Men's Basketball - Preliminary round Group B game 9 (USA vs Greece) - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

What if you were making $20MM? It seems a little self righteous to look down on some one for doubling their salary because, in your opinion, they already have "enough".

Why do I owe them any loyalty when they're the ones ditching???

Eff 'em - I want to watch basketball where the starters aren't role-players!

(because my opinion is completely SELFISH - there's only enough players on the planet to make ONE league interesting, otherwise we get watered-down "D-league" games on the NBA level... Yay!)

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

There's another phrase for it.

(Is it time to move this thread to the political forum yet?)

Why don't you move it then, Mr. Mod?

(after all - YOU'RE the one who has reservations about which countries people other than yourself root for...)

GO GERMANY!

dirno2000 · 08-14-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why do I owe them any loyalty when they're the ones ditching???

Eff 'em - I want to watch basketball where the starters aren't role-players!

(because my opinion is completely SELFISH - there's only enough players on the planet to make ONE league interesting, otherwise we get watered-down "D-league" games on the NBA level... Yay!)

Well, first of all nobody has ditched. They only said they'd leave if someone offered them stupid money.

Secondly there's a big difference between showing them loyalty and calling them money grubbing c*ck suckers.

As Flaco pointed out, you have no problem supporting a team that stars an American using a loophole to compete against his country. It seems inconsistent and it leads me to believe that there's a deeper issue here.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

It seems inconsistent and it leads me to believe that there's a deeper issue here.

Yes - my father touched my butthole with an American flag when I was child and now I hate America because of it...

(feels good to get that off my chest...)

GO GERMANY!

u2sarajevo · 08-14-2008, 11:56 AM

I blame this confrontation on vBookie taking away your hard earned v-bucks.

And..... Go USA!!!!

dirno2000 · 08-14-2008, 11:56 AM

Another thing to like about this team: they have two major contributors that were playing high school ball here a few years ago. So not only do they represent the U.S.A. they represent the metroplex.

Murphy3 · 08-14-2008, 12:07 PM

...He doesn't represent my metroplex.

Flacolaco · 08-14-2008, 12:09 PM

What on Earth is wrong with Deron Williams?

dirno2000 · 08-14-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

What on Earth is wrong with Deron Williams?

Or Chris Bosh?

Murphy3 · 08-14-2008, 12:30 PM

Actually, nothing.... they're not the reasons as to why I wish for failure for the team that was chosen to represent the US

nikeball · 08-14-2008, 12:46 PM

I am actually rooting for the guys who gave a 3 year commitment and an summer of rest, being with their families, and partying. They are doing it to play and represent their country. Carmelo Anthony webcams and skypes with his toddler son, who is in America.

Who would you want to play for USA? Who are the "good guys" you want to root for? Garnett? Duncan? Tmac? They and many other All-Stars and MVPs turned down a chance to represent their country because of their own selfish reasons. I'd rather root for someone who would rather be at the games than someone who doesn't. For the guys who are on the team, they came because they wanted to bring the glory back to the US of A.

Murphy3 · 08-14-2008, 12:47 PM

Good try..but nope.

92bDad · 08-14-2008, 12:50 PM

For the most part, the Olympics are about National Pride.

However, some teams or sports or situation cross the line.

In my eyes those players playing for us represent the NBA and to me the NBA represents the WWF of Team sports.

Yes, I am a BITTER Mavs fan...these players are a product of the Hype and seeing them win only re-enforces their arrogance.

As such, in this sport I am rooting for other countries and simply rooting for some good games to watch.

As for Patriotism...my father is American Born and Bread...Career Military. My Mother is French born and bread. I love both nations equally, however I am very critical about French Politics...this does not Stop me from rooting for French Teams.

I am an American-French Patriot...I served Honorably in the U.S. Army and I have learned that I am American first, but I live in a bigger world than America. As such, I can root for other countries sports teams...that's what being a fan is all about.

Not liking our Mens Basketball team has nothing to do with Patriotism...I simply don't like the guys on that team, and I am certain it has everything to do with the NBA and Stern.

On another similar note...what happened to that U.S. Woman basketball player who didn't get invited to Team USA due to some rift with someone...so now she is playing for Team Russia. Can you fault a player for chasing an opportunity after she tried to the U.S. route and was told no thank you?

What about ole Shawn Bradley...didn't he play for Germany at one point?

We live in a global world and thus National Teams don't quite mean what they used to.

By the way, I will have a hard time rooting for Spain...I wish both USA and Spain would lose...and I was born in Zaragosa, Spain. I think I have a dislike for Pau Gasol.

u2sarajevo · 08-14-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

For the most part, the Olympics are about National Pride.

However, some teams or sports or situation cross the line.

In my eyes those players playing for us represent the NBA and to me the NBA represents the WWF of Team sports.

Yes, I am a BITTER Mavs fan...these players are a product of the Hype and seeing them win only re-enforces their arrogance.

As such, in this sport I am rooting for other countries and simply rooting for some good games to watch.

As for Patriotism...my father is American Born and Bread...Career Military. My Mother is French born and bread. I love both nations equally, however I am very critical about French Politics...this does not Stop me from rooting for French Teams.

I am an American-French Patriot...I served Honorably in the U.S. Army and I have learned that I am American first, but I live in a bigger world than America. As such, I can root for other countries sports teams...that's what being a fan is all about.

Not liking our Mens Basketball team has nothing to do with Patriotism...I simply don't like the guys on that team, and I am certain it has everything to do with the NBA and Stern.

On another similar note...what happened to that U.S. Woman basketball player who didn't get invited to Team USA due to some rift with someone...so now she is playing for Team Russia. Can you fault a player for chasing an opportunity after she tried to the U.S. route and was told no thank you?

What about ole Shawn Bradley...didn't he play for Germany at one point?

We live in a global world and thus National Teams don't quite mean what they used to.

By the way, I will have a hard time rooting for Spain...I wish both USA and Spain would lose...and I was born in Zaragosa, Spain. I think I have a dislike for Pau Gasol.

I think I just figured out your problem.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

I think I just figured out your problem.

Awww, don't hate - that was easily his best post ever... Not because I agree, but because it was heartfelt & honest with no bitter words or shock value (like that Underdog guy...)

Seriously - props to 92bDad!

(can you really razz a "Franco-Spaniard" who would put his life on the line to defend this country?)

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 01:10 PM

To add on to Nikeball's point, I actually find something very redeeming about our multi-million dollar athletes being willing to give their time for a complete no-win situation. If they win, they're supposed to. If they lose, it's another big story.

Potential NBA players don't necessarily grow up dreaming abou the Olympics, like so many other Olympic athletes do. For them to put in the effort for this is admirable in my mind.

So I will support them.

dirno2000 · 08-14-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

these players are a product of the Hype and seeing them win only re-enforces their arrogance.

If you watched them dismantle a very good Greek team then you know it's more than just hype. They can play a little.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

To add on to Nikeball's point, I actually find something very redeeming about our multi-million dollar athletes being willing to give their time for a complete no-win situation. If they win, they're supposed to. If they lose, it's another big story.

Potential NBA players don't necessarily grow up dreaming abou the Olympics, like so many other Olympic athletes do. For them to put in the effort for this is admirable in my mind.

So I will support them.

Good point - props to Team USA for stepping out of their skin for a couple weeks to live like Dirk does every day of his life...

(but I'm still rooting for the guy who comes by the Olympic Attitude naturally...)

GO GERMANY!

Murphy3 · 08-14-2008, 01:19 PM

They're only there to get some foreign ass..

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

They're only there to get some foreign ass..

Thanks for an excuse to re-post this pic...

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Good point - props to Team USA for stepping out of their skin for a couple weeks to live like Dirk does every day of his life...

(but I'm still rooting for the guy who comes by the Olympic Attitude naturally...)

GO GERMANY!

Well, first of all, I'd like to know who you're talking about, specifically. Lebron's been on the team and been doing all of the work from the moment he was asked. A large number of the guys on Team USA are considered genuinely good guys. Outside of Kobe, DWade and Boozer, I can't really come up with anyone I have any kind of problem with on a personal level.

Second, like it or not, our nation doesn't look at international competition the same as other nations do. It's just not the same in our culture. A perfect example would be the angst you have directed at the members of team USA. Do you have an even higher level of angst for the likes of Josh Howard and Tim Duncan, who were asked to at least try out for the team and declined?

Third, Dirk has said several times that this is probably his last event as part of the German national team, because he wants to not wear himself down as he gets older. Does this make JKidd a better patriot than Dirk because he's still playing national ball at age 35? Are Germans justified in being angry at Dirk for taking himself out of the competition while he's still on top?

Flacolaco · 08-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Good point - props to Team USA for stepping out of their skin for a couple weeks to live like Dirk does every day of his life...

(but I'm still rooting for the guy who comes by the Olympic Attitude naturally...)

GO GERMANY!

By your logic earlier in this thread, about players going overseas to play, Dirk is a no good son of a b*tch.

So which one is it?

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

By your logic earlier in this thread, about players going overseas to play, Dirk is a no good son of a b*tch.

So which one is it?

As far as I was concerned, ditching the best basketball league on the planet was the issue, not playing overseas... It just so happens that said league is here in the States - I'd support it equally if it was in Germany or China (if they could put together as good a product as we have - although we're obviously slipping...)

Flacolaco · 08-14-2008, 01:58 PM

So just to come full circle and sum up...just to see if I understand everything you've said here....you don't support your country's basketball team, in the Olympics, because a couple of the players on it may consider leaving a particular basketball league to play for a different league that would pay them more money?

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 01:58 PM

So it's not leaving the country, it's leaving your favorite league. Let's just be clear here.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, first of all, I'd like to know who you're talking about, specifically. Lebron's been on the team and been doing all of the work from the moment he was asked. A large number of the guys on Team USA are considered genuinely good guys. Outside of Kobe, DWade and Boozer, I can't really come up with anyone I have any kind of problem with on a personal level.

Second, like it or not, our nation doesn't look at international competition the same as other nations do. It's just not the same in our culture. A perfect example would be the angst you have directed at the members of team USA. Do you have an even higher level of angst for the likes of Josh Howard and Tim Duncan, who were asked to at least try out for the team and declined?

Third, Dirk has said several times that this is probably his last event as part of the German national team, because he wants to not wear himself down as he gets older. Does this make JKidd a better patriot than Dirk because he's still playing national ball at age 35? Are Germans justified in being angry at Dirk for taking himself out of the competition while he's still on top?

1. A couple bad apples spoils the whole bunch (especially when I have options like Dirk to root for - no need to settle for a lesser evil just because of geographical connection...)

2. Whether or not players turned down an invite to play with Team USA is irrelevant, because like most Americans, I don't care about international play either... It's not USA vs Germany to me - it's Kobe/Wade vs Dirk/Kaman (and I know who I like better)... Personally, I'm not as interested in the corporate-sponsored circle jerk known as the Olympics as I am just watching some good, ol' basketball...

3. You'll have to take that up with the Germans - all I care about is watching Dirk do his thing... Like I said - I'm not as interested in nationalism as I am watching some basketball (I tend to root for the people I like best and I HATE Kobe & Wade - simple enough?)

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So it's not leaving the country, it's leaving your favorite league. Let's just be clear here.

Yep - and they're doing it for nothing other than money...

(hey, I get pissed when players leave my favorite team for more cash too - this is no different... I haven't denied for a moment that my motives are completely selfish...)

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

So just to come full circle and sum up...just to see if I understand everything you've said here....you don't support your country's basketball team, in the Olympics, because a couple of the players on it may consider leaving a particular basketball league to play for a different league that would pay them more money?

Yes - because that's a pretty rotten attitude for an idealist like myself to root for (especially when these guys are pretending to be patriotic when all they care about is money...)

Flacolaco · 08-14-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

I don't care about international play

Thank you, that's all we needed to know.

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 02:11 PM

Yup, simple enough. I'll leave it at that.

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yes - because that's a pretty rotten attitude for an idealist like myself to root for (especially when these guys are pretending to be patriotic when all they care about is money...)

Why are they there risking injury if all they care about is money?

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep - and they're doing it for nothing other than money...

(hey, I get pissed when players leave my favorite team for more cash too - this is no different... I haven't denied for a moment that my motives are completely selfish...)

If Dirk ever leaves the Mavs, wouldn't you root for whatever team he is on, and abandon all the other bad apples on the Mavs? After all, your connection to the Mavs is nothing more than a "geographical connection".

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Why are they there risking injury if all they care about is money?

Maybe they're auditioning for their future employers?

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Maybe they're auditioning for their future employers?

I didn't realize China was paying big money for NBA players these days.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I didn't realize China was paying big money for NBA players these days.

I didn't realize it was the "China vs USA Olympics" - I guess I assumed there would be high-ranking basketball officials, coaches, and CEOs from all over the planet at these games...

u2sarajevo · 08-14-2008, 02:30 PM

Ahhhhh... so they have been waiting 4 years for Olympic games to scout because the 82 + games for the season aren't enough?

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Ahhhhh... so they have been waiting 4 years for Olympic games to scout because the 82 + games for the season aren't enough?

Not every player worth recruiting at the Olympics plays for the NBA (especially when the desired result is two watered-down leagues, rather than one strong one...)

jthig32 · 08-14-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I didn't realize it was the "China vs USA Olympics" - I guess I assumed there would be high-ranking basketball officials, coaches, and CEOs from all over the planet at these games...

You really think the owners of Olympikaous (or however it's spelled) are at the Olympics scouting these guys, as opposed to watching them play in an everyday environment of the NBA?

No, of course you don't.

Underdog · 08-14-2008, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You really think the owners of Olympikaous (or however it's spelled) are at the Olympics scouting these guys, as opposed to watching them play in an everyday environment of the NBA?

No, of course you don't.

Like I just said - not every pro basketball player plays for the NBA...

What - you don't think Donnie Nelson is "scouting" in the back of his mind while he's there?

(okay - now I can't tell when I'm joking or not either!)

EDIT: just noticed we're having this debate in a VBookie thread... I tells ya - Murph throws a chair & I'm ready to riot!

nikeball · 08-14-2008, 02:57 PM

Players leaving for Europe shows the state of our economy and the NBA. The NBA is a business, unless they step up to allow higher max contracts contracts.. players will bolt for Europe. I believe the owners of the European teams are taking a loss for signing NBA players but they are doing it for bettering their teams. I am not advocating a no-salary cap stance, because the major market teams would dominate like in baseball.

But you all have to look at it from the players perspective. Kobe can make max $10 million per year ($20/2 for tax) in the US where in Europe he can make $40-$50 million per year AFTER TAXES..plus a free house and car. Who here would not leave their top-tier job for a second tier job doing basically the same thing (probably less work too) except you would get paid 4x-5x as much?