 05-22-2018, 08:43 AM

Doncic is nowhere near the fluid athlete Manu is. My concern with him is his %'s around the basket. Thats not likely to improve in the NBA, at least not for a few years. I think he can improve his 3 point shooting, which will be hugely important for him. I think he can be at least a league average defender guarding threes, select twos and eventually 4's.

Manu is/was an all-time great at making tough contested runners at the rim from different angles. I'd like to see Doncic work at that. He seems to have a nice pull up jumper. Doncic does have elite court vision. Someone mentioned Ingles. Ingles is effective because he is an elite 3 point shooter with good handles, good length and strength and great vision. Doncic seems to have those things though Ingles seems to have a better reach

One encouraging thing about Doncic is he looks almost more comfortable shooting 3's off the dribble step back, ala Manu and Ingles, which should gain him some more space to operate.

Side note: Its been interesting to see the step back 3 become an accepted and necessary part of an offensive players arsenal. Was totally verboten when I was playing growing up. Also the Curry Effect on pick-up basketball has been pretty terrible. Lots of dribbling to nowhere and eventual reckless jacked up jumper. 3 is worth more than 2, but not when you're shooting 15% from 3 or taking long 2s!

SMC0007 · 05-22-2018, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Doncic is nowhere near the fluid athlete Manu is. My concern with him is his %'s around the basket. Thats not likely to improve in the NBA, at least not for a few years. I think he can improve his 3 point shooting, which will be hugely important for him. I think he can be at least a league average defender guarding threes, select twos and eventually 4's.

Manu is/was an all-time great at making tough contested runners at the rim from different angles. I'd like to see Doncic work at that. He seems to have a nice pull up jumper. Doncic does have elite court vision. Someone mentioned Ingles. Ingles is effective because he is an elite 3 point shooter with good handles, good length and strength and great vision. Doncic seems to have those things though Ingles seems to have a better reach

One encouraging thing about Doncic is he looks almost more comfortable shooting 3's off the dribble step back, ala Manu and Ingles, which should gain him some more space to operate.

Side note: Its been interesting to see the step back 3 become an accepted and necessary part of an offensive players arsenal. Was totally verboten when I was playing growing up. Also the Curry Effect on pick-up basketball has been pretty terrible. Lots of dribbling to nowhere and eventual reckless jacked up jumper. 3 is worth more than 2, but not when you're shooting 15% from 3 or taking long 2s!

He's easily as fluid and smooth.

Manu Rookie year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=f-R6CSw5sa8

Doncic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63o8H0vMR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9flJ_nUAhw

EricaLubarsky · 05-22-2018, 09:40 AM

Problem with Doncic is also the problem with Ayton and Bamba: the league is going in a direction that may really hinder them as players.

For Bamba and Ayton it's the fact that many teams are forgoing centers altogether and playing forwards at the center spot (6'10" Hortford, 6'9" Tristan Thompson, 6'10" Capela, 6'7" Green with 6'10" Durant next to him). No team in the finals this year is playing a true seven footer.

For Doncic it's about teams getting longer and faster. Teams have more players able to absolutely stifle the drive and interrupt passing lanes. That's going to be a huge and painful transition as he comes to the league. Euroleague may be physical, but the NBA is so much faster and longer. When I see Doncic make those moves in Euroleague I just try to think about him doing those things against some of the long, quick defenders in the NBA.

Then again, BBIQ and craftiness can overcome most defense. Transcendent players change the trend or at least buck the trend. Dirk was slow, had a relatively small wingspan, and seemed like a fossil from a prior era and yet he brought back a whole style of play.

mac222b · 05-22-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

He's easily as fluid and smooth.

Manu Rookie year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=f-R6CSw5sa8

Doncic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63o8H0vMR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9flJ_nUAhw

I watched all of that. Have seen lots of Doncic. Nowhere do I see an athlete as smooth or fluid as Manu. Manu is quicker and faster. He explodes forward consistently in a way I've yet to see from Luka. Best eurostep ever.

GermanStandard · 05-22-2018, 11:28 AM

Ayton = David Robinson with Range
Bagley = KG with Left Hand and worse Defense
Porter Jr = Mix of Simmons and Durant but worse than both in all areas
Doncic = Mix of Hayward and Ginobili
Bamba = Nerlens Noel with a Jumper and Brain
Jaren Jackson = Noah Vonleh with higher Ceiling

If im the Mavs i take Bamba or Doncic.

Doncic will be a Star in this League. His Athleticism isnt that bad. Hes just average there.
This guy turned 19 and won Euroleague MVP, Spanish MVP and carried a Top 3 Team in Europe.
He is truly special. If he works with all these strength and condition coaches in the NBA he can still develop more bounce.
Dont forget that he played against grown men, true Pros, former NBA Players. He still had great Stats and dominated.
College Players play most of their games against kids who flip Burgers come Summer.

Bambas Ceiling is just skyhigh. Higher than anyone else in this Draft. Might become Nerlens Noel or Rudy Gobert but might become a gamechanger.

Jackson i pass. Ayton will go #1 and Porters back scared me also has huge bust potential.

SMC0007 · 05-22-2018, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I watched all of that. Have seen lots of Doncic. Nowhere do I see an athlete as smooth or fluid as Manu. Manu is quicker and faster. He explodes forward consistently in a way I've yet to see from Luka. Best eurostep ever.

It's interesting how people see things so differently.

Fwiw. Manu may be a little quicker, maybe.. but he is also a bit shorter so that's not so surprising if he was a tiny bit quicker or faster.

Underdog · 05-22-2018, 06:47 PM

NBA Draft 2018: Michael Porter, Jr. Profile
https://bibscorner.com/2018/05/22/nb...er-jr-profile/

Quote:

By no means am I saying that Porter is going to have Dirk’s career, but as far as his skill set and playing style he is shades of young Dirk.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-22-2018, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

NBA Draft 2018: Michael Porter, Jr. Profile
https://bibscorner.com/2018/05/22/nb...er-jr-profile/

FreshJive · 05-22-2018, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

NBA Draft 2018: Michael Porter, Jr. Profile
https://bibscorner.com/2018/05/22/nb...er-jr-profile/

I’ve seen this others make this comparison. Saying he could take over Dirk’s role in Carlisle’s offense.

SMC0007 · 05-22-2018, 11:04 PM

Somebody is going to have to try to climb that mountain. Maybe he can. Hell if he even comes close it would be a perfectly timed miracle.

GermanStandard · 05-23-2018, 03:26 AM

Dirk? He is nothing like Dirk. Not even Close.

He is more of a bad Version of Paul George with a terrible back injury.

I see some skillset of Ben Simmons and KD but way worse too.

j0Shi · 05-23-2018, 04:36 AM

I like how people are trying talk up Porter. Maybe we get lucky and someone in the top 4 falls in love with him...

saclare · 05-23-2018, 10:07 AM

No one is talking up Porter. He has plenty of accolades up to this point in his career, talents be damned, to not be mentioned in the top 5 or 6 in this draft. He doesn't need talking up.

EricaLubarsky · 05-23-2018, 10:25 AM

I mean, we already drafted a guy like Porter last year. Smith fell because he had a torn ACL and people thought he'd never recover or that it would dog him his whole career. Otherwise Smith Jr. would have gone in the top 4-5. Porter is a guy that is potentially in the same spot. Talent of a top 2-4 pick, but health concerns bringing him down.

We will have a selection of 2-4 guys I like a lot (Jackson, Porter, Bamba, Bridges). It won't come down to a choice between a guy like Porter Jr. or Wendell Carter, but I'd rather take a risk trying to get a potential star like Porter than getting a sure thing like Juwan Howard.

Then again I think that Bridges and Bamba are better wagers. Jackson has a similar upside/risk/chance of being an incredible player. I still won't be sad if we end up with Porter.

Luke · 05-23-2018, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

No one is talking up Porter. He has plenty of accolades up to this point in his career, talents be damned, to not be mentioned in the top 5 or 6 in this draft. He doesn't need talking up.

You must not listen to DFW radio.. He's been talked up on several local radio shows..

BPo001 · 05-23-2018, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

You must not listen to DFW radio.. He's been talked up on several local radio shows..

I listen to 105.3 pretty regularly and haven't heard much about Porter. Mostly been Skin talking up Bamba.

sefant77 · 05-23-2018, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I mean, we already drafted a guy like Porter last year. Smith fell because he had a torn ACL and people thought he'd never recover or that it would dog him his whole career. Otherwise Smith Jr. would have gone in the top 4-5. Porter is a guy that is potentially in the same spot. Talent of a top 2-4 pick, but health concerns bringing him down.

You can say the same with euro guys falling because they are "euros".

2015 draft. An old school center with Okafor getting picked ahead of Porzingis, an modern nba unicorn with size and range.

But Okafor "was proven" and Porz the stiffy weak sauce euro

SMC0007 · 05-23-2018, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

You can say the same with euro guys falling because they are "euros".

2015 draft. An old school center with Okafor getting picked ahead of Porzingis, an modern nba unicorn with size and range.

But Okafor "was proven" and Porz the stiffy weak sauce euro

Markkanen too. I remember lots of folks were down on him. Not aggressive enough, stiff, wasnt athletic enough to thrive in the nba. Looks like a future all star to me...surprisingly

Bryan_Wilson · 05-23-2018, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Markkanen too. I remember lots of folks were down on him. Not aggressive enough, stiff, wasnt athletic enough to thrive in the nba. Looks like a future all star to me...surprisingly

Yahyes right about now.

SMC0007 · 05-23-2018, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yahyes right about now.

Lol. Quick, Reverse jinx.

Scoobay · 05-24-2018, 12:01 AM

Man Donte Divincenzo looks legit... i was hoping he'd last until our 2nd round pick but it looks like he could go top 20 or top 25 at least. He's got big hops (like 42"), pretty good handles, range from deep, and good size (almost 6'5").

Underdog · 05-24-2018, 06:00 AM

@NBADraftGod: BREAKING: Barring the possibility of another team trading into the top 2 & swooping him up, the Atlanta Hawks are primed to select Oklahoma’s Trae Young with the 3rd pick in the 2018 NBA Draft, sources tell Rufus N. Dooze of @NBADraftGod.

Underdog · 05-24-2018, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@NBADraftGod: BREAKING: Barring the possibility of another team trading into the top 2 & swooping him up, the Atlanta Hawks are primed to select Oklahoma’s Trae Young with the 3rd pick in the 2018 NBA Draft, sources tell Rufus N. Dooze of @NBADraftGod.

If true, then this is the best-case scenario, effectively giving us the #4 pick for all intents and purposes... I don't really see the Hawks trading down to get Trae, since Orlando has their sights on him at #6... And there's really no reason for Dallas to trade up since either Bagley, Porter, or Doncic would be slipping to #5 in this case.

I actually saw a FOX Sports mock yesterday that had MPJ going #2 overall, and I still think Bagley makes the most sense in Memphis... So lemme talk myself into this scenario for a sec:

1. Phoenix: DeAndre Ayton
2. Sacramento: Michael Porter Jr
3. Atlanta: Trae Young
4. Memphis: Marvin Bagley
5. Dallas: Luka Doncic

I'm obviously not as high on Luka as most, and still think he has some clear limitations, but I could definitely live with us picking him if we're not giving up assets to trade up for him. Really, just knowing that a possible #1 scorer like Bagley, Porter, or Doncic could slip to #5 gives me more hope for this draft (my worst-case scenario has those 3 and Ayton off the board before we pick)... I've kinda soured on Bagley a bit after EL pointed out that the centers left in the playoffs are 6'10" Hortford, 6'9" Tristan Thompson, 6'10" Capela, and 6'7" Green -- just not sure if a 7'0" giant with limited effective range can make a dent in today's NBA... I still think JJJ's stretch-5 game has a lot of potential, but the Mavs need a #1 scorer more than anything else right now, and the Hawks may be serving one to us on a silver platter... Not sure if I could pass up Luka at #5.

Not saying he'll slip to us, but Atlanta taking Trae certainly makes it a stronger possibility... I could also talk myself into Bagley for the same reasons.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-24-2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

If true, then this is the best-case scenario, effectively giving us the #4 pick for all intents and purposes... I don't really see the Hawks trading down to get Trae, since Orlando has their sights on him at #6... And there's really no reason for Dallas to trade up since either Bagley, Porter, or Doncic would be slipping to #5 in this case.

I actually saw a FOX Sports mock yesterday that had MPJ going #2 overall, and I still think Bagley makes the most sense in Memphis... So lemme talk myself into this scenario for a sec:

1. Phoenix: DeAndre Ayton
2. Sacramento: Michael Porter Jr
3. Atlanta: Trae Young
4. Memphis: Marvin Bagley
5. Dallas: Luka Doncic

I'm obviously not as high on Luka as most, and still think he has some clear limitations, but I could definitely live with us picking him if we're not giving up assets to trade up for him. Really, just knowing that a possible #1 scorer like Bagley, Porter, or Doncic could slip to #5 gives me more hope for this draft (my worst-case scenario has those 3 and Ayton off the board before we pick)... I've kinda soured on Bagley a bit after EL pointed out that the centers left in the playoffs are 6'10" Hortford, 6'9" Tristan Thompson, 6'10" Capela, and 6'7" Green -- just not sure if a 7'0" giant with limited effective range can make a dent in today's NBA... I still think JJJ's stretch-5 game has a lot of potential, but the Mavs need a #1 scorer more than anything else right now, and the Hawks may be serving one to us on a silver platter... Not sure if I could pass up Luka at #5.

Not saying he'll slip to us, but Atlanta taking Trae certainly makes it a stronger possibility... I could also talk myself into Bagley for the same reasons.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-24-2018, 08:25 AM

This is why there is no reason to freak out about the draft position...

HOWEVER, the Hawks would be dumb not to trade back since Young is slated 6-8 position.

Dream scenario but tough choice....WHAT IF....

Bagley AND Doncic are there at 5? WHO DO YOU TAKE?

SMC0007 · 05-24-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

This is why there is no reason to freak out about the draft position...

HOWEVER, the Hawks would be dumb not to trade back since Young is slated 6-8 position.

Dream scenario but tough choice....WHAT IF....

Bagley AND Doncic are there at 5? WHO DO YOU TAKE?

It's a toss up... I might ever so slightly lean to Bagley just becssue im not sold on Powell or Motley. Although it's a very close call for me because I still believe we are hurting more for playmaking and size at the 2. I think we are more "ok" at the 4/5 with those two than we are at quality guard/wing. I really want to see much more of Motley and I dont easily see how that happens with Bagely here. I'd be ok with either pick until the one we pick doesnt outshine the other.

Bryan_Wilson · 05-24-2018, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

This is why there is no reason to freak out about the draft position...

HOWEVER, the Hawks would be dumb not to trade back since Young is slated 6-8 position.

Dream scenario but tough choice....WHAT IF....

Bagley AND Doncic are there at 5? WHO DO YOU TAKE?

I think those are the 2 most divisive names maybe of the top 6 around here at least. People either rly like Doncic or are afraid of his lack of athleticism. And people either like Bagley for his offensive game or are very concerned of his poor defense and possible tweener role. The general consensus though from things to read is they are both considered top 3, so this situation would be really hard to dislike no matter the pick.

For me it's a landslide for Doncic over Bagley but I think everyone at least will accept any of the top 6 names we have discussed and take a wait and see approach with who we take at least.

Underdog · 05-24-2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

HOWEVER, the Hawks would be dumb not to trade back since Young is slated 6-8 position.

Orlando will probably take him at #6, as they have far more use for Trae than they do Bamba, JJJ, Bridges, Carter, etc... They need a PG first and foremost.

sefant77 · 05-24-2018, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

This is why there is no reason to freak out about the draft position...

HOWEVER, the Hawks would be dumb not to trade back since Young is slated 6-8 position.

Dream scenario but tough choice....WHAT IF....

Bagley AND Doncic are there at 5? WHO DO YOU TAKE?

Doncic of course

Dont want Marvin Williams 2.0 (hot take! hot take!)