Is it just me?

[u2sarajevo]

Or does this al-qaida dude sound like a member of democraticunderground?

[big_pth]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Or does this al-qaida dude sound like a member of democraticunderground?

It is just you.

Why do you think that Americans are terrorists if they don't agree with you? I am a progressive minded liberal leaning democrat voting person. I disagree with the way this "War on Terror" is being handled. I think things should have stayed focused on the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan. I think Sadam and Iraq could have waited until we sent Bin Laden straight to hell along with all of his fanatic followers. My father served in Vietnam and is suffering for it healthwise now that he is older, so I respect and admire the troops for what they do, even if I would rather them be hunting the real 9/11 plotters. I question the way things are being handled because that is my duty as an American. So, does that make me a terrorist?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Or does this al-qaida dude sound like a member of democraticunderground?

It's not you...John Howard is right.

[big_pth]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's not you...John Howard is right.

Of course he is right. That is the reason we should have concentrated all of our forces on Afghanistan and hunted down and either captured or killed Bin Laden. Because we are split between two conflicts, because we didn't go in with any other plan besides taking out Saddam, because we left all of those ammo dumps laying around unguarded, and because the planners of Iraq basically screwed up almost every aspect of the war besides ousting Saddam, he is right.
Right now, I don't know if Iraq can be won. This stopped being a conventional war a long time ago. How do you beat an enemy that hides among civilians you swore to not attack? You can't as long as those civilians keep letting them hide. There are ways to win, but we as a people and a country don't have the stomach for it. We should not have ever put ourselves in this position.

[capitalcity]

Don't let the beard fool you - that's a Kos Kid.

[capitalcity]

Don't let the beard fool you - that's a Kos Kid.

[WurzburgBorn]

Originally Posted by big_pth

It is just you.

Why do you think that Americans are terrorists if they don't agree with you? I am a progressive minded liberal leaning democrat voting person. I disagree with the way this "War on Terror" is being handled. I think things should have stayed focused on the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan. I think Sadam and Iraq could have waited until we sent Bin Laden straight to hell along with all of his fanatic followers. My father served in Vietnam and is suffering for it healthwise now that he is older, so I respect and admire the troops for what they do, even if I would rather them be hunting the real 9/11 plotters. I question the way things are being handled because that is my duty as an American. So, does that make me a terrorist?

Didn't you get the memo?
Republicans are understandably insecure about the fact that their man has been leading our country off a cliff since 2000, so now they've decided that criticism of their party or the president or our government's actions are a form of terrorism.

Remember the good ol' days when a preemptive strike meant striking before they strike you? As opposed to striking first because maybe one day not too far in the future they might have the capability to build weapons that they could one day use to strike.

Right now, I don't know if Iraq can be won.

The Iraq war IS being won. The U.S. is accomplishing everything our government knew could be accomplished when we started this: 1. We have removed Saddam from power, 2) we have killed a lot of civilians, 3) we have increased the threat of terrorism to our country.

[dude1394]

So the US hasn't had a terrorist attack since 9/11 whereas just about all of the other western allies have. So can you show me how our actions have increased the threat of terrorism to our country?

[WurzburgBorn]

No one can prove that kind of claim to anyone's satisfaction. And lack of a terrorist attack since then is not even relevant. But the change in public opinion internationally of the United States since we began the war on Iraq, particularly in Iraq's part of the world, is proof enough for anyone not blinded by thoughtless patriotism.

Edit: Before the war on Iraq, anti-U.S. terrorism was a fairly radical idea. Now, the people of almost every nation see the United States as by far the biggest threat to world security. And unfortunately, I can't say that I blame them.

[WurzburgBorn]

.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Or does this al-qaida dude sound like a member of democraticunderground?

Al-Qaida's No. 2 said President Bush was an alcoholic and a lying gambler who wagered on Iraq and lost, according to a new audiotape released Tuesday.

bush is an alcoholic and a liar, and iraq is a lost cause....

yeah, that's going way out on a limb.

what next, is the guy gonna say that democrats are a bunch of spineless wusses?

The people chose you due to your opposition to Bush's policy in Iraq, but it appears that you are marching with him to the same abyss," al- Zawahri said of the Democrats according to the transcript.

well....

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by WurzburgBorn

No one can prove that kind of claim to anyone's satisfaction. And lack of a terrorist attack since then is not even relevant. But the change in public opinion internationally of the United States since we began the war on Iraq, particularly in Iraq's part of the world, is proof enough for anyone not blinded by thoughtless patriotism.

But you've stated it as fact. If so why haven't we been attacked? Since we are more susceptible to terrorists activities, why hasn't it happened. Whereas it HAS happened in britain, spain, etc.

I dont' recall any less of "the great satan", "down with america" than I have in prior years whenever some issue causes the europeans to have to stand up to tyranny. If you are saying that our european "allies" are upset with us, okay, but they've been upset before, when we bankrupted the USSR for example. Same unwashed knuckleheads protesting against standing up to the USSR. They just aren't willing to stand up against this threat......but they will have too as it's in their backyard, they just don't know it yet.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Al-Qaida's No. 2 said President Bush was an alcoholic and a lying gambler who wagered on Iraq and lost, according to a new audiotape released Tuesday.

bush is an alcoholic and a liar, and iraq is a lost cause....

yeah, that's going way out on a limb.

what next, is the guy gonna say that democrats are a bunch of spineless wusses?

The people chose you due to your opposition to Bush's policy in Iraq, but it appears that you are marching with him to the same abyss," al- Zawahri said of the Democrats according to the transcript.

well....

Sure shounds like the democrats.

[mcsluggo]

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...


...to some extent, by driving smaller cars and turning down our thermostats. THe price of oil dropping to $13 bankrupted the Soviet Union (the #2 oil producer in the world). THis one is EASY to read.


perhaps we'll bankrupt al-quada (at least their backers) with the same strategy someday?

[mcsluggo]

.

[mcsluggo]

.

[mcsluggo]

.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...


...to some extent, by driving smaller cars and turning down our thermostats. THe price of oil dropping to $13 bankrupted the Soviet Union (the #2 oil producer in the world). THis one is EASY to read.


perhaps we'll bankrupt al-quada (at least their backers) with the same strategy someday?

Are you daft? Go read what Gorbachev had to say about the breakup of the USSR. Price of oil my ass.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...

we didn't bankrupt the USSR, communism bankrupted the USSR.

bankrupting al-qaeda isn't a viable tactic for defeating al-qaeda....al=aqaeda's strategy revolves around the question "how do we defeat enemies who outnumber us, have vastly superior armies, and have massive economic advantages over us?" They're not remotely dependent upon superior economic production, hence lack of productive ability (via bankruptcy) wouldn't hinder them in any way.

[mcsluggo]

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...


...to some extent, by driving smaller cars and turning down our thermostats. THe price of oil dropping to $13 bankrupted the Soviet Union (the #2 oil producer in the world). THis one is EASY to read.


perhaps we'll bankrupt al-quada (at least their backers) with the same strategy someday?

[mcsluggo]

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...


...to some extent, by driving smaller cars and turning down our thermostats. THe price of oil dropping to $13 bankrupted the Soviet Union (the #2 oil producer in the world). THis one is EASY to read.


perhaps we'll bankrupt al-quada (at least their backers) with the same strategy someday?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

yes, we bankrupted the USSR...


...to some extent, by driving smaller cars and turning down our thermostats. THe price of oil dropping to $13 bankrupted the Soviet Union (the #2 oil producer in the world). THis one is EASY to read.


perhaps we'll bankrupt al-quada (at least their backers) with the same strategy someday?

Well you are daft then. We didn't bankrupt Saudia Arabia? maybe it was because they weren't trying to put short-range nukes in europe, maybe they weren't trying to keep up with our military build-up.

Just because oil dropped in price didn't require the USSR to continue trying to compete with us....and THAT strategy was ALSO protested by the europeans just as must as iraq is now. In fact it seems only by the US becoming a democratic party led country can we keep the europeans blissfully, ignorantly happy.

You dems have a hard enough time keeping the facts straight for the last 5 years, let alone the last 20+. History will write that Renaldous Maximus defeated the Soviet Union. One of the ways that the did that was putting perhsing missiles in europe, all the while that the same europeans (probably the EXACT same europeans) protested it.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Are you daft? Go read what Gorbachev had to say about the breakup of the USSR. Price of oil my ass.

OK, give me your read on this then. What happened?

I know that conservatives in general buy the George Will et al hypothesis that US talking tough and raisinfg US military spending (and the SDI in specific) led the Soviets to attempt to follow suit ... and they couldn't afford it... and the empire collapsed. Its a nice neat story, AND it has the added bonus of the fact that it contributes to the overall rosey glow surrounding the Reagan legacy... but then there are silly things like actual data.

we CLEARLY see that the Soviets were terribly hit by a budget crunch brought about by their single largest revenue gainer (and economic influence gainer), oil, (which was largely their ONLY foreign exchange earner, other than military weapons) losing 70% (ish, I have no idea exactly how much it declined) of its value. but on the other hand, from what I've read military spending just sort of chugged along largely at its usual gait. (the little bit of data I have ever seen to support the Will et al hypothesis says that military spending as a percentage of government revenue went up-- the ratio went up because the denominator fell, not because the numerator rose)

YES, the overall, underlying, case of why they collapsed was a stupid system: state-planning/communism is going to fail in the long run. The price of oil is what explains the TIMING of the fall. By all accounts the soviet union was on the brink of financial collapse in the early 1970s, when it was given an unexpected (and temporary) lease on life by the first OPEC oil shock, which shot up the value of its one export commodity. THe second OPEC oil shock (78-79) gave it another boost in the arm... and then the pric of oil began its long slow decline... and the soviet union lost its temporary lease on life, and petered out.

[MavsX]

i hate these threads...nothing but argue

[MavsX]

i hate these threads...nothing but argue