01-17-2013, 08:59 AM
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#1
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Mike James stunk offensively and defensively. So...
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Carlisle's logical inconsistency with some of his rotation choices does get rather frustrating, doesn't it?
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"Ok, Go Mavericks!"
-Avery Johnson
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01-16-2013, 11:53 PM
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#2
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Collison stunk defensively in the fourth, he deserved benching. We lose this game if he stays in.
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James stinks. (10 day contract)
Collison needs to play. He needs the chance to ride with Dirk in crunch time. Not to get jerked around.
Rick is a good to great coach, but I don't like the bulk of his handling of DC.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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01-16-2013, 11:32 PM
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#3
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,492
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Memphis 3 straight losses,
Portland 3 straight losses,
Houston 5 straight losses
The door is at the top of a steep hill, but still a mathematical possibility.
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01-16-2013, 11:47 PM
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#4
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Memphis 3 straight losses,
Portland 3 straight losses,
Houston 5 straight losses
The door is at the top of a steep hill, but still a mathematical possibility.
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give me more happy stats like them...thems is good 'uns.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
Last edited by sike; 01-16-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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01-17-2013, 12:29 AM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Memphis 3 straight losses,
Portland 3 straight losses,
Houston 5 straight losses
The door is at the top of a steep hill, but still a mathematical possibility.
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Portland 4 straight losses. Their bench scored today against Cleveland 7 points on 2-18 shooting.
Wolves 4 losses and tons of injuries
I call #7 and #8 is a race between Jazz, Mavs and Lakers. Rockets suck.
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01-16-2013, 11:32 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 46
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Man, if we had early season DC and Mayo with current Brand, it'd be pretty nice.
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01-16-2013, 11:38 PM
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#7
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
Posts: 18,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davblue
Man, if we had early season DC and Mayo with current Brand, it'd be pretty nice.
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Collison's averaging 14/5 with 50% FG and 50% 3FG for the month of January, and those numbers get better if you include the last week of December.
This is, pretty easily, Collison's best sustained run of the season.
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01-16-2013, 11:46 PM
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#8
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Collison's averaging 14/5 with 50% FG and 50% 3FG for the month of January, and those numbers get better if you include the last week of December.
This is, pretty easily, Collison's best sustained run of the season.
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That's also frustrating and quite alarming to me. Rick gives a guy on a 10-day contract the benefit of the doubt in crunch time while Collison, who's played really well as of late, is benched.
At some point Rick might has to ask himself if the reason he can't trust them is because he's showing them that they can't be trusted.
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01-16-2013, 11:39 PM
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#9
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Just took a brief look at the stats for tonight. In the advanced metrics Collison (10.01 PER, 0.065 WS48) ranks in front of James (0.12 PER, -0.177 WS48), which was about to be expected and with that you can throw the +/- into the garbage tbh. James is most definitely not responsible for the runs they put together, he did hurt the team when he was out there.
And: Given that he got into the game late because of his "physical presence" he stunk quite a bit on defense, allowing 21.35 PER, 0.176 WS48, 4-of-5 shotting (1 three) and 6 FTAs. 1-of-1 in the 4th, 4 FTAs.
That said, Collison allowed 3-for-3 in the 4th (1 three) and 4 FTAs (Lin went 2-of-4 from the line)
Last edited by j0Shi; 01-16-2013 at 11:42 PM.
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01-16-2013, 11:51 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j0Shi
Just took a brief look at the stats for tonight. In the advanced metrics Collison (10.01 PER, 0.065 WS48) ranks in front of James (0.12 PER, -0.177 WS48), which was about to be expected and with that you can throw the +/- into the garbage tbh. James is most definitely not responsible for the runs they put together, he did hurt the team when he was out there.
And: Given that he got into the game late because of his "physical presence" he stunk quite a bit on defense, allowing 21.35 PER, 0.176 WS48, 4-of-5 shotting (1 three) and 6 FTAs. 1-of-1 in the 4th, 4 FTAs.
That said, Collison allowed 3-for-3 in the 4th (1 three) and 4 FTAs (Lin went 2-of-4 from the line)
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Stats have Marion and Crowder as your MVPs for tonight btw. with Mayo and Dirk trailing.
Brand and Drik shot 5-of-8 in the 4th, 5-of-5 at the line. Rest of the team: 1-of-12 (Mayo & James 0-of-4 each)
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01-17-2013, 12:10 AM
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#11
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Ah and did they find allready the Ball that Kaman threw until Mexico?
Last edited by sefant77; 01-17-2013 at 12:10 AM.
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01-17-2013, 01:00 AM
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#12
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Carlisle on James: I thought his play at the end of the third quarter and in the fourth may have been the difference in the game. Collison was playing good…James gave us some experience, some physical strength and some toughness. I was really pleased. …I like him. I really do.
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01-17-2013, 01:06 AM
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#13
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
Carlisle on James: I thought his play at the end of the third quarter and in the fourth may have been the difference in the game. Collison was playing good…James gave us some experience, some physical strength and some toughness. I was really pleased. …I like him. I really do.
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What?! Rick likes veteran players in crunch time over unproven talent??? Color me shocked.
*Thanks for the quote, BG.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
Last edited by sike; 01-17-2013 at 01:06 AM.
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01-17-2013, 06:25 PM
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#14
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
What?! Rick likes veteran players in crunch time over unproven talent??? Color me shocked.
*Thanks for the quote, BG.
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Not exactly, he likes tough play in crunch time, not someone who is afraid to mix it up.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-17-2013, 01:07 AM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
I like him. I really do.
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I guess thats called a catastrophic turnover in the coaching zone.
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01-17-2013, 01:24 AM
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#16
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,586
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Overall I feel we are on the right path. I like the personality of most players on the team and the chemistry seems to be all right. What a shame that Carter can't make those outside shots anymore. Dirk looks like he's enjoying just being able to play and compete, he looks very relaxed, and thats goes a long way ensuring he's steadily improving his game. Helps a lot that he's already shooting very efficiently.
__________________
At the end of each practice, the Mavs conduct a competition and ring a bell whenever someone makes 20 of 25 3-point attempts.
“He’s always around 23 or 24,” West said. “The bell rings every day.”
Last edited by twelli; 01-17-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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01-17-2013, 07:52 AM
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#17
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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I'm ok with James being the 3rd-string PG and come in as a spark or when someone is injured. But to have him out there late (and some people even want him to start...) is just bad coaching!
The horrible award goes to Carter that night, god was he bad!
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01-17-2013, 07:55 AM
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#18
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kante
I'm ok with James being the 3rd-string PG and come in as a spark or when someone is injured. But to have him out there late (and some people even want him to start...) is just bad coaching!
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http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/pa...sharepermalink
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01-17-2013, 07:58 AM
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#19
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bee Cave, Texas
Posts: 3,239
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big performance from OJMayo 18 Pts, 6 Reb, 8 Ast, 2 Stl, 1 Blk
and Dirk's line - 19 points, 8 Reb, 1 Blk
winning while shooting 39% / being outscored in all but the first qtr.
but I'll take the win though.
Last edited by dirt_dobber; 01-17-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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01-17-2013, 08:02 AM
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#20
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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Oh, the block from Brand was amzing late!
Add Harden to the list of victims by Marion's defense.
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01-17-2013, 08:53 AM
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#21
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Mexico Mountains
Posts: 2,386
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Mike James might be ok if you could stop him from shooting. He made some nice passes to Dirk...hence the 5 assists. Our other points have yet to figure out how to get Dirk the ball.
I scares me to see coach say he likes James. If we can pick up a truly decent point guard, we make the playoffs easy. Collison does some things well but he is best in the score first mode. The lesson of JKidd is you need a PG who can run the offense, not just score. Little Nellie, the ball is in your court.
__________________
"He got dimes." Harrison Barnes on Luca Doncic during his 1st NBA training camp.
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01-17-2013, 09:20 AM
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#22
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 255
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To me, Carlisle playing James late tells me one thing. Collison is gonna be gone by the trade deadline. I could be wrong, though.
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01-17-2013, 09:29 AM
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#23
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn
To me, Carlisle playing James late tells me one thing. Collison is gonna be gone by the trade deadline. I could be wrong, though.
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To me it says that he just isn't good at substitutions. His rotations have always been bad. He's just such a great Xs and os guy that it makes up for it
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01-17-2013, 09:34 AM
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#24
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Banned
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Willard,Missouri
Posts: 143
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I am hoping this streak is a Mavs streak of getting on fire,like a 10 game win streak. I know this Mavs team is not elite but it has enough pieces on it to be a 4th or a 5th seed. Time for them to nut up.
Last edited by MaverickOutlaw; 01-17-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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01-17-2013, 03:21 PM
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#25
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-ofan
To me it says that he just isn't good at substitutions. His rotations have always been bad.
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He is known for a guy that "isn't afraid to shake things up when it's not going your way." It's widely considered a plus, but I'm not convinced. Other teams tend to struggle as well, yet Dallas plays the most (starting) lineups per game/season since last year. Dirk was injured, so that plays a part, but that doesn't explain everything.
He seems to panic too early sometimes and then also doesn't play the best alternative but just the next veteran available.
Last edited by j0Shi; 01-17-2013 at 03:23 PM.
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01-17-2013, 09:37 AM
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#26
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twenty4sevenn
To me, Carlisle playing James late tells me one thing. Collison is gonna be gone by the trade deadline. I could be wrong, though.
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So, it tells you one thing but you could be wrong?
IIIIIInteresting!
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01-17-2013, 09:30 AM
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#27
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,422
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Dirk was cold the first half .. went 2-8. He's hot the second half and goes 5-6.. How in the world does he only get 6 shots?
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01-17-2013, 09:39 AM
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#28
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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The fact that Mike James got Dirk plenty of good looks in the 4th quarter (10 points) is enough for me to support a second 10-day contract. And honestly, with all of his warts, I still trust him more than I do Roddy or Dojo.
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01-17-2013, 09:41 AM
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Willard,Missouri
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
The fact that Mike James got Dirk plenty of good looks in the 4th quarter (10 points) is enough for me to support a second 10-day contract. And honestly, with all of his warts, I still trust him more than I do Roddy or Dojo.
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Roddy how long are the Mavs gonna give him a chance? I mean he has been on club for some time and I feel like he never has got it yet.
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01-17-2013, 10:03 AM
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#30
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: behind you
Posts: 6,248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickOutlaw
Roddy how long are the Mavs gonna give him a chance? I mean he has been on club for some time and I feel like he never has got it yet.
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I've actually been a fan of what Roddy was doing recently. He looks out of control at times, but he actually does a pretty good job probing the defense and finding the right players. If only he could hit a shot...
If he was a slightly larger defender, I don't think we'd be talking about Mike James. But Roddy's defense is still suspect against larger guys, like Collison, so Mike James would make some sense off the bench. Carlisle said the only reason he went to James instead of Roddy is b/c James' ten day is about to run up and so it's "decision time".
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01-17-2013, 10:00 AM
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#31
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: behind you
Posts: 6,248
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Carlisle benched Collison in favor of James because Lin blew right by DC on back2back possessions. For what it's worth, Lin did the same thing to James, although that foul looked pretty "floppy" to me.
Here's the quote from RC: "Well, Lin just walked right in there twice in a row on Collison. We needed a stronger guy out there."
The other fun thing that was discussed post-game was that Carlisle gave Mayo a pretty good cussing out at halftime about his shot selection.
(the question asked was about Mayo's progress as an all-around player): "It'd be a bigger sign if I didn't have to scream at him at halftime.about it I thought in the first half he took some shots that weren't needed when he is becoming a playmaker and a good all-around basketball player. I'm sorry, it's beneath me to watch a guy continue to veer off from the path that is best for him and the team."
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01-17-2013, 04:01 PM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Carlisle's defends the decision to yank Collison by saying he got blown by 2 straight possessions and then Mike James comes in and immediately gets blown by twice!! and Carlisle is practically gushing about him after the game? Its just flat out weird at times.
Anyone else notice Collison throwing his hands up in frustration as he went to the bench?
I dont blame him. This is the second scrap heap vet to come in and potentially usurp his role. Carlisle obviously has "his guys" and if you aren't one of them you simply can't do anything well enough. Not saying Rick needs to goo all Zen Master and let them play through everything(god knows he loves to use his timeouts)but maybe at least tailor your coaching to the individual somewhat. Some guys need to be screamed at at halftime, some need to be built up.
Bottom line, at least some of these young guys need to be developed. For the good of the franchise. Look at San Antonio. They kept the core but were able to develop Neal, Green, Splitter, Leonard. Especially with this new CBA teams need young talent on cheap contracts to contribute. Or even just as trade assets. Not necessarily at the expense of wins, but then the two needn't be mutually exclusive.
Last edited by mac222b; 01-17-2013 at 04:04 PM.
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01-17-2013, 05:53 PM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
Carlisle's defends the decision to yank Collison by saying he got blown by 2 straight possessions and then Mike James comes in and immediately gets blown by twice!! and Carlisle is practically gushing about him after the game? Its just flat out weird at times.
Anyone else notice Collison throwing his hands up in frustration as he went to the bench?
I dont blame him. This is the second scrap heap vet to come in and potentially usurp his role. Carlisle obviously has "his guys" and if you aren't one of them you simply can't do anything well enough. Not saying Rick needs to goo all Zen Master and let them play through everything(god knows he loves to use his timeouts)but maybe at least tailor your coaching to the individual somewhat. Some guys need to be screamed at at halftime, some need to be built up.
Bottom line, at least some of these young guys need to be developed. For the good of the franchise. Look at San Antonio. They kept the core but were able to develop Neal, Green, Splitter, Leonard. Especially with this new CBA teams need young talent on cheap contracts to contribute. Or even just as trade assets. Not necessarily at the expense of wins, but then the two needn't be mutually exclusive.
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Splitter has been with the Spurs for 2-3 years now. He had a ton of experience playing overseas, yet was terrible for most of the time with the Spurs. Only in this season is he finally getting consistent.
Green and Neal they are developing. Green has been pretty good for the Spurs,esp.
Leonard was good in college, that's why the Spurs gave up Hill to get him. They knew he had potential.
Do the young guys on the Mavs have the potential to be good? Simply playing them because they're young doesn't automatically mean they'll improve. Seems like a lot of it is mental and smarts. Do DC and Roddy have the smarts?
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01-17-2013, 06:51 PM
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#34
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurred1
Splitter has been with the Spurs for 2-3 years now. He had a ton of experience playing overseas, yet was terrible for most of the time with the Spurs. Only in this season is he finally getting consistent.
Green and Neal they are developing. Green has been pretty good for the Spurs,esp.
Leonard was good in college, that's why the Spurs gave up Hill to get him. They knew he had potential.
Do the young guys on the Mavs have the potential to be good? Simply playing them because they're young doesn't automatically mean they'll improve. Seems like a lot of it is mental and smarts. Do DC and Roddy have the smarts?
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Idk how much potential the young Mavs have to be good. Id say its a case by case basis. MBT should place a higher emphasis on scouting/player development IMHO. Maybe its simply a case of losing too many guys- Barea, Bass, Chandler- with nothing much to show for it. I mean how many young talents HAS this team identified/developed over the last decade? JJB, to me, is an instructive example. He had (some would say) the almost irrational trust of RC. That trust paid off big-time(!)
Idk if DC and Roddy have the smarts. Didn't JJ have a tough time getting Dirk the ball? It drove people around here near mad at times. Didn't JJ have defensive liabilities?
I know that this is a transitional year and that not all of Crowder(who has been handled well with a somewhat defined role and regular minutes)Sarge, Cunningham, Wright, Roddy and Collison can get minutes. Im objecting to the young guys getting jerked around. Fischer comes in and starts over DC and Roddy w/out playing a minute with the team? And then leaves soon after? Collisson, who has been playing really well, gets pulled with 4minutes to go last night for that renowned defensive stopper Mike James?! It just looks a little clownish and mismanaged from the outside looking in. You can't claim that its a merit based system and not hold every player to the same standard. Just rings hollow. You don't gain the respect of your guys that way.
And i know that the Spurs have a totally different set of guys and a different situation going. I just thought that was a convenient comparison. Pop/Buford do a great job identifying guys to fit their system and then in developing them. I seriously doubt that POp is any less demanding and exacting then RC.
I think it comes down to Pop having better player management skills and a better sense of the larger picture.
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01-17-2013, 05:45 PM
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#35
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,949
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Good win last night, but the Mavs let them back into the game...a win streak through the AS break is a tall order, but would be sweet.
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01-17-2013, 06:24 PM
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#36
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Darren Collson does not know how to run the offense, especially in closing out games. And I would love someone to do a study on his offense. I bet if you exclude the one man fast breaks that he does during a game, how much offense does he generate for the team? And not every offense is created equal. Just like not every point or assists, rebound, etc. How you get them matters. And Darren Collison RARELY gets others involved in the offense in the half court. And if a PG cannot call a play, have enough patience to run the play, not commit turnovers during that play, and finally excecute the play... then he has no business being the PG. And Collison does NONE of that in the last 6 minutes of a game.
Mike James isn't great. But he runs the offense. Doesn't commit stupid turnovers and generally speaking gets the Mavs a good shot in the set. Collison is 25 years old, played 4 years of college and is in his 4th year in the league. If he can't figure out how to run the offense by now.... he is a lost cause. And Roddy is in the same boat, although Roddy has the excuse of not playing in one of the most prestigious programs in the country for 4 years and also being hurt for half his NBA time.
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01-17-2013, 06:26 PM
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#37
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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I was thinking more a long the lines of:
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01-17-2013, 06:56 PM
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#38
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Jj had defensive deficiencies but he would stick his nose in there. IMO carlisles a lot more old school than his persona implies. You have to play tough to play for Carlisle,unless you have a very specific talent. Peja/jet come to mind.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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01-17-2013, 11:21 PM
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#39
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Jj had defensive deficiencies but he would stick his nose in there. IMO carlisles a lot more old school than his persona implies. You have to play tough to play for Carlisle,unless you have a very specific talent. Peja/jet come to mind.
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Thats code, for he's stupid when it comes to rotations
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01-17-2013, 07:33 PM
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#40
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,249
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Barea took a charge against LeBron James in the Finals. Nuff said.
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