Now For Something Completely Different

[Day1MavsFan]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Well, historically, Marion didn't even guard Dirk until last season when Nash went to Phoenix and the Suns went with Marion at PF, so I'm not sure what history you're referring to. He played twice as many games against Marion in the playoffs (6) as he had during the regular season (3). That's one instance where history didn't give you much of a frame of reference.

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember him guarding Dirk in prior years. Who was guarding him then? They only had McDyess for half a season, I think. Bo Outlaw? He probably didn't play more than 20 minutes. There wasn't anybody else I can think of.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Hang on just a second. Dirk stops himself? You do realize that he's averaging a career-high 26.6 ppg, right?

Anyway, you reference Parker, Brand, Kaman, and KG as having higher FG% averages than Dirk. A better indicator of shooting efficiency is true shooting percentage (TS%). Dirk's TS% is .589. Garnett also has a TS% of .589, but the others all rank lower than Dirk (Parker - .580, Brand - .580, Kaman - .567). The point is, Dirk is a very efficient scorer -- more efficient or as efficient as all of those guys you named.

It's not all about PPG. Efficiency wins championships, which I realize you are referencing here by bringing up TS%. Except, that you are quoting this regular season. What was Dirk's TS% in last year's playoffs? After all, this whole discussion is about getting it done in the playoffs. So, that's what you should have quoted.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

The progression of his post game toward the rim has been a gradual one. I expect that as he gets older you'll see him continue to get closer and closer to the rim. Right now, though, I don't see anything wrong with the results he's achieving. The man is a model of efficiency -- a scoring machine.

Boy, is that an understatement! Gradual, as in glacial. This is his eighth season. So, he'll finally be an accomplished post player when he's retired?
Again, you say "right now". What does that mean? This regular season, I suppose. Well, again, that's not germain to this discussion. I would be the first to admit that he's having a great year. The question is, is he the type of superstar that can carry a team to a championship? That's what this discussion is about.
We all know that the Mavs of of recent years were an unbelievably explosive offensive team. But were they the kind that could win the whole thing? That's a different question and most people would say, no. With Dirk, the question is similar. Is he built for the playoffs? Can he consistently score inside when the jumpshot isn't falling? When defenses smother you, as they do in the post-season, can he score efficiently then? You can't answer that by quoting regular season stats.
I'm not saying that Dirk isn't a very good, perhaps great player. But is he the type of player that can carry the team on his back to the promised land? I don't think anyone can answer that.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

What Avery was talking about is abusing smaller players. Dirk IS doing that. Sure, he can get better at it, but he's already doing it now. I know you saw what he did to Artest and Bowen this past week.

Dirk is just STARTING to do that. Yes, that's what Avery is talking about. And right now, he says Dirk is a 6.5. So, again, the coach agrees with me. He aint quite there yet.
Yes, I saw what he did. I also saw what he did the prior S.A. game, and what he did in last year's playoffs, etc. He's getting better, but he hasn't arrived by any means.

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

You do realize that Duncan was waiting at the rim, right?

Yes, I realize that. I still prefer him to take it to Duncan and challenge him or pass it to the man he's left unguarded, at least a fair percent of the time, instead of off-balance or fadaway jumpers at the elbow. If he stops in the lane and pulls up sometimes, without fading, that's okay too.

The bottom line is that I'm not sure that we can win it all when our superstar doesn't ever play with his back to the basket or get many easy baskets for himself or teamates. I would think that you would agree that to do so would go against the grain, with perhaps the exception of the Pistons two years ago. We've seen what happens when the Mavs get deep in the playoffs against good defensive teams. In the past, the inability to get inside has hurt them, and Dirk's been a big part of that. Things are changing, I agree. But have they enough to win it this year? I'm not sure this regular season has shown me enough to believe it can happen. I'd like to see Dirk learn to play well in the post. So would Avery. He's been talking about it since he got the job. If what Dirk does now is enough, then why would Avery say these things?

[orangedays]

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

It's not all about PPG. Efficiency wins championships, which I realize you are referencing here by bringing up TS%. Except, that you are quoting this regular season. What was Dirk's TS% in last year's playoffs? After all, this whole discussion is about getting it done in the playoffs. So, that's what you should have quoted.

In the Suns series

eFG% = 47.7%
TS% = 53.6%

In the 2004-05 playoffs

eFG% = 42.2%
TS% = 50.5%

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember him guarding Dirk in prior years. Who was guarding him then? They only had McDyess for half a season, I think. Bo Outlaw? He probably didn't play more than 20 minutes. There wasn't anybody else I can think of.



It's not all about PPG. Efficiency wins championships, which I realize you are referencing here by bringing up TS%. Except, that you are quoting this regular season. What was Dirk's TS% in last year's playoffs? After all, this whole discussion is about getting it done in the playoffs. So, that's what you should have quoted.




Boy, is that an understatement! Gradual, as in glacial. This is his eighth season. So, he'll finally be an accomplished post player when he's retired?
Again, you say "right now". What does that mean? This regular season, I suppose. Well, again, that's not germain to this discussion. I would be the first to admit that he's having a great year. The question is, is he the type of superstar that can carry a team to a championship? That's what this discussion is about.
We all know that the Mavs of of recent years were an unbelievably explosive offensive team. But were they the kind that could win the whole thing? That's a different question and most people would say, no. With Dirk, the question is similar. Is he built for the playoffs? Can he consistently score inside when the jumpshot isn't falling? When defenses smother you, as they do in the post-season, can he score efficiently then? You can't answer that by quoting regular season stats.
I'm not saying that Dirk isn't a very good, perhaps great player. But is he the type of player that can carry the team on his back to the promised land? I don't think anyone can answer that.




Dirk is just STARTING to do that. Yes, that's what Avery is talking about. And right now, he says Dirk is a 6.5. So, again, the coach agrees with me. He aint quite there yet.
Yes, I saw what he did. I also saw what he did the prior S.A. game, and what he did in last year's playoffs, etc. He's getting better, but he hasn't arrived by any means.




Yes, I realize that. I still prefer him to take it to Duncan and challenge him or pass it to the man he's left unguarded, at least a fair percent of the time, instead of off-balance or fadaway jumpers at the elbow. If he stops in the lane and pulls up sometimes, without fading, that's okay too.

The bottom line is that I'm not sure that we can win it all when our superstar doesn't ever play with his back to the basket or get many easy baskets for himself or teamates. I would think that you would agree that to do so would go against the grain, with perhaps the exception of the Pistons two years ago. We've seen what happens when the Mavs get deep in the playoffs against good defensive teams. In the past, the inability to get inside has hurt them, and Dirk's been a big part of that. Things are changing, I agree. But have they enough to win it this year? I'm not sure this regular season has shown me enough to believe it can happen. I'd like to see Dirk learn to play well in the post. So would Avery. He's been talking about it since he got the job. If what Dirk does now is enough, then why would Avery say these things?

That was a really, really solid effort. It really was. But still, you managed to be dead wrong on just about everything.

[sixeightmkw]

too much reading for me