Retooled roster pushes Howard to Mavs' bench - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 12:55 AM

Man do we need for the season to start! We have nothing to do, Mav's related of course, but repeat the same arguments ad infinitum.

Who should start at the 2/3?
Fin stinks! No he's great!
Nellie stinks! No he's great!
Mav's can't play D! They will this year!
We will miss Nash! JT and Devin are going to make us say Nash who!
Mbenga looks like a player! Nellie said Damp is wonderful which we all know really means that he sucks!

SEASON START....SEASON START.....SEASON START

dirno2000 · 10-13-2004, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Man do we need for the season to start! We have nothing to do, Mav's related of course, but repeat the same arguments ad infinitum.

Who should start at the 2/3?
Fin stinks! No he's great!
Nellie stinks! No he's great!
Mav's can't play D! They will this year!
We will miss Nash! JT and Devin are going to make us say Nash who!
Mbenga looks like a player! Nellie said Damp is wonderful which we all know really means that he sucks!

Don't forget:

Bradley Sucks! No he doesn't, he has a good plus/minus!

Nov. 2nd can't come soon enough.

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:09 AM

I'm going to measure my plus/minus this season.

Point Differential when I watch - Point Differential when I don't watch

sike · 10-13-2004, 01:37 AM

I'm going to measure how far it is from my tv to my fridge....and how many steps it takes....

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2004, 01:38 AM

"but it's a far more balanced team (offense vs. defense) than what we fielded to start the game much of the time last year. "

That doesn't really say much though. I do agree we are alot better than last season but anything is better than what we had last season.

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:39 AM

Just teach your dog to get your beer for you. Why waist that energy you're going to need for yelling at the refs...or Nellie.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2004, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
FFM:The Mavs best defensive lineup would be to play both Quis and Howard and have Fin on the bench, but the Mavs are going to need Fin's shooting this year, so he's got to start. Your starting lineup should be your best overall lineup, not just your best defensive lineup. When choosing between Howard and Quis you need to choose the best overall player, and that's Daniels. Daniels is the take it the hole shooting gaurd that the Mavs have been missing. Howard is energy off the bench ala Najera.

I agree the Mavs should start the game with their best overall lineup which is why I say start Josh over Daniels. When did Daniels become a take it to the hole guard? Those big games last season contained some inside buckets and some fast break points but I don't recall him being primarily a take it to the rack guy.

sike · 10-13-2004, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: fifteenth man
Just teach your dog to get your beer for you. Why waist that energy you're going to need for yelling at the refs...or Nellie.

thanks for reminding me that I have no dog! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

fifteenth man · 10-13-2004, 01:45 AM

Quis game is a lot like Sam Cassel's or Nick the quick's... or like Antawn Jamison if he was a guard. He's not a take it to the rack guy... but he is a take it to the middle of the lane and float a shot over everyone guy...and he is very clever in the lane...he's able to get inside and sneak the ball up off the backboard while the shot blockers are trying to figure out what he's doing.

So he's a good midrange guy who can get his shot off near the basket too. If he develops a jumper to go with it he'll have a pretty versitile offensive game.

FreshJive · 10-13-2004, 06:27 AM

For me a gaurd who drives and scores down low is a take it to the hole guy. He doesn't necesarily have to get a layup or dunk, although he is certainly capable of it. I should have said: He has the dribble to get into the lane and the ability to score with regularity when he gets there without relying on a fadeaway.

MavsFanFinley · 10-13-2004, 10:49 AM

Mavericks Notes
Howard's hard work not going unnoticed

By Dwain Price
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

DALLAS - Earlier this summer, Josh Howard questioned whether he was going to be the odd-man out of the Mavericks' four-man shooting guard/small forward rotation.

After the Mavs acquired Jerry Stackhouse, Howard knew that meant added competition for minutes that already included Michael Finley and Marquis Daniels. As the Mavs open preseason play at 7 tonight in New Orleans, Howard doesn't have to worry anymore.

"My best player during training camp has been Josh Howard," coach Don Nelson said. "Nobody seems to talk much about him, but he's been doing so well for so long ... I think it's time to give him some credit."

With Daniels out of tonight's game with a sprained right ankle, Howard will start at small forward against the Hornets.

"For those worried about Josh Howard not playing, you can forget that," Nelson said. "He's going to play.

"He's a good player, and he's taken a step in the right direction from this summer until now. I'm really pleased with his performance in this training camp, and he's got the coach's eye."

Howard, 6-7, said he was pleased with Nelson's assessment of his training camp.

"Tell him, 'Thank you,' " Howard said.

Mavs owner Mark Cuban said Howard has the same game instincts as Utah forward Andrei Kirilenko, who played in last season's All-Star Game in only his third season.

"Josh reminds me more and more of Kirilenko, how he plays," Cuban said. "He's a super smart defender, and he has the ability to impact the game defensively.

"He's just got to know what he can and can't do offensively. We've got guys who can defend, but Josh is a guy who can have an impact on a game defensively. You don't find a lot of those guys."

Nelson wants Howard to assume the "dirty work" role Eduardo Najera played the past four seasons. Howard came to camp determined to build off what he accomplished last year. The sore left knee that has limited Daniels' mobility in training camp has given Howard much more court time.

"I just think I'm more focused this year," Howard said.

Chemistry test

Dirk Nowitzki, the Mavs' go-to guy, can't wait for tonight's game against the Hornets so he can better gauge just what type of team management built in the off-season.

With nine new faces, the Mavs have been predicted by some to finish as high as fourth in the Western Conference, and by others to miss the playoffs altogether.

"We've got so many new guys that [establishing chemistry] is going to be very difficult," Nowitzki said. "We've all got to find a rhythm somehow.

"Every single day is very important for us in preseason. Hopefully, by November, we're going to be a very sharp team."

mary · 10-13-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

With Daniels out of tonight's game with a sprained right ankle, Howard will start at small forward against the Hornets

Quote:

The sore left knee that has limited Daniels' mobility in training camp has given Howard much more court time.

Does Daniels have 2 injuries?

sike · 10-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

"We've got so many new guys that [establishing chemistry] is going to be very difficult," Nowitzki said. "We've all got to find a rhythm somehow.

there he goes spouting the "R" word again...I think its his mantra.

Quote:

"My best player during training camp has been Josh Howard," coach Don Nelson said. "Nobody seems to talk much about him, but he's been doing so well for so long ... I think it's time to give him some credit."
With Daniels out of tonight's game with a sprained right ankle, Howard will start at small forward against the Hornets.
"For those worried about Josh Howard not playing, you can forget that," Nelson said. "He's going to play.
"He's a good player, and he's taken a step in the right direction from this summer until now. I'm really pleased with his performance in this training camp, and he's got the coach's eye."

very good to hear this come from Nellie.

Mavs Maniac · 10-13-2004, 11:51 AM

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there he goes spouting the "R" word again...I think its his mantra.

Too funny sike! But what do you expect when Holger has him playing the saxaphone for basketball training?

And I totally agree that it's good to hear that Josh is getting his props from the person who matters most, Nellie!

Mavs Maniac · 10-13-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Fin shot a higher percentage from three point land and overall last year than he did year prior. You're certainly not the only one who thinks that, but the stats suggest that you and your nay-saying cohorts are very wrong.

Hey grndmstr_c, who said Finley was up to his speed two years ago either? Don't get me wrong, I'm a Finley fan, but surely you remember the days when Finley was widely considered the second best 2 guard in the NBA behind only Jordan. All I'm saying is he's not the same player he used to be. Sure that has everything to do with age, but that arguement is now moot because we have younger guys who attack the rack with the reckless abandon that made Finley so dangerous! When he had his ironman streak, he was always in rhythm, but since then, he's missed parts of every season. And you can not argue that it does take him a while to get back into that rhythm.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

"My best player during training camp has been Josh Howard," coach Don Nelson said. "Nobody seems to talk much about him, but he's been doing so well for so long ... I think it's time to give him some credit."

Hmmmm. He's been your best player in camp however he will have trouble finding minutes this year? That doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

grndmstr_c · 10-13-2004, 12:46 PM

Mavs Maniac, you said you thought Fin's skills were declining rapidly. My point in showing that his stats had actually gone up from two years ago to last year was that the evidence suggests his skills aren't in rapid decline. If you simply want to say that he's not the player he was 4 years ago I won't argue with you, but that's not what you said.

SeriousSummer · 10-13-2004, 01:04 PM

Quote:

I'm going to measure my plus/minus this season.

Point Differential when I watch - Point Differential when I don't watch

There are games when you don't watch?

mary · 10-13-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: SeriousSummer

Quote:

I'm going to measure my plus/minus this season.

Point Differential when I watch - Point Differential when I don't watch

There are games when you don't watch?

At one point last year I stopped watching games live. They were going through a slump and one day I just hit record on my VCR and went for a walk while the game was on. Later on, I watched the tape and they won. So for a little while, I would intentionally miss games and just record them.

I'm willing to go through just about any superstitious routine.

Mavs Maniac · 10-13-2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Mavs Maniac, you said you thought Fin's skills were declining rapidly. My point in showing that his stats had actually gone up from two years ago to last year was that the evidence suggests his skills aren't in rapid decline. If you simply want to say that he's not the player he was 4 years ago I won't argue with you, but that's not what you said.

Fair enough!! And you're right, I didn't state clearly what I have observed over a period of time. Actually, I'm glad to see that his stats were better last year than two years ago. I guess it would be better to say, that IMO Finley is not nearly as dangerous, or feared for that matter, as a strictly spot up jump shooter, as he was when he was a slasher that loved to dunk over ANYBODY!!!

FilthyFinMavs · 10-13-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Mavs Maniac

Quote:

Mavs Maniac, you said you thought Fin's skills were declining rapidly. My point in showing that his stats had actually gone up from two years ago to last year was that the evidence suggests his skills aren't in rapid decline. If you simply want to say that he's not the player he was 4 years ago I won't argue with you, but that's not what you said.

Fair enough!! And you're right, I didn't state clearly what I have observed over a period of time. Actually, I'm glad to see that his stats were better last year than two years ago. I guess it would be better to say, that IMO Finley is not nearly as dangerous, or feared for that matter, as a strictly spot up jump shooter, as he was when he was a slasher that loved to dunk over ANYBODY!!!

Like his dunk over Qyntel Woods LAST season?

Scoobay · 10-13-2004, 06:02 PM

Hey grndmstr_c, who said Finley was up to his speed two years ago either? Don't get me wrong, I'm a Finley fan, but surely you remember the days when Finley was widely considered the second best 2 guard in the NBA behind only Jordan.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

whoa... just wondering when these days were... been following mavs for a while but don't really remember this one. I'm sure some would have put him amongst the top 5 or so but widely considered 2nd best? that sounds like clyde drexler from 80's-early 90's. more recently kobe but i don't know if/when there was a time fin was clearly 2nd best.

rakesh.s · 10-13-2004, 06:44 PM

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Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

"My best player during training camp has been Josh Howard," coach Don Nelson said. "Nobody seems to talk much about him, but he's been doing so well for so long ... I think it's time to give him some credit."

Hmmmm. He's been your best player in camp however he will have trouble finding minutes this year? That doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

i am hoping that he gets the minutes over a guy like finley but this could be a case where if Josh has one and just one bad game, nelson will use that as the excuse to bench him for good

Mavs Maniac · 10-13-2004, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Like his dunk over Qyntel Woods LAST season?

Sure he still does it, once or twice a season FFM, but surely you remember when that happened almost nightly. What no one seems to be understanding, is that I am a Finley fan. But as a realist, I know his best days are behind him. The same can not be said of Howard or Daniels.

Mavs Maniac · 10-13-2004, 07:16 PM

Quote:

whoa... just wondering when these days were... been following mavs for a while but don't really remember this one. I'm sure some would have put him amongst the top 5 or so but widely considered 2nd best? that sounds like clyde drexler from 80's-early 90's. more recently kobe but i don't know if/when there was a time fin was clearly 2nd best.

You're not trying to say that it went directly from Clyde the Glide (one of my all time favorites!! I even have a basketball signed by Glide and the Dream when they were still with Phi Slamma Jamma Volume 1, U oh H) to Kobe, are you. You do realize that Kobe didn't even average 20+ points until the '99-'00 season. Yes, believe it or not there were a couple of years towards the end of the 90's that Fin-Dog was considered right up there with the best of em. Take '97-'98 when Finley average 21.5ppg, 5.3rpg, and 4.9apg. I'd put those numbers up with anyone NOT named Michael Jordon!

SaintofKillers · 04-12-2006, 08:02 AM

I know it's an old thread but I re-wrote Josh Howard's lame Wikipedia entry earlier completely from scratch and added emphasis to this part specifically. I can't believe he almost turned into a mop-up player. That was crazy