Last Stop on The 'V'-Train

[Janett_Reno]

Last Stop on The 'V'-Train

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20546336/site/newsweek/

Sept. 10, 2007 issue - Earlier this year, Idaho Sen. Larry Craig explained why he favors Mitt Romney. "First and foremost," Craig said, "he has very strong family values." That platitude had power for Craig, as it did for his party. But it turns out that family values might no longer have a "wide stance" athwart American politics. The haste with which his fellow Republicans called for Craig's resignation suggests that they fear many voters will no longer automatically associate the GOP with superior moral standing.

Craig's humiliating story, amplified in more than 10,000 blog posts, isn't new, and not just because homosexual men have been trysting in the toilet area since the introduction of public restrooms more than a century ago. The conservative-hypocrisy angle goes way back, too. When I first moved to Washington, D.C., in 1980, Maryland Rep. Bob Bauman, arguably the single most anti-gay and sanctimonious right-winger in town (quite a feat), was busted for sex with a 16-year-old male dancer. Soon he was joined by Mississippi Rep. Jon Hinson, found in a compromising position in a men's room down the hall from his House office, and the Franklin child-sex ring, which ensnared more than a dozen officials in the Reagan and first Bush administrations. I remember thinking, this will stop the moralizing windbags who are pushing aside old-fashioned, leave-us-alone libertarians.

How naive. In succeeding years, the hypocrisy just rose to a higher level. Both House Speaker Newt Gingrich and his (brief) successor, Rep. Bob Livingston, ripped into President Bill Clinton while they were having affairs themselves. When House Majority Leader Trent Lott asked all Republican senators to show up at Clinton's 1998 State of the Union address as a sign of respect for the office, Larry Craig was one of only two senators who refused, later calling Clinton a "nasty, bad, naughty boy."


By 2004, Karl Rove used fear of moral decay (as reflected primarily in gay marriage) to whip the conservative base into a frenzy that helped re-elect President George W. Bush and scores of Republicans. Post-election studies showed "values voters" were not as big a factor as the media initially reported, but this hardly discredited their importance: with Democrats tone-deaf on the issue, it looked as if the GOP could ride the "V"-train forever.

It couldn't. Results from the 2006 midterms showed that lingering anxiety about homosexuality is being decoupled from the Republican Party, as Democrats picked up seats in Virginia, Wisconsin and Colorado even as those states approved anti-gay-marriage ballot initiatives. Conversely, Arizona easily re-elected Republican Sen. Jon Kyl while becoming the first state to defeat an anti-gay-marriage referendum, further evidence that the gay issue is becoming less partisan.

More immediately, the GOP may be collapsing under the weight of sleaze. Last week MSNBC tallied 10 sex scandals featuring Republican officeholders in the past decade, twice as many as afflicted the Democrats. And Josh Marshall's talkingpointsmemo.com compiled a list of a dozen elected officials currently in trouble with the law for sex offenses or financial improprieties. Only one, Rep. William Jefferson, is a Democrat.

Predictably, most Republicans in trouble haven't been shunned like Craig. Senate Republicans gave their colleague, Louisiana's David Vitter, a nice ovation shortly after he confessed to having sex with prostitutes (note that a Vitter replacement, unlike Craig's, would be named by a Democratic governor). But something is different this time: usually the party in control of Congress suffers the most from scandal. So far, it's the minority—the Republicans—getting hammered.

The woes of Craig and Vitter won't hurt the GOP nationally in 2008. To cause widespread political harm, a scandal must occur within 90 days or so of an election, as Rep. Mark Foley's lewd e-mail messages to underage male staffers did last year. But Republican consultant Scott Reed is hardly alone in believing these GOP scandals are having a "devastating" cumulative effect. They demoralize the conservative base and make it harder to recruit topnotch candidates to run next year. Nominating Romney because he's been married only once is not going to solve the problem.

In the long term, though, the end of the reign of family values may be a blessing in disguise for the GOP. It has tied its fortunes too closely to evangelical Christians, who make up less than one fifth of the American electorate. To expand the party in the new century, Republicans will eventually have to lift their suffocating veil of sanctimony. "First and foremost" for politicians of every stripe are vision, competence and commitment to a particular set of social and economic ideas, not some claim of moral superiority every bit as noxious as garden-variety hypocrisy.

[dude1394]

I think I'll still prefer a political party that will drum out folks like Larry Craig versus one that thinks screwing an intern in the oval office is okey-dokey and should be defended at all costs.

Just silly that way I guess.

for example.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...-focus-on.html

Man 1: Do you hear about the senator who resigned after being busted in a men's room in Minnesota?

Man 2: Yeah. That's horrible. But, at least the Republicans resign... Did you hear about the guy busted with $90,000 in his freezer?... Yeah, he's still in office!

Are we starting to see a pattern, yet?
Maybe, this will refresh your memory some:

** Republican Rep. Mark Foley resigns from Congress after he exchanged raunchy electronic messages with a teenage boy. No crime was committed.

** Republican Majority Leader Rep Tom Delay steps down after allegations of conspiracy and money laundering. Some bogus charges later dropped. No crime was committed.

** Senator Larry Craig (R-ID) steps down after pleading guilty to lewd conduct.

** Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) answered an ad placed in a Washington, D.C. homosexual paper, the Washington Blade, by Stephen Gobie, a male prostitute. Gobie became Barney Frank’s live-in sexual companion, and was soon running a male prostitution ring from Barney Frank’s condo. Today Frank chairs the Financial Services Committee.

** Rep. Gerry Studds (D-MA) has sex with underage male House page. Studds turns his back on the House when he is censured. He continued to serve in House for six more terms.

** Senate Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) plagued by scandals: Abramoff Scandal, Sons who are lobbyists, boxing tickets and other perks, land deal that made him $1 million, etc.- Serves as democratic Senate Majority Leader.

** Hillary Clinton (D-NY) Her husband is impeached- record number of scandals and convictions during his term in office. She herself takes money from FBI fugitive. Today she is leading democratic candidate for president.

** Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) kills girl . Leaves her in pond to drown. Today he is second longest serving member (next to the former kleagle) in the Senate.

** Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) former Ku Klux Klan Kleagle (recruiter). Today Byrd is longest serving member in the senate.

** Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt)- in a 1985 television appearance Leahy disclosed classified information that one of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's telephone conversations had been intercepted. The information that Leahy revealed had been used in the operation to capture the Arab terrorists who had hijacked the Achille Lauro cruise ship and killed American citizens, and the Union-Tribune claimed that Leahy's indiscretion may have cost the life of at least one of the Egyptian operatives involved in that operation. Because of his several leaks he was forced to step down from his seat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Today he is Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

** Democratic Iowan Senator Tom Harkin (and John Kerry D-MA) traveled to Managua, Nicaragua to assure Fidel Castro's proxy Daniel Ortega that Senate Democrats were working overtime to thwart President Reagan's efforts to bring Democracy to the region. Today he is head of Senate agriculture committee.

Are we starting to see a pattern???

Clearly there is a difference between the political parties.

[Janett_Reno]

Why is David Vitter still in? Maybe because it is a Democrat governor in the state? In most of your comments about Craig, you are upset with the Republican party because they did not back Craig on his bathroom follies. Asking why aren't they backing their man because maybe this is not so bad what he has done. You can't have it both way's.

The one liners and blaming Craig's bathroom follies on Clinton, won't work anymore. Blaming the Iraq war on Bubba won't work anymore or blame it on Jimmy Carter. Blamming why this country is flat broke and why we owe China every red cent we have now, is not Ted Kennedy's fault. Why people like Haggard choose to see male prostitutes, buying meth off the streets and David Vitter having prostitutes on the side can not be blammed on Barney Frank. If Rudy likes to wear womens pantyhose and slip on some fine nice sexy dresses is not Barney Frank's fault.

See the pattern? That use to work by saying here is our answer. God bless America, mission accomplished, i didn't do it Bubba did, faith and morals, we are kind conservative and passinate, so do ou think we do any wrong?

So what is happening, is the American people can see and listen with their own eyes and ears these days and guess what? The American people are starting to care now where most couldn't even tell you who our president or vice pres was. It is no longer, well let Karl answer that for me or let my main man Chains answer that and expecially now as Ramsfield is gone because he had an answer for everyone and everything. I think he was about the only man in the world that could compete with Karl on having answers for everything and everyone.

The days of going out and saying we are the morals party is gone. Rudy and Fred do not know where they stand on abortions, Rudy has women fetishes, Both have been married about 3 or 4 times and this doesn't fit the mold of faith and morals. Mitt Romney fits the bill better on that than any. Alot of the faith based in the south, is saying we don't think we can vote for Rudy. These are Republican voters and they say it is because he has been married so many times but it is all the above i have pointed out.

The American people have more compassion for someone being honest. Not like a guy like Craig and Vitter as Craig was so vocal on all the tv channels about Bubba getting a bj. This was not morally right and now he is going into bathrooms approaching strangers? See where this problem leads us? Not honest. That is like me telling you, you need to stop smoking as it is bad for you and me smoking 3 packs a day. Not right.

It is a game now in politics to tell on the other and blame it on someone else, not yourself. The Karl game is when someone asks you a question, blame it on Bubba or even JFK is you can. Never take responsibility for your own actions. Answer a question with a question. The American people have woke up and most do care now as it is affecting them in their wallet. When it becomes between a person and their wallet, they start to pay attention. They know you can't stand by your man Mark Foley, Craig, Haggard and others. Boot them to the curb, it is politics and like Newt. They booted him as they used him up and threw him away like a rag doll.

Why do you think alot of Republicans are upset with this administartion? They are ripping the morals, the core of what they say they stand for. If i am wrong, we will see a big senate and congress win for the Republicans with a new Republican president but again i do not see it happening as the flock is not sticking together. Plus weekly or so you are hearing of sex scandals and if it keeps on, the Democrats might start running as the faith and morals party.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Why is David Vitter still in? Maybe because it is a Democrat governor in the state? In most of your comments about Craig, you are upset with the Republican party because they did not back Craig on his bathroom follies. Asking why aren't they backing their man because maybe this is not so bad what he has done. You can't have it both way's. .

I don't think you read that closely. I just don't see a crime in general. I have no problems with a guy who can't keep his pants on being run out of office. It's up to the folks in wherever he's from to decide it. And the party of course.

Beats me why Vitter is still in, haven't followed it that closely. Other than it seems pretty indisputable that in the vast majority of these deals, republicans resign, dems don't. And it's because their party(and voters) do not demand it of them. Or they don't feel that anything has been done anyway.

The one liners and blaming Craig's bathroom follies on Clinton, won't work anymore. Blaming the Iraq war on Bubba won't work anymore or blame it on Jimmy Carter. Blamming why this country is flat broke and why we owe China every red cent we have now, is not Ted Kennedy's fault. Why people like Haggard choose to see male prostitutes, buying meth off the streets and David Vitter having prostitutes on the side can not be blammed on Barney Frank. If Rudy likes to wear womens pantyhose and slip on some fine nice sexy dresses is not Barney Frank's fault.

See the pattern? That use to work by saying here is our answer. God bless America, mission accomplished, i didn't do it Bubba did, faith and morals, we are kind conservative and passinate, so do ou think we do any wrong?

Not really sure what in the world you are talking about here, except you are regurgitating the kos-kids. Sure I engage in one-liners, it's fun but I'm quite sure I've laid out my thinking on most of these issues, in depth.

Your obsession with religion is funny however.

As you can see, I think all of the dems should resign as well, and I would expect my political party to demand it, it's ONE of the reasons I'm republican.

[DevinFuture]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I think I'll still prefer a political party that will drum out folks like Larry Craig versus one that thinks screwing an intern in the oval office is okey-dokey and should be defended at all costs.

Just silly that way I guess.

for example.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...-focus-on.html

See, if the republican party didn't pretend to be the gate keepers of morality and didn't pretend that republicans are moral and democrats are immoral, than they wouldn't need to step down as often, when their human weaknesses are exposed.
But the truth is that politicians from both parties are involved in plenty of scandals.
And because only the republicans have tried to run on a platform of being morally superior, democrats involved in scandals may end up looking embarassed, but republicans come off worse--as embarassed hypocrites.

Edit: The republicans end up having to step down more after sex scandals because they had pretended to have more integrity than the democrats had; and it then becomes discovered that they, in fact, didn't. Let's not confuse their pretense for actual integrity.

[dude1394]

You call it being morally superior, others would call it just being moral. The two parties are the reflections of their electorate. One political party thinks that these things are immoral and that the folks doing them should step down. One political party (imo obviously) IS less moral than the other by the people they support, the positions they support and the people that support them.

The other party obviously does NOT think that these things are that immoral and that their politicians should NOT step down.

If you just choose the non-sex related items and focus on the bribery's, the rich pardon, kkk byrd, Lott's statemetns, Harry Reid's land-deals, etc. How do you resolve why the two parties seem to react differently to those type of transgressions.

It appears to me that there's not much that you can do as a democrat and still have the party determine that they are embarressed.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

Edit: The republicans end up having to step down more after sex scandals because they had pretended to have more integrity than the democrats had; and it then becomes discovered that they, in fact, didn't. Let's not confuse their pretense for actual integrity.

Or conversely the democrat party does NOT have more integrity and therefore these type of transgressions are not bothersome to them or their supporters.

[DevinFuture]

The two parties are the reflections of their electorate.

Exactly. Both parties have leaders that get into sex scnadals, because both parties are made up of human beings and are elected by human beings. People screw up, but the republicans, seem to want the public to believe that only democrats screw up, not republicans. So when a republican sex scandal hits the news, it invalidates the whole party's message. That's why they have to resign. The democrat involved in a sex scandal is immoral, but the republican involved in one is immoral and a fraud too! THis is why the two parties react to them differently. Because the public thinks about them differently and the consequences of a sex scandal thus have different implications depending on which party the politican is from.

The other party obviously does NOT think that these things are that immoral and that their politicians should NOT step down.

It's not obvious at all that the deomcratic party doesn't think certain things its politicians have done are immoral, including what Bubba did. Thinking what a politician has done is immoral does not mean you think he should be impeached or removed. Both parties keep their man in office after a scandal if it is politiclly feasible. It happens that it is much more often politically feasible for the democrats than for the republicans, because the democrats don't run on a platform of moral superiority.

[DevinFuture]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Or conversely the democrat party does NOT have more integrity and therefore these type of transgressions are not bothersome to them or their supporters.

You won't catch me arguing that democratic politicians have more integrity than republicans. I'm just saying they don't have any more. And the fact that they pretend to is going to catch up with them.

[Janett_Reno]

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

See, if the republican party didn't pretend to be the gate keepers of morality and didn't pretend that republicans are moral and democrats are immoral, than they wouldn't need to step down as often, when their human weaknesses are exposed.
But the truth is that politicians from both parties are involved in plenty of scandals.
And because only the republicans have tried to run on a platform of being morally superior, democrats involved in scandals may end up looking embarassed, but republicans come off worse--as embarassed hypocrites.

Edit: The republicans end up having to step down more after sex scandals because they had pretended to have more integrity than the democrats had; and it then becomes discovered that they, in fact, didn't. Let's not confuse their pretense for actual integrity.

This was a great post. This says it all. No more for me to say more on the subject dude. Barney Frank is gay and the people keep electing him. If he patrolls sex from batroom stalls, yes i feel he needs to go. I have not heard of him doing this. None of us can help if he is gay. It is some things illegal to go along with the acts they commit. Mark Foley was skating on thin ice, trying to hook up with male kids. He needs to leave and step down. This post says it all, it was David Vitter that demanded Bill Clinton to step down. Larry Craig was all over tv sasying Bill is a bad boy, bad bad boy, nasty boy. Is hetrosexual sex worse than homosexual sex? I don't think so. It was immoral what Bill did as he was married. Atleast he wasn't patrolling bathroom stalls looking for it. See what the American people are hearing and seeing?

We are morals, we have fait and values, we are not much on homo's, then things like abortion, and the list goes on and on and on but then Vitter and Craig are doing the same thing Bill did and they are the gate keepers and they can tell who you have sex with and can't have it with, when they are patrolling like flies for sex. The people see this is immoral to claim they are the chosen ones and they do no wrong, so vote for us. I feel you are seeing good valued Republicans stepping down and saying no, i am not running again. I am out of here. They do not like the direction of where the party is going. It is a complete opposite of the Regan Republicans. You are not going to get ahead blamming others for mess ups in the Republican party and neither will the Democrats. If you do wrong or make a mistake, admit it and try to move on.

Being the gate keepers you need to run a pretty tight ship.

[Janett_Reno]

The next election how can they try to trick the public they are running on faith and morals? About every week or two, another Republican gets caught with his pants down. The Democrats will hurt them bad in the debates if they run on faith and morals. They would have to stand up on the platform and say Bubba made me do it. That is not a good enough answer.

The Democrtas are going to already rail them on how we have went in the hole worse in history and we owe China every red cent we make for the next 20 years or more. Does Dick Chains need to be impeached because his daughter is queer? I don't think so because it is not him making those decisions and it is not illegal to be queer. Dude you won't win the debate on you being only morally right, just Republicans morally right and all independents and Democrats are morally wrong. I promise you, it is many homosexuals in both parties. So see where you are going, you will get yourself backed up in a corner like Larry Craig and can't wiggle out. Bubba was wrong, Craig was wrong, Foley and Vitter was wrong, Jessee Jackson has had sexual wrongs and i know it is many more on both sides. Let's be honest and not say one party does all right and the other two parties does all wrong. Republicans are human beings also and they are not perfect as all man sins and is not perfect. That means Democrats, Independents and Republicans.

It is plenty wrong in both parties.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

Exactly. Both parties have leaders that get into sex scnadals, because both parties are made up of human beings and are elected by human beings. People screw up, but the republicans, seem to want the public to believe that only democrats screw up, not republicans. So when a republican sex scandal hits the news, it invalidates the whole party's message. That's why they have to resign. The democrat involved in a sex scandal is immoral, but the republican involved in one is immoral and a fraud too! THis is why the two parties react to them differently. Because the public thinks about them differently and the consequences of a sex scandal thus have different implications depending on which party the politican is from.

Sounds to me like you've sort of got it wrong. It appears that the republicans hold their politicians to account for things that they do not feel is morally correct. They have to resign because of what you agreed to, that the parties are a reflection of their electorate.

It's not obvious at all that the deomcratic party doesn't think certain things its politicians have done are immoral, including what Bubba did. Thinking what a politician has done is immoral does not mean you think he should be impeached or removed. Both parties keep their man in office after a scandal if it is politiclly feasible. It happens that it is much more often politically feasible for the democrats than for the republicans, because the democrats don't run on a platform of moral superiority.

Why not? Why would you want your leader to be someone you couldn't trust your daughter to work under for example? I'm not seeing republicans fighting to keep these guys in office, in fact I'm seeing the opposite, they are pushing them out.

[Janett_Reno]

I feel all parties are trying to watch their p and q's. Atleast they should. How many juicy stories do you hear on Madonna, Brittney, Paris Hilton, politicians, rock stars, sports figures, and the list goes on and on. The public eats this stuff up. It is like they have fallen from grace and let's read about what all the kinky little hang ups they have.

This stuff has probably gone on for years but now the media jumps on these things like a cat on a hot tin roof. You know they want dirt on any of these people running for pres on both sides. It sells. They could make a mint. When it is he says, she says, then it is room for alot of doubt. Finally Bubba admitted his wrong but it took him way to long and also it was wrong saying he did not have sexual relationship with her. Oral sex in my book, is sex. Alot of these politicians will say ok i am guilty, now let's make it go away. I am guilty but i am not gay. I am sorry and i am guilty but i did not have sex(Vitter).

See, this is all Bubba pleas. You hear it time after time. Ok i am sorry, i am guilty but we did not have sex. Ok, then what are you guilty of? Oh, i am sorry i have to go now and i might resign if you ask me that one more time. David Vitter and Larry Craig are two of the main ones that hammered Bill Clinton and asked him over and over again to resign. Both Vitter and Larry Craig was on campaign trails for two of the Republicans running now. They are not anymore.

These people need to walk the walk and talk the talk on both sides are come out like a Barney Frank and say i am gay, vote for me or not. The closet homo's seem to either get off on being in public patrolling for sex and this is double dangerous because they are a public figure. Maybe the wife doesn't know and they need to roam around and find them a man, who knows. These stories probably won't stop for both parties because the media, news people, the public eats it up and are looking for it. That is enough for them to know, that hey, we need to be careful. I think the American people are a forgiving people. I also feel if you admit your wrong and say i am sorry, the American people will have more respect for you and your life will be back more to normal. If Bubba kept on and on saying i did not have sex with her, he would still be railed with hey Bill did you have sex with her. Is it fair politicians have to walk a fine line? I feel they should because the people elect them and have faith they are good people and trying to do right for us. On the other hand, i also know they are just human beings and they can do bad just like anyone else. Would the news and public picked up on Craig near as much if it was a hetrosexual encounter in a public bathroom? Probably not, that is to normal.

Legitimate Journalism or Witch Hunt?
Two prominent gay journalists discuss Sen. Larry Craig’s arrest and what it has to say about the outing of public officials.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20520530...wsweek/page/0/

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

You won't catch me arguing that democratic politicians have more integrity than republicans. I'm just saying they don't have any more. And the fact that they pretend to is going to catch up with them.

I guess you can argue that way, but you are defined by your actions are you not? If your party feels these transgressions are not morally corrupt then okay, why debate it? However the republican party obviously does think they are corrupt.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Being the gate keepers you need to run a pretty tight ship.

Okay..fine with me. However the gatekeeper idea is from the left and probably only because the left doesn't have much of a moral compass (at least not publicly).

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

This stuff has probably gone on for years but now the media jumps on these things like a cat on a hot tin roof. You know they want dirt on any of these people running for pres on both sides. It sells. They could make a mint. When it is he says, she says, then it is room for alot of doubt. Finally Bubba admitted his wrong but it took him way to long and also it was wrong saying he did not have sexual relationship with her. Oral sex in my book, is sex. Alot of these politicians will say ok i am guilty, now let's make it go away. I am guilty but i am not gay. I am sorry and i am guilty but i did not have sex(Vitter).

See, this is all Bubba pleas. You hear it time after time. Ok i am sorry, i am guilty but we did not have sex. Ok, then what are you guilty of? Oh, i am sorry i have to go now and i might resign if you ask me that one more time. David Vitter and Larry Craig are two of the main ones that hammered Bill Clinton and asked him over and over again to resign. Both Vitter and Larry Craig was on campaign trails for two of the Republicans running now. They are not anymore.

Well Craig resigned, did he not? For much less of a transgression than sticking cigars up your interns privates. Lying to a grand jury, pointing that holier-than-thou finger at everyone and telling us how he didn't have sex with that woman.

I haven't followed much about vitter's deal. What about the guy found to be taking bribes? Not a peep? Is that a resignable offense?

[DevinFuture]

However the republican party obviously does think they are corrupt.

Sure the republican party thinks they're corrupt. Just as the democrats do of democrats in scandals. This has nothing to do with why politicians step down. If all the corrupt politicians suddenly stepped down, there would hardly any left.

The repulican party wants its politicians who've gotten caught to step down because it is the correct thing to do politically. It has nothing to do with ethics or morality except as perceived by the public. To some degree they can distance themselves from people like Craig by having them resign. That way they can keep up the charade of their integrity a little longer. If they did not ask people in Craig's shoes to step down, they would stand to lose seats in Congress as a result of it.

It is not in the nature of politicians to step down because it's the right thing to do.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

These people need to walk the walk and talk the talk on both sides are come out like a Barney Frank and say i am gay, vote for me or not.

Think so? Is it really anyones business about the whole deal? Should we also out the S&M folks, those that like other deviant acts as well? Should the "walk the walk and talk the talk". Sounds pretty damn "in the bedroom" to me.

I think the American people are a forgiving people. I also feel if you admit your wrong and say i am sorry, the American people will have more respect for you and your life will be back more to normal.

Forgiving maybe, but if they think he needs to be fired then tough, he's their employee.

If Bubba kept on and on saying i did not have sex with her,he would still be railed with hey Bill did you have sex with her.

For good reason as well, since he lied his ass off until proven otherwise.

Is it fair politicians have to walk a fine line? I feel they should because the people elect them and have faith they are good people and trying to do right for us. On the other hand, i also know they are just human beings and they can do bad just like anyone else. Would the news and public picked up on Craig near as much if it was a hetrosexual encounter in a public bathroom? Probably not, that is to normal.

Don't know, don't really care one way or the other to be honest. Guy shouldn't be looking for sex in the washroom if he wants to be a senator. Sorry...I would probably feel the same way about the CEO of my company. Deviant behaviour isn't something that I really want in my employees.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

Sure the republican party thinks they're corrupt. Just as the democrats do of democrats in scandals. This has nothing to do with why politicians step down. If all the corrupt politicians suddenly stepped down, there would hardly any left.

Pure cynical speculation.

The repulican party wants its politicians who've gotten caught to step down because it is the correct thing to do politically. It has nothing to do with ethics or morality except as perceived by the public. To some degree they can distance themselves from people like Craig by having them resign. That way they can keep up the charade of their integrity a little longer. If they did not ask people in Craig's shoes to step down, they would stand to lose seats in Congress as a result of it.

It is not in the nature of politicians to step down because it's the right thing to do.

Since when do you speak for the republican party and it's members? This is pure speculation on your part.

Sorry charlie you are off-base there imo. As we've both agreed, the party reflects it's constituents. I would expect that some polling was done to see what his constituents thought and that helped with his decision.

[DevinFuture]

I said

The repulican party wants its politicians who've gotten caught to step down because it is the correct thing to do politically. It has nothing to do with ethics or morality except as perceived by the public.

You said

I would expect that some polling was done to see what his constituents thought and that helped with his decision

We're describing exactly the same thing.

[FishForLunch]

Once you guys figure found that only shameless, self centered, hypocrites get involved in politics, you will realize that their behavior is not surprising after all. Remember never trust a politician.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by FishForLunch

Once you guys figure found that only shameless, self centered, hypocrites get involved in politics, you will realize that their behavior is not surprising after all. Remember never trust a politician.

Or an internet poster.