Dirk is the problem with this team. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bathouse Bear · 12-05-2007, 11:17 PM

This team isn't built for succes with Dirk taking 12 shots a game and only scoring 15-20 points a game.

our team is made up role players and im tired of our "superstar" playing like a wuss.

right now he's the 3rd best player on this team.

mkat · 12-05-2007, 11:19 PM

i have a theory on that.

after last year's early collapse, i think avery doesn't trust him..hence him getting fewer minutes and less points. avery is trying to build this team to have multiple guys who make up for fewer minutes/points from dirk..hence Bass getting time, barea getting time, etc etc. he wants to make sure that if/when dirk doesn't perform, other guys have the ability to. that's my theory, anyway.

Silk Smoov · 12-05-2007, 11:21 PM

I call him the 4th best player. Howard, Jet, Harris, then Dirk!!!! I am not being too serious on that, but I feel that way too many times.

dude1394 · 12-05-2007, 11:23 PM

Well he's taking less shots/game that howard and only two more a game than jet so avery must think he's the third best at most.

lanslort · 12-05-2007, 11:23 PM

i guess avery johnson is building this team around josh howard

dude1394 · 12-05-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanslort

i guess avery johnson is building this team around josh howard

If so he'd better find another one, because one doesn't play in the second half. Doesn't defend worth a crap or play offense.

DavidDaMonkey · 12-05-2007, 11:28 PM

Gosh, I love these "Dirk is the problem", "I hate Avery", "What is up with Stack?" posts that always pop up after a loss. Its like being drunk. Can we try to sleep these things off and sober up first? If we still feel that way in the morning, post away.

Rick41 · 12-05-2007, 11:28 PM

dirk is being the biggest puss pop right now... drive in and attack, this bullsh!t of 15 ppg isnt going to cut it. I dont care how deep we are or how good josh is doing, dirk should still manage his 25-30 and 10 R per game.

and another thing that ticks me off is that josh decides to only play the 1st half... does he forget about the 3rd and 4th quarters? damn...

(frustrated)

Dtownsfinest · 12-05-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Gosh, I love these "Dirk is the problem", "I hate Avery", "What is up with Stack?" posts that always pop up after a loss. Its like being drunk. Can we try to sleep these things off and sober up first? If we still feel that way in the morning, post away.

Actually his post was propping Dirk more up than bashing him. Maybe i'm lost but it seems he's saying Dirk needs to play better in order for this team to have success. I agree. Dirk has been the 3rd or 4th best player on the team this season but in order for this team to win a championship he needs to be THE BEST.

dude1394 · 12-05-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

dirk is being the biggest puss pop right now... drive in and attack, this bullsh!t of 15 ppg isnt going to cut it. I dont care how deep we are or how good josh is doing, dirk should still manage his 25-30 and 10 R per game.

and another thing that ticks me off is that josh decides to only play the 1st half... does he forget about the 3rd and 4th quarters? damn...

(frustrated)

Damn that's good 30 points in 11 shots. That's about 9 3ptrs. Cool...

It does seem to becoming obvious that dirk needs to take more shots. He almost never seems to get into a rhythm anymore. EVER.

alby · 12-05-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

Gosh, I love these "Dirk is the problem", "I hate Avery", "What is up with Stack?" posts that always pop up after a loss. Its like being drunk. Can we try to sleep these things off and sober up first? If we still feel that way in the morning, post away.

I don't like it either, but it sure does make this board a little more intriguing.. It's been dead for many months now

Locked_Up_Tonight · 12-05-2007, 11:34 PM

2003-2004 all over again. Some are just burying their head in the sane.

Rick41 · 12-05-2007, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Damn that's good 30 points in 11 shots. That's about 9 3ptrs. Cool...

It does seem to becoming obvious that dirk needs to take more shots. He almost never seems to get into a rhythm anymore. EVER.

Misunderstood me... 25-30 points per game and 10 rebounds per game.

Bathouse Bear · 12-05-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Gosh, I love these "Dirk is the problem", "I hate Avery", "What is up with Stack?" posts that always pop up after a loss. Its like being drunk. Can we try to sleep these things off and sober up first? If we still feel that way in the morning, post away.

Ive been holding off on posting this., but Ive had this thought for a few weeks now.

Dirk is acting like he still plays with Steve Nash and Michael Finley (in his prime). I haven't seen him this consistently passive since the 1999-2000 season.

The reason we are 12-7 is that we are missing 8-12 points from Dirk every single night. Frankly im surprised when he scores more than 27 points in a game.

Quote:

2003-2004 all over again. Some are just burying their head in the sane.

Thats the way I feel to. A team that is bad on the road is a sign of mental weakness and the 03-04 was horrible on the road. Lost a ton of games against inferior competition.

I came to that conclusion last week when I was at the Bradley Center in Milwaukee to watch us play the Bucks. Our team was listless, played with little energy or passion and Dirk didn't ever step up and dominate.
I really see the value of home court advantage. i have never personally witnessed the mavs play that lethargic at American Airlines Center. A big reason is that the crowd would be all over the team if we felt they weren't giving their best effort.

Flacolaco · 12-06-2007, 12:13 AM

You people are cracking me up.

If they EVER get the defensive end fixed, you can start talking about how many shots a game dirk takes.

Defense is the key. It is the most important part of what is wrong right now.

Tokey41 · 12-06-2007, 12:14 AM

I think if Avery wants to mess around and play with the team he should do so when the games don't matter. When we play another elite team we should bring our A game and think of it as a test to see if what we DO have is enough to win. Tonight I fully expected to see the Mavs of last year... and the disappointment of not seeing Dirk embraced as our star was disheartening. We can only hope this is temporary, Dirk NEEDS to be the star on this team and get his shots. If Avery really has lost some trust in Dirk there is no way I can support him, thats just a terrible coaching job and a tragic misuse of your best player.

dude1394 · 12-06-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Misunderstood me... 25-30 points per game and 10 rebounds per game.

My point was that it's going to be tough when he only gets 11 shots a game.

Dtownsfinest · 12-06-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

You people are cracking me up.

If they EVER get the defensive end fixed, you can start talking about how many shots a game dirk takes.

Defense is the key. It is the most important part of what is wrong right now.

Defense has been the problem for the past 20 years it seems. I've come to the conclusion that this team doesn't have the personnel or the coaching to become a good defensive team. Average at best. Not to say we should become a run and gun play no defense team but if we're winning a championship its not going to be because of our defense.

purplefrog · 12-06-2007, 12:27 AM

Lack of intensity is the problem with this team.

kg_veteran · 12-06-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

i have a theory on that.

after last year's early collapse, i think avery doesn't trust him..hence him getting fewer minutes and less points. avery is trying to build this team to have multiple guys who make up for fewer minutes/points from dirk..hence Bass getting time, barea getting time, etc etc. he wants to make sure that if/when dirk doesn't perform, other guys have the ability to. that's my theory, anyway.

I agree.

dude1394 · 12-06-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

i have a theory on that.

after last year's early collapse, i think avery doesn't trust him..hence him getting fewer minutes and less points. avery is trying to build this team to have multiple guys who make up for fewer minutes/points from dirk..hence Bass getting time, barea getting time, etc etc. he wants to make sure that if/when dirk doesn't perform, other guys have the ability to. that's my theory, anyway.

That appears to be the case. I'm not COMPLETELY sure that it's a lack of trust in dirk as much as the acknowledgment that they HAVE to have more than dirk. Which is true.

But at this rate, he's going to lose dirk as well and he won't have shat.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-06-2007, 12:56 AM

I love me some "Dirk sucks because he is a superstar" logic.

twelli · 12-06-2007, 12:59 AM

I just hope that Dirk has decided to kind of cruise through the first half of the season, like Shaq does, to be fresh later on. If that is not the case, I fully expect some kind of turmoil happening with the team in the near future. I cannot imagine that Dirk is happy with the game plan right now, unless it's all part of a great master plan by Avery that everyone sticks to.

chumdawg · 12-06-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I love me some "Dirk sucks because he is a superstar" logic.

I think what you mean is: "Dirk is a superstar, so by definition he never sucks."

Right?

vashjan · 12-06-2007, 01:07 AM

Dirk has probably 5 good games this season out of 19. His assist is up though, so he is looking to pass more. But he still needs to take more than 11 shots per game. I think this team lacked an early offense mentality. You can see many times Dirk gets into position early in an offensive set asking for the ball but Devin/Jet/Howard do not pass him the ball at the first opportunity.

I think that is important because by doing that you would get the defense reacting early, since there is 90% chance the defense will collapse and double/triple team him, which he could pass and in return get a pass back for an easy bucket or some cutters or someone else gets to the bucket or a short jumper for a bucket.

Most teams with a superstar (Kobe/Duncan etc), they get the ball very early in the offensive set.

Question, does this team trust Dirk? and due to his passive nature..he is probably ok with it..again I am very confused by the state of this team now.

I will overreact in early mid Jan.

Dtownsfinest · 12-06-2007, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If so he'd better find another one, because one doesn't play in the second half. Doesn't defend worth a crap or play offense.

Yea Josh is a #2 option in this league. The perfect #2. You can't rely on him to put the team on his back due to how ineffective he is in the 2nd half of games. Building this team around Josh would be mistake Avery has ever made as coach.

ty · 12-06-2007, 01:24 AM

Dirk owns. Any questions?

mkat · 12-06-2007, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

Dirk owns. Any questions?

none. thank you.

if you look at our team compared to the spurs (which is what avery wants the mavs to be), he's got us looking a bit like them.

penetrating PG - Harris/Parker, howard is our ginobli, and damp/diop are our oberto/elson. who's our Duncan? well...it should be Dirk...but I think Avery wants bass to be that kinda player.

does it seem to anyone else that maybe Dirk and Bass can't coexist?

dude1394 · 12-06-2007, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

none. thank you.

if you look at our team compared to the spurs (which is what avery wants the mavs to be), he's got us looking a bit like them.

penetrating PG - Harris/Parker, howard is our ginobli, and damp/diop are our oberto/elson. who's our Duncan? well...it should be Dirk...but I think Avery wants bass to be that kinda player.

does it seem to anyone else that maybe Dirk and Bass can't coexist?

Well one of 'em is going to have to play center. If it's brandon, he's not very good at it. Avery may ask dirk to do it. He may have to in fact. Then I guess he can sub him in for diop, sheesh.

EDIT: Comparing Josh to Ginobbli right now is insulting Ginobbli. He's nowhere close right now.

alby · 12-06-2007, 01:34 AM

what about team defense?

what about three year in a row runner up defensive player of the year???

the truth of the matter is our perimeter defense sucks right now. it's never been a strength of ours... Nash/Finley to Terry/Griffin to Devin/Terry... if our defense from our guards continue, it's just not going to cut it. bottom line. I'm with flac, this year--the blame has to fall a lot on our defense.

shaw-xx · 12-06-2007, 01:35 AM

No, it's Avery, not Dirk.

mkat · 12-06-2007, 01:35 AM

bass is too small to play center it seems.

josh is our ginobli in the sense duncan is the main guy, ginobli is the second guy, etc etc...

i honestly don't think avery trusts dirk...maybe it goes both ways. i don't know.

Dtownsfinest · 12-06-2007, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

none. thank you.

if you look at our team compared to the spurs (which is what avery wants the mavs to be), he's got us looking a bit like them.

penetrating PG - Harris/Parker, howard is our ginobli, and damp/diop are our oberto/elson. who's our Duncan? well...it should be Dirk...but I think Avery wants bass to be that kinda player.

does it seem to anyone else that maybe Dirk and Bass can't coexist?

There's a problem with the above though. Ginobilli is 10x's the player Josh is at this point. If Josh could do what he does in the 1st half in the second than we'd have a comparison. But there's no comparison's at this point. Same goes for Harris and Parker. We want Harris to be Parker but Harris' development is no where to be found. I don't know if he's just a slow learner or what but the kid can't get off the bench or quit making stupid fouls in the 1st half. Tonight the Duncan/Dirk comparison is right on. Both didn't do anything worth a damn.

This Mavs team needs to figure out what they are. Are they a run and gun team? A defensive team? Offensive team? What? That's the first thing we need to figure out. I'm not sure Avery knows. I sure as hell don't.

LonghornDub · 12-06-2007, 02:36 AM

I think the team has many problems. I trust most of them will be fixed in due time.

But it really hurts to see Dirk playing like he is. I absolutely do not feel the same way watching him this year as I did before this past April. It's not just because of a few bad games against GS--Dirk has had bad games, in fact entire bad series before (see Houston 2005 playoffs).

The problem is, we're 19 games in now and I still have yet to watch Dirk shoot and feel like it was going in. Last year, I always thought it was going in. Always. Now, he's taking wide open 3 pointers and while the ball is in mid-air I'm almost wishing to myself that Jet had been the one shooting it instead of Dirk. Then my anxiety is justified when it misses--and usually it's not even reasonably close to going in.

I don't know guys. I really think the Mavs will be a much improved team by April and will be a force. But I miss the "security blanket" aspect that Dirk used to provide for this team. I don't feel it at all anymore.

alby · 12-06-2007, 02:50 AM

To rebuttle the OP's statement; Dirk is the problem with this team.

I think when you play Stackhouse 33 minutes and Hassell 16 seconds, there are some strategic problems that even Dirk can't fix.

nowhereman · 12-06-2007, 02:53 AM

this thread is the problem with this message board.

mavsfan1000 · 12-06-2007, 04:23 AM

Stackhouse is the problem with this team. Found this off dallasbasketball.com.

Quote:

And I know you think he sucks totally!

For all the players that avg. at lest 20 min/gm Stack has one of the worst FG % in the league.

Stack 24min 33.8%
Anthony Johnson 22min 33.3%
Smush Parker 20min 31.5%
Quentin Richardson 31min 31.3%
Larry Hughes 27min 29.3%

those are the bottom 5 in the NBA, notice anything about that list, most of those teams suck and all those players suck on offense, and they are all from the East except Stack.

That makes Stack approximately 196th of 200 shooters in the league with over 20 min/gm(didn't count all the players in the league avg. over 20 min/gm just estimated about 7/team)

Hitman · 12-06-2007, 06:15 AM

There are a few problems with this team, defense being one of them.

However, the biggest problem is Dirk. If Dirk were putting up 26 points a game like he should be, the Mavs would not be 12-7.

jthig32 · 12-06-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

You people are cracking me up.

If they EVER get the defensive end fixed, you can start talking about how many shots a game dirk takes.

Defense is the key. It is the most important part of what is wrong right now.

I think this is true.

However, Dirk's game is very unsettling right now.

Flacolaco · 12-06-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

There are a few problems with this team, defense being one of them.

However, the biggest problem is Dirk. If Dirk were putting up 26 points a game like he should be, the Mavs would not be 12-7.

Ok, let's watch what Carmelo and AI do to this team tonight. (Eat it for lunch in the paint all night long I expect). And you tell me later tonight if you still think a few more points here or there from the German instead of someone else would've made a difference or not.